Is the 350z weak?????

for some reason the 350z doesn't seem to get very good results from mods......there is a video of a twin turbo 350z with about 430whp vs. a slightly modded evo 8 with basically a filter and boost controller, which would give it only about 280-300whp. the funny thing is, the 350z barely pulls away from the evo 8.....that too, the evo 8 can fit four people!!! any other two seater with comparable weight like a corvette, supra, or a 911 turbo with 430whp would have RAPED both cars. can anyone explain why cars with similar weight and power figures have such better results?

also, does anybody know any 0-60 or quarter mile times for 350z's with around 600-650bhp?

hmmm the evo 8 is awd and turbo'd from factory...
its a 4 banger
the 350 is only rwd and n/a from factory which is a v6
the twin turbo set up ... take not the fact the driver might not be a good driver.. and if its auto or 6mt

if u watch the full video of the z and the evo, there are 3 different races......the first race is the one i am referring to where both cars seems to be shifting properly and the 350z only pulls a little bit on the evo 8. in the other races, the evo 8 misses second gear...twice in a row!!! so if driver skill were taken into consideration, it is the evo 8 driver that would probably be considered the worse driver, not the 350z.

to address the awd issue, even though the evo 8 pulls slightly at the start, they race all the way to 120, which should give the z plenty of time to pull ahead. a supra is rather heavy and doesn't have awd just like the 350z.....but with 430whp, a supra would leave an evo 8 in the dust from a 20-120 race.

also, there have been actual tests on drag strips where the greddy twin turbo z with about 400hp ran 0-60 in 4.7.......a z06 with 400hp can run about 4 flat.

don't get me wrong, i think the 350z is a great car all around. i just don't understand why cars with similar weight and power are able to out accelerate it. if someone knows a scientific or mechanical reason why this may be so, i'd really appreciate it if they could describe it to me

o, btw, both cars hane manual trannies

What's your point?
The Z is a so much better looking.
I would much rather have a Z than an EVO.
And you cant only base it on a quarter mile run, what about curves?

well i wasn't really talking about looks.....i personally think the 350z looks way better than the evo too. i'm just trying to figure out why its acceleration is not on par with cars having the same weight and power.

and btw, the evo 8 is pretty much designed as a track car, and so it would likely outhandle the z, not the other way around.

correction: it's designed to be a rally car, now packaged for street/track. but yes, AWD will give an advantage over the Z. I'd like to see that video where a "vette with 400 HP ran 0-60 in 4 secs flat. It seems highly improbable.

and 350Z is a sport tourer, not a true sports car.

first of all, a 4 second 0-60 is indeed possible with a corvette z06, although the launch would have to be perfect.......chevy themselves quote a 0-60 of 3.9. but even with a less than perfect launch, it can achieve a 4.2-4.4 second 0-60

and whether or not the 350z is considered a "true sports car", it's sporty enough to be compared to a supra or vette.......after all, they all have around the same weight, they're two seaters, and they handle very well on the track. if people can compare a bmw m5 to a c5 corvette, then there's no reason why the 350z shouldn't be compared to a vette also

if u watch the full video of the z and the evo, there are 3 different races......the first race is the one i am referring to where both cars seems to be shifting properly and the 350z only pulls a little bit on the evo 8. in the other races, the evo 8 misses second gear...twice in a row!!! so if driver skill were taken into consideration, it is the evo 8 driver that would probably be considered the worse driver, not the 350z.

to address the awd issue, even though the evo 8 pulls slightly at the start, they race all the way to 120, which should give the z plenty of time to pull ahead. a supra is rather heavy and doesn't have awd just like the 350z.....but with 430whp, a supra would leave an evo 8 in the dust from a 20-120 race.

also, there have been actual tests on drag strips where the greddy twin turbo z with about 400hp ran 0-60 in 4.7.......a z06 with 400hp can run about 4 flat.

don't get me wrong, i think the 350z is a great car all around. i just don't understand why cars with similar weight and power are able to out accelerate it. if someone knows a scientific or mechanical reason why this may be so, i'd really appreciate it if they could describe it to me


uh look at the powertrain of a 350Z compared to a Z06? I am talking about stocks of course. and Nissan certainly doesn't boast as much as they did when Z32 came out, an actual Corvette beater. in all aspect, it's a Sport Tourer.

and I believe you said flat 4, as in 4.0, not 4.3, right? because even Ferraris have hard time reaching flat 4 and below, with the exception of F50 and Enzo.

Vette is all out strip, you wouldn't wanna see how well it handles in the twisities against a Sti, would you?

I wouldn't see the 350Z car as being weak but it certainly does have a reputation for being luxurious. Especially when you compare it to the older Z cars, there is a difference in quality. For a 6-banger, 288 horses is good enough and will accelerate you on the road faster than other 6 cylinder cars out there.

But if Nissan stuck two more cylinders under the hood, than it would be a little more badass, the more power the better.

ummm, I beg to differ. Skylines and NSX engines are faster and stronger "6 bangers." Hell, you even get more power out of Z32TT's stock engine than 350Z, granted there's no TT for it yet.

look, chevy themselves claim a time of 3.9 0-60 for the z06 and although this may be near impossible to achieve, i have heard of a stock z06 hitting 4 seconds flat with a perfect launch technique......i realize that the norm for a good driver would be about 4.3-4.4 but i'm just saying that on rare occasions it may be possible to hit 4 or 4.1 seconds.

either way, the point is not about exactly how fast the z06 can do 0-60.....the point is that the z06 has relatively better acceleration times than a MODDED 350z. if you want proof, motor trend did actual tests using a twin turbo 350z (greddy quotes 340rwhp at 5.6psi) and a stock z06. the 350z achieved about 4.6-4.7 0-60 while the vette got 4.2-4.3.......also, the 350z trapped about 106 in the quarter while the z06 got about 116. so by the looks of this test, the 350z would need a considerable increase in power to equal the vette......say 400-450rwhp.

all i want to know is why other cars with similar weight seem to achieve better acceleration......the porsche 911 turbo weighs about 200lbs. more than a z06, and yet with a mere 10hp and ft-lb. advantage (at the crank), it can slightly out accelerate a z06. so why can't a modded 350z which is even lighter than a 911 turbo achieve quarter mile traps anywhere near the z06? that's all i wanna know. there are people talking about stis and handling around a track and how the 350z isn't a sports car, etc........none of that is relevant. don't think i'm trying to diss the 350z based on looks, handling, comfort, etc......i know its quite capable in those respects.........i'm only focussing on ONE aspect of the z and that is its acceleration compared to cars of similar weight and power

350Z - 3200-3300lbs

Z06 - 3130lbs @ V8 405HP stock

Not sure how efficient that Greddy Turbo kit or Z33 engine is, but other than these obvious differences, someone else might have to point out what other inadequecies are hidden in 350Z.

well, i realized that the 350z weighs more than the z06, though i'm not sure by exactly how much.....seems like it could be even 100-120 lbs heavier than a z06.....but even then, the 911 turbo and tt supra outweigh the 350z yet are still able to put down better acceleration times with roughly the same amount of power......could there be something with the transmission or gearing that could cause the 350z to perform this way?

ok with the 1st post, did u ever think the reason that the 350 might have been slower at the start is because as you said he had "430rwhp" if thats true he could have had trouble putting that down in a rwd on street tyres and at night when his intake is colder so the car is more powerful but the road is colder offering less grip. Anyway weak doesnt mean anything, u want to make sick power, get a GTR or a supra... 350z was made to be a good all round tourer with good balance and smooth power delivery. NA is better for winding tracks/roads because of the smooth power delivery wich is more predictable and inspires confidence in the driver to push the car to its limits.

i'm only focussing on ONE aspect of the z and that is its acceleration compared to cars of similar weight and power
umm similar weight and power? that puts it in the same ballpark as a GTR... but since in ur system torque or layout (rwd/awd) dont matter than the 350z really must be shit. ur an idiot.:disappoin isnt it good enough that even with stock conservative tuning a 3.5 V6 NA is pumpin out roughly 300hp? if vipers hade the same hp/litre the would make 650hp stock.... and a stock LS1 corvette should be making 488hp... now i dont know how much they are making, i really dont friggin car about american cars, but i bet they arebt making anywhere near that. and the only country who really likes ur cars is america itself...haha....what a stupid way to be patriotic :lol2:

well, i found the video again........and actually they initially start the roll from 40 so that the evo 8's awd doesn't give it an advantage.....they pull about evenly from the roll......also, i'd like to make a correction.....at first the power figure i had found for that particular z was 430whp, but after reading the motor trend test, i highly doubt it would be that much.....i think the source i got it from was wrong and that the z had more like 340-350whp

btw, when is said power, i was talking about hp and torque in general.....just so u know the turbo 350z used in motor trend's test puts down about 340 ft-lbs. to the wheel also, meaning its got about 400hp and 400 ft-lbs. at the crank

i mean maybe i'm missing something here but i'm just going by laws of physics......two objects of the same weight with the same force applied on them should accelerate equally, right? meaning that a 911 turbo with only a little bit more hp and torque than the 350z but weighing 100 or more pounds extra should have nearly equal if not worse times than the 350z......and yes, i realize the porsche's awd will give it an advantage off the line but if the 350z were to lose, it shouldn't lose that badly.....according to motor trend, the 350z would be about 10-11mph slower than a 911 turbo through the quarter mile.....i would think it should only lose out by about 4-5mph.....and if u want another example, a bmw m3, a 3400+lb 4 seater car with even more luxury than the 350z can trap 106 in quarter mile STOCK, that is with a mere 333hp and 262 ft-lbs.....even though the beemer'll take mid to low 13's to get there while the turbo z only needs high twelves, the trap speed still indicates that from a roll both cars may perform quite similarly......and don't start whining about how the 350z is really a touring car and all of that because the beemer is a friggin luxury 4 seater and yet it has superb acceleration

there's something amiss here: same weight to power ration doesn't always justify equal amount of propulsion delivery in the autoworld.

Not to mention, you're overlooking some of the things, Z06 is a V8 making stock 405 HP. While 911 Turbo is a Porsche. They're making at least what, a 415 HP with a flat 6 Turbocharged engine. Porsche are always renowned for their engineering, it is said that 2/3 every Porsches they released are still out there, running. And of course the high price tags.

And now asides from power and weight, there could be other trinkets of engineering that is Nissan holding back, if they were to compete with 911 Turbo, your current 350Z would be much more expensive. So even with the Gretty Turbo kit boosing its power, it still has the engineering inferiority that does not match the top-notch worksmanship of a Porsche. And while comparing with the Z06, much, much stronger engine concocted for raw power delivery. And I think factory turbocharged engines or regualar LS1s would deliver horsepower to the wheels much more efficiently and profusely than if you were to install and aftermarket turbo kit.

And since I know nothing of inner engineering of these cars, I won't make long statements. But these are the only logical differences that comes to mind.

Yes, comparing power to weight ratio should abide by the laws of physics. But again, what you're overlooking is the complexities hidden in cars, and all the engineering details. It's all about efficiency, getting most out of what you pay for. If Nissan were to deliver a 350Z up to par or outmatching the capabilities of 911 Turbo, then what do you think your regular Joes are going to purchase? And henceforth, that model of Porsche would become nothing but a vanity car, only wealthy kids would roll on it, with nothing better to do than waste money.

Now if we were talking about sportbikes, that power to weight issue would become a legitimite argument. Since all the sportbikes out there are competing with each other in the same league. And they're almost all the same, the difference being how much the rider can pull out of it. And with every passing year, lighter bikes with more power are becoming meaner and meaner. Engineering is almost the same top-notch quality for each brand of bikes, so the laws of physics there apply even more accurately.

Z Fanatic, you're absolutely right.....i figured there must be some sort of internal characteristic that would cause the 350z to perform the way it does.....the only thing is i didn't know what it was exactly so that's y i started this post to find out......do u think maybe the hp and torque curves themselves may have something to do with this? since its not a single turbo set up i wouldn't expect the curves to be very peaky, but maybe there is still enough variation in the curves to prevent the kind of acceleration the z06 and 911 turbo achieve......like u said, the z06 has the powerful v8 engine, which gives it lots of low end torque, and the 911 turbo has a very precisely engineered flat-6......since the 350z has neither of these characteristics and only has a bolt on aftermarket kit, perhaps its just the composition of its power curves that makes it perform that way.

once again though, i wanna make it clear to everyone that i'm in NO WAY dissing the 350z.....in fact, i think the twin turbo 350z or even the stock 350z is an excellent car for its price, taking into consideration other factors as well, such as looks, handling, driving fun, etc. also, the 350z is a relatively new car and so there has only been enough time for aftermarket companies to create relatively simple power upgrades.....but within a few years, i'm sure some of the kits offered for the 350z will be powerful enough to put a z06 or porsche to shame....

you might wanna ask these specific questions to Igor, the AF is getting 376whp. So they might be more inclined to know more about these "IF" questions.

As far as 350Z goes, competing with the Z06 and what not, we'll have to wait til Nissan releases a twin turbo. And Im sure with a turbo upgrade kit, you can give the "Vette run for its money. Asides from this, the States might also receive limited number of V35 Skyline GTR... that's gonna be some major whooop ass V8 burner! I wonder what the powerplant will be, 4.0+ V6 or straight V8.

yeah, i've also been wondering about the r35 skyline that supposed to come out in 2007 or so. i'm curious to see what kind of engine and power figures they'll give it.....i think it all depends on the market the skyline will be competing in. i doubt it'll be on par with vettes and the like because by 2007, the z06 will likely be upgraded to about 500hp, 911 turbo to 450-475hp, and the 360 modena replacement will also be about 500hp......and since the skyline is supposed to be a four seater, it would have to have like 600hp to compete on this level. however, i think the skyline will be a good competitor with the bmw m5, audi rs6, and benz e55 amg.....even the previous generation skyline wasn't meant to take on z06s and 911 turbos in stock form, so i'm not really expecting the new one to compete on that level either......anyways, i personally hope they use a v6tt or i6tt, mainly because i think it would sound a lot better than a v8

according to the conceptual design and show models, it doesn't look like V35 will be 2+2. so if it's a 2 seater, less weight. Hopefully, it won't exceed 3200 lbs. Btw, I think Skylines or NSX will chew up the Z06 in the track. And any of these, moderately modded deserves a run against the 911 Turbo S.

If I were them, I'd lower the V35's center of gravity and make it sleeker and aerodynamic, like Z32 instead of Z33.

r35...... v35....... w35........ what ever...
know what the engine is.....

:bananasmi:flipa:

we don't know :wtf: the specific engine is for the new skyline gtr, since Nissan hasn't confirmed yet. if you know, why don't you share it with us genius?

its sposed 2 have 2... a V8 for americans because japan is scared of what the yanks will do to their good engine... and a VQ35DETT.... the engine the GTRs were u sing in JGTC in their last 3 years NOT the rb26

assuming it's a v6/I6, why a v6 for the japanese market? if US gets V8, does that mean a downgrade in handling?

btw, r35 does not refer to the engine but the fact that the model itself will be the r35 skyline gt-r, just as the previous generation was the r34. i had heard somewhere that the r35 may be a 4 seater coupe but i guess its too early to know for sure....if you look at any of the profile pics of the car it seems like there may be enough room to put some back seats, but then again, we don't know exactly how large the car will be in actual production......i do hope it'll only be a two-seater though......btw, here's a link to nissan's press release of the r35.....if all the stuff they say is accurate, then the r35'll be one helluva car!!

http://www.freshalloy.com/site/cars/nissan/skyline/r35/concept/home_pr.shtml

yes I know. unfortunately, I am not digging the 350Z look.

neither am i, but if the performance is truly stellar, i may be able to excuse the looks

if u watch the full video of the z and the evo, there are 3 different races......the first race is the one i am referring to where both cars seems to be shifting properly and the 350z only pulls a little bit on the evo 8. in the other races, the evo 8 misses second gear...twice in a row!!! so if driver skill were taken into consideration, it is the evo 8 driver that would probably be considered the worse driver, not the 350z.

to address the awd issue, even though the evo 8 pulls slightly at the start, they race all the way to 120, which should give the z plenty of time to pull ahead. a supra is rather heavy and doesn't have awd just like the 350z.....but with 430whp, a supra would leave an evo 8 in the dust from a 20-120 race.

also, there have been actual tests on drag strips where the greddy twin turbo z with about 400hp ran 0-60 in 4.7.......a z06 with 400hp can run about 4 flat.

don't get me wrong, i think the 350z is a great car all around. i just don't understand why cars with similar weight and power are able to out accelerate it. if someone knows a scientific or mechanical reason why this may be so, i'd really appreciate it if they could describe it to me



Not to go too far back (post wise) but recently I'd seen a posted time in Motor Trend for the Evo VIII (stock). The 0-60 was 4.6 and 4.4 for the RS. Now seeing as how it's that fast stock...it's not that surprising that the Z didnt just eat it up.

hmmm, interesting.....i didn't know motor trend achieved a 4.6.....most of the 0-60s i've seen for the evo 8 are about 4.8-5.0....in fact, both car and driver (5.4) road and track (5.3) achieved significantly lower tims than motor trend.....also, the evo in the race had relatively light mods....i believe it was a new filter, test pipe, and boost controller.....and the two cars punched it from a roll, not a stop, meaning that even if the evo 8 had a very fast 0-60, its awd advantage would be partially negated in this race......but like i was saying before, the issue probably comes down to internal characteristics like power delivery, gearing, etc.

I know this thread is old, but i just want to clarify some things.. if lets say a greddy 350z TT is making 450hp (lets say 380rwhp at around 7psi), it still only accelerates 0-60 in about 4.6, while a same rwhp corvette c6 around 360-370rwhp will do that in 4.2.

So the V-8 has better low end torque, V-6 TT has some turbo lag. But when you look at 1/4 mile drag race, the corvette still manages to pull away with around 12.7, and 350z 12,9.

Now that the new VQ37VHR series engine has been released for the 370z and the g37 (output at ~330hp /~270 ft/lb). The 335i which has a tad less horsepower is still able to outrun a g37, even though both cars are equal in weight.

Even though the g37 puts more to the ground than the 335i, it is a bit slower. What accounts for this, the torque curve? It can't be the transmission right cause we're comparing rwhp, hp lost is already accounted for.

first thing you have to consider is that the older 350Z's 2003-2004 only made about 280hp at the crank which means they only put down about 230-240whp. Greddy makes good stuff but their turbo kit is comprised of mitsubishi's crap. They're not ball bearing turbos. So if you combine an 03-04 350Z with stock internals and that turbo kit , you will not get near 400whp unless you run more than 8psi of boost which is not recommended with that setup.

Anyways to put all the aftermarket crap aside, the 350's have increased in power every so couple of years , the last generation 07-08 make 306hp at the crank and about 270whp which is about the same as a stock EvoX and 09 STI .

But there are 470+whp 07-08 Z's with stock internals running garret twin turbo setups.

If there was no aftermarket the 07+ Z's would run head to head with EvoX's. They both run about the same in the 0-60 .

Yes once you begin to get into aftermarket it is easier to get more power faster in an EVO or ANY factory turbo charged car than the Z because the EVO is already turbo charged. No need to spend 6k on a turbo kit + installation costs if you can't DIY and 6k doesnt include a motor build if you want to do more than 8psi . Just upgrading the exhaust , increase in boost and Tune would get atleast 80+whp in an evo. Ofcourse you can do the same in an 07-08 Z with just an exhaust and 100shot of nitrous plus a Tune but you will be limited in potential with a nitrous kit after that.

Only problem with the Evo is looks IMHO. It doesnt look like a sports car but rather something plain that a 16yr old took and slaped on a giant spoiler to. The Z doesnt have that ability to quickly gain in power unless with a nitrous kit but it has looks that snag chicks and has the potential there for when you're financially ready to let out.

I know this didnt answer you're original question but your original question had too many variables asking about how come a modified supra accelerates faster than a modifed 350Z , how the heck would anyone know? we didn't build any of those cars you are referring to from videos.