Damn Ferrari

I'll never get a BAR Mugen Honda F1 model at this rate.

Damn damn damn.

That and Sato needs to stop burning up his engines.

Damn.

Woo...random post alert.....lol

I have seen resin kits of the BAR, sometimes you have to go to the resin to find the car you want.

Resin is expensive.

Damn.

Neh neh
Neh neh neh! :p LOL!

Hope tamiya makes F2004.

I'll never get a BAR Mugen Honda F1 model at this rate.

Damn damn damn.

That and Sato needs to stop burning up his engines.

Damn.

You CAN'T be serious. Mugen I don't know about, but personaly, I'd be shocked if the next 1/20 F1 kit that Tamiya releases isn't the BAR Honda 006. Another Ferrari? - not too likely, in that exept for the handfull of rabid Tifosi (ahem, ALES!), the world really is tired of Ferrari after Ferrari. BAR is the most interesting thing happening on the grid this year- neck in neck with Renault for second, and Button is the highest scoring non-Ferrari driver. (Ok, Renault's launch control is pretty interesting, but does anyone remember that Fernando whathisname guy that everyone was talking about last year, who's been rather upstaged by his teammate who's name also eludes me?) We'll certainly not have a new McLaren or Williams! Lets be honest- Tamiya releases kits for the Japanese market above all else- that's where most model kits are consumed. So we have a scrappy newish team clawing their way to second or third, with a Honda engine, and even a Japanese driver. This kit will sell like crazy in Japan, and pretty well in the UK, also. There's no other option for an F1 kit this year!

That and Sato needs to stop burning up his engines.

Damn.

I've heard that in japan a lot of people write to honda complaining they don't give a good enough engine to sato !
You could try a conversion from an existing f1 kit, maybe a ferrari from a couple of years, or a new sauber :lol2:

I would quite like it if Tamiya made a BAR (which in fact is almost a certainty from what I understand) and/or this year's Renault (that thing has very interesting lines, lovely car). And the last Ferrari F1 car that Tamiya made is F2001, so where does this "Ferrari after Ferrari" come from? :(

I would love to see a 2004 BMW Williams F1 FW26 from Tamiya. It looks so distinctive. :)

I would love to see a 2004 BMW Williams F1 FW26 from Tamiya. It looks so distinctive. :)

Pity it is such a dud on the track

And the last Ferrari F1 car that Tamiya made is F2001, so where does this "Ferrari after Ferrari" come from? :(

Well, if you were to line up an F2002, F2003GA, and F2004, could anyone (non Tifosi) tell which is which? Even the sponsorship has stayed the same. Uh, the F2003GA is the on with the shark gills on it, right? Really, none of these cars stand out anymore- it's all just one red blur. Does the world really need another reminder of just how boring another championship for Schumi is? (Ok, last year was fairly exciting- but it hardly justifies a model of the F2003GA because it was the Ferrari that Schumi came closest to being beaten in, now does it?) I might expect to see a model of the last Ferrari he drives in F1 (whenever that will be)- but until then, does anyone really care about having the car he won his fifth, or sixth, or seventh (don't want to think about eighth) world title in?

Some do, but that's beyond the point. Everything you just said still doesn't mean that Tamiya produce "Ferrari after Ferrari".

Neh neh
Neh neh neh! :p LOL!

Hope tamiya makes F2004.

same here....it is economic efficency because there is a "blue Ferrari". So If there make a F2004, may able to save some parts for Sauber C23. :smile:

The Sauber C23 is a F2003 so they could make the F2003 and offer it in 2 liveries.....

Mugen I don't know about

Mugen are part of the Honda group, I guess the best description would be saying it's their performance engine side.

Some do, but that's beyond the point. Everything you just said still doesn't mean that Tamiya produce "Ferrari after Ferrari".

No, true, they sensibly stopped after producing to beatiful, but barely distinguishable kits, the F2000 & F2001.

Mugen are part of the Honda group, I guess the best description would be saying it's their performance engine side.

Yeah, similar to BMW M. However, though Mugen used to produce F1 powerplants, I believe they're not associated with BAR F1 Honda engines.

Yeah, similar to BMW M. However, though Mugen used to produce F1 powerplants, I believe they're not associated with BAR F1 Honda engines.

Did I say they were associated with the BAR Honda engine?
You said you didn't know of them, I assumed you didn't meant you didn't know who they were.

My humble apologies for trying to be helpful.

Did I say they were associated with the BAR Honda engine?
You said you didn't know of them, I assumed you didn't meant you didn't know who they were.

My humble apologies for trying to be helpful.

Certainly no need to apoligize. I did not mean to imply that I was unaware of Mugen, only that the BAR 006 (or any other BAR) is not a Mugen Honda production, and therefore if Tamiya made a BAR 006, it still wouldn't be a Mugen Honda F1 model.

Yeah, similar to BMW M. However, though Mugen used to produce F1 powerplants, I believe they're not associated with BAR F1 Honda engines.

They're not? Oh... well I plead ignorance here. My bad. But that sure does look like a Mugen stripe down the side of the car?

http://www.barf1.com/media/images/full_colour/1256_640x480.jpg

And I never said it was Ferrari after Ferrari. But the only non-Ferrari I've seen Tamiya make in 3 or so years was the Williams.... And I figured next would be Renault since they're putting on a good show. And I just want a modern Honda to chill with my RA272.

If you're talking about the black, beige, and red stripe, that's the BAR team livery. Show me where it says "Mugen" on the car. Mugen has nothing to do with F1. Where did you get that idea?

Sato's 3rd in USA GP is more than enough for Tamiya to justify the release of the BAR006. In the last few years, Japanese GP's been losing people, news about F1 doens't pop up on the front page of Yahoo, and the TV rating was steadily going down. But, Sato's turning the situation around. He's faster than any other Japanese drivers in the past, and judging from the fact that Tamiya has released a rather sattle item like Katayama's Tyrrell, BAR006 seems much more attractive (and reasonable business-wise).

I've got all the Screen savers and Desktop's images from HondaF1.com and Barf1.com, and I never saw Mugen in none of the sites ,the screen savers or the desktops images; so, what make you think that Mugen has something to be with BAR-HONDA team?
Sorry for the english

I don't know, perhaps because those are also the Mugen colors?

http://www.monsterdekals.com/image/mugen-eg%20transhow02.jpg

http://popup.tok2.com/home/globeyh/sports/img/gt30.jpg

Oh yeah, here too. (http://www.mugen-power.com/top.html)

So what made me think that? I don't know....?

I hate to be the one to point this out, but the red/gold/black are also the colors of Lucky Strike which are the main advertising sponsor of BAR Honda.

http://perival.com/delillo/lucky_strike.jpeg

http://f.1.free.fr/voitures/bar-honda.jpg

Perhaps there is just a coincidence in the fact that Lucky Strike and Mugen use the same colors?

Mugen used to be in F1, supplying powerplants to teams like Jordan and Prost- they just no longer are. BAR has never been associated with Mugen, but given Mugen's history in F1, it would have been entirely reasonable to assume it was this division of Honda that has been supplying engines for BAR. Again, like BMW M. The M division used to make F1 powerplants, and would today if BMW had an actual factory team, however M is not associated with BMW Williams F1. If you weren't particularly familiar with the current Williams team, it would be easy to mistake that M was involved (current performance of the Williams team not withstanding!).

I think that the Lucky Strike colors and Mugen colors are merely a coincidence. Lucky Strike's (and BAR's) colors are actually black, olive drab green (not gold), and red. Lucky Strike has been using that color scheme since long, long before their involvement in motorsports.

I realize, now, that it's coincidence, but it was easy to assume because of the things MPWR mentioned. Again, I claim ignorance. But guys, there's no need to jump my case for it.

I have heard that T. Sato isn't a BAR's driver, He is an Honda's driver, and that is why he has broken 5 engines, because Honda use his car as a test car for parts that are in development currently.
Anyone knows if that's true?

That doesn't sounds so believable since any team would expect to get the highest point possible, and that requires two drivers to finish at least.

Mugen's involvement in the current (meaning post McLaren-Honda) Honda F1 activity is true. The BAR-Honda started as BAR-Mugen in disguise with a fund coming from Mugen's parent company Honda, but at some point (few years ago, I forgot when), Honda stepped in for various reasons (budget, marketing, training of engineers, morale boost for the workers etc.), and now it's fully Honda.

"Anyone knows if that's true?"

It's not. This reminds me of back when Prost would claim Senna's car had a better engine...

Thanx!!!

It's not.

How can you know? Agreed it does seem unlikely, especially given Sato’s performances of late but new components are being tested all the time. Earlier on in the season at a race or two it may have indeed been the case.

This reminds me of back when Prost would claim Senna's car had a better engine...

You grossly simplify and misrepresent what Prost said about engines. He mostly never said they had different engines, but the same, with mappings that favoured Senna's driving style. Except for rare occasions like the French GP where Honda gave Prost his preferred settings and he blitzed the field, his team mate included...

Mugen are a tuning house associated (owned?) with Honda. Much like Renault and Mecachrome. Mugen took over the development of Honda F1 engines shortly before and following Honda's official withdrawal from F1. They supplied customer (as in paid for) engines to Tyrrell, Footwork, Lotus, Ligier/Prost and finally Jordan. The BAR partnership has always been a fully Honda works effort, with no connection to previous Honda/Mugen engines.

Oh and another thing. Three of Tamiya's last five F1 kits have been Ferraris, including back to back F2000 and F2001 :screwy: Given the rarity of the McLaren MP4/13 kit it may as well be three out of four.

IMHO Tamiya really missed the boat with the Williams FW24 too. The FW23 or 25 would have been much more interesting in terms of their relative success. This year's FW26 even because of the unusual nose. Almost as bad when they gave us two versions of the Lotus 78, skipping the immortal and thoroughly gorgeous Type 79 :(

Being a Schumy fan, I would love for them to release the 2004 Ferrari. Not only does it keep my wallet that much heavier as I would not have to resort to a Studio 27 kit, but Tamiya's quality is simply just the best.

However, if there was a new F1 kit to be released that is not a Prancing Horse, I would definitely settle for a BAR.

What I'd like to see (but will never happen) is a Jag. Either a Johnny Herbert R1 or a Webber ride from this or last year. Sure the cars are all dogs but the livery is one of the best out there.

Being a Schumy fan, I would love for them to release the 2004 Ferrari. Not only does it keep my wallet that much heavier as I would not have to resort to a Studio 27 kit, but Tamiya's quality is simply just the best.

However, if there was a new F1 kit to be released that is not a Prancing Horse, I would definitely settle for a BAR.

True, I am waiting Ferrari F1 from Tamiya for many years. Although Studio27 produces almost a complete line of Ferrari F1, but they are too expensive. :banghead:

Just for the record, since it's something I do know and it's been sorta hedged in this thread - Honda and Mugen have no active partnership. Honda does not provide funding or engines for Mugen and Mugen does not provide performance parts for Honda factories (though, I think you can get Mugen parts as a dealer option is some parts of the world?) However, Mugen and Honda are owned by brothers, the sons of Mr. Honda himself, and Mugen works exclusively with Honda stuff.

Hope that helps, and that I can shed some light on the relation between the two.

Mugen was started by the son of the late Soichiro Honda, the founder of Honda. Soichiro didn't want his son to succeed the company because family company has a risk of failure. But Mugen maintained close relationship with Honda. Then, Honda became the parent company of Mugen in 1993. On January 1st 2004, Honda established a company called M-TEC, and now M-TEC is the owner of the Mugen brand.

I'm retarded.

Damn.

I'd love for Tamiya's next F1 kit to be a Ferrari, just not this year's Ferrari.

C'mon, get those tool cutters to work on a 126C2 or a 156 "Sharknose" or even a 555 Supersqualo. C'mon guys, you did that gorgeous Lotus 25, and the equally lovely Honda RA22C, now let's see you release a Sharknose, and a Gurney Eagle-Westlake, and a BRM, and a Repco Brabham, and my personal favorite vintage F1 car that never quite made it big, the Scarab Offenhauser.

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/large/644-1.jpg

I would kill for a good kit of the Scarab Offenhauser. I would 'effin kill the pope with his own staff for a good kit of the Scarab Offenhauser.

what is the "bar" you guys are talking about?

what is the "bar" you guys are talking about?

B.A.R. (British american Racing) www.barf1.com

You should know that if you are a bit into F1 :p

You know, there is other car than Ferrari in F1 :lol:

what is the "bar" you guys are talking about?

Really? :eek7:

BAR is the acronym for British American Racing, one of ten current Formula One racing teams. It's engine supplier is Honda (but not Mugen, as we've hashed out here). The team's drivers are Jenson Button and Takuma Sato.

i had the privilege of driving a F355 F-1 paddle shift. it was incredible.

-----read about it herr-----

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/500923/3

How can you know? Agreed it does seem unlikely, especially given Sato’s performances of late but new components are being tested all the time. Earlier on in the season at a race or two it may have indeed been the case.



You grossly simplify and misrepresent what Prost said about engines. He mostly never said they had different engines, but the same, with mappings that favoured Senna's driving style. Except for rare occasions like the French GP where Honda gave Prost his preferred settings and he blitzed the field, his team mate included...

Mugen are a tuning house associated (owned?) with Honda. Much like Renault and Mecachrome. Mugen took over the development of Honda F1 engines shortly before and following Honda's official withdrawal from F1. They supplied customer (as in paid for) engines to Tyrrell, Footwork, Lotus, Ligier/Prost and finally Jordan. The BAR partnership has always been a fully Honda works effort, with no connection to previous Honda/Mugen engines.

Whew...I was almost ready to step in and straighten them out and you did it for me!

You gotta love these "johnny-come-lately" F1 fans. So dedicated, so passionate and yet sometimes....so silly ;-)>

Bill

How can you know? Agreed it does seem unlikely, especially given Sato’s performances of late but new components are being tested all the time. Earlier on in the season at a race or two it may have indeed been the case.



You grossly simplify and misrepresent what Prost said about engines. He mostly never said they had different engines, but the same, with mappings that favoured Senna's driving style. Except for rare occasions like the French GP where Honda gave Prost his preferred settings and he blitzed the field, his team mate included...

Mugen are a tuning house associated (owned?) with Honda. Much like Renault and Mecachrome. Mugen took over the development of Honda F1 engines shortly before and following Honda's official withdrawal from F1. They supplied customer (as in paid for) engines to Tyrrell, Footwork, Lotus, Ligier/Prost and finally Jordan. The BAR partnership has always been a fully Honda works effort, with no connection to previous Honda/Mugen engines.

Whew...I was almost ready to step in and straighten them out and you did it for me!

You gotta love these "johnny-come-lately" F1 fans. So dedicated, so passionate and yet sometimes....so silly ;-)>

Bill