440HP from a 350?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7906627833

I saw this on ebay. This is one of the seller's most powerful engines and it comes from a 350. Too good to be true? Also, if it is true, how do you go about getting so much HP out of so little displacement (relative to the same seller's 454s that only slightly beat this motor) without forced induction?

Oh, and I guess this may be a stupid question... but which engines are "big blocks" and which are "small blocks". I know the 454 is a big block and a 283 is a small block, but where do the small blocks become big blocks. Is a 350 a small block?

440HP from a 350 is almost every day numbers. its not hard at all especaily sence it lookes like they did everyhting right and used what they should have. and if you thing 350ci is "so little displacement", dont ever look at the size of engines in most new cars, sutch as hondas and imports.

and you cant say just bcause an engine is a 454 its going to have more power than a 350, thats just not right.

the smallest big block is a 396. the bigest FACTORY engine is a 400. you can get bigger small blocks or smaller big blocks by stroking them. the CI doesnt have anything to do with wether its a big block or a small block. they are what the name implys, big blocks are bigger in size and weight and small blocks are smaller is size and weight.

The biggest factory engine is a 400? Not so. What do you call a Pontiac 455?

A Mopar 340 has put to shame many a big block. I like the sound of a 440 and everything, but a 340 will waste just about anything.

"But the LS6 has so much power!" Yeah I know, these are formidable engines, but a 340 will still put one down...

Back to topic, yes 440 horsepower is quite possible from a 350 Chevy, if you build it right, and supercharge it, I've seen even more...

humm, well we were talking about chevy engines so thats what i told him about. aside from that then sure.
and if your supercharg something you better get more than 440hp but anyways that had nothing to do with it cuz he said without forced induction.

also, you asked how he gets that much power. its mostly, in that case, the heads and cam.

so what would be better - a 350 with 440hp or a 454 with 440hp?

a 350. the 350 is goingto seem like a more wild engine probably. but auming they make the same power in the same place, RPM wise, i would take the 350. cuz it weighs less and parts for it are usualy cheeper incase you would need to buy anything later.

would it be cheaper to upgrade a stock 350 to reach that kind of power or buy the crate 350, and sell the stock 350?

umm, its depends. can you do the work yourself or would you be paying someone to do everything?
the price on the engine thats on ebay seems like a really good price. seeing as how the dart heads usualy run about a grand thats a third of the price of the engine. you might want to email the seller and as for a copy of the dyno sheet though. or atleast to find out what the torque was. it depends on how much you would want to cut corners. you could probably build a engine to make that much power for less but it might be without some of the extras. if you were going to duplicate that engine though i think it would take more than 3 grand so your probably better off just buying that one and selling your old one, especaily if your old one is a 2 bolt block.

How about those LT-1's? Those things have some power don't they?

what would it take to buy that engine and turn it into a 383 stroker? would there be a significant power increase?

umm probably i dunno, and im sure somone else would be able to guess better than me, but peobably like 50HP maybe. provididng thats the only change you make. but honestly, if i bought that engine i wouldnt do it. you already have a perfectly good engine making lots of power. and not to mention it would vild the warranty cuz i think they said it comes with one.
all you would have to do is get a crank out of a sbc 400 and have the main jernals turned down to the size of the 350's. thats like $200 usualy. and then have everything rebalanced. or you could but a crank that is already the right size and stuff btu you still need balancing and stuff. like i siad i would just leaving it as a 350. if you rebuild your old 350 then i would say defenetly go for it is you have the $$.

I have a question/statment 68chevelle, I was always told that the cut off for a small block is 395 and when you hit 396 i turns into a big block. So with this is mind CI would matter but also you are correct that a big block is bigger and heavier, and a small block is smaller and lighter. I say CI matter because you cant squezze 396 CI out of a small block you would blow the side of the block open boring it out. So CI do matter in determining wether it is a big block or a small block.

lol. no. sorry. what about a 400 then. thats a small block. your forgetting one small thing. the stroke. you can make a 454 small block. it has been done. there are two things the determin the CI. bore and stroke. you can have the same bore and just stoke it and then you have more CI. example. whats the difference between a 30 over 350 and a 383 that is made into a 383 with the crank. the crank is the only diff. its the crank out of a 400. it has a longer stroke. giving it more CI. if you want look at sights like chevy high performance and super chevy and look for stocked engines. i would give you the sights and pages spacificaly but i dont have time. i am leaving tomarrow and wont be back till next thuresday but im sure if you still need more explanation someone else will be more than willing to explane it. you might want to try the camaro forum if you need more help.

Yes i know and understand what both bore and stroke are, and i understand that you can both increase and decrease the CI by giving a smaller or larger stroke, so i see where youre coming from. That is one big ass stroke to get a 454 small block.

You could take a Pontiac 350 and push it out to a 400. You could also just get a big block Pontiac 400. Lots of people find that confusing, they think that just because it has lots of cubes, it must be a big block, but that is false.

May I interject? There are some inconsistencies and inaccuracies in this discussion that should be addressed. First, let me say, 68Chevelle has a clue! I mean by that, he has obviously studied this matter and is on the right track.
Many engine makers have both "big block" and "small block" engine families in their line. The difference between them, which determines which is which, is the physical size of the BLOCK. It has no bearing on the CID (cubic inch displacement). Only the bore and stroke have ANY bearing on the displacement.
What 68 said about the 400 being the largest "small block" (in the Chevy line) is true. DO NOT confuse this engine with the 400 big block found in mid-70s pickups. Also, the smallest big block is not a 396. It is a 366, and that's ONLY if we're talking Chevy. 366 is a "tall deck" big block for heavy duty trucks. Good engine. The 400 small block requires MASS amounts of work to the block to make it worthy of a high performance application. While they are quite powerful, they are "stretched" too far, and quite weak.
Ford has a miriad of blocks. You can call them big or small, but some are and some aren't. And a Pontiac 455 is neither a big block OR small block, it is a "Pontiac" (all the blocks of note are the same size, externally).
The 273, 318, 340 and 360 Dodge are all "small block" Dodges. BTW, Bleeddodge, 340s won't TOUCH big motors UNLESS the big motors are ill-prepared. I took money from MANY a MOPE guy who felt the same about their 340s "back in the day". My GTO was just a 400 Pontiac... never had a 340 come close. Today, one can get the components for a 360 Dodge to rival the performance of the 340, and still have SOME street manners. Build a 440 Dodge right, and not much can catch it under "fair" conditions.
Lastly, if a 350 Chevy and a 454 Chevy both make 440 horsepower, chances are, the 350 will make around 400 lb. ft. of torque. The 454 will make well over 500 lb. ft. The big block wins... NEVER send a boy to do a man's job!

Was your GTO a ram air car? Those things were quick, man...

Lastly, if a 350 Chevy and a 454 Chevy both make 440 horsepower, chances are, the 350 will make around 400 lb. ft. of torque. The 454 will make well over 500 lb. ft. The big block wins... NEVER send a boy to do a man's job!
Now, would the extra torque make up for the weight of the big block 454 over the small block 350... assume this engine was for a '67-'69 Camaro...

Ok, now for one more rookie question... When talking PHYSICAL volume (ie, how much space the engine will take up in the car) will a 454 Big Block and a 502 Big Block be the same size?

if this were me, i would go with the 350 to get 440hp, not too hard but also a lot more lightweight than the beast of a 454 and have the same horsepower. but thats just me :2cents:

The weight of the big block is MORE than offset by it's ability to make torque. There's an old "saying" in our business: "Horsepower sells engines, torque moves cars..." The biggest downside to the big block is the change in weight distribution, making a big block car "nose heavy". This is precisely why a '70 GTO can stomp a '70 SS 454 in the corners.
Yes, my '70 Judge was a Ram Air car (RA III). The RA IV cars were much quicker, though quite rare.
A 454 and 502 are identical from the outside. The difference between them is the 1/4" of bore increase. They use the same crankshaft.
BleedDodge, there is no such thing as a "big block" Pontiac, as all the performance Pontiacs are the same size blocks (externally). You cannot bore a 350 Pontiac far enough to make it a 400 (.250"). They use the same crankshaft. Before you offer advice, please do a little research, and forget all the bench racing and back room talk.

May I interject? There are some inconsistencies and inaccuracies in this discussion that should be addressed. First, let me say, 68Chevelle has a clue! I mean by that, he has obviously studied this matter and is on the right track.
Many engine makers have both "big block" and "small block" engine families in their line. The difference between them, which determines which is which, is the physical size of the BLOCK. It has no bearing on the CID (cubic inch displacement). Only the bore and stroke have ANY bearing on the displacement.
What 68 said about the 400 being the largest "small block" (in the Chevy line) is true. DO NOT confuse this engine with the 400 big block found in mid-70s pickups. Also, the smallest big block is not a 396. It is a 366, and that's ONLY if we're talking Chevy. 366 is a "tall deck" big block for heavy duty trucks. Good engine. The 400 small block requires MASS amounts of work to the block to make it worthy of a high performance application. While they are quite powerful, they are "stretched" too far, and quite weak.
Ford has a miriad of blocks. You can call them big or small, but some are and some aren't. And a Pontiac 455 is neither a big block OR small block, it is a "Pontiac" (all the blocks of note are the same size, externally).
The 273, 318, 340 and 360 Dodge are all "small block" Dodges. BTW, Bleeddodge, 340s won't TOUCH big motors UNLESS the big motors are ill-prepared. I took money from MANY a MOPE guy who felt the same about their 340s "back in the day". My GTO was just a 400 Pontiac... never had a 340 come close. Today, one can get the components for a 360 Dodge to rival the performance of the 340, and still have SOME street manners. Build a 440 Dodge right, and not much can catch it under "fair" conditions.
Lastly, if a 350 Chevy and a 454 Chevy both make 440 horsepower, chances are, the 350 will make around 400 lb. ft. of torque. The 454 will make well over 500 lb. ft. The big block wins... NEVER send a boy to do a man's job!


Well you do have some good points here your comments how ever I feel your remarks on the 400sb are inacurate. first of all the 400 is bock is an exilent foundation for a street performance engine especially in 2bolt main versons. The siamesed block is acually more rigid than the tradional block as well. The only possible upgrade to the engine would be added a set of longer rods and forged pistons.

Hey, liked the quotes. Think that I am going to use one from the last ride.

BleedDodge, there is no such thing as a "big block" Pontiac, as all the performance Pontiacs are the same size blocks (externally). You cannot bore a 350 Pontiac far enough to make it a 400 (.250"). They use the same crankshaft. Before you offer advice, please do a little research, and forget all the bench racing and back room talk.

I call it big because it's definitely not small. I know they're all the same size on the outside. You could lie to someone and say it's a 455 and they wouldn't be able to argue with you unless they looked at the tags on the motor. It might be a 350 but if someone told you it had a 455, you couldn't tell them they were lying unless you looked at those tags...

Ok, now for one more rookie question... When talking PHYSICAL volume (ie, how much space the engine will take up in the car) will a 454 Big Block and a 502 Big Block be the same size?

Yes every chevy BB from 366-502+ will use the same motor mounts and accessories. Its just whats inside that is different.

Yes every chevy BB from 366-502+ will use the same motor mounts and accessories. Its just whats inside that is different.


Right and wrong. With the taller deck height block it sets the heads a little farther out so alt. brackets etc. for a standard deck big block won't work without some customizing. I had a 427 Tall Deck in a 3/4 Ton 4 whl drv. International with 40 inch smoking tires that took an extra couple of minutes to rig up.

UncleGus

BleedDodge, it is obvious that you are a Mopar fan and that's fine, but be carefull of the statements you make because they can peg you as a fool, ie. someone who is ignorant and doesn't know it. You are obviously ignorant about how flow potential effects power potential or you wouldn't have made the statements about the Mopar 340 vs. the LS6.

Asking questions that show a lack of info or understanding is one thing, but talking like you know it all when it is so obvious that you don't, well ...

BleedDodge, it is obvious that you are a Mopar fan and that's fine, but be carefull of the statements you make because they can peg you as a fool, ie. someone who is ignorant and doesn't know it. You are obviously ignorant about how flow potential effects power potential or you wouldn't have made the statements about the Mopar 340 vs. the LS6.

Asking questions that show a lack of info or understanding is one thing, but talking like you know it all when it is so obvious that you don't, well ...
I know, I gotta stop getting drunk and going on the computer late at night. Sorry everybody.

Hey guys, read the thread and its GREAT! Very informative, and really seem to be helping strongboy2005. Wish I had something to add but it seems all covered. These are the threads that I like to see in these forums, helping other members, instead of the hate threads. Keep up the thread, I'll be following it. :)

Calgary_redneck, I must disagree with your assessment of the factory Chevy 400 block. They are notorious for splitting cylinder walls under high horsepower. They are also too thin to disapate heat efficiently.
We routinely prepare them for racing. ALWAYS start with a 2-bolt block (I agree with that!). Modify to splayed-bolt main caps, at least "half fill" with HardBlok, install the deck re-enforcement kit supplied by Moroso, align-bore to within .001", align-hone the last .001", bore and hone with a deck plate... This is a LOT of work for a stock block, but necessary for it to live at a level above 500 horsepower (under racing conditions). The Bowtie block is a LOT better.
One other thing we have learned. If you intend to use nitrous, get the Bowtie block and get it with 400-size mains. We've seen a couple of high-dollar cranks crack on nos. 2 and 4 main, when using more than a 200 horse hit. They were the 350-size mains. Cola (now Titan) and Crower were the two that broke. Both excellent pieces.

the 340 will destroy many big blocks..........i know this for fact