No start problem, '91 CRX HF, 188K miles

Hello all,
I've read all the past posts on starting problems, and some of the conditions seem similar to mine, but I haven't had any luck sorting the problem. I have the factory manuals to consult, but there is no real diagnosis section that I know of to help me. Here is what I have attempted thus far.

The starter spins the engine over strong. The tail pipe smells like gas after attempting to start. Fuel flowed readily from the line leading to the fuel filter after I disconnected it and attempted to start the car. I heard about the common problem with the main relay and checked it according to the factory manual procedures and it was fine. I checked the coil according to the factory manual procedures and it was fine. I sanded the contacts on the distributor and rotor to remove the bit of corrosion that was there. The spark plug wires were all within specifications. The plugs are relatively new. I removed the plugs, connected them to the plug wires and then grounded the outside threads to the ground strap on the valve cover, and I got no spark when turning the engine over with the starter.

I tried testing the ignitor, it has four wires leading to it, two are supposed to have continuity with ground when the key is in the running position. These two were fine. The other two, white and blue, are supposed to have continuity with ground, with the key in the off position. They didn't have continuitity with ground with the key in both on and off positions. The factory manual said to trace the wires back to the ECU and look for opens. I've already started tracing the white wire, and its really not fun.

Has anyone had any problems like this? The car is bone stock. Thanks,
Brett

my car has no spark either and is getting gas....brand new dizzy and still no spark. can't figure it out yet. if you do let me know.

http://www.binghamtonlife.com/manual/2gsm/images/91-23-57.jpg this is what your talking about right?

Yeah,
That's exactly what I'm talking about. I've done a little more testing, it turns out there is a diagnostic section in the Helms manual. So thus far I have:

1-I have fuel pressure (disconnected fuel hose at fuel filter, inserted the hose end into a jug, and cranked for a couple seconds. this yielded about 2 cups of gas. )

2-I wasn't getting any spark with the spark plug out and grounded to the engine. (No spark... great)

3-I checked the main relay according to the manual and it was fine.

4-I checked the main harness(through the main relay connector) according to the manual and found a problem. I believe it was step 8 where you check for ~10volts between the BLK and BLU/WHT wires going to the main relay when the key is in the start position. This wasn't present. The manual said to check the No.2 10A fuse and then check the wiring from the ignition switch to the fusebox and from the fuse box to the main relay connector. The No.2 fuse was fine. I checked all the involved wires for continuity and couldn't find anything odd. I checked the ignition switch according to the manual and didn't find anything wrong.

5-I checked the distributor cap, wires, plugs, coil, and ignitor wires. I cleaned up the distributor cap contacts, and there was no change. the wires all check out. The plugs looked fine. The coil checked out according to the manual. The ignitor wires did not. The WHT and BLU wires were supposed to have continuity with ground and they didn't. The manual said to trace them back to the ECU and look for opens. This wouldn't be a problem, if I had detailed wiring diagrams (the ridiculously detailed kind that map nearly every wire). I opened up half the engine harness only to find the WHT wire went to a completely different connector (there are at least 3 small WHT wires going through the fire wall at different locations), so I wasted 4-5 hours for no reason at all. What I need is an accurate and detailed wiring diagram for this thing so I can avoid going into the harness unless I need to. I have found a pdf for a factory manual on the net, but its not a US version, and doesn't include the HF model wiring differences (primarily the WHT ignitor wire). There has to be a reason this WHT wire goes through the fire wall on the drivers side of the firewall. It has to go to something before heading to the ECU back on the passenger side of the car. I would like to know why before going into it blind.

Thanks for replying, maybe we can figure this thing out.

Brett

i remember reading somewhere that the ignitor was re-called on our cars or something like that from the factory, i'd try just replacing the ignitor first and if nothing happens re-test it and see if it fixed anything

the ignitor is in the distributor. I have a brand new one from a B16,which is the same(1.6liter).so theres no way thats it.HEY BRETT!!! if you find a wireing diagram.post it,e-mail,mail,something im desperate.I thought about goin to Honda,but thats 70 miles away and as you can tell my civic dont run with the same stupid problem.The thing is I got a D16z6 swap in a 1.5liter DX hatch so my wires have been messed with.you say yours is stock so maybe its where you say the white wire goes.I'm searching for a diagram as I type,so i'll post it as soon as i find something. We can only thank GOD we dont have a chevy,or we'll have alot more problems than this.lol (america is only good for there tools)

i dunno about using the B16 ignitor, i thought u cant mix any b and d series parts at all

If I find something, I'll make sure it gets posted. I find this particularly ridiculous that there isn't a copy floating around out there somewhere, especially with the interesting in CRX modification out there.

Can anyone verify whether the Chiltons manual has any useful wiring diagrams?

chiltons is about 20-25$...im poor right now...lol...the B16 dizzy works fine,the OEM numbers are the same (TD-O2U).A friend had one on his 90 CRX Si,and I found one for cheap...so you need a dizzy buy the cheapest one you can find...just make sure it dont say -made in the U.S.A-

I'm having a very similar problem right now, only mine's a dx hatch... No spark and I replaced the ignitor, it cranks, has fuel, but won't start and I'm also looking for a good wiring diagram because the haynes generic one I have doesn't say shit about the wiring harness and sensors etc... I have been working on this off and on for 2 weeks and I'm out of options so I'll start over from the beginning once I can find a decent manual with wiring diagrams... can anyone recommend a good place to buy used factory shop manuals? I've had enough of this crappy generic one and a good honda one would be well worth it to me. This is really driving me crazy trying to find the problem... :banghead:
any help will be very much appreciated

i remember reading somewhere that the ignitor was re-called on our cars or something like that from the factory, i'd try just replacing the ignitor first and if nothing happens re-test it and see if it fixed anything

1PhatCX DAMN! I wish I would have listened to you!

Hello all,
Just to conclude this little adventure in high mileage hondas, I will post the ending to the story here. After checking just about everything the situation was this: no spark but the engine turned over, there was an error code #1 from the ECU that would not go away even if the hazard relay was removed to clear the memory (battery was disconnected as well just to make sure), and when I checked the white and blue\white wires to the ignition control module (igniter) they were supposed to be continuous with ground and they weren't. In the new hard copy helms manual I bought ($70), it said that if two of the ignitor wires had battery voltage with the ignition on and the other two had continuity with ground, then the ignitor was bad. They didn't have continuity so I thought something else was wrong.

Guess what...I was wrong. Going on what I had observed, I figured the ECU was cooked or something. The O2 sensor was new, so why else would the #1 error code pop up? I had the ECU rebuilt for $240, which changed nothing. At least I have a lifetime warranty on it now...anyways. When this didn't do the trick I decided to swallow my pride and I broke down and called AAA with my fiances membership and towed the car to the dealership. There I learned some very interesting things.

There was a Ignition Control Module Recall in 1993, and if your car was brought in before 1998, they would have fixed it for free. After an intensive search I found that:

"The bad igniter will be black in color, and say "OKI" on it. The good igniter is brown, and says "NEC" on it. Many dealers punch a small hole above the VIN (above the 2nd letter, H, in both my CRXs) when the recall was performed. http://crx.honda-perf.org/faq/data/4.html)"

To have the igniter replaced the dealer charged me ~$250. Ridiculous, but I guess information isn't cheap. So what did we learn? 1) Helm's manuals don't come with real wiring diagrams, they didn't help me diagnose a VERY simple problem, and they suck donkey balls in general. 2) I should have listened to 1PhatCX.

Hopefully someone will learn something from this.

yea everyone listen to me, i am god...... lol nah j/k


thats good u got it fixed tho man, sucks it cost u an ass load of cash tho

i had a problem like this with my dx, thought it was my ignitor but i used a good oen from another engine and that wasnt it, it actually turned out to be my ignition coil even thought it tested good, but what happen was that inside the tower the metal got all melted so it wasnt connecting good with my cap so a new coil and my car runs fine now

Im having this exact problem... i have already put over $150 into this with no luck... if anyone knows a solution please post it

i figured out my civic today... when i installed the new distributer cap the little contact between the coil and the cap came off... its barely held in by a spring... i found it laying below the dizzy... well i put that back in and the engine fired right up... hope this helps :P