Buick Grand National

yeah, its all understood, conversation with a series of well thought out arguments, not personal attacks.

My only reply is that its cheap to build a turbo buick if you are one of the lucky ones who owns one. Is their any kit to install a turbo 3.8 into another car, or non-turbo Regal? I figure if you want one you need to get an original one because of all the sensors. Is the 3.8 in the turbos models unique?

What is the stock compression for a turbo Buick? I didn't know that you could turn down the boost. I tried running 87 in my turbo volvo, figuring the knock sensor would adjust the timing for me. I was wrong, it has 8.8:1 compression and I soon blew out the knock sensor. I took me a while to figure out why I had no power below 4500rpm! Luckily the part only cost $32. My volvo runs 11 psi stock. I have a T in the pressure line that tricks the computer into letting me have about 15 psi. Its fun, but more DISPLACEMENT would be more fun. ;)

yeah, its all understood, conversation with a series of well thought out arguments, not personal attacks.

My only reply is that its cheap to build a turbo buick if you are one of the lucky ones who owns one. Is their any kit to install a turbo 3.8 into another car, or non-turbo Regal? I figure if you want one you need to get an original one because of all the sensors. Is the 3.8 in the turbos models unique?

What is the stock compression for a turbo Buick? I didn't know that you could turn down the boost. I tried running 87 in my turbo volvo, figuring the knock sensor would adjust the timing for me. I was wrong, it has 8.8:1 compression and I soon blew out the knock sensor. I took me a while to figure out why I had no power below 4500rpm! Luckily the part only cost $32. My volvo runs 11 psi stock. I have a T in the pressure line that tricks the computer into letting me have about 15 psi. Its fun, but more DISPLACEMENT would be more fun. ;)


If you can find a turbo block it will fit anywhere there is room. I know people who have one in a feiro,second gen RX7 and even a 2003 caddy cts(check out my new thread for video of the CTS.) The only two differences between the NA 3.8 and the turbo 3.8 that I know of is the turbo block has different pistions and a little more nickel content in the block. and the turbo is an SFI car with distribuitorless ingnition compared to the carbed. 3.8. The compresion is 8.0 to 1. As for turning down the boost I can do that because I have an external waste gate. my boost is controllable from inside the car. But that is a standard bolt on when you modify one

All turbo and non-turbo blocks are the same 109 casting. The only thing a turbo block has that a non-turbo doesn't is a drain back line from the turbo. Just have your machine shop drill and tap it for you. :)

What about all the electronics? Turbo motors tend to run hotter and if I buy a TR chances are I will need to replace the engine wiring harness a few years down the road.
I already replaced the harness on my Volvo. It cost me $1000 to have a mechanic do it. I don't think I could have done it myself. Does GM still sell a harness for the TR's?

my GN runs at 160 no matter what hot cold A/C on or off. I have never herd of having to replace the wireing harness because of heat. But a company called caspers electronics does make the harness

yeah, the turbo puts off a lot of heat. I guess i should have clarified. The engine compartment is a lot hotter in turbo cars. My experience with GM electrical systems is that some are great and some are horrible. It sounds like the regal is pretty good if you haven't had any trouble yet.

oh ok I get it now. sorry

Whats the thermostaat usually set for on turbo cars? Does it allow them to run hotter, or right around 195?

Stock GN's run 190-220 range. Only need to replace the harness if you cut it or break the injector clips. :)

about the camaro's: another thing to worry about, is the stuff that you'll start to break once you start modding the car. I'm kinda tired right now so my memory is gone but i think someone mentioned that the GN drivetrain is extremely tuff.


BTW, I'm new here so i'm gonna go post a newbie thread.

The GN drivetrain will put you into the 9's-10's with the properly built tranny. Might be a good idea to install aftermarket posi and axles when you start going that fast, though.

Posi don't need posi. 1.7 60' without posi.......just kiddin I want posi bad!!!!!! anyone know where a nice posi unit is????? I think at like 11.30 sec or something you need c-clip elimanators. I'm not shure though I need to dig up the good ole rulebook.

I dunno......maybe a stupid question....what's a c-clip eliminator? I no newbie to cars or the mechanics of them, but I've never heard of that.

I'm in the same boat as you, but I think it has to do with the way the springs are attatched to the differential.

c-clips are what hold the axles together in the housing. they break alot. they are why GM axles suck

Sweet.....I'm not alone.

Thanks for the reply. Now I know.

yea if your ever at the track and you see a GM car go one way and the wheel and axle go another then you know the c-clip broke

That would be kinda funny looking....like....wait....that's not supposed to do that....

Axles on the GN don't break very often. I have made 10 sec passes on stock axles, stock rear end for that matter. One of the best cars I have ever owned.

Axles on the GN don't break very often. I have made 10 sec passes on stock axles, stock rear end for that matter. One of the best cars I have ever owned.


I know I was talking about all other GM axles...... Why GM can't learn from this i don't know. 10 sec buicks are cool. What do you have done to your car??

On my first buick, I had the whole motor redone. It was a factory short block degreased with stock internals, roller cam, stock heads ported, exhaust, fuel pump, intercooler, all little supporting items, and I think a Garrett 62 turbo. This car ran 10.69 @124 driving to and from the track. My second with a Stage 2 272" ran 9.83 @ 137, didn't drive this one to the track but it was perfectly streetable except for the slicks. Both cars used the stock computer, no DFI.

sweet. Have you ever been to bowling green for the Nats.

I have been to Bowling Green about 3 times, thinking between the years of 98-2001. Haven't been there as of late. It is a great show, have you been there? When I am there, I usually was around Red Armstrong, the guru from Ohio. Been out of the seen for a while, thinking about getting back in. Went to Englishtown too, Buick Mustang shootout. Do you venture out to any events?

Check the new issue of GMHTP (GM High Tech Performance) Cal Hartline runs 8.50, yes 8's, in his street driven GN with the STOCK rear end! These cars kick a$$! I feel very lucky to own mine. :grinno:

Grand Nationals were rear-wheel drive and never produced more than 245hp (I'm not counting the GNX). Today's superchaged 3.8L V6 produces 240hp in front-wheel drive applications and Cadillacs routinely put out up to 300hp. The transmissions are available.
The 245hp was what Buick ADMITTED. They had to get it past Turbo Hydramatic or else they would have a car with no transmission. The 245 figure was achieved at 4400 rpm. The heads continued to breath up to 5400 or so. Car and Driver estimated about 290 in their April 1986 issue based upon its performance in the 1/4 mile.

Morpheus

You could order the 3.8 turbo drive train in any rear drive Buick Regal (T Types , too) in 1986 or 1987. There are some grandma looking cars (bench seats, column shifter, fake wire wheel hub caps, and landau roofs) that can rip off a 13 second quarters out there. They are also lighter than the GN's which had power everything and extra sound insulation material.
Not to mention Red Armstrong's wife's (Jane) car. It does mid to low 10's with the Limited package (including landau roof). No, it's not stock ;^).

also I'm gonna figue that you are going to ask me about the Turbo Trans Am. In 1989 for the 20th anniv. pontiac borrowed the buick turbo v-6 and put it ina GTA body. same drive train as a GN but in a TA.
Actually, the TTA had the heads from the 3800 Buick engine (different from the 3.8 in the Turbo Buicks.) The engine bay was too thin for the 3.8 heads. The new heads bumped the compression a bit. Also, the TTA had a cross-drilled crank from the factory.

Actually, the TTA had the heads from the 3800 Buick engine (different from the 3.8 in the Turbo Buicks.) The engine bay was too thin for the 3.8 heads. The new heads bumped the compression a bit. Also, the TTA had a cross-drilled crank from the factory.

I mentioned tha somewhere in this thread. I think if not my bad... My uncle has a TTA bad ass cars. Probabaly the only 3rd gen f-body I would own

Anyone know where I can get a Grand National engine (pref 1984-87) these days? Anywhere near San Antonio?

Thanks!

[email protected]

I have just discovered the Grand National, and I must say that it has turned into my dream car! I have been looking into them, and was wondering about their reliability. I'm certainly not affraid to put some work into a car, but I don't want to get in over my head with problems (i.e. transmission, drivetrain etc...). Any information would be great.

I have just discovered the Grand National, and I must say that it has turned into my dream car! I have been looking into them, and was wondering about their reliability. I'm certainly not affraid to put some work into a car, but I don't want to get in over my head with problems (i.e. transmission, drivetrain etc...). Any information would be great.


The number one most certian thing you can do to keep a turbo buick realiable is to get a scanmaster or something to watch or knock retard. Keeping spark knock to a minimal is the key. As far as I'm conserned the weakest link in the car is the Tranny. Probabally the best thing to do for that (besides getting a beefed up 200r4 is to put a trans. cooler on the car.

Keep the kock out and run good fuel and you should be good to go.

Anyone know where I can get a Grand National engine (pref 1984-87) these days? Anywhere near San Antonio?

Thanks!

[email protected]
Check out the GNT-type website, www.gnttype.org. They have a section called that has wanted and for sale items.
Jeff

i have a 87 TurboT with bolt-ons and i ran 12.22@108 w/stock turbo set at 19psi. i have a Ta-49 now and i will be expecting 11.50's@116-118mph. and my car weighs about 3700lbs. w/ me in it.

Cody

i have a 87 TurboT with bolt-ons and i ran 12.22@108 w/stock turbo set at 19psi. i have a Ta-49 now and i will be expecting 11.50's@116-118mph. and my car weighs about 3700lbs. w/ me in it.

Cody


What made you go with the Ta turbo instead of the Te series?

i have a 87 TurboT with bolt-ons and i ran 12.22@108 w/stock turbo set at 19psi. i have a Ta-49 now and i will be expecting 11.50's@116-118mph. and my car weighs about 3700lbs. w/ me in it.

Cody
Have you upgraded the fuel system? What pump(s) are you running?
Jeff

the Ta-49 works very well with the stock converter and the spoolup is amazing.and it's more than enough turbo to get me to mid 11's.and i have a bosch AFPR,Blue Tops,Red Armstong Pump hotwired.

Cody

the Ta-49 works very well with the stock converter and the spoolup is amazing.and it's more than enough turbo to get me to mid 11's.and i have a bosch AFPR,Blue Tops,Red Armstong Pump hotwired.

Cody


I went with the TE-44 before I bought my TE-60. Now im looking at getting a Te-63. A big shaft turbo is not really affected by compressor surge.

the Ta-49 works very well with the stock converter and the spoolup is amazing.and it's more than enough turbo to get me to mid 11's.and i have a bosch AFPR,Blue Tops,Red Armstong Pump hotwired.

Cody
It sounds like a good combination. The Blue Tops should be enough to get you into the mid 11's, but you may want to run an EGT just in case. We have a club meeting Sunday and I'll ask the TA-49 guys what they're running for mid 11's. My MSD 50's petered out at 11.04, but I was running a single Wabro 307 and exceeded 43 psi fuel pressure.

It sounds like a good combination. The Blue Tops should be enough to get you into the mid 11's, but you may want to run an EGT just in case. We have a club meeting Sunday and I'll ask the TA-49 guys what they're running for mid 11's. My MSD 50's petered out at 11.04, but I was running a single Wabro 307 and exceeded 43 psi fuel pressure.

I run a single walbro 340 hotwired with like 33 PSI line off pressure. My O2's are 774's range.

All turbo and non-turbo blocks are the same 109 casting. The only thing a turbo block has that a non-turbo doesn't is a drain back line from the turbo. Just have your machine shop drill and tap it for you. :)

Hey, Did you guys know that the 86- 87 blocks had larger oiling passages? just thought that might help find a core, oh, and don't put that motor in front of a standard 200r4 or you'll be walking home sooner than later.

yea if your ever at the track and you see a GM car go one way and the wheel and axle go another then you know the c-clip broke
I haven't seen the clips break, usually it is the end of tha axle, and the eliminator is a bearing and retainer set that presses on the axle and bolts to the housing, which holds the axle in the housing, sounds good to me, as I personally would be upset if I had an axle break at 100mph.. sounds like a pretty bad day to me. It really should have been factory, shouldn't it?

I personally would be upset if I had an axle break at 100mph.. sounds like a pretty bad day to me. It really should have been factory, shouldn't it?
As bad as that is, one of our club members broke a driveshaft at the big end BEHIND the loop. Needless to say, I'm running two driveshaft loops on my car.
Jeff

As bad as that is, one of our club members broke a driveshaft at the big end BEHIND the loop. Needless to say, I'm running two driveshaft loops on my car.
Jeff
I bet that was a pretty bad day, Huh? were you there when they did? and the real question is, Did he vault it and were they ok?
How about a 10 point driveshaft cage? 1-1/2 chromemoly tube with a nice shiny chrome plating.. don't know about the cage, but the chrome is worth .2 in the 1/4! : :biggrin:

I bet that was a pretty bad day, Huh? were you there when they did? and the real question is, Did he vault it and were they ok?
How about a 10 point driveshaft cage? 1-1/2 chromemoly tube with a nice shiny chrome plating.. don't know about the cage, but the chrome is worth .2 in the 1/4! : :biggrin:
I was there when it happened. I couldn't see anything from the stands. He ALMOST vaulted the car, but it fortunately it didn't. It DID dig a trench in the dragstrip and took out the lights for about 45 minutes.
As far as the driveshaft cage, please keep this quiet. You can bet your a$$ we'll be seeing them on Hondas and Toyotas (even the FWD ones).:rofl:
Jeff

thats really a great idea, you can bet those rice burners will try to steal it!!

Big Black L1 with a RoadMaster wrapped @ it!