Eclipse VS 'Lude/Integ...is Honda getting boring?

Hi people. This is not a hate mail, or a rant and rave. I just don't understand Honda.

Honda makes some of the best looking, most economical cars in the world, with transmissions to envy and engines to copy. But why arent some of their cars exciting??

I'm talking specifically about Eclipses VS Preludes or Integs. Why the hell doesn't Honda join the bandwagon and stop stuffing VTec crap into every engine and do some turbocharging? Granted, VTec technology is good, and Honda engines are meant to last lifetimes, as are their trannies. But why can't they make exciting cars? If a indebted co. like Mitsubishi can come up with cars like the 3000GT SL Spyder (AWD Twin-Turbo 4-wheel steering) and the Eclipse AWD GSX, why the hell is Honda holding back? Sure, the NSX is cool. but you cannot compare it to the 3000GT in any way, track or street. The S2000 rocks though, but its not in the college guy affordable range. Please, dont feed me, "Whatever, the NSX...or Integ Type-R, Prelude SI...etc would kill u on the road, etc." I know these cars have bulletproof reliability and awesome quality, but 30mpg stickers and VTec @ redline is not something that excites me! Is anyone on the same page as me here ? It is important to realize that this isnt a hate posting, I just don't get Honda.

Mitsubishi has had terrible QC issues all thru its history here and isnt the best brand out there. Hondas answer to the Eclipse GSX was the Prelude SI and the Acura Integra Type-R? Give me a break, please. Atleast Toyota came out with the Celica convertible. I know Honda is capable of so much more. Imagine if Honda came out with a ride in direct competition with the Eclipse turbos, with a convertible and turbo option. A 2.2 VTec stock turbo Spyder from Honda...that would be crazy!

Someone throw me a bone here. Toyota's gone nuts with their stupid looking Scion BbX box crap and Nissan's got that crappy looking 4 dr Sentra SE-R (to compete with what? the EVO?? lol).

i agree honda needs to meet the challenge a little bit, but the majority of the people would take reliabilty over speed anyday (not many in this forum[myself included], but everyday people). if they turbocharged a lude or teg, it would most likely be bought by someone who drove it hard and the motor would blow, just like the peice of shit dsm motors. and then honda would be labeled as unreliable as a mitsu.... and there sales would suck as much as mitzubitis. and you wouldn't post here if you wern't looking to piss someone off, i don't believe you for a second :flipa:

Actually, Honda's answer to the GSX was the Prelude Type R and S (220hp with ATTS/LSD), which do waste the poor DSM. However you have to realize that Honda is a mature driver's car, and always has been. It was never meant to be a boy racer toy, and the Civic/Integra phenomenon was just a fluke.

The VR4 is hardly affordable to any college kid. With a base price of $45,000, you must be talking about buying an old one. You can't compare a used car with a new one. The $27,000 GSX pricetag is a little more on the ball here, but you could easily say that the S2000 would be as affordable when it becomes used. Or maybe not, because Hondas hold their values better than Mitsus do.

Bottom line is that if you really want a car with a turbo and AWD, then pass over Honda and get an EVO 8 or STi. If you are talking about getting a used car, then I wouldn't skip a Prelude VTEC as an option over a GSX just yet. As a former Talon TSI AWD owner, I will tell you that at around and over 100k miles these things become riddled with problems, both major and minor.

Also, that comment about Toyota only having the Celica convertible was totally unfounded. Two cars come to mind immediately, being the Supra and MR2 Turbo.

Not really dbebesi, my entire clan owns hondas! About the Hondas holding vlaue, oh my god that isnt even funny. My cousin bought a used 99 Galant GTZ with 80,000 miles for $7000. That sort of depreciation is crazy.

As for the Supra, I cant compare it to a GSX, ofcourse not, thats 3000 category, and the MR2 was a bit of S2000 class...the only Toyota car that I think is with the Eclipse/Prelude/Integ competition class was the Celica...no?

Okay so educate me. Where can I get info on your Prelude Type-R-S LSD thing on the web...? I'd like to do more research I'm thinking of getting another ride. I bet these sepcial edition Prelude is pretty rare. I think the 97+ Preludes are ugly as hell, and the ones you guys have in your signiture pics above are the best shapes honda has come out with. The S and R came out in those shapes right? (hopefully)?

shum.

I think Honda might appear to be behind in the game because they haven't used turbocharging yet, however, I think this is just one of the two directions toward getting power.

Other automotive companies use forced induction to gain more power by sacrificing reliability during the higher miles and they might have an advantage there by saving on production costs and because most people don't drive their brand new car until it's all broken down. Thus, the people who buy the cars first hand usually don't see the effects of high mileage on these cars.

We don't know which direction will be better in the end, but we know that they have high resale value for a reason.

If Honda switched to forced induction right now, they'd surely be ahead of the the competition because they've already done research on many possibilities using all motor.

this is a joke i hate dsm they never last and honda's resale sucks ass think about it what resale win you get in to a real car honda has nothing. bmw audi and all the big names now thats same resale... and look at bmw you dsm guys they dont use turbos and there m3 and m5 is one of the fastest cars in the world and i blow away my friends lude si 2.1 with my bmw wiht m3 motor swap he was like 5 cars back both companys need to work on things. oh yeah dsm dont stand up either there like dogs all over the road my friend had one and at 115 the car win't wired and lost control and win't throw a building.

there is NO such thing as a prelude type R fellas. doesn't exist, never has, and never will. prelude type s is not available in the US. yeah, it sucks.

why is honda holding back? what makes you think they are, coz they don't have a sports car other than a $30k roadster and an overpriced has-been such as the NSX??? i love the NSX but it's aged and needs to be Xed or replaced. the competition leaves it in the dust. hopefully honda will pull the trigger on the HSC, we shall see.

as far as honda being boring, if you want to see boring, take a look at toyota's current line up. the celica has been discontinued FYI.

i also think we'll see a mass-produced honda V8 before we see a turbocharged factory honda.

"as far as honda being boring, if you want to see boring, take a look at toyota's current line up. the celica has been discontinued FYI." del.

i honostly think the Scion TC isnt that bad

Well, smokeymipot, go to the merc.benz forum and read my thread under S-Class. There are 4 German cars in my immediate family: a 96 S 320, a 98 E320, a 1998 Audi A4 and a 98 Bimmer 740iL. These German cars drive awesome and are very comforatble. Dont even tell me about quality though, okay? They suck ass. These over-priced pieces of crap start falling apart the minute they leave the factory. You talk about quality? What sort of car fux up the way I have described in my Benz post? Go read it man. Straight outta the factory and these lame ass snob-mobiles fuse a light, their gauges stop working, door locks f up, windows don't roll down , blah blah. This is from first hand experience with more tha 4 cars in my household. HONDA knows how to make cars, no doubt about that. Their fcking engineering will see you thru to the next life. Screw BMW and Benz. They feed ppl like you the "snob appeal" crap. I lived in Hamburg, Germany where these lame ass cars do not even sell bro.

del: ahaha, yeah man, holy crap! What the hell is Toyota doing? Theyre like "lets make really ugly cars, maybe reverse phsyc. will sell em!",.....uh...no thanx! See, the thing with the NSX , is that for the money, its not crap! Serioudly, okay, sure, you get Honda reliability and rock solid engineeering...but for that price, see what a Supra TT or a 3000 TT offers, both in technology and power...know what I mean? Its like me buying a $2000 Sony VAIO with a stupid ass 32MB shared video card.... for that price, Dell could build me a system that would outperform the VAIO in every way.

510prelude: I agree, the tC is a LOT better. I actually like it. I don't know, I think I'm starting to like Elements too though...I saw a black one lowered with 18" hyperblack 5Zigens...tinted and stuff....guys, it looked pretty sweet. My brother went to Japan a few months ago, and he told me the cool thing there was to own a freakin minivan..yes guys, a minivan . I think the Element and the bX wont last in the American market as far as their target audience is concerened. I mean, what American kid would pick a box over something like an eclipse or a mustang or a lude? Defies me.

Hay, so about the prelude Type whatever....its not made here? That sucks... JDM always gets good sht.

smokeymicpot , go here:


http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=244854

The SiR is the Prelude Type R. And no, these were never available in the United States, so I guess it really doesn't count.

The Toyota MR2 Turbo is in GSX price range, if that means anything. But I really wouldn't put it in S2000 class, as the only thing similar in the two is the rear wheel drive. I wouldn't put any car it any class, actually, except for pricing.

As for the current lineup, Toyota and Honda are no longer in the market for performance sport cars. Look to Subaru and Mitsubishi if you want that. Toyota and Honda are finally maturing and are moving onto luxury and environment friendly eco cars. And frankly, I hope they never go back. Not to say that this is the end, because Toyota has unveiled plans for a 600hp hybrid that may have the Supra nameplate.

Maybe I'm getting old, but I would rather take a used BMW 3 series over an S2000 anyways. There's more to a car than being really fast.

Shpyder, you need to get into a BMW and drive it to really know why people buy Beamers and Benzes. Everything from the seats to steering has a certain feeling to it. Everything is clean and crisp, and even closing the door has a very secure and confident sound to it. Only now has Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti been able to imitate that, but does not yet have the feel like these Germanic cars do. Audi and Volkswagon are excluded from this statement.

I am a converted boy racer to corporate snob car whore.

Ummm Shpyder you must have lived in a really bad area of Hamburg if you thought that benzes dont sell there... I also used to live there and i can show you neighborhoods/streets where almost every household has a benz or bmw.

damn that's a nice azz Ecplise....

That's why when I get the money, I'm getting an M3, M5, Lamborg diablo, lancer evo, subaru sti, NSX. :)

Shpyder, you need to get into a BMW and drive it to really know why people buy Beamers and Benzes. Everything from the seats to steering has a certain feeling to it. Everything is clean and crisp, and even closing the door has a very secure and confident sound to it. Only now has Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti been able to imitate that, but does not yet have the feel like these Germanic cars do. Audi and Volkswagon are excluded from this statement.

I am a converted boy racer to corporate snob car whore.


slam the door on my audi and it'll give you a nice thump to it. not sure why you excluded audis :dunno: (yes, i'm a biased audi owner. :p )

and the euro cars also have had a recent bad streak of reliability issues compared to the jap cars that even the domestics have been more reliable. a lot of electrical shit. the more crap you put into cars, the greater the number of problems that go wrong. not that european cars are poorly built or anything, but euro cars have all these little gizmos and gadget things, something's always liable to break. if they wanted my opinion, they should know that simplicity is sometimes nicer.

after i'm done with my audi, i'll probably go for a jap car again based on that fact alone. maintenance and parts for euro cars are also very pricey. luckily, audi and bmw offer great warrantie (4 yr/50,000 mile free maintenace everything except tires; they'll replace everything from a light bulb to a whole new turbo FOR FREE)

hopefully there will be an AWD acura TL available by then coz i'm done with FWD cars. :D that's plan B if my plan A to buy a carrera GT or aston martin db9 fall through. :lol:

AcesHigh: I would be nuts to challenge the drive and comfort these German cars provide. I couldn't agree with you more. My issue is the host of silly problems that these cars can create when they are practically still new....everything from windows getting stuck to door locks jamming to radiators popping. You go to get them fixed and the bill will make you faint. I think these cars should never be purchased without warranty. Apart from that, give me an S-600 tank shape any day. haha.

SBallerk2: thanks!

Its really too bad if Honda and Toyota are pulling out of the sports car/racer boy car market. I was really looking forward to some kind of crazy fast ride from Honda (non- S2000), not that they had ever given any indication that they were on that path in the first place, but still. You know, I actually saw some prototype Supras on some Jap mags my brother brought back from Japan. Some where straight up UGLEEEE. I mean....holy crap ppl! Has toyota taken up an ugly fetish or something? First the boring ass corolla (WHY would anyone take this over a civic??) then the box thing. The last gen supra was a blast, and I kinda like the new Solaras.


When I get the money...Aston Martin V, Rolls Phantom, a Zonda, and a Viper. (0o0oh yeah and a T-28 KILLER for my eclipse, hahaha).

my brother lives out there and thats all he sees he says is bmw and audi and all bad ass cars and i look'd at your thing and it says you got it with 65,000 miles on it you dont know what happen to that car before you got it you dont know how it was driven. i drive my bmw hard as hell and pay some one to clean it up before i sell it to make it look good and win you say drive it off the show room floor you mean 0 miles not 65,000 like what you got try spending 70,000 for a new one they well just give you a dif car if that happens... and every one else dont get me wrong i love honda always well there fun toys...

The point is, no car ought to be behaving like that at 65,00 miles, especially not a $75,000 Benz. What does driving hard and previous history have to do with the windows malfunctioning, the AC going out, the door locks messing up, the sunroof jamming, tail lights going bust, gauges stopping from working? These parts are not maintained, they cannot be maintained. How do you maintain a door lock? Sure you maintain the engine. But I never said anything about engines falling apart. Its everything besides the engine & tranny. The longivity of non-maintainable parts like these say something about the quality... the 99-03 mitsubishi Galants were horrible quality. You have everything from paint fading after 2 years to hard-as-rock leather, to the stereo malfunctioning. We have 2 GTZs in our family. The engine or tranny didnt break down..so hurray I guess huh. As I said...German cars w/o a warranty is suicide.

NSX can take a 3000gt anyday! your making me laugh man. Nsx is fast for a n.a. engine.

my enzo will own you all and as for this thread honda can make a decent car that can last unlike bmw and mercedes, but i dont even think it's fair to compare since a honda costs like $17k when a ben costs like 50... cut the crap and admit that in the honda price range, there isn't a better buy that will last longer and have the same potential as any other car in the price range.

"I agree, the tC is a LOT better. I actually like it. I don't
know, I think I'm starting to like Elements too though...I saw a black one
lowered with 18" hyperblack 5Zigens...tinted and stuff....guys, it looked pretty
sweet. My brother went to Japan a few months ago, and he told me the cool thing
there was to own a freakin minivan..yes guys, a minivan . I think the Element
and the bX wont last in the American market as far as their target audience is
concerened. I mean, what American kid would pick a box over something like an
eclipse or a mustang or a lude? Defies me."


Yeah, ill admit some elements have grown on me, some xb's to. I mean if i was into cruising or just show or just a nice roomy daily drive I think I'd buy one, but thats just me.

Z8 anyone? ;-)

of course...(don't flame me for this, i'm just talking crap, i'm bored)...if honda brought back the del sol lineup, stretched the engine bay an extra foot or two, and dropped in a cadillac northstar v8, put a freaking killer ass suspension on it, honda would be just as fun without a turbo

cut the crap and admit that in the honda price range, there isn't a better buy that will last longer and have the same potential as any other car in the price range.

i 100% agree. also, thank you sphyder for not being a dick like most of the gsx owners on these forums. i love the gsx and i love the prelude.

honda is playing this smart. years from now everyone will be buying hybrid cars, and they are just getting an early jump on things...

didnt read the whole thread but about your question

i asked that question to myself quite some time ago, honda manufacturers are not aiming at fast cars, they are an economy car system, if they werent, why else did they come out with a car that makes 60 mpg instead of a s3000

when i get money...i'll buy a freaking helicopter

MunG35: Ofcourse hondas are the best bang for the buck, but this post wasn't about that. I was solely talking about sports car/ entry level sports class for ages 17-27.

SRV BOY: I was talking about the VR-4 3000GT. That twin turbo would smoke the pants of an NSX. And yeah, for a n.a. the NSX is the best sports 6 cyl out there. The silk smooth tranny and excellent aerodynamics make up for the lack of aggregate hp.

r8erz4life: thanks.. it is important to look at both sides of an issue always. Honda has unmatched reliability and quality. But I think your right, they are a mature brand now and are moving on to different things...fast cars were never really their thing.

You all should try buying a Ford. They make great cars. Cheaper than Honda

NSX - 0-60 4.7 secs thats all i need to say.
Tell what your twin turbo can do

1997 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 4.8 13.60
1997 Acura NSX-T 4.8 13.30

Thats more accurate. Oh year sphyder really smoke the pants of an nsx. I hate people that talk bullshit. I think Mitsuibishi is getting boring, what cars do they have. The new eclipse is slow and looks crap. Mitsubishi is also unreliable. They had a recall a little while back. I personally think Mitsubishi is crap. It is also not very popular. Go to a Mitsubishi forum and so how many people are in their compared to the honda/acura forum. Sorry buddy but Mitsubishi compared to honda sucks big time

Good for a car without any turbo or supercharger (NSX). They should call the VR-4 a POO-POO Rocket

lol, if the nsx had turbo it would rape the Vr-4 piece of crap!!

a vr-4 is still an awesome car!

You all should try buying a Ford. They make great cars. Cheaper than Honda

:rofl: WHAT FORD!?!? HAHAHAHAHAHA :rofl:

You all should try buying a Ford. They make great cars. Cheaper than Honda
they equal up to hondas price anyway with their mpg

You buy an Acura or Lexus, the last thing you worry about is stupid unseen issues like all the above happening.
ok, now when i drive anywhere i go i seem to see alot of 2nd gen tegs out there.mine has 200k miles on it and i have had no real problems short of what i caused. so acura seems to hold up just as well and the depreciation value holds the same if not alittle better than the hondas do.

You all should try buying a Ford. They make great cars. Cheaper than Honda
and you could never get me to buy a damn ford or chevy for that matter. i spit on them.

no no. i love imports too but im the only one in my family with an import. everyone else has either a chevy or ford. ford is mediocre when it comes to reliability but i was amazed by chevy. believe it or not chevys are built to last. my dad has a chevy astro van that he beats the living shit out of every day(hes been in an out of probation and road rage type schools) its got 178k miles and has never had any mechanical problems.

NSX - 0-60 4.7 secs thats all i need to say.
Tell what your twin turbo can do

actually the vr4 and nsx in a straight line is a drivers race. my buddy cory owns a nsx and previous to that he had 2 vr4's. he says that they are so close in speed he can't tell the difference. in many ways he feels the vr4 is faster, but he also feels the nsx is faster toward high rpm.
like i said in a straight line its a drivers race, but on a track the nsx will rape a vr4. the handling on a nsx is beautiful


http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars_trucks/1999/7/comparison_test_13_quickest_cars/images/tb_mitsubishi.jpg

Putting the power to the pavement is the name of the acceleration game. The Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 has 320 hp, much less than the Jag and Lightning, and the same power rating as the Mustang Cobra. So what gives the Mitsubishi the advantage over them? Traction.

This is the only all-wheel-drive car in this test. That means no wheelspin. Launching the Mitsubishi is so simple, it's like flying into outer space - even a monkey can do it. Just tach up the DOHC twin-turbocharged V6 up near its 6000 rpm power peak and drop that clutch. Granted, this isn't the best thing for the car's durability, but it sure gets this 2+2 off the line like a slingshot. All four 18-in. tires dig in, the 3000GT squats like Mike Piazza, and you are gone.

Don't expect any rubber when you throw gears, either. Tire slip in this car is harder to come by than a date with Pamela Anderson. Shifter action and clutch takeup could be a bit smoother, so quick gear changes aren't easy. But the V6's surprising amount of low-end torque really gets the heavy Mitsubishi going. And the motor pulls right up to its 7000 rpm redline.

One thing missing from the Mitsubishi's stellar performance: the right sounds. Its hair dryer exhaust note just doesn't cut it.

Test Summary:
Mitsubishi 3000GT

Base price: $44,600, Price as tested: $45,140
Engine: 3.0L/181.0 CID DOHC 24v twin turbo V6
HP: 320 @ 6000 rpm, Torque: 315 ft.-lb. @ 2500 rpm
Trans: 6M, Drivetrain: front engine/awd
Final drive: 3.87:1 w/center viscous coupling
Curb weight: 3737 lb, Weight/HP ratio: 11.7
Horsepower/liter: 106.7, Tires: 245/40ZR18
Acceleration: 0-30 mph: 1.70 sec. 0-60 mph: 5.00 sec.
1/4 mile: 13.44 sec. @ 101.79 mph

Chevy is not shit. The Corvette line has always been an incredible package and value. Camaros, new and old, are also great cars. I would rather save my money and get a Corvette C5 than an NSX. There also has been a myriad of great cars in the past by the Ford and Chevy line.

Id still get a VR-4 though...the Spyder. I dont really care if the NSX beats it by a few milliseconds or w/e. I bet the NSX handles a lot better though. But I think the VR-4 would be a little more fun to drive...I love anything turbo. The whistles and psshhhts and little turbo noises are fun, lol. So is going topless.


Corvettes rock. So do Vipers. Hey, have you guys seen the Chrysler ME-12?? That thing is off the hook.