Article.

BY ANDREW GREELEY


BERLIN -- I can understand, my German friend said, why Germans voted for Hitler in 1933 -- though he did not receive a majority of the vote. The Weimar Republic was weak and incompetent. The Great Depression had ruined the nation's war-devastated economy. People were bitter because they thought their leaders had betrayed them in the war. They wanted revenge for the humiliation of Versailles. Hitler promised strong leadership and a new beginning. But why did they continue to support that group of crazy drug addicts, thugs, killers and madmen?



The historical question remains. I leave aside the question of the guilt of the whole German people (a judgment beyond my competence because I am not God) and ask what explanations might account for what happened. Hitler turned the German economy around in short order. He was crazy, of course, a demagogic mystic sensitive to aspirations of the German spirit. He appealed skillfully to the dark side of the German heritage. Anti-Semitism was strong in Germany, as it was in most European countries, but not violent until Hitler manipulated it. He stirred up the memories of historic German military accomplishments and identified himself with Frederick the Great -- thus placating the Prussian ethos of the German army. He promised glory to a nation still smarting from the disaster of 1918. Germany was emerging from the ashes, strong and triumphant once again. He also took control of the police apparatus. The military might have been able to dump him till 1937. After that he was firmly in power. The path lay open to holocaust.

Can this model be useful to understand how contemporary America is engaged in a criminally unjust war that has turned much of the world against it, a war in which torture and murder have become routine? Has the combination of the World Trade Center attack and a president who believes his instructions come from God unleashed the dark side of the American heritage?

What is this dark side? I would suggest that it is the mix of Calvinist religious righteousness and ''my-country-right-or-wrong'' patriotism that dominated our treatment of blacks and American Indians for most of the country's history. It revealed itself in the American history of imperialism in Mexico and after the Spanish-American War in the Philippines. The ''manifest destiny'' of America was to do whatever it wanted to do, because it was strong and virtuous and chosen by God.

Today many Americans celebrate a ''strong'' leader who, like Woodrow Wilson, never wavers, never apologizes, never admits a mistake, never changes his mind, a leader with a firm ''Christian'' faith in his own righteousness. These Americans are delighted that he ignores the rest of the world and punishes the World Trade Center terrorism in Iraq. Mr. Bush is our kind of guy.

He is not another Hitler. Yet there is a certain parallelism. They have in common a demagogic appeal to the worst side of a country's heritage in a crisis. Bush is doubtless sincere in his vision of what is best for America. So too was Hitler. The crew around the president -- Donald Rumsfeld, John Ashcroft, Karl Rove, the ''neo-cons'' like Paul Wolfowitz -- are not as crazy perhaps as Himmler and Goering and Goebbels. Yet like them, they are practitioners of the Big Lie -- weapons of mass destruction, Iraq democracy, only a few ''bad apples.''

Hitler's war was quantitatively different from the Iraq war, but qualitatively both were foolish, self-destructive and criminally unjust. This is a time of great peril in American history because a phony patriotism and an America-worshipping religion threaten the authentic American genius of tolerance and respect for other people.

The ''real'' America is still remembered here in Berlin for the enormous contributions of the Marshall Plan and the Berlin airlift -- America at its best. It is time to return to that generosity and grace.

The strongest criticism that the administration levels at Sen. John Kerry is that he changes his mind. In fact, instead of a president who claims an infallibility that exceeds that of the pope, America would be much better off with a president who, like John F. Kennedy, is honest enough to admit mistakes and secure enough to change his mind.

Hitler was an evil madman.
Bush is an inept, missdirected liar.

They're really not at all alike, even if the war is unjust or rather, more appropriately, uncalled for. To compare them is like comparing an anti-semetic mad scientist to a Texas' villiage's idiot. It'd also surprise me if Bush knew what manifest destiny was.:)

HA HA HA HA! That should be in the jokes topic. ANDREW GREELEY sounds bitter and greedy. If America gave money to his country then he wouldn't write this. "America at its best. It is time to return to that generosity and grace." Sounds like he has his hand s out for free money and is not getting it.

Has the combination of the World Trade Center attack and a president who believes his instructions come from God unleashed the dark side of the American heritage?

What is this dark side? I would suggest that it is the mix of Calvinist religious righteousness and ''my-country-right-or-wrong'' patriotism that dominated our treatment of blacks and American Indians for most of the country's history. It revealed itself in the American history of imperialism in Mexico and after the Spanish-American War in the Philippines. The ''manifest destiny'' of America was to do whatever it wanted to do, because it was strong and virtuous and chosen by God..
John Calvinist religious righteousness?! I laughed so hard I cried reading that! The secularists in this world are so quick to denegrate any American president who professes a belief in God (particularly Republican) yet continue to tolerate the extreme acts of extremist muslims without a word. When a Christian even questions a faith that promotes "death to infidels" we are automatically labeled as "racist and ignorant".
America being judged by events from 100 years ago is pretty disingenuos. America today is the most racially harmonious country in the world. People still risk everything to immigrate here and if they follow a few simple rules they are welcomed. Nobody is risking their life to go to New Zealand! We also are the most generous country by far. Our foriegn-aid is shadowed by the giving of private citizens to overseas people and causes.
The "dark-side" my arse!!
America would be much better off with a president who, like John F. Kennedy, is honest enough to admit mistakes and secure enough to change his mind.

Oh, and JFK never started any "unjust wars"?!?! :sly:

Hey, JFK didn't "start" the vietnam war - o.k.? It was the Vietnamese who started it, then France got involved, France asked the U.S. to get involved, so we decided to. That JFK died before he could set any real plans for what our business there should be, was not his fault.

Hey, JFK didn't "start" the vietnam war - o.k.? It was the Vietnamese who started it, then France got involved, France asked the U.S. to get involved, so we decided to. That JFK died before he could set any real plans for what our business there should be, was not his fault.
Actually, didn't it really start when we allowed Japan to re-arm in the 50's? You must admit, JFK's response to the NVA, sending in "advisors", really did start our military involvement.

No it started shortly after Vietnam's independence from France. The North wanted communism, and the South didn't. So in 1950 the country divided in half, North and South. Eventually the Communists wanted to "liberate" the South, and the war pretty much started from there.

HA HA HA HA! That should be in the jokes topic. ANDREW GREELEY sounds bitter and greedy. If America gave money to his country then he wouldn't write this. "America at its best. It is time to return to that generosity and grace." Sounds like he has his hand s out for free money and is not getting it.

Andrew Greeley lives in Chicago.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/greeley/cst-edt-greel11.html

The article was tedious, but the short discussion about Vietnam and JFK afterwards was entertaining.

Andrew Greeley lives in Chicago.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/greeley/cst-edt-greel11.html

Well he should be kicked out of America. I did a search on him and I meant to edit that statment but I forgot. But don't you mean Father Andrew Greeley?

Why should he be kicked out of America? For disagreeing with God Emperor Bush?

:thumbsdow

Hitler was an evil madman.
Bush is an inept, missdirected liar..
Why do you post such bullshiite? When and where did he lie? At what has he been inept?

In a baseball game the pitcher, if he does well, pitches up to nine innings. He usually is kept in the game when his team is doing well and has no need to fear being pulled as long as the other team doesn't get too many hits and his team is comfortably leading.

In Iraq we have a comfortable lead and we are still in the VERY EARLY innings. Bush is pitching just fine. There is no need to pull our pitcher. I do wish, however, that we would get a few more runs and bury our opponent so we can get on with the post game celebrations and shut up the arm chair managers watching from the comfort of their living rooms.

Why do you post such bullshiite? When and where did he lie? At what has he been inept?



Answer one..WMD

Answer two.The Iraq campaign.

:rolleyes:

He never lied. ...and the game aint over.

BTW if they NEVER find WMD....being wrong is NOT lying! (unless of course things are THAT different in liberal Bush-hating minds)

He never lied. ...and the game aint over.

BTW if they NEVER find WMD....being wrong is NOT lying!

Keep dreaming,if it comforts you. :disappoin

http://www.bushlies.com/topten.php

Take note of lie number two.

Nothing partisan about that site at all :rolleyes:

being wrong is not lying, true....

ill say it again, powell admited that evidence provided to the UN about WMD was intentionally misleading and sometimes overtly wrong.

thats a really nice, PC, way to say "we lied, and we knew it"

Nothing partisan about that site at all :rolleyes:

Do you really expect me to find that information on a Republican site?:grinno:

Here's a quote from Dubbya.

"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."

Leaves no doubt? Come on....please:rolleyes: Bush had been told categorically by the U.N. weapons inspectors that no evidence of WMD manufacture or stockpiles.So ,to say "no doubt" either implies that Bush is either incredibly dense and one eyed,or is an outright lie about WMD

Either way,he's not fit to lead a Boy Scout troop.

Do you really expect me to find that information on a Republican site?:grinno:

Here's a quote from Dubbya.

"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."

Leaves no doubt? Come on....please:rolleyes: Bush had been told categorically by the U.N. weapons inspectors that no evidence of WMD manufacture or stockpiles.So ,to say "no doubt" either implies that Bush is either incredibly dense and one eyed,or is an outright lie about WMD

Either way,he's not fit to lead a Boy Scout troop.

If Bush was relying on data given to him by government agencies from America and other countries when he stated this then its not a lie. Time to get over it and move on. Is it ok for Kerry to make a mistake and not Bush? Can you prove Bush knew it was a lie if not then move on.

did you miss my post above?

they knew they were lying...powell said so

If Bush was relying on data given to him by government agencies from America and other countries when he stated this then its not a lie.

You deliberately miss the point again.Bush had a shitload of intelligence from a variety of sources,ranging from coutries with a vested interest in starting conflict,to UN weapons inspectors on the ground in Iraq,trying to keep the peace.The information ranged from a university student's flawed thesis tha Saddam had huge stocks of WMD's, to the UN's position that they had sent hundreds of inspectors to thousands of sites and found no evidence whatsoever of unauthorised activity.

For Bush to claim that the information was not open to interpretation,and to imply that Saddam definitely had huge stockpiles of chemical,biological and/or nuclear weapons lined up ready to strike at the heart of America was a blatant,obvious,and incredibly stupid lie.

And if the Oval Office were yours, how would you have run things?

Edit: run things after 9/11, mainly.

The U.N. was led on a several wild goose chases when they were searching Iraq for WMD's. And denied access to many areas.

Since we are on the topic of lies how about this site?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38535

I found this quote to be entertaining!

“I do not fault George Bush for doing too much
in the war on terror;
I believe he’s done too little.”
(JohnKerry, 27th February 2004)

http://www.sandersresearch.com/Sanders/NewsManager/ShowNewsGen.aspx?NewsID=577

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/3/18/85900.shtml

And the best for last! Read Kerry's speech before the Iraq conflict and what he is saying now.

http://www.mattmargolis.com/blog/index.php/archives/2004/06/17/john-kerry-lies-about-reasons-for-going-to-iraq/

yup, both major party canidates suck.

proving one wrong does not prove the other right.

i think we've established that

yup, both major party canidates suck.

proving one wrong does not prove the other right.

i think we've established that

But you have to go with one don't you?

Answer one..WMD

Answer two.The Iraq campaign.

:rolleyes:
Love your "selective" outrage. However, you've got a short memory. Clinton and the gang were all convinced that Iraq had WMD, the UN was convinced that Iraq had WMD. The Kurds in Iraq were the recipients of the non-existant WMDs. Clinton was convinced that it was only a matter of time before Iraq fixed the terrorists up with WMD. Tony Blair is convinced that Iraq had WMDs. The only thing Bush is guilty of - is underestimating the size and complexity of the task at hand.

Regards:
Oldengineer