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Do you think CART and the IRL should merge back together


VR6ERS
05-14-2001, 01:34 PM
I say make it one league again, it will just be an increase in the field of cars which will make the competition in the race that much better. What do you think? :thinkerg:

DVSNCYNIKL
05-14-2001, 01:37 PM
Merge together, they packed as it is. I think they need better television coverage though!

i_rebel
05-15-2001, 04:05 PM
Hell no,

They should remain seperate.

P10DET
07-11-2001, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by VR6ERS
I say make it one league again, it will just be an increase in the field of cars which will make the competition in the race that much better. What do you think? :thinkerg:

Shoot, I think CART should adopt the IRL rules package, go to their races, and kick their @$$.

The CART teams would dominate and put the IRL out of business.

Tony George is [CENSORED].

Of course, CART seems to be trying to destroy itself in the last year.

vectorclub
11-01-2001, 08:14 PM
CART needs to distant itself from the IRL. At one time CART was reaching F1 levels. The IRL is like the Toyota Atlantic series. Why pull a major league series down to a minor league one. They only do ovals in the IRL. Even NASCAR has two road races. CART should quit slowing their cars down. Make CART racers more powerful then anything racing on road courses. Let IRL spin around the ovals in their econo racers.

Tony George does suck for making the Indy 500 just another IRL race. No longer can you say the field is made up of the fastest racers because IRL teams get slots given to them.

P10DET
11-08-2001, 06:57 AM
Originally posted by vectorclub
CART needs to distant itself from the IRL. At one time CART was reaching F1 levels. The IRL is like the Toyota Atlantic series. Why pull a major league series down to a minor league one. They only do ovals in the IRL. Even NASCAR has two road races. CART should quit slowing their cars down. Make CART racers more powerful then anything racing on road courses. Let IRL spin around the ovals in their econo racers.

Tony George does suck for making the Indy 500 just another IRL race. No longer can you say the field is made up of the fastest racers because IRL teams get slots given to them.

Unfortunately, CART is taking every opportunity to screw up these days. Even Roger Penske is swithing to the IRL. I'm beginning to think that CART is done for. That sucks. Within 2 years they have totally self destructed.

About the only hope they have now is to adopt IRL rules. Shoot, with all the international races, the North American fans aren't going to care much about CART anymore. Sure the hard core will (like me), but the casual and fringe fan will not.

The only other hope they have is to sack Heitzler and hire Chris Pook as CEO.

vectorclub
11-08-2001, 09:39 AM
CART has offended all the engine manuafctures. I can't believe they turned down Ford's foffer after they made Honda, Toyota, and Merceds mad. Hope my come with the return of Maserati to America. Maybe they coul dconvince FIAT to compete in CART. The only catch will be the influence of FIATs new partner Nissan. CART might try pulling Mitsubishi in to the series.

CART has some tough yeras before. If I was with CART I would start a public image campaign. They need to remind America why their cars and their series is better.

They may need NASCAR style PR races like the Budweiser race that features a 3 segment race with prize money for each segment. I think it is the American Le Mans Series (IMSA again) that gives points for teams promoting the series. CART should offer the same thing to teams.

Porsche did compete in CART many years ago. This could be a great time tobring them back in. BMW also could make a good engine supplier. I really believe if Penske and Chip would not have gone to Indy that the IRL would be closer to failure. Now that they are going to do the whole IRL series it could help them. AJ Foyt can't be happy to see these guys coming into the series. CART teams will squash most IRL teams.

P10DET
11-09-2001, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by vectorclub
CART has offended all the engine manuafctures. I can't believe they turned down Ford's foffer after they made Honda, Toyota, and Merceds mad.

I can. They don't want to become a spec series. That would make them a bigger joke than the IRL.

Originally posted by vectorclub
Hope my come with the return of Maserati to America. Maybe they coul dconvince FIAT to compete in CART. The only catch will be the influence of FIATs new partner Nissan. CART might try pulling Mitsubishi in to the series.

They need to do something. BTW, Fiat and Nissan are not partners. Nissan is now owned by Renault.

Originally posted by vectorclub
Porsche did compete in CART many years ago. This could be a great time tobring them back in.

I hate to say this, but unless it is based upon a 911, Porsche Motorsports sucks dead bears through a garden hose. Their CART effort not only sucked, but they got a great sponsor to come on board only to abandon the effort at the end of the season. BTW, I have a great photo of the two Porsche powered Marches at Mid-Ohio in the rain from the final season. :) They toyed with getting into F1 and stepped on their Johnson. Their last good effort that was not 911 based (even the 956 and 962 had a 911 based engine) was the TAG engine McLaren used in the early 80's and that was not really a Porsche effort, but rather they engineered it for TAG.

Originally posted by vectorclub
BMW also could make a good engine supplier.

They have all their resources into F1. They won't be doing CART.

Originally posted by vectorclub
I really believe if Penske and Chip would not have gone to Indy that the IRL would be closer to failure. Now that they are going to do the whole IRL series it could help them.

I have not heard that Ganassi will be doing the full IRL schedule. Penske is changing series, but Ganassi is staying.

vectorclub
11-09-2001, 11:11 AM
BTW, Fiat and Nissan are not partners. Nissan is now owned by Renault.

Renault and Nissan bought stakes in each company and if all goes well they will become as one, but this sounds like a partnership at the moment. Judging by the news I have seen, such as ....

Tuesday, 30 October, 2001, 11:15 GMT
Nissan and Renault cement ties


Ghosn: Swift turnaround for Nissan

Japan's Nissan Motor and Renault of France will increase the stakes they hold in each other to strengthen their alliance.
The move highlights the Japanese carmaker's confidence in its turnaround from years of losses to record profits.


They have all their resources into F1. They won't be doing CART.

How do you know hwta BMW will do over the next ten years. Mercedes was doing F12 and then went into CART. BMW could do the same.



I hate to say this, but unless it is based upon a 911, Porsche Motorsports sucks dead bears through a garden hose. Their CART effort not only sucked, but they got a great sponsor to come on board only to abandon the effort at the end of the season. BTW, I have a great photo of the two Porsche powered Marches at Mid-Ohio in the rain from the final season. They toyed with getting into F1 and stepped on their Johnson. Their last good effort that was not 911 based (even the 956 and 962 had a 911 based engine) was the TAG engine McLaren used in the early 80's and that was not really a Porsche effort, but rather they engineered it for TAG.

I would not rule Porsche out. Toyota showed how a pattern of going from CART to F1. If Porsche decided to make an F1 effort, they might first do CART. That is if CART does not screw the series up more. If Porsche can make SUvs, then they can try CART again!:D

P10DET
11-20-2001, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by vectorclub
Renault and Nissan bought stakes in each company and if all goes well they will become as one, but this sounds like a partnership at the moment. Judging by the news I have seen, such as ....


Renault bought a 30 or 33% stake in Nissan, which by Japanese law, gives Renault control of Nissan. Renault owns Nissan. Period.

Originally posted by vectorclub
How do you know hwta BMW will do over the next ten years. Mercedes was doing F12 and then went into CART. BMW could do the same.


F12?

Actually, IIRC, Mercedes was doing CART before they got back into F1. Now they are out of CART. BMW is not very likely to run CART. Being involved in F1 consumes too many resources. Ford and Toyota are the only companies doing both at the present time, but Toyota is going to the IRL (yuck). They may supply CART, but they have not made that decision yet. BMW has never expressed an interest in CART and with the way CART is self-destructing, I cannot imagine them considering it.

Originally posted by vectorclub
I would not rule Porsche out. Toyota showed how a pattern of going from CART to F1. If Porsche decided to make an F1 effort, they might first do CART.


Well, Porsche did do CART and they sucked. Then they designed an F1 engine and it sucked. Don't expect Porsche to enter either arena. They aren't even supporting sports cars except to sell privateer turn-key cars.

Originally posted by vectorclub
If Porsche can make SUvs, then they can try CART again!:D

And sheep can fly. I know it's true because I saw it on Monte Python.

NSX
12-20-2001, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by P10DET
Renault bought a 30 or 33% stake in Nissan, which by Japanese law, gives Renault control of Nissan. Renault owns Nissan. Period.

really? I didn't know that. CART needs one more major supplier, I'm guessing Honda is going to pull out of CART soon because of the entire fiasco.

vectorclub
12-20-2001, 11:56 AM
At this rate CART will have to use lawn mower engines since they blew it with all the automotive engine manufactures!:D

P10DET
12-20-2001, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by vectorclub
At this rate CART will have to use lawn mower engines since they blew it with all the automotive engine manufactures!:D

Well, they finally did something right todayl.....

They hired Chris Pook to run the bloody thing.

NSX
12-21-2001, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by P10DET


Well, they finally did something right todayl.....

They hired Chris Pook to run the bloody thing.

really?
what experience has he had? what's his position right now?

P10DET
12-29-2001, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by NSX
really?
what experience has he had? what's his position right now?

Well, for one thing he is the guy behind the Long Beach Grand Prix. I mean going back to the original Formula 5000 race in the 70s. He is well liked and well respected in the industry.

They should have hired him last year instead of that clown Heitzler.

NSX
01-07-2002, 10:14 AM
hm...i dont really keep track of indy..but GO PLAYERS PLAYLIFE!
carpantier is wicked!

Hamann
07-15-2002, 05:23 AM
Of course they should merge.
That would be the best thing to do for both series, which would have a broader audience and become more competitive and exciting. Besides that, I also think they should have a schedule with 20 races, 10 on ovals in the US, 10 races on road circuits.

z33guy
07-02-2003, 12:46 AM
i wish they would merge and divide the series up between oval, street and road courses. Have the irl engines but with a higher rev limiter and add more cars to the line up. But Tony George wants to see cart DIE and he will accept nothing less. So we wont see a merger in the near future and nascar will continue to run away with its cash, sponsors, tv deals and whatever else.

fordjay16
07-10-2003, 08:48 PM
IRL and CaRT are both great racing leagues but if they want to survive they must unite to fight nascar. i like nascar 1st but if cart and irl unite i'd like that better. you would have ford and chevy in another series together. btw what ever happened to trac? it was a series cal yarborough was trying to start but i think it just fell apart:confused:

gnasha
08-20-2003, 03:59 AM
Actually it seem that they going to separate it even more as it seem that only one oval race will stay next season and they will also remove some european races which is a shame i think as it will reduce the audience. I must admit I discovered CART not so long ago as it is a pain to find it on tv if u don't have cable or sattelite and guess what... loved it. At long last some breath-taking overtaking manouver. At the moment in F1, Montoya is one of the rarest driver to pull out some of those moves we all like to see... hum wonder where he was racing before coming to F1....

z33guy
08-20-2003, 07:34 AM
I hope cart takes this offer for .50 a share and build the series back up. I heard dario might be coming back, but they could lose PT. The people that made the offer to take over the series are great in motorsports so the recipe for good things are there.

Veyron
08-20-2003, 12:12 PM
I don't see a merge, Tony's dream is to make the IRL an open wheel NASCAR success, it isn't going to happen, so in effect he put both series on a slippery slope when he instigated the split. The TV, all other sponsor monies, and audience has beem split between two open wheel series when one open wheel series was already taking a back seat to NASCAR anyway. It's a big mess and there is no easy fix, a merge isn't the answer IMO.

CART has their own mistakes to answer for, I'm not laying it all on Tony, but he set things in motion. Sad. :rolleyes:

z33guy
08-20-2003, 01:56 PM
I don't see a merge, Tony's dream is to make the IRL an open wheel NASCAR success, it isn't going to happen, so in effect he put both series on a slippery slope when he instigated the split. The TV, all other sponsor monies, and audience has beem split between two open wheel series when one open wheel series was already taking a back seat to NASCAR anyway. It's a big mess and there is no easy fix, a merge isn't the answer IMO.

CART has their own mistakes to answer for, I'm not laying it all on Tony, but he set things in motion. Sad. :rolleyes:
werd, tony's plan has always been the death of cart. And nascar was doing ok before the split, but open wheel numbers were as good or sometimes better (indy, michigan, long beach). Everyone that didnt like the split suddenly became a jeff gordon or dale sr fan. But your right, cart has made a ton of mistakes, and with the sponsor economy the way it is, i hope that can make it.

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