Tuned 4/6cyl vs V8

Ive always been curious how a 4 or 6cyl with less HP can hang with beefy V8s (besides the weight factor). I dont wanna sound stupid, because I know theres a ton of factors involved, but it always fascinates me to see a 4 or 6 hang with or even smoke V8's when you would think V8s are unstoppable. Can someone explain whats behind the whole idea of a 'tuned 4cyl' etc and what makes them work so well? Also, would you rather have a 300 hp I4, 6cyl, or V8. What I am trying to get at here is what the actual differences between the WRX STi, Turbo Supra and a beefy V8 like a Cobra are , when they all have around the same HP. One last thing, can someon explain compression ratios. Thanks and hope this all makes sense!

Tuned 4 cyls are usually loaded with technology. DOHC, evo is running twin yrubos and 4wd, rally brd tech etc. 6 cylinders are a little closer to v8's in that they have medium size displacements but once again they are loaded with tech. DOHC, supra runs twin turbos and a getrag transmission.

V8's follow the old american formula: there is no replacement for displacement. The lS1 is a rather low tech OHV v8 still running on pushrods. It's large displacement however allows it to generate massive amounts of torque and power.

evo is running twin yrubos and 4wd

EVOs only have one turbo. I don't understand what you mean by tuned 4 cylinder/6 cylinder, are you talking a modified car vs. stock ones, then that is not really fair. This thread is just going to beat a dead horse and cause much drama. You have to be more specific, what do you mean when you say hang, are you talking at a drag strip, or on a race track, or on the freeway. Also people it's time we start to update all our old theories, with today's technology, the old theories that were the norm for back in the day, do not come into play most of the time anymore. For example the old, AWD cars lose alot more power to the wheels, please then why are EVOs dynoing between 230AWHP to 250AWHP, in fact a 230AWHP EVO is considered a weak one. STIs have been dynoing between 250AWHP to 260AWHP. Also the whole displacement is the only way to make more power, then please explain Veilside and there street legal 1,360HP Skyline, I'm sure it was stroked to 2.8L-3.0L, still compared to 4.6L-5.7L it's small, but still making 1,360HP. Please find me a STREET LEGAL V8 or V10 making the same power, and if you do, which you may, I'll go ahead and find you 5 or 6 more 1,000HP STREET LEGAL Skylines.

if were talking 1000hp v8's compared to 1000hp skylines then you can find lots of lingenfelter corvettes at 1000hp. there were 2 of them in the dupont registry a few months ago

What I mean by tuned is, example, the Type R integra is tuned unlike the LS or RS models, and obviously the WRX is tuned whereas the regular Impreza is not race inspired. I guess I meant more that tuned is meant for racing etc. Make sense? Hope that makes it clear.

Please find me a STREET LEGAL V8 or V10 making the same power, and if you do, which you may, I'll go ahead and find you 5 or 6 more 1,000HP STREET LEGAL Skylines.

1000hp Street Legal Skyline? They can do that while still obeying emissions regulations? Please, show me some...

The amount of 1000hp Vipers is fairly large. I don't think there are many 1000hp Vettes simply because the LS1 wasn't designed to take huge power and anyone looking for that kind of power will usually go to a different engine choice.

1000hp Street Legal Skyline? They can do that while still obeying emissions regulations? Please, show me some...

The amount of 1000hp Vipers is fairly large. I don't think there are many 1000hp Vettes simply because the LS1 wasn't designed to take huge power and anyone looking for that kind of power will usually go to a different engine choice.

The point is that's it's not just about replacement when it comes to making power, the Skyline clearly illustrates this. Also so do the many 800 to 1000HP Supras.

http://www.superstreetonline.com/featuredvehicles/32699/

Sorry about the mistake with the evo's, also I said that the american v8's are built around the displacement Idea. I didn't say it was the only way to make power, nor did I say I believe in it..

The point is that's it's not just about replacement when it comes to making power, the Skyline clearly illustrates this. Also so do the many 800 to 1000HP Supras.

http://www.superstreetonline.com/featuredvehicles/32699/

Ahh, the point was unclear considering you fully capitalized "street legal". Too many people oversimply the whole "No replacement for displacement" mantra. Large amounts of torque high up in the rev range creates large power. The RB26DETT revs high and creates a large amount of torque with a large turbo. Purely elementary. Vipers create monstrous amounts of torque but don't rev quite as high(which is due to a mulitude of factors, ie: stroke length and pushrod design). Two different philosophies, one is not faster than another.

Ok, you guys may thing I am biased, which I am... ok, power is a function of Force and Time. The more force, the more power, in less time, more power. So speed is also a factor. So what would you rather have... a 300HP engines that makes it's power by reving to 10,000 or a 300HP motor that only goes to 6000 but has double the torque.
Two guys, the first on, it takes him a little while, but he benches 350lb. In that same time, this other guy benches 150lb. several times... do the equations, they both have the same power output, but who would you rather be? I like my car the same.

but you can't use that logic with engines. because if a person can bench 350 lbs once, then the he should be able to bench 150 a good amount more then several times.

sure the large engine can make it lower down. but think of the extra weight of the pistons and rods, and crank. the way to get v8's to make massive power is to rev them to around 8K or 8.5 K. those engines are designed to only rev to 6-6.5K so the increased engine speed with heavier rotating parts makes it just as stressfull to make big power as it does with a smaller engine using boost.

but you can't use that logic with engines. because if a person can bench 350 lbs once, then the he should be able to bench 150 a good amount more then several times.

sure the large engine can make it lower down. but think of the extra weight of the pistons and rods, and crank. Not neccesarily true.the way to get v8's to make massive power is to rev them to around 8K or 8.5 K. I think you meant to say "The way naturally aspirated V8s will make a high specific output is by revving to 8K." Currently the LS6 can get to 470rwhp in naturally aspirated form, in street trim. Is that not considered massive power? If you want to talk about boost, there is no reason that larger displacement engines can't use boost as well. those engines are designed to only rev to 6-6.5K so the increased engine speed with heavier rotating parts makes it just as stressfull to make big power as it does with a smaller engine using boost.A supercharged Viper engine can make 600rwhp without breaking a sweat. That's the MAX lower displacement engines can get with non-race fuel.
...

well this was sorta a continuation of the last debate we had. but yes a n/a v8 will making more power saver then a turbo 4. however a turboed 6 like the supra will be more safer then a n/a 8. hp for hp.

[QUOTE=Mr Payne]Ahh, the point was unclear considering you fully capitalized "street legal". QUOTE]

The car I linked you to is street legal, well in Japan it is.

[QUOTE=Mr Payne]Ahh, the point was unclear considering you fully capitalized "street legal". QUOTE]

The car I linked you to is street legal, well in Japan it is.

I didn't read street legal anywhere in the article. Perhaps you could quote it?

Displacement is a good thing. A v8 is basically 2 inline 4 engines.

The creme of the crop v8s are usually found in high end cars and exotics. Just look at the SL55 and it's big brother the SLR. Ferrari and Lamborgini both commonly use v8s. Cost is the main reason why alot of manufacturers make 4 bangers. It's much cheaper to make a 4 banger and boost the hell out of it. Making a v8 with the equivalent amount of technolgy probably cost near twice as much.

Most people won't want to hear this, but most 4 bangers won't hang with its v8 equivalent. Take the pushrod 2 liter engine from a cavalier, it won't be beating on a LS1. Take a 4G63t (arguably one of the best turbocharge 4 bangers) from an EVO and compare it to another 4 valve force induction engine like the one in the SLR (626 hp stock). When the level of technology in the engine is equivavlent, displacement almost becomes the sole deciding factor.

Lamborghini don't anymore, they've not used a V8 for over a decade. They predominantly use V12's and the Gallardo uses a V10.


Anyway as for the V8 debate, mods'll be mods, but a GTR or Supra is just as easy to turn into a streetable 9/10 second car as anything else out there.

Show me a top fuel dragster that doesn't use at least a V8.

Production cars can only put down so much power. There is a point where having more power doesn't help much. That's why a 800hp supra and a 1200 hp diablo can run similar times. With the ability to put down power more effectively, like on a dragster. THe power difference is much more apparent.

I don't get this freaking small engine is good mentality. Stop looking at the world through narrow JDM elitist glasses. The Japanese aren't even close to making the world best cars. There are many more manufacturers out ther, and most supercars are coming out of Europe. ANd just because it is out of most of our price ranges, it doesn't mean that they don't exist.

hmmm.......Of course Europe make the best supercars. Japan have only ever made a few: The NSX, the Supra Twin Turbo and the Skyline GTR V Spec. I have always acknowledged that Supercars are Europes domain.

HOWEVER small engines ARE good, they can Rev higher without running a rough idle (like a high revving big-block V8 usually does) and are lighter (usually), thus making them better to use if you want a Front-engined circuit car (Like I do), they can usually respond pretty well to modifications (Not as well as big blocks, but still reasonably well).

As for top fuel dragsters....Couldn't care any less, I hate drag racing it's an insult to a corner-carver like myself.

Displacement is a good thing. A v8 is basically 2 inline 4 engines.

The creme of the crop v8s are usually found in high end cars and exotics. Just look at the SL55 and it's big brother the SLR. Ferrari and Lamborgini both commonly use v8s. Cost is the main reason why alot of manufacturers make 4 bangers. It's much cheaper to make a 4 banger and boost the hell out of it. Making a v8 with the equivalent amount of technolgy probably cost near twice as much.

Most people won't want to hear this, but most 4 bangers won't hang with its v8 equivalent. Take the pushrod 2 liter engine from a cavalier, it won't be beating on a LS1. Take a 4G63t (arguably one of the best turbocharge 4 bangers) from an EVO and compare it to another 4 valve force induction engine like the one in the SLR (626 hp stock). When the level of technology in the engine is equivavlent, displacement almost becomes the sole deciding factor.

Don't get me wrong, I know displacement makes it much easier to gain large amounts of power, but I just wanted people to know that now of days you can make big horsepower with smaller engines. As far as your 4G63T comparo to the SLR (by the way the SLR is my dream car so I'm not bashing it) I have no idea what you are trying to say, are you saying the EVO can't hit the same levels, ok wrong,
Turbo Trix EVO- 550AWHP
AMS EVO- 600AWHP
Boost Solutions EVO- 600AWHP
Dyno Flash EVO 550AWHP
There are many others, by the end of the summer there may be up to 10 EVOs in running in the 10s.

The Japanese aren't even close to making the world best cars.

I hate to say this, but neighter are us Americans (please don't bring up aftermarket companies like Lingenfelter) the Europeans are way ahead.

Show me a top fuel dragster that doesn't use at least a V8.

Production cars can only put down so much power. There is a point where having more power doesn't help much. That's why a 800hp supra and a 1200 hp diablo can run similar times.

As far as Top Fuel Dragster, it's not about they can't use a smaller engine, it's more about the mentality of that they don't want to use a smaller than a V8, sort of like, this is how it always has been why should things change. Don't get WONT mixed up with CANT.

Nothing wrong with more power, more power has never been a bad thing sorry, who ever told you more power doesn't help was wrong. Now your getting things mixed up, if two different cars one 800HP and one 1200HP run similiar times in the 1/4 mile it can be a number of factors, such as tuning, say the 800HP car could have been tuned for drag racing and the 1200HP tuned for top speed. Also there are things called bad tunes, and quality tunes. I believe the EVO is a perfect example, there are right now a lot of EVOs making a lot of power and aiming for the 10s, the first one to hit the 10s was Turbo Trix, who's EVO doesn't even make as much power as a lot of those other EVOs, just great freaking tuning. The point is more horsepower does help, but there are a lot of factors. Say for instance that drag car with 800HP went up against another drag car with 1200HP, I'm sure the 800HP car would have his ass handed to him.

I hate to say this, but neighter are us Americans (please don't bring up aftermarket companies like Lingenfelter) the Europeans are way ahead.

For the price point American vehicles are the best (performing), stock. (Well, at least from a major manufacturer...Z06, Viper, Ford GT)

For the price point American vehicles are the best (performing), stock. (Well, at least from a major manufacturer...Z06, Viper, Ford GT)

Yeah and you also get what you pay for. American vehicle quality sucks compared to Japanese and Europeans. Which is why I would spend more money for a import car just for the quality and reliability factor.
But hey, its a free country and you can get whatever you like.

cars with smaller engines, or 4 cylinders, are usually lighter too, so they dont need to make as much power as some cars with v8s to get the same times.

For the price point American vehicles are the best (performing), stock. (Well, at least from a major manufacturer...Z06, Viper, Ford GT)

Don't get quantity mixed up with quality, just because japanese manufactuers haven't created alot of big V8 sport cars doesn't mean they can't and if they did I firmly believe they would do it better. Just look at where the Japanese spend most of their money on, the 4-Cylinder and 6-Cylinder, they completely dominate that segment. Even the few V8's that the Japanese do make and sell in the United States are class leaders compared to their class competetion.

Don't get quantity mixed up with quality, just because japanese manufactuers haven't created alot of big V8 sport cars doesn't mean they can't and if they did I firmly believe they would do it better. Just look at where the Japanese spend most of their money on, the 4-Cylinder and 6-Cylinder, they completely dominate that segment. Even the few V8's that the Japanese do make and sell in the United States are class leaders compared to their class competetion.

I don't care what type of engine they have. As of right now the American manufacturers rule in all around performance. The Z06, Viper, and the GT leave no one doubting on who makes the fastest vehicles for those price points. However, the EVO/STi/Elise dominate the market which leads to the Z06. I like most consumers, judge the product within the price range I'm shopping in. Unlike most, in reference to cars, do not pay attention to cylinder configuration or displacement, assuming horsepower, torque and all other variables are equal.

Yeah and you also get what you pay for. American vehicle quality sucks compared to Japanese and Europeans. Which is why I would spend more money for a import car just for the quality and reliability factor.
But hey, its a free country and you can get whatever you like.

http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/images/2003050a.gif

I'll focus on the Z06 because it will make your argument all the more ludicrious.

Porsche - The only thing you can get within the price range of a Z06 is a Boxster...you'd really get that over a Z06? Simply the straightline acceleration alone dwarfs the Boxster, that's not even mentioning grip.
Toyota - Don't even have a fast sports car.
Honda - S2K vs. Z06? Please, don't embarass yourself. NSX vs. Z06? Even better, The Z06 gets a 30K cost advantage over the NSX and STILL cleans its clock.
Nissan - 350Z vs. Z06? Still rapeage, but getting better I suppose. Your reliability will be comforting when you're pulling those .92G's & 14 second 1/4 miles.
BMW - M3 vs. Z06? Still rapeage, slightly less than the 350Z, but the M is still seeing tail lights.
General Motors - Oh wait, the maker of the Z06. 6th best ain't great I suppose. Not bad though. It's so easy to argue for the Z06 because it truly is the BEST car available in that price range (can EASILY be gotten for ~45K new).

So basically your argument is this: you'll pay "more" money for a vehicle which is costs more than a Z06 for the extra reliability. What vehicle would that be? Every car in remotely that price range gets owned...

Even the few V8's that the Japanese do make and sell in the United States are class leaders compared to their class competetion.

:eek7: :screwy:

Lets compare shall we.
Toyota
4.7-liter DOHC 32-valve EFI
i-FORCE V8
240 hp @ 4,800 rpm;
315 lb.-ft. @ 3,400 rpm

Nissan
Endurance 5.6-liter DOHC 32-valve V8 engine
305 hp @ 4,900 rpm
379 lb-ft.@ 3,600 rpm

Lexus
4.7-liter, four-cam, 32-valve 90º V8 engine.
235 hp @ 4,800 rpm,
320 lb-ft.@ 3,400 rpm

Decent enginesso far

Cadillac
6.0-liter H.O. Vortec 6000 V8 :
345 horsepower and
380 lb-ft torque

Chevrolet
E85 Vortec 5300 V8
295 hp at 5200 rpm.
330 lb.-ft. of torque at 4000 rpm

Vortec 6000 V8 Engine
325 hp at 5200 rpm
365 lb.-ft. of torque at 4000 rpm

Big Block Vortec 8100 V8 Engine
320 hp at 5000 rpm.
440 lb.-ft. of torque at 3200 rpm.

LS1
Horsepower 350 @ 5200
Torque 375 @ 4400

LS6
Horsepower 405 @ 6000
Torque 400 lb.-ft. @ 4800

LS2
400 horsepower at 6000 rpm
400 lb.-ft. of torque at 4400 rpm

Hmmm, seems the american v8s are better despite geing "pushrod relics"(nissanus.com)

I see all the sides to the argument if you ask me. The Japanese vehicles are definately high quality.. You can't complain after getting as much power as you do from a smaller engine. The only American engine that is starting to come anywhere near Japanese 4 cylinders is the Ecotec.. Thats still a bit away if you ask me. As far as supercars, yes Europe definately has the crown in that category. I have yet to see any Japanese car truly worthy of the name "Supercar" except maybe the Skyline GTR V Spec. I would say American car makers are starting to catch up a bit with the Ford Gt..which puts up amazing numbers on the track. With the Saleen S7, and the Mosler Photon. I think still the bang for the buck does go to American vehicles. What in the 50k or below range will really hang with the Z06 stock? Im sure there are quite a few that will give it a run.. But regardless they will still see taillights. (On a road course or a drag strip.) What about in the 100k range? What puts up better numbers than the Dodge Viper? 150k? Ford GT? I dont think cars hitting 200+ will out perform the Ford GT if you ask me. So it all comes down to what you prefer. Where the biases are... Or what you are looking for out of a car... 35k and below is where you hit Japanese, Evo territory for instance. Just my two cents I guess. I think there is something wonderful in cars.. no matter where they are from. (This coming from someone who has owns an Infiniti.. has plans to buy a new Corvette, and has owned a Lotus, and a BMW.) As long as the competition keeps up.. theres nothing but great things coming for all of us from all continents.

an M3 would see tail lights of the ZO6? haha oh really, ok
according to www.car-stats.com....
2002 Z06 0-60: 4.1
2002 M3: 4.7

1/4 mile?
ZO6: 12.5
M3: 13.2

HUGE difference there eh? and thats with the M3 giving up about 75 HP
yes i would pay the SAME price for an M3 that will hang with a ZO6 on the strip and kill it on the back roads, all while having the BMW refinement and quality that is lacking in the ZO6.
both are fast but my point is, if I'm payin 50k, I dont want it going to the shop every other week....



*

The LS1 and GM drivetrains have proven relatively reliable (Aside from a thirst for oil). Yes the interior quality on the Z06 (Like most American makers) is terrible and exterior fittings aren't much better- but the Z06 is by no means a car that constantly requires urgent attention- you curse at it for the cheap plastics, but the drivelines are allright.

BMW have never had a flawless reliability reputation either- a select few M3's had engines blowing up when they first came out, for example- that's been fixed now, but I doubt many people found that very funny back in 2001.

Though I am more partial to the M3 over the Z06, the Z06 is a case of get what you pay for- You're getting a very fast car, but you're paying for something that's cheap in all other respects.

However with the M3, you are paying for a car that is also very fast (if not as fast as the Z06), that is well built, technology-loaded and uses a decent quality of material.

:eek7: :screwy:

Lets compare shall we.
Toyota
4.7-liter DOHC 32-valve EFI
i-FORCE V8
240 hp @ 4,800 rpm;
315 lb.-ft. @ 3,400 rpm

Nissan
Endurance 5.6-liter DOHC 32-valve V8 engine
305 hp @ 4,900 rpm
379 lb-ft.@ 3,600 rpm

Lexus
4.7-liter, four-cam, 32-valve 90º V8 engine.
235 hp @ 4,800 rpm,
320 lb-ft.@ 3,400 rpm

Decent enginesso far

Cadillac
6.0-liter H.O. Vortec 6000 V8 :
345 horsepower and
380 lb-ft torque

Chevrolet
E85 Vortec 5300 V8
295 hp at 5200 rpm.
330 lb.-ft. of torque at 4000 rpm

Vortec 6000 V8 Engine
325 hp at 5200 rpm
365 lb.-ft. of torque at 4000 rpm

Big Block Vortec 8100 V8 Engine
320 hp at 5000 rpm.
440 lb.-ft. of torque at 3200 rpm.

LS1
Horsepower 350 @ 5200
Torque 375 @ 4400

LS6
Horsepower 405 @ 6000
Torque 400 lb.-ft. @ 4800

LS2
400 horsepower at 6000 rpm
400 lb.-ft. of torque at 4400 rpm

Hmmm, seems the american v8s are better despite geing "pushrod relics"(nissanus.com)

Look stupid, I said for their class? Your comparing truck engines to sport cars? Ok smart ass? Like I already said or did your bias ass miss that, the Japanese don't make as many V8s as the Americans, but just because they don't make as many doesn't mean they can't. I firmly believe a Nissan decided to make a 405HP V8 sports car it would be better than yes the Corvette ZO6.

Let's compare shall we-

2004 Nissan Titan-$30,000-$34,000
5.6L
305HP
379TQ

Competetion-

2004 Ford F-150 (No Lightning)- $27,000-$36,000
5.4L
300HP
365TQ

2004 Dodge Ram (No SRT)- $29,000-$40,000
5.7L
345HP
375TQ

2004 Chevrolet Silverado- $30,000-$40,000
6.0L
300HP
360TQ

2004 GMC Sierra- $30,000-$40,000
6.0L
300HP
360TQ

Next...

2004 Lexus GS430- $47,000
4.8L
300HP
325TQ

2004 Infiniti M45- $43,00
4.5L
340HP
333TQ

Competetion-

2004 BMW 545I- $55,000
4.4L
325HP
330TQ

2004 Cadillac Deville- $46,000
4.6L
275HP
300TQ

2004 Cadillac Seville- $50,000
4.6L
275HP
300TQ

2004 Lincoln LS- $45,000
4.6L
239HP
287TQ

Shall I continue on, maybe you should re-read what I typed, cuz I cleary stated class leaders or (atleast up there with class leaders) and you comparing $50,000+ escalades to $30,000 trucks certainly isn't fair and certainly are not in the same class now are they? I mean the only thing your crappy disorganized comparison proved was that American manufactuers make more V8s, which I already stated was the case.

good stuff 3000 i was about to prove that guy wrong also, doesn't know how to compare for crap

an M3 would see tail lights of the ZO6? haha oh really, ok
according to www.car-stats.com....
2002 Z06 0-60: 4.1
2002 M3: 4.7

1/4 mile?
ZO6: 12.5
M3: 13.2

HUGE difference there eh? and thats with the M3 giving up about 75 HP
yes i would pay the SAME price for an M3 that will hang with a ZO6 on the strip and kill it on the back roads, all while having the BMW refinement and quality that is lacking in the ZO6.
both are fast but my point is, if I'm payin 50k, I dont want it going to the shop every other week....



*

No, a Z06 will embarass an E46 M3 on the track/back roads/drag strip. I've heard the Z06 is less stiff then the M3 as well. Your reliability point is pathetic at best. The M3 is hardly blameless when reliability is concerned.

Honestly, on reliability, I dont care what stats you show me, I know from personal experience that while there may be a few minor flaws in the M3's engine, but it takes a long time for them to require any major engine work, while GM engines tend to die around 100,000 miles. So in some regards, the LS6 might be just as reliable, but in the long run, its all about BMW.

As a drag car the BMW stands very little chance against the Z06. The LS6 just outpowers it. On a track however, I still prefer the M3. I know the stats for handling might still favor the Z06, but i've drivin both, and I swear by the M3's close to 50/50 weight distribution.

However I believe the beauty in the M3 lies not solely in its engine, the rest of the car is amazing (I love SMG), while most of the Z06's greatness comes from the LS6 (not to degrade the rest of the car).

Ok, the Japanese V8 thing is a stupid issue... a truck V8 is totally different than a sports car v8, you cannot put an LS1 into a blazer, well, you could, but it wouldn't work right. If Japan has such good V8's y didn't the Supra come w/ a 320HP V8 over the 320HP I6TT. Obviously their V8's aren't designed for this application, so there will be no V8 Nissan's outperforming the Z06. The LS1/LS6 is the n/a equivilant of the I6TT, it has Broad Torque and linear power bands, no drop off in high RPMS. It's power is made all the way through, not just low for towing and not just high like an S2K. Aside from a few very pricey exotic engines I have to say the LS motors are the V8 Kings... I will not claim America has the best 6cyl engines, so don't sit here and say something untrue, because we do have the best V8 and no Japan has nothing to match it... oh, and if they did it would be out, that is the nature of competition and economics.

This topic is getting silly. Why waste your time in an argument that will never be won....ever.

while GM engines tend to die around 100,000 miles.

wtf are you talking about? :eek7:

Ever seen a Lexus 4.0 V8 (From an LS400) put into a Mk 4 Supra with two snails attatched? I have.

Also F40 motorsport (A New Zealand based F40 replica builder) Put a Twin Turbo Lexus quadcam V8 in thier replicars as well- in that car they make around about 800bhp. The Lexus V8 > *

Ever seen a Lexus 4.0 V8 (From an LS400) put into a Mk 4 Supra with two snails attatched? I have.

Also F40 motorsport (A New Zealand based F40 replica builder) Put a Twin Turbo Lexus quadcam V8 in thier replicars as well- in that car they make around about 800bhp. The Lexus V8 > *

I saw that car in a video...........**drools**. That Lexus V8 isn't anything special though, most engines can reach that amount of power, it just depends on how little money is spent getting it to that point.

Hhmm....Money...Considering that the F40 Replica builder is based in New Zealand, I'd say all it would've costed is a Garden shed, a tool box, some Number 8 wire and a dozen Speights :lol:

If Japan has such good V8's y didn't the Supra come w/ a 320HP V8 over the 320HP I6TT. Obviously their V8's aren't designed for this application, so there will be no V8 Nissan's outperforming the Z06.

hmm lets think about this for a second...

here are some things i can think of off my head,

1. cheaper to produce
2. lighter overall weight
3. better weight distribution = better handling
4. better gas milage
5. less moving parts also a factor in reliability

i bet i could think of more... maybe if u use your brain for about 5 seconds u could actually come up with something and save some of us the time....

toyota did develop a 408hp hybrid v6 engine... if they can do that why should they need to go bigger... i think they are doing fine as they are...

Look stupid, I said for their class? Your comparing truck engines to sport cars? Ok smart ass? Like I already said or did your bias ass miss that, the Japanese don't make as many V8s as the Americans, but just because they don't make as many doesn't mean they can't. I firmly believe a Nissan decided to make a 405HP V8 sports car it would be better than yes the Corvette ZO6.

Let's compare shall we-

2004 Nissan Titan-$30,000-$34,000
5.6L
305HP
379TQ

Competetion-

2004 Ford F-150 (No Lightning)- $27,000-$36,000
5.4L
300HP
365TQ

2004 Dodge Ram (No SRT)- $29,000-$40,000
5.7L
345HP
375TQ

2004 Chevrolet Silverado- $30,000-$40,000
6.0L
300HP
360TQ

2004 GMC Sierra- $30,000-$40,000
6.0L
300HP
360TQ

Next...

2004 Lexus GS430- $47,000
4.8L
300HP
325TQ

2004 Infiniti M45- $43,00
4.5L
340HP
333TQ

Competetion-

2004 BMW 545I- $55,000
4.4L
325HP
330TQ

2004 Cadillac Deville- $46,000
4.6L
275HP
300TQ

2004 Cadillac Seville- $50,000
4.6L
275HP
300TQ

2004 Lincoln LS- $45,000
4.6L
239HP
287TQ

Shall I continue on, maybe you should re-read what I typed, cuz I cleary stated class leaders or (atleast up there with class leaders) and you comparing $50,000+ escalades to $30,000 trucks certainly isn't fair and certainly are not in the same class now are they? I mean the only thing your crappy disorganized comparison proved was that American manufactuers make more V8s, which I already stated was the case.

I threw the LSx engines in there becaudse they are good engines. All vortech engines can be found in chevy trucks. That 6.0l vortech is in the suburban, around the same price point as the Armada. ALso the Nissan 5.6 is in the Infiniti QX56 which competes with the escalade.

So I was comparing engines in the same class, jackass.:smokin:

You are just as biased for the Japanese engine as I am supposedly for the american engines, which I am not by the way, I am currently considering a Fx45 or a Rx330(I know its a v6 don't jump down my throat), as long as its a good engine I'll respect it. But the american engines with their antiquated pushrods seem to be either even with or beating the Japanese V8's

well you guys gotta take in account that japan doesn't really need gas guzzling V8s, japan itself is really small and i dont think they are going to go into V8 sports cars anytime soon, the supra in jgtc is using a V8 right now, but it doesn't look like toyota is bringing back the supra anytime soon, just watch, the next big thing is the "hybrid engine"

http://www.edmunds.com/future/2005/chevrolet/corvette/100278533/specs.html

IMO 19/28 is harldy gas guzzling

I threw the LSx engines in there becaudse they are good engines. All vortech engines can be found in chevy trucks. That 6.0l vortech is in the suburban, around the same price point as the Armada. ALso the Nissan 5.6 is in the Infiniti QX56 which competes with the escalade.

So I was comparing engines in the same class, jackass.:smokin:

You are just as biased for the Japanese engine as I am supposedly for the american engines, which I am not by the way, I am currently considering a Fx45 or a Rx330(I know its a v6 don't jump down my throat), as long as its a good engine I'll respect it. But the american engines with their antiquated pushrods seem to be either even with or beating the Japanese V8's

Well perhaps if you would have organized your comparison better maybe people would have understood it better. Also your right, the vortech engine can be found in the Suburban which does compete for the same customers as the Armada which also illustrates my point-

2004 Chevrolet Suburban
6.0L
325HP
365TQ

2004 Nissan Pathfinder Armada
5.6L
305HP
385TQ

Now I'm not disillusioned and believe that the Japanese make better V8s, I don't believe they do, because they just don't make enough of them to compete. Still the ones they do make are worthy and definitly not crappy. The Japanese choose not to make a lot of V8s, that is their choice, but that doesn't mean there technology is lacking, it just means that they are mostly interested in different markets. Still like I said the Japenese and their technology is fully capable of making very good V8s when ever they choose, like I said the very first time, do not mistake a lack of quantity for a lack of quality. Now on the other hand, I'm still waiting for that worth while N/A American V6.

My last point American and Japanese manufactuers just have different aims and goals, and to say that Japanese technology sucks because they do not make a lot of V8s is stupid. One could easily argue and say that American technology is inferior because they can only make decent horsepower with large displacement engines, and before you say that Japanese can only make power with forced induction, please stop and realize that in the past 20 years, I cannot think of one American 4-Cylinder or 6-Cylinder that has made over 300HP with FI or NA. Then somebody could just as easily come back with, well the Japanese maunfactuers have yet to create a V8 for sell in the United States that makes 400HP+. Does this mean that American technology is inferior? No. Does this mean Japanese technology is inferior? No. It just means that they have different aims and goals. I doubt they really look over each others shoulders to see what the other is up to as much as we imagine them too.

This topic is getting silly. Why waste your time in an argument that will never be won....ever.

:werd: :banghead:

All else being equal (power, tourque, and cost), I'll take the lightest available engine package, regardless of where it comes from or how many cyllinders it has. All of the engine designs mentioned have their strengths and weaknesses, which is why there are so many different engine designs that work. I have a 300 HP H-4 turbo because it came attached to a very good AWD system in a good chassis, not because I went out of my way to find an H-4 Turbo. I could have just as easily ended up with an I-6 NA or I-4 turbo, but IMO the rest of the drivetrain on those cars wasn't as good. To illustrate, here are what are I feel are the best performance values in their price range (USD):

Under $25k: Dodge SRT4
$25k-$45k: Subaru WRX STi
over $45k: Corvette Z06

As for which performs better, the E46 M3 or Z06, take a look at the results from the SCCA Runoffs over the last few years in the T1 class.

:werd: :banghead:

All else being equal (power, tourque, and cost), I'll take the lightest available engine package, regardless of where it comes from or how many cyllinders it has. All of the engine designs mentioned have their strengths and weaknesses, which is why there are so many different engine designs that work. I have a 300 HP H-4 turbo because it came attached to a very good AWD system in a good chassis, not because I went out of my way to find an H-4 Turbo. I could have just as easily ended up with an I-6 NA or I-4 turbo, but IMO the rest of the drivetrain on those cars wasn't as good. To illustrate, here are what are I feel are the best performance values in their price range (USD):

Under $25k: Dodge SRT4
$25k-$45k: Subaru WRX STi
over $45k: Corvette Z06

As for which performs better, the E46 M3 or Z06, take a look at the results from the SCCA Runoffs over the last few years in the T1 class.

Great post. I'm glad someone realizes that engine configuration is not that important...hp/torque/cost/etc are the stuff people should care about.

BTW, I6 w/ two snails can weight just as much as my aluminum V8!

with all said and done , name 1 v6 car that an american company makes that can hang with a 350z ... or 1 n/a 4cyl. american car that can hang with the ITR ... japanese are more refined with their car making , more hp per liter than anything coming out of any FORD , DODGE, or CHEVY dealership ... American cars with v8's can take the for mentioned cars , but they have more displacement , and worse gas miles , and more of a chance at breaking down ...thats why alot of american car companies have their engines or tranny's made by japanese companies , and sell them in their own cars ... fact is , american cars cant win on import levels , and imports cant win on american levels of play ... take your pic

This isn't thread thread about Japanese vs American. It's about displacement. Europe makes cars too you know, damn JDM elitist. =P

Show me a naturally 4 banger that beats it's v8 equivalent (same number of valves and similar compression, with about half the displacement). Show me a force induction 4 banger that beats it's force induction v8 equivalent.

This isn't thread thread about Japanese vs American. It's about displacement. Europe makes cars too you know, damn JDM elitist. =P

Show me a naturally 4 banger that beats it's v8 equivalent (same number of valves and similar compression, with about half the displacement). Show me a force induction 4 banger that beats it's force induction v8 equivalent.


Ofcourse the 4 banger will have higher compression in order to make a lot of power for it's relative small size. You said it's about displacement, so displacement stays the same and everything else can vary.

S2000- mustang GT
EVO-cobra
lotus Exige(n/a) - cobra

This isn't thread thread about Japanese vs American. It's about displacement. Europe makes cars too you know, damn JDM elitist. =P

Show me a naturally 4 banger that beats it's v8 equivalent (same number of valves and similar compression, with about half the displacement). Show me a force induction 4 banger that beats it's force induction v8 equivalent.

I agree with you, this is thread about engines, not Japanese vs. American, but you can chill on that "JDM elitist", as if we were arguing with ourselves dumba**, what about the the Domestic elitist? Anyhow technically your right again, 4-Cylinder vs. 8-Cylinder (keep it simple) the 8-Cylinder makes more power, it's simply a bigger engine and it's as simple as that. Of course technology, potential of engine, and etc. should also play a role when comparing, but if we keep it simple, N/A 8-Cylinder vs. N/A 4-Cylinder more often than not making more power.

with all said and done , name 1 v6 car that an american company makes that can hang with a 350z ... or 1 n/a 4cyl. american car that can hang with the ITR ... japanese are more refined with their car making , more hp per liter than anything coming out of any FORD , DODGE, or CHEVY dealership ... American cars with v8's can take the for mentioned cars , but they have more displacement , and worse gas miles , and more of a chance at breaking down ...thats why alot of american car companies have their engines or tranny's made by japanese companies , and sell them in their own cars ... fact is , american cars cant win on import levels , and imports cant win on american levels of play ... take your pic

He seems to have it all figured out. :rolleyes: