Part 4: N/A or Forced Induction

We already have the CTR cams..and i have heard Toda's are difficult to tune...

But..we'll make do with what we have!

So...i still say i/h/e call it a day...maybe a V-AFC and some tuning...if one is BENT on DRAG you can buy a damn nitrous system...:rolleyes: :D maybe some cam gears.....

O yeah..i can assure everyone that Jon does not do crack. He's a heroine man :D j/k j/k

Oh, so moderators know all then? Whatever. I may be new here son, but I have owned modded imports since 92', and have owned and tuned 2 nissan Z's (82' Turbo, and a 90' TT), 1 93' Z28(blah!), have had two different turbo set-ups on my civic and two motors . I am probably the only 93' civic owner on this board that has actually owned his civic since it was new. I'm just saying that if the car is N/A with bolt-ons, it won't be fast. Period. Sounds to me like some of you guys just wanna build a show car that will only run with stock WRX's and such.

No, moderators do not no all.

But they do know something and it was implicated in your post that CivSiGuy knew nothing.
I defend my friends and especially when they are correct.

Are Civic TYpe-R cams bolt ons?
Is a 2.0L block bolt on?

Wow..i'd love to live in that world

Lets not get snippy or sidetracked by arguing, I think we all knew this thing would get into a heated discussion eventually. I think everyone has made valid points so far, so lets just discuss and see if we can come to a good compromise. Thats what I think we have set out to do, is set up a Civic that was good all around. Now, because of a limited budget, it will no doubt suffer in some areas more than others. The idea is to get the best bang for the buck, in all aspects, not just looks, not just power, and not just handling.

I think we must sit down and budget everything at once here. It does not seem like we can just go step by step, because by the end you know some things are going to get shorted. What we need is a plan boys! :D

Originally posted by Redcivic
Oh, so moderators know all then?

its your own opinion to form.

I'll tell you right now that I don't know a damn thing about car audio or suspension. Does that make everyone a lil happier?

And I stand behind countless dyno results, late nights the internet researching, and more time into this forum than 1/10 of the people here will ever see.

I don't stand behind the cars I've owned. Cuz I only have had 1. But I have a car background that is damn vast for a 17 year old. I'm 17 years old.. ok 17. Don't like it? Petition the owner of this place. igor@af - PM him and tell him you don't like a 17 year old kid who knows nothing running the 92+ Civic forum. But I can tell you right now for that 1 PM that you send him, he'll get 10 PM's sent that stand behind me for what I know and what I do for this place.

I don't mean to go off on people but when you just show up trying to be all hard behind the cars you have, it really hits a nerve cuz I know too many people with fine ass rides that don't even know what VTEC is or what that thing is that goes ppsssssst under their hood. I'm not saying that it is you, Redcivic, but I don't appreciate being singled out and getting called stupid over a post that makes complete sence and is correct to nearly every other person in this forum and everyone in the Honda community.

Posting something like "that sounds a lil high, could I see some dyno's to prove that" would be a tad bit more professional than "CivSiGuy, you are smoking crack if you think I/H/E gets you 25HP" and "You've been reading too many ads". See where I'm coming from?

If you want to get anywhere with these boards at all, let's be a lil respectful. Especially to the people who made this board what it is. OK?

to everyone else..

please don't think i'm going off on everyone. But lets try to work it out as a group. The above post shows what can go on when people start getting all stupid with other people. and i'm gonna throw the redflag on my own post with this..
http://www.automotiveforums.com/kris/kris/+junk/arguing.jpg

learn from what I just did.. and lets all try to get along.

I will post a poll tomorrow if things mellow a bit

I totally did not see the CTR cams. My bad.

Okay then...how about I/H/E and a 75 shot? Nitrous = power and show appeal.

Originally posted by delsolguy
I totally did not see the CTR cams. My bad.

Okay then...how about I/H/E and a 75 shot? Nitrous = power and show appeal.

i dunno man.. the more I think about it. $3,000 for a turbo. Sparq can get us competition ready on ICE for less than $2,000. We have alot more money to play with than we think. Besides, NOS runs out.. turbo power doesnt.

Originally posted by CivSiGuy


i dunno man.. the more I think about it. $3,000 for a turbo. Sparq can get us competition ready on ICE for less than $2,000. We have alot more money to play with than we think. Besides, NOS runs out.. turbo power doesnt.

a brilliant flash of light occured, and the seas began to calm, the skys removed themselves of clouds. behold the vision of absolut truth stands at the gates of your reality

thank you. cause three grand is not biblical in stature to the relative cost of engine upogrades.

it just amazing to me that day after day we bitch and moan about our cars being so slow and always dream that we can run wiht the best of them and at the point of opportunity we give it all up so we can continure to look good. show is great but overlooking the basic need for speed is painfully wrong. to skimp of the one thing that makes us the most hated group of car owners only plays to the crowd like it has done so many times before. and we wonder why domestic guys hate us so much....its because we comprimise our bite for more bark. 3000 is a small price to pay for the personal gratification that will be rewarded in the end.....the ends truely do justify the means. but damn, now we wont be able to get a our body kit molded, or get a set of volk's.

11,500 - 3,000 = 8500 if you cant bling your ride out for 8500 then something is seriously wrong.

I love You guys:D This kind of stuff is what it's all about. Oh, and I just want to say Amen to i like naked girls on the previous post.

No offense to anyone especially my friend Rick here but I'd like to politely give my opinion on that and then I'll agree to whatever the majority goes with.

I wouldn't mind at all getting a turbo for this thing but like I said before, I don't want to make compromises. Most of us may bitch and moan about how our cars are slow because we run 17 second 1320 times. We ALREADY have a high 13 second car here. I can garauntee you that if everyone in this forum had a 13 second car, they'd be ALOT less bitching and more big-headedness about how they can beat so and so. Like you said rick, you're happy, although you wouldn't mind more. Cause you already have a decently quick car. As I've always said, if you want to run with the best, don't start with the worst.

If I had a 13sec civic as my daily driver, I'd be tha happiest fucker in this county. I'd enjoy seeing the faces of surprise and delight everyday as I'd meet or beat most f-bodies, lightnings, stangs, ect. I even know of some stang/camaro clubs that would actually let me join. Run with stock WRX's? Damn, an NA economy car can run with a turbocharged up-the-ass 4wd sports car. If you ask me, that ain't that fuck'n bad.

The reason I'm not obsessing about speed with any civic is because I know it's place in the food chain. If I had money and wanted speed, I'd start with a better car.

Now that I'm at peace, let's just get on with voting. :)

Okay, I read back and I think I found the info on this CRVTEC motor but correct me if I'm wrong.


225HP right or wrong? Is it the CRVtec Dominator? Can someone post the exact specs.


And this whole time I'm thinking it's just regular frankenstein with CTR Cams, and JE pistons and rods. I apologize. I was thinking 180 or so HP on this motor. Yeah, I think a 225HP civic is a good start and could be quick if we don't go wild on ICE and interior.

I'd like a bit more info on the motor. I reread the last Chapter, but apparently I'm still missing something. Who are we buying this engine from? Why can't we specify what internals we're getting?

what are the damn specs on this engine....I need one of you bastards to fill me in:finger:

Hey johny boy...where are you? :)

Originally posted by Rice-Rocketeer
Hey johny boy...where are you? :)

Work..he'll be here later..

But..i think I can give some specs:

B20B block (i am correct in 'B' right?)
B17A crank (RR - you should be able to devine the R/S ratio from that I'm guessing)
9.5:1 CR - crap we lowered it! I'm with SolGuy WHY DIDN'T WE GET TO CHOOSE OUR CR?!?!?!?!??!!?!
CTR cams :D which i think was good - but with the lowered CR we're stupid....
B16A head - 'nuff said

So......I'm guessing we're at around...195@fly -- just because we don't really have a NA-built CRVTEC. If we got some higher CR pistons...even 10.6:1 We'd be very happy!

I guess we'll have to wait for CivSiGuy...I'm still curious on this:

This motor will have to be built. If we're getting new rods and pistons, WHY THE HELL CAN'T WE CHOOSE WHAT WE WANT??? *fuming* :mad:

Ok Ok calm down...there. :D

Okay, I just got a quote from importbuilders.com. $8,500.00 for this:

Package 2: Hydro LS/VTEC High Performance Changeover.
Comes with bran new axles, shift linkage, ECU, wire harness, stock mounts, complete motor. Tranny included.
This is a HIGH PERFORMANCE total rebuild package for those of you that are sick of getting used motors that don't last. This package includes Import Builders completely revamping the motor. New Probe Racing Forged Pistons 81.5MM, new Probe Racing Ultralite Rods, balanced crank, new bearings, new oil pump, new water pump, new timing belt, new alternator belt, new high performance valve train, new high performance cams, new adjustable cam gears, Mugen chipped ECU 9500 RPM rev limit OBD1, Fuel regulator, gauge, DC 4-1 JDM header, Iceman Intake, ITR intake manifold, new valve seals, new head gasket, new valve cover gasket, and new 6 puck Hyper clutch with new bearing. Shipping included.


That is absolutely ridiculous! $8,500.00 for 195WHP? Shit, I could buy a Type-R motor for $5,000.00, and Turbo charge it with the extra $3,500.00 I save. So, how much did we really pay for this CRVtec?

Originally posted by VTEC_boi
B17A crank (RR - you should be able to devine the R/S ratio from that I'm guessing)

It's extremely close to 1.75.

Ok I guess we need to take another look at our engine particulars. It was assumed for me this would stay NA. In my slightly buzzed state last night I was thinking of all these things and if we DO go turbo, we can keep the stock crank and use the money for other things.

We agreed on the engine but not the engine specifics. We need to take a look at the engine specifics as well. Like the rods and pistons for example.

But the 9.5:1 pistons are not a bad choice at for forced induction. If we go super low, we definitly FEEL the turbolag. But with higher comps, it'll slightly limit our top end but increase low end. But for NA applications, yeah 11.0:1 isn't such a bad choice.

For me it's just whether we should keep the 17 crank and that will inturn determine our rod choice.

So it seems to me that Chapter 3 ended a bit abruptly. :huh:

Ya, maybe we oversimplified this whole thing.

As far as the 9.5:1 CR for turbo, it may limit the top end like RR said, but I think a small turbo with low boost would be easier on our budget, and easier to deal with and manage. Our horsepower numbers are decent to begin with, so a little boost should make it very sweet. Id like to see a dyno on one of these engines, what kind of power are they making under the curve? Also, I thought this was the ultimate street Civic, something the common daily driver would be running, so an all out dragger isnt necessary, right?

Just to be sure, after the car and the CR-VTEC, how much money do we have left? I also had another idea, setting aside money to an "Ah, fuck!" fund. You know, something always seems to go wrong, and extra parts or service may need to be purchased....I dunno, depends on how real you want this to be I guess. Just an idea, if anyone cares. :D

here's the poll

Ok...so despite my whining I guess that we can't change the 9.5:1 comp ratio?

If we could, I'd be all for I/H/E and N20. But...since we can't...this makes the decision much harder.

de rev hard stage 2 ownz j00

Originally posted by piscorpio
Lets not get snippy or sidetracked by arguing, I think we all knew this thing would get into a heated discussion eventually. I think everyone has made valid points so far, so lets just discuss and see if we can come to a good compromise. Thats what I think we have set out to do, is set up a Civic that was good all around. Now, because of a limited budget, it will no doubt suffer in some areas more than others. The idea is to get the best bang for the buck, in all aspects, not just looks, not just power, and not just handling.

I think we must sit down and budget everything at once here. It does not seem like we can just go step by step, because by the end you know some things are going to get shorted. What we need is a plan boys! :D

Thats what I'd say. We do need to have a plan...we need to allot a certain amount of green for each step. We still have 4 stages to go after this one. I think moderation is the key. For example, we dont need a top of the line deluxe stereo with a 500 dollar head...something decent will work. Also, most stages wont cost as much money as what this one, and the motor stages are costing us (about 4,000 a piece). Wheels, tires, and suspension is about 4000 as well, but the interior, body kit and such shouldnt cost over 4000 (In my opinion)

If you disagree with anything i've said, please be kind...:D

and if that doesnt work, then fuck you:flipa:

oh, and btw...put me in for a vortech supercharger...:p

Is the DRAG and Revhard our only turbo options? What else can fit this thing? This is where I get lost when it comes to this CR-VTEC engine. :(
I was hoping for a smaller cheaper turbo option (like the GReddy for Si's, you can get the kit and intercooler for less than the DRAG or Revhard on modacar.com...Im sure if I shop around I could find it even cheaper). And I am still skeptical when it comes to those kits, I sometimes think you could call Turbonetics and order up your own custom kit for cheaper. (Just a thought, I really have not tried.)

Compared the the DRAG turbo, my previous JRSC idea just totally sucks :rolleyes: . Lets get the DRAG kit and run stock boost ^_^.

let me just remind anyone voting for the vortech or jrsc with nos that this will most likely be a dangerous option as it will put us over the brink of the fuel systems capabilities.

And a standalone EMS is not an option with our budget.

I vote for I/H/E w/N20. Cheap and quick.

poll will close tomorrow evening

C'mon Rev Hard!!! GOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hit ur 'nahs' button :D hahahhahahahaha

Go with tha Drag Turbo! With $8000 left there will be plenty of money to do the rest of the mods. There's what only Exterior (wing and body kit), Interior (Seats, sound system, Monster tach etc). Plenty of money to go around (depending on what products we get) :D:D:D!

i/h/e with NOS for $1500

DRAG Turbo is victorious.... on to part 5