pro- abortion

In many ways people think abortion is wrong. Is it? can you honestly tell me that there are young girls out there that shouldnt have a say in their future? yes, abortion is in a way murder. yet... do you think about the life the child would have if the mother goes through with it? People live their own lives and are therefore entitled to their say of what goes on in it. should it be legal for the government to change someones life? The adoption rates would sky rocket and poverty would become even more severe if abortion became illegal. Population would drown the world. Why do people bring their pets to the pound? They kill them in two weeks anyway... because the world cant have too many cats or dogs?? whats different about people? People lead to thoughts, thoughts to belief, and beliefs... to war. does it always take a war to level out the population?

I'm just saying stop judging people for what decisions they make and start judging them on the grounds theyre making them on.

In many ways people think abortion is wrong. Is it? can you honestly tell me that there are young girls out there that shouldnt have a say in their future? Of course they should. No would have been a good say in their future when the were thinking about having unprotected sex. Accidents do happen and people do get pregnant even with todays devices. But that doesn't happen very often.

yes, abortion is in a way murder. yet... do you think about the life the child would have if the mother goes through with it? People live their own lives and are therefore entitled to their say of what goes on in it. The life the child would have had could have been a great one. Who are we to judge a life before it is able to begin.

should it be legal for the government to change someones life? They already are....The childs.

The adoption rates would sky rocket and poverty would become even more severe if abortion became illegal. Population would drown the world.
Adoption rates would skyrocket? Is that a bad thing? People wait years for a child when trying to adopt now.
Poverty is not due to overpopulation. Poverty is due to the lack of compassion.

Why do people bring their pets to the pound? They kill them in two weeks anyway... because the world cant have too many cats or dogs?? whats different about people?
Souls.
People lead to thoughts, thoughts to belief, and beliefs... to war. does it always take a war to level out the population?

No. Disease, poverty, genocide, terrorism, just to name a few also provide plenty of opportunity to wipe out large amounts of humanity.

I'm just saying stop judging people for what decisions they make and start judging them on the grounds theyre making them on.[

On that point we agree. The problem comes in on who is judging the childs life and what kind of life it was going to have?

On that note. Abortions aren't always wrong all the time IMO.

Souls.


No offense, but it's exactly THAT which really pisses me off aobut the world. Who's to say dogs and cats and hampsters dont have any souls. OR that we do. And even if it's true, i dont see how that makes it ok to slaughter them just because we don't want them around.

i don't think pro-abortion is a real term. it's pro choice. i don't think there is anyone who thinks abortion is ever a positive thing. that's all i really have to say on the subject cuz i don't wana get dragged into a 40 page abortion thread.

actually DGB, accidental pregnancy happens more than you would expect.

but, amalea, i dont follow your logic on people leading to war. you actually forgot a step, that isnt universal to all people, and thats the inability to accept that other people have different beliefs, and that those beliefs are as valid as ours.

thats what leads to war (well, besides, money, land grabs, oil, nationalism, etc)

"I noticed that all the people who are for abortions have already been born" - Ronald Reagan

A womans right to dismember a fetus and suck it out a vaccum tube is legal and easy to do. I judge those who make that choice as putting little to no value on human life. Those people who have them are selfish and are looking for a way out of the situation they've created. Stopping a heart is the path they chose. Don't expect respect from me for taking that step.

just because we do not agree with a right, doesnt mean it should be done away with.

there exist some people who i'd rather not hear talk. but i'll defend their freedom of speech anyday.

id rather not see abortions performed, but i'll defend a womans right to choose.

i also find it amussing that the majority of the anti abortion camp is on the conservative side of things, which also happens to be the side that accepts civilian death in war as acceptable collateral damage, and children dying of starvation as a "sacrifice" we have to make to enjoy economic freedom.

Did I say I liked civilian death in a war? Did I ever say anything in any post about children dying of starvation was ok? In fact I believe I have said on several occasions that poverty is unnecesary and basically evil.

Yes I am considered conservative and no I won't defend a womans(or mans) right to choose between the life and death of an unborn but I also won't stop her/him from making that choice. I will however voice my opinion should it ever come up for a vote.


Pro-abortion is actually a real term.

Yes I am considered conservative and no I won't defend a womans(or mans) right to choose between the life and death of an unborn but I also won't stop her/him from making that choice. I will however voice my opinion should it ever come up for a vote.


:thumbsup: :1:

i specifically worded the post to not include all conservatives, especially you.

i was refering to the majority of people here in po-dunk arkansas that ive come across, telling me that a woman cannot choose, because killing that baby is wrong. but then theyjust shrug their shoulders when i point out the mass amounts of poverty they arent raising hell about.

im sorry if my statement was misconstrude in any way.

No problem. Sorry I jumped to conclusions.

No offense, but it's exactly THAT which really pisses me off aobut the world. Who's to say dogs and cats and hampsters dont have any souls. OR that we do. And even if it's true, i dont see how that makes it ok to slaughter them just because we don't want them around.

No offense taken. I think God pretty much says it in the Scriptures. Maybe not outright but He didn't create cats in His image. There is no great commission given by Jesus to go out and preach the word to all hamsters. I don't think it's ok to go out and slaughter them either. However.. eating them for food I think is ok.(Never kill more than you need to survive). Killing the rodents that get into your house is ok.(disease and all that.)

i dunno man, whether or not animals have souls is a big hairy argument (perhaps worthy of its own thread :D ) that depends alot more on whether or not God said so.

Idk If I should comment in this thread or not but hey I might as well. Any ways Im 19 and in my short life span I have come across alot of girls. Most girls who get abortions are younger then 20. They dont think about the future or what could happen. ALot of these girls around in my area go out and have sex with out a condom or birth control because they believe they "cant" get pregnant. Then after about ten plus times they get pregnant. They moan and cry to there parents saying they made a mistake but they want to keep it and the parents Do NoT want to deal with a grand kid. Its the parents who in the end tell them to get an abortion because they do not want the agravation. The girl ends up getting one, hating herself but goes out and does the same thing over and over again till shes 18 and has a kid.Then there are the exceptions; girls who dont care and just get abortions regularly. I believe that everyone has the right to choice. But when it comes to abortion alot of the fetuses are rather developd. Its not like the sperms still floating around in there. Anyways I agree with yogs. Ive litterally talked to girls who tell me "well if I ever get pregnant Ill just get an abortion so its not a big deal".

Because this is my opinion I hope I don't offend anyone. I believe that abortion is completly wrong and don't give a damn about what the circumstances are. The only thing that I might accept is the morning after pill. After that it is a human life and that is that. If you don't want the child there are so many options. There are programs to help mothers with absolutely everything from covering medical bills to clothing and other necessities to housing and food I could go on and on about help that is out there. There is also adoption. There are so many people out there that want to adopt. I work with a guy and he and his wife have been waiting to adopt for over 3 years. I work in the medical field and see this alot. If you aren't ready to have a child and take care of it then damnit you have no business having sex, end of story. Again I hope I didn't offend anyone, if I did I am sorry. I just had to vent on this. Just for arguments sack. Check this out to put things in perspective, http://www.abortionno.com/Resources/pictures.html

Consequently, only the individual can decide what to believe. There is no rational way to reach a moral agreement within culture. There are too many variations and variables to what one, would consider the problem resolved.
Specifically all moral judgments, are nothing but expressions of preference, expressions of attitude or feeling, insofar as they are moral or evaluative in character.

indyram, what you say a point, but i would like to adress a few points.

just as it is difficult to raise a child, it is also difficult to carry one. the morning sickness, the extra cost of eating more, buying a whole new wardrobe, the cost of the delivery, etc.

sure there are programs to help but not everyone has access to, or knows about these programs. many also dont qualify for them.

there are extenuating circumstances to think about as well. would you force a rape victim to carry the rapists child? no? alright, so you would allow for abortions given circumstances. well, what about the 16 year old highschool kid who gets knocked up because the condom broke? she has no business raising a child.

but, you say, then she has no business having sex. who are you to dictate what people do? you dont want a wreck. you dont want to have to put up with the insurance, the damages to yourself and your vehicle, the possible damage to other people and their vehicles...should you not be allowe to drive? if you could find a way to make that wreck go away, would you? not being ready for kids is not a reason to not have sex.

women should not be forced to choose an unborn life over there own current one if they dont want to. end of story. dont agree with abortion, dont have one. but let those who wish to keep the choice, the ability to choose.

I didn't write this...came across it on www.debateforums.com and thought it applied. I don't personally know what I think abt. abortion right now so it does not necessarily reflect my opinions.

Simplifying the Abortion Issue

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Many people would like to say that abortion is a complicated issue. It really only comes down to this one question: "What is the unborn?" If the unborn were merely a 'fetus' or unwanted tissue, than of course I would have no problem with this issue. But if the unborn really is a living human being, abortionists would have no argument left.


There is a four letter acronym you should always remember: S L E D

S - Size

L - Level of Developement

E - Environment

D - Dependency


Size
A tall person isn't more of a human than a short person.

Level of Developement
A four year old is not any less human than a fourteen year old. The four year old is not all the way developed. Neither is a twenty year old more developed than a forty-five year old.

Environment
A person isn't any more human when he's outside of a building than when he's inside.

Dependency
If a person is on life support, it doesn't make them any less of a human. After all, we all are dependent on oxygen, aren't we? No body can be completely independent

"I noticed that all the people who are for abortions have already been born" - Ronald Reagan

A womans right to dismember a fetus and suck it out a vaccum tube is legal and easy to do. I judge those who make that choice as putting little to no value on human life. Those people who have them are selfish and are looking for a way out of the situation they've created. Stopping a heart is the path they chose. Don't expect respect from me for taking that step.
:1: Very well said.

Just read Boingo's new post and I agree with her as well. Lazysmurf, you're not making any good opinions, just a bunch of mumbo-jumbo that doesn't make sense.

indyram, what you say a point, but i would like to adress a few points.

just as it is difficult to raise a child, it is also difficult to carry one. the morning sickness, the extra cost of eating more, buying a whole new wardrobe, the cost of the delivery, etc.

Inconvenience, IMHO, is not a justification for killing a child.

...who are you to dictate what people do? you dont want a wreck. you dont want to have to put up with the insurance, the damages to yourself and your vehicle, the possible damage to other people and their vehicles...should you not be allowe to drive? if you could find a way to make that wreck go away, would you? not being ready for kids is not a reason to not have sex.

Whoa...WHAT?? That's the worst straw-man argument I've ever seen. Since when is a baby equivalent to a car wreck? I don't remember ANYBODY complimenting my cute car wreck, or wishing they could have a car wreck on their own, but they can't so they adopt someone else's. Not being ready for kids is as good a reason not to have sex as any.

women should not be forced to choose an unborn life over there own current one if they dont want to. end of story.

Nobody is contesting abortion in cases where it's either the fetus' life or the woman's, and SOMEBODY is going to die. I think the abortions people are upset about, is when somebody uses it as birth control.

dont agree with abortion, dont have one. but let those who wish to keep the choice, the ability to choose.

Don't agree with murder, don't commit it, but let those who wish to keep the choice, the ability to choose....or

Don't agree with rape, don't commit it, but let those who wish to keep the choice, the ability to choose....or

Don't agree with watching TV, don't watch it, but let those who wish to keep the choice, the ability to choose.

See, that argument works for TV, but pretty much becomes invalid the minute your choice affects somebody else's body and/or existence.

Whoa...WHAT?? That's the worst straw-man argument I've ever seen. Since when is a baby equivalent to a car wreck? I don't remember ANYBODY complimenting my cute car wreck, or wishing they could have a car wreck on their own, but they can't so they adopt someone else's. Not being ready for kids is as good a reason not to have sex as any.

actually, i couldnt phrase that right, sure its straw man argument, but follow it. a wreck is an unwanted consequence of driving. pregnancy, unwanted consequence of sex. just because you dont want/arent ready for kids, doesnt mean you should be disallowed to have sex. thats what i was trying to say.

Nobody is contesting abortion in cases where it's either the fetus' life or the woman's, and SOMEBODY is going to die. I think the abortions people are upset about, is when somebody uses it as birth control.

but what about a womens right to choose when she wants to start a family/ if she wants to start a family? what about a womans right to maintain her life as it is?

Don't agree with murder, don't commit it, but let those who wish to keep the choice, the ability to choose....or

Don't agree with rape, don't commit it, but let those who wish to keep the choice, the ability to choose....or

Don't agree with watching TV, don't watch it, but let those who wish to keep the choice, the ability to choose.

See, that argument works for TV, but pretty much becomes invalid the minute your choice affects somebody else's body and/or existence.

speaking of straw man arguments... :biggrin:

and tex (plus the rest of you) i dont seek in any way to provide any arguements that will change your views on abortion. i dont seek to prove that abortion is right or wrong in any case. what i do seek to prove is that there are people (a great many of them) that believe it is an acceptable practice (right or wrong), and that those peoples right to do what they feel is necessary should not be abridged. my problem is with the legislation of morality.

actually, i couldnt phrase that right, sure its straw man argument, but follow it. a wreck is an unwanted consequence of driving. pregnancy, unwanted consequence of sex. just because you dont want/arent ready for kids, doesnt mean you should be disallowed to have sex. thats what i was trying to say.

Yes, but when driving you accept the possibility that you may get in an accident. Further, not many people deliberately drive around hoping to be in one.

When active sexually, you should accept the possibility that you may produce offspring. Plenty of people deliberately do do. More want to but cannot.

I am not saying that sex should only be used as a means of having children, but saying that everyone having sex should be well aware that they're at risk for having children.



but what about a womens right to choose when she wants to start a family/ if she wants to start a family? what about a womans right to maintain her life as it is?

What about the fetus' right to life?
The woman chose to accept the possible consequences of intercourse when she decided to become sexually active.



speaking of straw man arguments... :biggrin:

Fair enough.. :grinno:

my problem is with the legislation of morality.

We currenty have on the books many moral issues that do not affect anyone else directly, such as gay marriage.


Side note:
I came across a guy in another forum whose wife became pregnant, then had an abortion whilst he was at work. He had wanted the baby.
If abortion is legal and okey-dokey with you, how much say should the father have? That was his baby too.

yes, the father should have a say, no reason he shouldnt. unless, of course, his dumb ass ran off. then HE should be post-natally aborted.

but its tough if only one parent wants it. then what? the mom runs off after birth? thats not cool. the dad runs off? not cool either. single parenting is a big problem in the world, and i wouldnt wish it on any kid. perhaps they should consider remarriage i guess. im not sure.

what do you mean gay marriage doesnt affect anyone else? it affects the whole community. the sanctity of marriage will be ruined, our kids will grow up in a world where people can marry three people and animals. our whole world is doomed if we allow gay marriage. WE'LL BURN IN ETERNAL HELL FIRE!!!!!!!

yes, we have things like that on the books, doesnt make it any more right

yes, the father should have a say, no reason he shouldnt. unless, of course, his dumb ass ran off. then HE should be post-natally aborted.

but its tough if only one parent wants it. then what? the mom runs off after birth? thats not cool. the dad runs off? not cool either. single parenting is a big problem in the world, and i wouldnt wish it on any kid. perhaps they should consider remarriage i guess. im not sure.

The couple was married and already had 2-3 children. Nobody was going to run off,..but if I were him I don't think I could be married to her anymore.

Just was wondering what you thought. You consider the woman's rights, but remember the fetus and the father too.

what do you mean gay marriage doesnt affect anyone else? it affects the whole community. the sanctity of marriage will be ruined, our kids will grow up in a world where people can marry three people and animals. our whole world is doomed if we allow gay marriage. WE'LL BURN IN ETERNAL HELL FIRE!!!!!!!

yes, we have things like that on the books, doesnt make it any more right
LOL..ain't that the truth.

My simple statement and if you can argue it then I congratulate you...

I hate it. I don't condone, at least for me. Maybe in an extreme situation, like the mother's death, would I do it but Idk since I've never been in that kind of situation. The thing is, I don't know why people care so much about other's in this but like any other death "meh". I think people should have the right to choose in case of such a situation or anything like it. Just by basic liberties people should have that right 'cause what is it hurting all those people who are againist abortion? Exactly, it's not so in conclusion, I myself would not have one, but hey, in case serious occurs, I'd like to at least have that choice ya know.

Antis, argue with that...

I judge those who make that choice as putting little to no value on human life.
I thought you were pro-choice, Yogs - I mean you support the right for people to drive overgrown vehicles and endanger the lives of those who drive cars of a logical and usefull size. :) So I guess we're the same when it comes to people sacrificing the lives of others so they don't have to think responsibly. I too judge those who make those choices as putting little to no value on the lives of others... but should it be outlawed then?

Level of Developement
A four year old is not any less human than a fourteen year old. The four year old is not all the way developed. Neither is a twenty year old more developed than a forty-five year old.

A person is not a person, nor can be a person if they have no internal organs, or any bone structure. I don't consider the embryo to be "human" of course, any more than somebody considers a chicken egg to be a chicken. A fetus is something all together different though. I don't like abortions, or support them - I don't go around saying "Hey, why are you bothing with that baby? Get an abortion! it's the greatest!"
But should it be outlawed. I think not. We already have enough laws, though I would like to see those considering abortion to be fully educated about what is going to happen to their embryo/fetus, so they can make an educated choice and know what they are going to have done, instead of just having the right to choose and not give a damn.

i think my mom described it best when my brothers girlfriend went and got an abortion....

after a month my mom realized it she said "they killed my grandbaby"

i think that's why i'm not pro-abortion

lazysmurff the only 2 times you gave as examples are a 16 year old and a rape victim. Again like I said I am not completly oppossed. It that was the case they would know right away instead of waiting for a couple months and then having an abortion. You can go to any planned parenthood and get free condoms, testing, the morning after pill, ect. If you don't have insurance that will cover it they will pay the cost that is what they are there for. Like I said before it is just my opinion. I still believe that if you are not ready to have a child you shouldn't be having sex. I had my daughter when I was really young and I was not with the girl. Yes it had been in my mind for a long time that I could end up getting someone pregnant. That was okay with me. It was really hard at first, but I working through it on my own and made it work. I have given her everything that she needs and made it work. And I was a poor f#^%$r too.

im glad for you. you seem happy. i was merely trying to give examples where you would agree abortion could be legal, to open a gateway of sorts to allow abortion as it now stands.

but just to point out, you dont always know the morning after. and most would go into denial and not want to admit that they could be pregnent, and by the time they finally get up courage to test, they are and its a little late for the morning after pill.

..and most would go into denial and not want to admit that they could be pregnent, and by the time they finally get up courage to test, they are and its a little late for the morning after pill.

I think that just establishes further that they aren't mature enough to be having sex.

The life the child would have had could have been a great one. Who are we to judge a life before it is able to begin.

Obviously that goes the other way too... You could have aborted Hitler 2.0.

I'm pro-choice. Would I abort? I doubt it.

Boingo, wahoo!

OK, people aren't mature, that's life. Should we have tests now or surveys or somehting for maturity? IT's just good to know the choice is available if needed. When some anti-abortion person suddenly needs one 'cause they said they'd never get one but then there life hangs in the balance and it crosses their mind...I won't laugh, I won't say "I told you so" 'cause they will learn on their on as all do and that's how one gains maturity.

These feak anti-abortion people aren't mature, check out half their displays!!!

Boingo, wahoo!

OK, people aren't mature, that's life. Should we have tests now or surveys or somehting for maturity? IT's just good to know the choice is available if needed. When some anti-abortion person suddenly needs one 'cause they said they'd never get one but then there life hangs in the balance and it crosses their mind...I won't laugh, I won't say "I told you so" 'cause they will learn on their on as all do and that's how one gains maturity.

These feak anti-abortion people aren't mature, check out half their displays!!!


NOBODY is debating medically necessary interventions to save the mother's life. Nobody. :rolleyes:
We are talking about elective abortions, those performed for convenience's sake.

So basically, only in a life-or-death situation can you get an abortion??? Idk, personally I like it, I just know that other people havin' an abortion as far as I can see will have the greatest affect on me. That child, or what maybe a child, is of them. Kind of like suiside...as long as they don't make a public display, eh, if they're stupid enough.

I don't think abortions are quite being used as a birth-control tool yet. Poeple aren't that rich. Yes, there is the adoption thing, which is quite a hassle indeed. I know, I was and plan to but still, nine months before that, idk. I just see no reason that a law needs to be made againist them. Maybe, maybe when in the 3rd trimester then yeah, but overall, i don't see the affect on me or anyone else besides the parent.

I really don't like it, but no one has ever produced a really good reason for a law...just that you might be takin' a life, but we're unsure what that is.

So basically, only in a life-or-death situation can you get an abortion??? Idk, personally I like it, I just know that other people havin' an abortion as far as I can see will have the greatest affect on me. That child, or what maybe a child, is of them. Kind of like suiside...as long as they don't make a public display, eh, if they're stupid enough.

I don't think abortions are quite being used as a birth-control tool yet. Poeple aren't that rich.

You obviously need to watch more Maury Povitch. There was some lady on there who'd had seven.

Yes, there is the adoption thing, which is quite a hassle indeed. I know, I was and plan to but still, nine months before that, idk. I just see no reason that a law needs to be made againist them. Maybe, maybe when in the 3rd trimester then yeah, but overall, i don't see the affect on me or anyone else besides the parent.

Maybe, maybe in the THIRD TRIMESTER?!? Do you realize that 95% of babies born in the third trimester survive? By the time you get to the THIRD trimester the baby is over 10 inches long and weighs 2 lbs. Are you fucking crazy?!? I am sorry, but by that point the mother has had 189 days to get her ass down to the clinic. By the time you are in the THIRD TRIMESTER you have been feeling your baby kick for at least 2 months!

Jesus, partial birth abortion, which is: (1) inducing a breech delivery with forceps, (2) delivering the legs, arms and torso only, (3) puncturing the back of the skull with scissors or a trochar, (4) inserting a suction curette into the skull, (4) suctioning the contents of the skull so as to collapse it, (5) completing the delivery is illegal in thirty states, and they start doing PBA in the second fucking trimester!!!

DO you even know jack shit about what you're arguing for? By the sounds of it you're just trying to keep your 'options open' on the off-chance you knock somebody up. :banghead:

I really don't like it, but no one has ever produced a really good reason for a law...just that you might be takin' a life, but we're unsure what that is.

http://www.justfacts.com/abortion.htm

Here you go, Damien. Come back when you know wtf you're talking about.

The woman's right to an abortion falls within the right to privacy protected by the Fourteenth Amendment. The decision gave women the right to abortion during her entire pregnancy and defined different levels of state interest for regulating abortion in the second and third trimesters.

Currently an estimated 1,365,000 million women receive abortions in America annually. Approximately 40 million abortions have been performed since 1973. The number of deaths per 100,000 legal abortion procedures declined five-fold between 1973 and 1991.

RU-486: Also known as Mifepristone, non-surgical abortion or the "abortion pill," RU-486 allows for an early termination of pregnancy, within the first seven weeks after conception.

US District Judge Phyllis Hamilton declared yesterday in California that the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act is unconstitutional. She stated that it infringes on a woman's right to choose an abortion. This ruling is the first time a federal judge has determined the ban to be unconsitutional since President Bush signed it into law in 2003. The ruling applies to over 900 Planned Parenthood clinics and their doctors.

In 54 countries (61% of the world population) abortions are legal.
In 97 countries (39% of the world population) abortions are illegal.
There are approximately 46 million abortions conducted eacy year, 20 million of them obtained illegally.
There are approximately 126,000 abortions conducted each day.

Age - The majority of women getting an abortion are young. 52% are younger than 25 years old and 19% are teenagers. The abortion rate is highest for those women aged 18 to 19 (56 per 1,000 in 1992.)
Marriage - 51% of women who are unmarried when they become pregnant will receive an abortion. Unmarried women are 6 times more likely than married women to have an abortion. 67% of abortions are from women who have never been married.
Race - 63% of abortion patients are white, however, black women are more than 3 times as likely to have an abortion, and Hispanic women are 2.5 times as likely.
Religion - 43% of women getting an abortion claimed they were Protestant, while 27% claimed they were Catholic.

25.5% of women deciding to have an abortion want to postpone childbearing.
21.3% of women cannot afford a baby.
14.1% of women have a relationship issue or their partner does not want a child.
12.2% of women are too young (their parents or others object to the pregnancy.)
10.8% of women feel a child will disrupt their education or career.
7.9% of women want no (more) children.
3.3% of women have an abortion due to a risk to fetal health.
2.8% of women have an abortion due to a risk to maternal heal

54% of women having an abortion said they used some form of contraception during the month they became pregnant.
90% of women who are at risk for unplanned pregnancies are using contraception
8% of women having an abortion say they have never used contraception.
It is possible that up to 43% of the decline in abortion from 1994-2000 can be attributed to using emergency contraception.

According to a USA Today, CNN Gallup Poll in May, 1999 - 16% of Americans believe abortion should be legal for any reason at any time during pregnancy and 55% of American believe abortion should be legal only to save the life of the mother or in cases of rape or incest.
According to a Gallup Poll in January, 2001 - People who considered themselves to be pro-life rose from 33% to 43% in the past 5 years, and people who considered themselves to be pro-choice declined from 56% to 48%.

It would be interesting to see the percentages correlating when they had the abortion, in weeks of gestation.

It would be interesting to see the percentages correlating when they had the abortion, in weeks of gestation.
http://www.abortionfacts.com/statistics/gestation.asp

my biggest argument is this. if we make abortions illegal, abortions will not stop. they will go underground, into shadey, messy clinics and not only will you have the fetus to worry about, but now the mother.

its like prostitution and drugs, keep it legal so you can regulate it. at least then we can garuntee the safety of the woman in question.

partial birth abortions are murder. end of question. if it can live when it exists the womb, its murder.

The logic that abortions will continue even if they are outlawed is flawed in many ways. Murder is outlawed yet people still do it - so by your logic, why outlaw murder? Or rape.... or theft... :rolleyes:

----------------------

The fact is that a fetus is living. You were one once. Take a moment and ask your mother if she was considering having you sucked out a straw. I know I could have been. Abortions were not legal when I was born. Roe V Wade was still a couple years off. My mother was a teenager. She chose adoption. I've never met her (though my parents knew her), but I would thank her for giving me life.

All it amounts to is that people make up excuses to slaughter the unborn. They try and rationalize it. If abortion is simply for convenience, then infanticide should be legal as well. :disappoin

Looked boingo, don't tlkaed to me about abortions 'cause I almost was apart of one and by that I mean my mother almost got one on me!!!

I don't have sex so that could create a problem with me leavin' options open.

So one lady has had 7, she doesn't quite represent the nation.Yes, I said in the 3rd trimester it should be illegal, but you've yet to explain any real reason for there to be law. Just a bunch of stupid facts about birth. A law requires more than facts, it requires reason and there is where you lack.

Now come back when you actually have an arguement...

And by my last statement in which you quoted me, wtf does thta have anything to do with? I said I don't like them and I've said I wouldn't have one unless the mother's life was in trouble, so I'm glad you've read my other posts b4 sayin' I'm leavin' options in case I knock someone up. But to help clarify for those that only understand facts...describe what life truly then there can be protection againist it. NO one has made a truth as to what life is, when are you living etc. Get it now??? Good, now go find your arguement 'n you'll be set to come back...

..
So one lady has had 7, she doesn't quite represent the nation.Yes, I said in the 3rd trimester it should be illegal, but you've yet to explain any real reason for there to be law. Just a bunch of stupid facts about birth. A law requires more than facts, it requires reason and there is where you lack.

Now come back when you actually have an arguement...

And by my last statement in which you quoted me, wtf does thta have anything to do with? I said I don't like them and I've said I wouldn't have one unless the mother's life was in trouble, so I'm glad you've read my other posts b4 sayin' I'm leavin' options in case I knock someone up. But to help clarify for those that only understand facts...describe what life truly then there can be protection againist it. NO one has made a truth as to what life is, when are you living etc. Get it now??? Good, now go find your arguement 'n you'll be set to come back...


My bad, I figured that if maybe you knew the "facts" then you'd be able to make the obvious leap with "logic" but apparently that's not the case. I'll spell it out for you.

Life, according to Miriam-Webster dictionary, is:
1 a : the quality that distinguishes a vital and functional being from a dead body b : a principle or force that is considered to underlie the distinctive quality of animate beings -- compare VITALISM 1 c : an organismic state characterized by capacity for metabolism, growth, reaction to stimuli, and reproduction
As a fetus has capacity for metabolism, growth, reaction to stimuli, and reproduction, it is therefore "alive".

Causing it to cease growing, metabolising, etc, would make it "dead"

Re: your "maybe, maybe in the third trimester remark"
A baby born at the beginning of the third trimester has a 95% chance of living. At the end of the third trimester it's like 99.5%. They perform third trimester abortions by inducing labor, delivering the baby feet-first, then stabbing it in the head whilst the head is still inside the woman.
ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS NOT STAB IT IN THE HEAD AND SUCK OUT THE BRAIN AND YOU HAVE A LIVE BIRTH!
But apparently it is legal to kill a person if their head is still inside a woman when you do it.
Should it be legal to do so? I say no. Stabbing a being capable of surving outside the womb should be illegal, whether the head's still inside the womb or no.

I don't have sex so that could create a problem with me leavin' options open.

I was about to sa, this was a pretty dead thread btw 3 people...I'm 17 and have no kids and that almost wasn't true for awhile there but I'm cleared.....

K..what? I guess that was nearly an immaculate conception then, huh? :disappoin


Will have to come back later, my husband is making me get off teh interweb. :(

yes, abortion is in a way murder.....
in a WAY??? It is totally murder! You make a choice to have sex...you get pregnant...you abort....you murder. Plain and simple.

Look, life by definition in a dictionary is not life defined by law.

Law must create its own definition. There has yet to be a concenus as to what it is. I'd think you'd know that...

Re: your "maybe, maybe in the third trimester remark"
A baby born at the beginning of the third trimester has a 95% chance of living. At the end of the third trimester it's like 99.5%. They perform third trimester abortions by inducing labor, delivering the baby feet-first, then stabbing it in the head whilst the head is still inside the woman.
ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS NOT STAB IT IN THE HEAD AND SUCK OUT THE BRAIN AND YOU HAVE A LIVE BIRTH!
But apparently it is legal to kill a person if their head is still inside a woman when you do it.
Should it be legal to do so? I say no. Stabbing a being capable of surving outside the womb should be illegal, whether the head's still inside the womb or no.


You'd think that if someone carried a baby for that far along, she'd have the sense to give birth and adopt it out. That's just disgusting :(

As for my opinion on abortion, I'm against it except for in cases of rape. If you believe you're responsible enough to be having sex, you should be responsible enough for the consequences. I don't think governments should have the right to choose whether it's legal or illegal though.

[QUOTE=YogsVR4]The logic that abortions will continue even if they are outlawed is flawed in many ways. Murder is outlawed yet people still do it - so by your logic, why outlaw murder? Or rape.... or theft... :rolleyes:


i know its wicked late (sorry) but i needed to reply to this.

i was not saying we should legalize things that people do even if they are illegal.

i was saying we should keep a medical procedure legal in order to keep it regulated and safe. its like tattoo's (in a way, bear with me). in prison, it is illegal to get one done, 50% of the people that get prison tattoos get hepatitis of some sort. a much smaller percentage of people that get them done in pro shops get hep (in fact, its pretty much been eleminated in big city areas).

just an example.

I don't think governments should have the right to choose whether it's legal or illegal though.

sorry for the double post, but

:werd:

As for my opinion on abortion, I'm against it except for in cases of rape. If you believe you're responsible enough to be having sex, you should be responsible enough for the consequences. I don't think governments should have the right to choose whether it's legal or illegal though.
That's my whole thinking of it too. In today's society people always find the easy way out of everything and abortion is the prime example. Abortion, except in select cases, is a cop out. If you're not ready for a baby or can't afford one then have sex responsibly or DON'T FUCK!

If the mother has the right to chose the child shouldn't we ask the baby if he wants to chose the mother

Back a little bit to what Boingo said if it is legal to kill a baby by stabbing it in the head while the head is in the mother yet, that leaves options for murderers. Bad grammer. My point is if this is what people's logic is, not you Boingo, then why can you just steal a dead woman's body, cut her belly open, and stab someone in the head. You get away with murder and get charged with theft of a body. Much less jail time. ??????????

I'm sure I will get a :wtf: for that. Makes sense though if that is what people think.

I think the law views an unborn child as just tissue that belongs to the mother.(weird I know) So unless you can get a living mother to ingest the person you want to stab in the head then I think there may be problems.

I know just throwing a point out there. People are just looking for excuses. From the time the baby has a heart beat it is a person. Don't give a damn if it's in the mother or not, it's murder.