new to car audio, need help

hey guys, im new to car audio and need the most bass for my buck. i have a few questions if you guys have time, id appreciate if you answered them. how can i make my setup the most powerful? what brand makes the best subs/amps and also reasonable ones? how can i tell if the amp would be able to power the subs? also, my sis drives a '03 accord and she has two subs in the back. when turns them reasonably high, the trunk rattles. what can we do to prevent this? thanks guys.

Well first, what kind of music do you listen to, do you care how good the subs sound or do you just want them to get loud, and how big is your budget?

As for the trunk rattle, she just needs some sound deadening on the trunk lid. Check out secondskin, edead, rammat, brownbread, and b-quiet for various mass-loading style deadeners.

i listen to hip-hop and want it loud so i can turn heads, but to a certain extant where the sound is clear. I was also thinking maybe having someone mount it under the backseats since its not a hatchback. i have a budget of about $500-700. thanks for the help on the rattling.

a major part of a system is the box. if you get a quality bandpass box your system will undoubtedly sound better. after that a couple 10's or 12's with a nice powerfull amp and you will be in business

don't get a bandpass... 89prix, if you don't even know what an ohm is, please don't try to help members on here. If you want a bandpass to work properly, you need to get a 300 dollar eq and need to know how to set it for that box using your ears or a testing instrument. I would suggest you get a single ported 8,10,12,15. Most likely a 12. I would get a 13kv2, the 12inch new model from Elemental designs with the combo that adds the nine.2 amplifier. Also I would make your own box or have it custom built. You will want to build the ported box which can be found under the product list on their site www.edesingaudio.com (http://www.edesingaudio.com) , if you need help finding the combo sale, tell me. To build a box you will want to use 3/4"mdf board and seal it off with silcon sealer. Also try using a nail gun, if you can sand all the edges with an electrical sander, it will halp the sealing.

Dude where have you come up with your ideas on bandpass enclosures? You do not need a 300 dollar eq to make one sound good...you do not need any other xovers like you have said in the past. A bandpass enclosure can sound as good as any other enclosure....it is all in the design. Just like any other enclosure. Except a bandpass is more difficult to design and has to have a much closer tolerance when building than a sealed ot ported enclosure. Also a bandpass encloure is a xover. Hence the name bandpass...the enclosure only allows certain frequencys to pass through the port. Another fun fact is the names used for bandpass enclosures. Like 4th order...a sealed enclosure firing into a ported enclosure. The name "4th order" really describes a 4th order xover...a "4th order" bandpass enclosure reacts in a very simular way to a 4th order xover. Actually that type of enclosure is a single reflex bandpass.
On box building 3/4" MDF is good but a nail gun? You use a nail gun when you build a roof. Use a staple gun when you build a cabinet. The most important part you left out was the glue. Nails,staples,or screws hold the cabinet together till the glue dries. I have built several cabinets using no fasterners besides the ones that hold the sub in place. What does sanding the edges have to do with the box sealing? If you make all the cuts square then there is no need to sand anything.

Damn I forgot something. n_samedi on your sisters car there are a few things you can try on the trunk that are free.On the two outer corners of the trunk there are rubber stoppers. Those are adjustable. The latch in the center is adjustable also. What you can do is adjust those three things till the trunk close very tight. You have to lower the latch part that is inside the trunk and first raise the rubber stoppers. When you get the latch lowered to the point where you can still latch the trunk you lower the stoppers to push the trunk back up a little so it is flush with the quarterpanels. Then ofcourse you can use sound deadning materials.

yeah, I know I left a few things out on building. Also, I have yet to hear a first time person come out with a properly built bandpass. Also, bandpass sounds like crap SQ wise, cause it leaves out frequencies... I was saying the EQ only for the people that can't build it right. I have yet to build a right one myself anyhow.

If you have not heard a properly built bandpass then how are you going to say they sound like crap? Ofcourse a bandpass is going to leave out frequencies...all enclosures do. That is what they are designed for. It is the job of the installer to make sure there are other speakers to pick up where the sub leaves off. There is not an eq in the world that is going to fix a bandpass that is not built correctly.

yes, but bandpasses leave out random frequencies, not like subsonic ones or mids, they have these random spikes. An EQ will help get rid of peaks in there and make it a more rounded response.

Spikes? Random frequencies? Have you ever looked at a bandpass on an RTA? Matter of fact have you ever seen an RTA? A bandpass enclosure does not spike or "leave out" frequnceys inside it range anymore than any other enclosure does. Every single enclosure or speaker in the car is going to have high and low spots that has to with the accoustics of the car and not the enclosure. Unless you build the enclosure to compensate for the problems of the car.

Well, we all have to start somewhere...

n_samedi, IMHO - you're doin' the right thing by asking for advice. But you're gonna find a lot of different opinions out there. :-) Keep askin' questions...

For some basic info to get started with, try www.bcae1.com (http://www.bcae1.com)

Go visit the installers in your area and ask their opinion on setups for your particular vehicle - you'll find most of them happy to help. It also helps if you're able to tell people what you want to do - SQ (sound quality)? SPL (sound pressure level - aka LOUD! lol)? and what kind of music you like to listen to...

Ask, Audition, Ask Again, then plunge in...

Lastly,I don't know of anyone who had a "perfect" setup the first time out - but it's always fun to learn and then firgure out what to do next.

Good luck!

guys ..... a bandpass box is just a higher order ported box. As such, they are far more sensitive to variances in speakers and box design. A poorly designed higher order anything (box, crossover, ect ... ) will usually sound pretty crappy. A bandpass box (at least a correctly built one) doesn't leave out frequencies or have bad impedance spikes IN THE FREQUENCY RANGE IT WAS DESIGNED FOR. That last condition is VERY important. If you design it to be a true sub box, it will have a relatively narrow range of frequencies in it's passband, so I would assume a good midbass would be a necessity.

realistically speaking, i haven't heard a "really good" sounding bandpass box, nothing even close to the same sub with a sealed box, tho there is increased volume it loses some clarity, i would just buy a sub and call the manufacturer and build a box to fit their specifications, that is what i did to my comp VR and it bumps pretty hard for just one sub in a vented box, anyways the box IS really important, but i would never recommend a bandpass box, and if he says he;s a newb to car audio, what makes you think he can make a box? i've seen it to many times, you guys tell the newbs to make a box, shit i still don't make my own boxes, its not as easy as you think when u know nothing of how to make the correct size box n etc

Bandpass boxes can sound good, just like Paul and Vette have said though, it needs to be built (and above all, designed) very very well. Most people have only heard prefab bandpass boxes, just like prefab ported boxes these are 1) not built for the specific sub (normally) and 2) built to get very loud at a few frequencies to give the "wow" effect, while ultimately giving you a horrible response curve. Just like with ported boxes, if you want to build an effective bandpass box with good sound quality, you have to design and build it yourself, the only difference is the bandpass will be much harder than the ported box.

Now, back to the facts, aznxthuggie - building a box is easier than you think, give it a try, you might be surprised. Lets see, all the enclosure sizes we give are in cubic feet, by definition this is a cube where each side is one foot long. To get the volume of the box you just take the lengths of the sides (in feet), making sure to subtract the thickness of the wood, and multiply them together, thats it. If you have a box that is 2' x 1.5' x 1', it will be 3 cubic feet, pretty simple. Then you just add in a little extra volume (make the box a little bigger, how much bigger depends on the specific sub you're using) to account for the space taken up by the sub itself, and you're golden.

PaulD...you refer to the bandpass as a higher order. Technically that is not true. Cabinets were started to be labeled in orders due to their simularity to a certain order xover. So calling a bandpass a "4th order" is really using an applied term that was given through time but not a true definition. I guess you could call it slang. Now bandpass enclosure have been given a bad rap in SQ circles due to they are really intended to provide a high amount of output at a given frequency. The higher the output at that frequency the narrower the bandwidth. But if you widen the bandwidth the frequency spike will drop and you can have a good sounding bandpass. Or as was said you can use a very strong midbass driver(s) to fill the gap to the midrange. On the flip side if you build a bandpass to have a wideband you are defeating the purpose of using that type of enclosure and creating a overly large enclosure. One that will give the same results as a smaller ported or sealed enclosure. Either way you can still build a bandpass enclosure that has good sound quality charcterists...I know. I have done it. Do I recommend it....no. Personally I prefer sealed enclosures but that is entirely different conversation. :)

And that right there tells me exactly what I was trying to get across, but also a few things I didn't know, like how you could have a good level bandpass.

Bandpass boxes can sound good, just like Paul and Vette have said though, it needs to be built (and above all, designed) very very well. Most people have only heard prefab bandpass boxes, just like prefab ported boxes these are 1) not built for the specific sub (normally) and 2) built to get very loud at a few frequencies to give the "wow" effect, while ultimately giving you a horrible response curve. Just like with ported boxes, if you want to build an effective bandpass box with good sound quality, you have to design and build it yourself, the only difference is the bandpass will be much harder than the ported box.

Now, back to the facts, aznxthuggie - building a box is easier than you think, give it a try, you might be surprised. Lets see, all the enclosure sizes we give are in cubic feet, by definition this is a cube where each side is one foot long. To get the volume of the box you just take the lengths of the sides (in feet), making sure to subtract the thickness of the wood, and multiply them together, thats it. If you have a box that is 2' x 1.5' x 1', it will be 3 cubic feet, pretty simple. Then you just add in a little extra volume (make the box a little bigger, how much bigger depends on the specific sub you're using) to account for the space taken up by the sub itself, and you're golden.

hmm lets say i do find out what kind of box i need, and the dimensions and everything, since i am going to buy wood frmo home depot, do u think it'll be easier if i just pay them to cut it, i think its a little $ per cut, they do all the cutting, you give them the specs/dimensions? also.. what do u have planned for your audio overhaul? or will we know when your done heh

hmm lets say i do find out what kind of box i need, and the dimensions and everything, since i am going to buy wood frmo home depot, do u think it'll be easier if i just pay them to cut it, i think its a little $ per cut, they do all the cutting, you give them the specs/dimensions? also.. what do u have planned for your audio overhaul? or will we know when your done heh

Home Depot cuts aren't very accurate. I'm sure if you give the guy a few extra bucks and tell him to make it exact he will, but normally they just get it close and cut away. The few cuts I've had them make have all been 1/8 to 1/4" off, which will REALLY screw up your box.

And I'll post a thread when it's all done, ordering the first piece in about 3 days and it should take around a month to finish (it sucks building a system from paycheck to paycheck).

sr20de4evr....is correct and it is very sad too. Since all the Home Depots here have panel saws, which are much more accurate,safer,and easier to use than a table saw. It is really sad that most of the employees can not make a square cut with one.

wow, thanks for the responses guys. i didnt mean to bring up so much drama, lol, but i appreciate all your opinions. thanks again.

wow, thanks for the responses guys. i didnt mean to bring up so much drama, lol, but i appreciate all your opinions. thanks again.

heh its ok we do this all the time, im a newb also =D

PaulD...you refer to the bandpass as a higher order. Technically that is not true. Cabinets were started to be labeled in orders due to their simularity to a certain order xover. So calling a bandpass a "4th order" is really using an applied term that was given through time but not a true definition. I guess you could call it slang

Actually, it's a very accurate term - a fourth order box has a roll off very similiar in nature to a 4th order crossover. It's just a natural transition. The very nature of the thiele/small parameters was to model a box/speaker program as electronic components in a circuit. It can very accurately predict the performance of a box/speaker in a large room. The trick has been to take into account that a car's bass sysytem is enclosed in a realitively small enclosure.

Damn I forgot something. n_samedi on your sisters car there are a few things you can try on the trunk that are free.On the two outer corners of the trunk there are rubber stoppers. Those are adjustable. The latch in the center is adjustable also. What you can do is adjust those three things till the trunk close very tight. You have to lower the latch part that is inside the trunk and first raise the rubber stoppers. When you get the latch lowered to the point where you can still latch the trunk you lower the stoppers to push the trunk back up a little so it is flush with the quarterpanels. Then ofcourse you can use sound deadning materials.

that worked so well, thanks. the latch didnt move too much but i think its the rubber stoppers that did the trick. there is no more rattling and my sis isnt embarassed to turn her sound up! thanks!

sweet n_samedi....glad it worked for her.