d16z6

would it be worth the money, to fix up a d16z6 on a 92-95 civic HB, i was going to see if u could supercharge it
and would it be worth it.
thanx

if its a SOHC V-tec head, my answer to you is to port the head out and boost up your fuel pressure. i have a 97 civic ex with a ported head and it took my from 127hp to about 162hp. i can run with an Si, infact its first car i had to race. its also cheaper then dropping in a b16. as far as super charging goes, you'd need to reinforce the bottom end of the engine, and since your doin that you might as well bore it from 1.6 to 1.8.

Originally posted by grncivicdhr
if its a SOHC V-tec head, my answer to you is to port the head out and boost up your fuel pressure. i have a 97 civic ex with a ported head and it took my from 127hp to about 162hp. i can run with an Si, infact its first car i had to race. its also cheaper then dropping in a b16. as far as super charging goes, you'd need to reinforce the bottom end of the engine, and since your doin that you might as well bore it from 1.6 to 1.8. Wow, who the hell ported your head to gain you 35hp??? Geesh, thats insane... Very cool though, maybe I can port and polish my CX motor and be able to hang with a DX ;) :devil:

Originally posted by grncivicdhr
if its a SOHC V-tec head, my answer to you is to port the head out and boost up your fuel pressure. i have a 97 civic ex with a ported head and it took my from 127hp to about 162hp. i can run with an Si, infact its first car i had to race. its also cheaper then dropping in a b16. as far as super charging goes, you'd need to reinforce the bottom end of the engine, and since your doin that you might as well bore it from 1.6 to 1.8.
How much did it cost you to port that head? I gotta do that. How long did it take?!? I have a 97 Civic EX as well and I WANT MORE HP!!! That kicks ass b/c I really don't want to spend $1200 on getting a B16.

Originally posted by grncivicdhr
if its a SOHC V-tec head, my answer to you is to port the head out and boost up your fuel pressure. i have a 97 civic ex with a ported head and it took my from 127hp to about 162hp. i can run with an Si, infact its first car i had to race. its also cheaper then dropping in a b16. as far as super charging goes, you'd need to reinforce the bottom end of the engine, and since your doin that you might as well bore it from 1.6 to 1.8.


and exactly what kind of cam were you using with that to get that increase?

oh by the way if you can increase the displacement of a d16 to 1.8 liters by simply boring out the cylinders i would love to see how long it runs, that is if you dont bore the cylinder walls out into the water jacket or into each other first.

if you are an able body mechanic you can get a D16z6 up top around 400hp for about $1500 N/A this motor really isnt best with FI try looking into getting some Gude 11.5:1 pistons, and cams, then port your head and doa 5 angle valve job on the intake ans 3 angle on the exhaust these motors are pretty impresive most peoplel just pass them by not knowing there full potential

i also have a d16z6 and i never really considered motor work like porting. ive been thinking about FI but now im having second thoughts after hearing about his 35 hp boost. how much does something like that cost and where is a good place in soCal to get it done.

umm would that work for my 92 dx d15b7 i think thats an overstatement if you could get more hp out of the single cam with just a port job honda would just make that engine the one for the type r theyde be like screewwe makin a new block when we can just machine these crap motors and make the same power as an si.

damn, now you people got me thinking too. :uhoh:

i bought it as a complete engine after my stock engine burned out. its from a company in lancaster california called DH-racing, which is not out of business unfortunatelty, the owner focuses a bit more on his racing now. by the way i have a civic ex, not a dx, its SOHC vtec. as far as the cam goes, its stock however i i am lookin around for a cam with a bit higher lift to compliment the porting, i'm not sure waht route to take for that and if i'd have to work the valve train too, ie... the springs and all. if anyone has any answers for that help out. ohh and the only other mods to my car to date are an AEM cold air intake, high flow cat., a fuel pressure regulator (adjusted to 45psi), an AEM adjustable cam gear(retarded 2 degrees, i plan on playin around with that) and my ignition timing is set to 17 degrees.

Originally posted by grncivicdhr
i bought it as a complete engine after my stock engine burned out. its from a company in lancaster california called DH-racing, which is not out of business unfortunatelty, the owner focuses a bit more on his racing now. by the way i have a civic ex, not a dx, its SOHC vtec. as far as the cam goes, its stock however i i am lookin around for a cam with a bit higher lift to compliment the porting, i'm not sure waht route to take for that and if i'd have to work the valve train too, ie... the springs and all. if anyone has any answers for that help out. ohh and the only other mods to my car to date are an AEM cold air intake, high flow cat., a fuel pressure regulator (adjusted to 45psi), an AEM adjustable cam gear(retarded 2 degrees, i plan on playin around with that) and my ignition timing is set to 17 degrees.
What's your 1/8 mile time or 1/4 mile time?

Originally posted by grncivicdhr
i have a 97 civic ex with a ported head and it took my from 127hp to about 162hp. i can run with an Si, infact its first car i had to race.

:lol2:


just a question:

Did you come up with your HP rating because you beat a 160hp car?

you don't even get that when you port the head on an LS1

The D16 engine is great for FI due to the relatively low compression rate... You can run moderate amounts of boost w/o having to replace all internal engine parts.

umm they arent that great....the most ive seen one take without any internal work was puttin out 180ish to the wheel before it had a meltdown. im sure with some fine tuning it could lay more down but the safety and reliability factor would be a major concern for myself.

Originally posted by SRHguru
The D16 engine is great for FI due to the relatively low compression rate... You can run moderate amounts of boost w/o having to replace all internal engine parts.

My friend has an intercooled Greddy turbo kit pushing 8 pounds of boost into his D16Z6 powerplant and he's run a 13.8 in the quarter. He has a stock exhaust system on the car, too. As far as I know, all the internals are also stock... but, surprisingly, the car shows some balls.


Anywayz... I just bought a D16Z6 for my car today. It's probably just going to be temporary so that I can get my car up and running again. I'm putting it in tomorrow... I'll let you know how I like it. :rolleyes: Wait... my original motor was a 1.5 liter, 8 valve, 70 hp, non vtec piece of crap... what am I saying. Of course I'll like it!

Right on Ghetto! Now you can change your model letter to EX! Or are you gonna let people think you still have a CX??:D

with all of the parts i listed in my last post why would a 30 or so hp gain be so unbelevable. its not just the head, keep in mind that i have other things doen to the car. as far as my 1/4 time...its a 160 hp car, who cars. if i considered 160 hp fast i sould have a few more stickers on my car. i used to sell Si's theres a great tuner car but i wouldn't call them fast out of the box so beating an Si in a race isn't something i'm bragging about. i grew up around V8s, my uncles chevelle SS, so it'll take alot more work til i'm impressed with my car.

Originally posted by RickDaTuner
if you are an able body mechanic you can get a D16z6 up top around 400hp for about $1500 N/A this motor really isnt best with FI

Damn, this thread gets better and better everytime I look at it. Next I'll hear my d15b7 with a 50 shot will take Ferrari's.

With SpiralMax you can get around 1000hp on 87 octane. :rolleyes:

the D16Z6 is an able motor. But will take a LOT of coaxing to get around 400hp

Originally posted by Rice-Rocketeer


Damn, this thread gets better and better everytime I look at it. Next I'll hear my d15b7 with a 50 shot will take Ferrari's. last year in honda tuning there was a guy that took his d16 and reworked the internals by himself using all gude parts he managed to get 440hp out of it N/A notjing is imposible you just have to know how to do it
one of his comments was that Hp is all compresion and fuel delivery,
i didnt beleive it myself, one of my friends kept telling me about it, i only trully beleived hom when i saw the article mabey i can pull one of the net and show you guys.
its not to say that every one who tunes the D16 will get his much out of it, just an example of what it can do!

check this guy out (http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Factory/2924/cars.html)
well i cant find the specifc issue butif some of you reacll it was a white civic hacth the guy used to live in califorinia and his mom had bough him his car

heres alittle fact for all of you DOHC people talking shit on the d16. in about the 88 or 89 season of F1 (i maybe wrong about the year but i know it was during the time that the M6 was out) BMW had a 1.3 liter SOHC F1 car that was turbo charged and made over 1100hp. the technology in the d16 would probably blow that old as engine away, so why would a high hp d16 be so unbeleivable. i don't know about 400+ hp but i do know that numbers near and over 300hp are attainable for a fact from a local shop called IMPO performance. don't quote me wrong, i'm not sayin that i'm gonna build you guys a 1100hp d16 but its a good engine to work with if you wanna do something origional and not do a B-serious like every magazine would have you beleive that you have to.

Originally posted by grncivicdhr
heres alittle fact for all of you DOHC people talking shit on the d16. in about the 88 or 89 season of F1 (i maybe wrong about the year but i know it was during the time that the M6 was out) BMW had a 1.3 liter SOHC F1 car that was turbo charged and made over 1100hp. the technology in the d16 would probably blow that old as engine away, so why would a high hp d16 be so unbeleivable. i don't know about 400+ hp but i do know that numbers near and over 300hp are attainable for a fact from a local shop called IMPO performance. don't quote me wrong, i'm not sayin that i'm gonna build you guys a 1100hp d16 but its a good engine to work with if you wanna do something origional and not do a B-serious like every magazine would have you beleive that you have to.
Proud to say that, I too, have a SOHC D16...

D16 for life!!!... Great engine to throw a turbo on!!!!

thanx guys, im prob. going to keep the d16, and fix the internals to put a turbo or supercharger on it.
thanx again.

Originally posted by RickDaTuner
last year in honda tuning there was a guy that took his d16 and reworked the internals by himself using all gude parts he managed to get 440hp out of it N/A notjing is imposible you just have to know how to do it
one of his comments was that Hp is all compresion and fuel delivery,
i didnt beleive it myself, one of my friends kept telling me about it, i only trully beleived hom when i saw the article mabey i can pull one of the net and show you guys.
its not to say that every one who tunes the D16 will get his much out of it, just an example of what it can do!

You know what the key to power is in a naturally aspirated enviorment? Displacement. The D16 isn't exactly overflowing with extra room there.

No, nothing is impossible but I can tell you one thing, unless you can make the pistons by hand, it is HIGHLY improbable that you can get 400 hp NA out of most ANY honda engine, let alone a D16 for $1500. Do you know what you'd need to do? First off you'd need to get the entire thing resleeved. MAKE a custom billet crankshaft from scratch and then make customs rods and pistons out of something with the tinsel strength of titanium reinforced carbon kevlar. Now with the rotating assembly in the right ratio, you need to reinforce EVERY part connected to it. This includes making a new transmission and reinforcing ALL drivetrain components.

Naturally Aspirated? Well, the key to NA is headwork, how much can you flow and how well? You'd need to fully race port the head, get better valve springs and valves and get such a radical camshaft that you couldn't keep the engine on while idling.

I don't feel like going over every step you should take but among the other high dollar things you'd need, would be a fully programmable engine management system tuned and programmed by a team of honda engineers with hundreds of hours of dyno tuning.

Maybe you've heard of L'Natural? They have an NA CRX running 10's. Impressive no? They took a CRX HF and stuffed the largest displacement engine they could stuff in there, an H22A. They then resleeved it giving it 2.5 liters of displacement and raised the compression ratio to 16:1. Almost TWICE that of a D16. You know how much power it made? 250hp on $6 a gallon high octane race fuel.

Similarly engineered 8 and 9 second civics are running GSR engine, turbocharged to brink of extinction and make high 500's.

And after knowing all this, you still want to tell me that for $1500 you can get 400hp out of a NA D16???

Originally posted by grncivicdhr
heres alittle fact for all of you DOHC people talking shit on the d16. in about the 88 or 89 season of F1 (i maybe wrong about the year but i know it was during the time that the M6 was out) BMW had a 1.3 liter SOHC F1 car that was turbo charged and made over 1100hp. the technology in the d16 would probably blow that old as engine away, so why would a high hp d16 be so unbeleivable. i don't know about 400+ hp but i do know that numbers near and over 300hp are attainable for a fact from a local shop called IMPO performance. don't quote me wrong, i'm not sayin that i'm gonna build you guys a 1100hp d16 but its a good engine to work with if you wanna do something origional and not do a B-serious like every magazine would have you beleive that you have to.

Geez, no wonder fuckin domestics laugh at us. You here are actually comparing a fully race engineered F1 BMW engine with a D16? Oh and the D16 has more advanced technology.

:wave: Hi, I think you need a clue here.

Do you know how much money formula teams spend on engineering engines? Do you know the redline of an engine like that? Do you really think you can compare the amount of time and energy put into completely designing an engine like that with an economy engine like the D16?

I seriously hope I'm not wasting my breath here.

Originally posted by RickDaTuner
check this guy out (http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Factory/2924/cars.html)
well i cant find the specifc issue butif some of you reacll it was a white civic hacth the guy used to live in califorinia and his mom had bough him his car

The link doesn't work but I do remember a phenominal white hatch I put in the FAQ.

http://www.hotrod.com/editorial/article.jsp?id=22838&viewtype=text

Think you can do all that yourself?

dude, that BMW F1 engine was from the 80s, i'm sure if you compared the two, that F1 engine and the d16, those technitions back then would have been pretty impressed with the d16. i have no idea what place i have in this whole discussion, but i was tryin to make a simple point that the d16 is an able, and capable engine to make the kind of power most people on this forum are looking for. i only want maybe 250 hp out of mine using forced induction, a turbo most likely, so i know i don't need an h22 or B-series engine. as fas as the naturaly aspirated d16 makin 400hp, i'd have to see real proof of that too. i'm sorry to say that if any of use were serious about real hp we'd have V8s under our hoods, good thing i picked up that 68 mustang last month.

i know damn well of the time and money that goes into an F! engine as well is the fact that it probably had like 14000rpm red line, my main point, since you missed it while you were glorifying yourself, was that it was only 1.3 ltrs and SOHC. but thanks for stating somethin so obvious:)

Originally posted by grncivicdhr
dude, that BMW F1 engine was from the 80s, i'm sure if you compared the two, that F1 engine and the d16, those technitions back then would have been pretty impressed with the d16.

BMW has had various power cheats like the VANOS system for a while now. The only thing the D16 has is a different version of it. Sorry but D or B series honda engines are not modern miracles. And an economy engine will not by any means "kick the ass" of a smaller displacement engine designed to be a powerhouse.

Originally posted by grncivicdhr
but i was tryin to make a simple point that the d16 is an able, and capable engine to make the kind of power most people on this forum are looking for. i only want maybe 250 hp out of mine using forced induction, a turbo most likely, so i know i don't need an h22 or B-series engine. as fas as the naturaly aspirated d16 makin 400hp, i'd have to see real proof of that too. i'm sorry to say that if any of use were serious about real hp we'd have V8s under our hoods, good thing i picked up that 68 mustang last month.

You didn't state this tho. You were more or less going with the crowd mentality of D16's can be easily molded into V8 eating monsters. Of course you can strap on a turbo and do a few more things and get a decent HP rating. It can be done with most engines. As for stangs, your right. Which is why I get upset seeing ppl thinking civic engines are the end all and be all.

As for glorifying myself, hardly. I know it may seem that way to those who don't know me, but the only reason I'm still here is to knock some sense into ppl who that, because BMW has a bad-ass 1.3 liter, think they can get an intake and exhuast and start kicking some ass.

comparing honda to BMW is like comparing meatloaf to steak. Im still a proud owner of a D16 but if someone offered me a trade for a M3 i would do it in a millisecond.

what i wanna know is how would the creators of the amazing 1.3 liter bmw f1 engine be so impressed with a honda d16 anything? first off variable valve timing has been around longer then honda has made cars. so that isnt an impression factor at all. and if your gonna get dumb on me and ask why bmw didnt use it on thier f1 engines then let me explain. our so called radical cam is to extend power beyond the range of a single lobe that would run out of breath earlier on. in a race car, any of them, thier single lobe is way bigger then our radical lobe because they dont need low end. also i dont know if you follow any sort of racing or not but do you have any clue how often those engines need to be rebuilt? not exactly reliable if you ask me.

other then that your d16 is about the same as every other piston based engine out there. i mean seriously whats so different? it has a cam, rocker arms, valves, valve springs, retainers, valve guides, cam seals, cam journals, cylinder walls, cooling passages, oiling passages, pistons, rod,a crank etc you get the point.

this engine is by no means any great thing. it can handle its own but serious power production is and always will be dfined by this statement

there is no replacement for displacement

please dont even say turbo because i could show you turbo v8's and turbo v10's or turbo anything. anything you do with a d series engine i can do to another engine and make more power period.

its all about what you want. if you wanna make 200hp to the wheels in your civic then keep the d16 do a little beefing up throw a turbo on and be done with it. but if you wanna make bigger power im sorry people doing it with a d16 is going to become more and more risky and way more costly every step you take then if you started with a bigger displacement engine. i suggest you do a little more reading up on d16's before you think you can turn one into a 400hp naturally aspirated monster thats functional.

Originally posted by Rice-Rocketeer


You know what the key to power is in a naturally aspirated enviorment? Displacement. The D16 isn't exactly overflowing with extra room there.

No, nothing is impossible but I can tell you one thing, unless you can make pistons by hand, it is HIGHLY improbable that you can get 400 hp NA out of most ANY honda engine, let alone a D16. Do you know what you'd need to do? First off you'd need to get the entire thing resleeved. MAKE a custom billet crankshaft from scratch and then make customs rods and pistons out of something with the tinsel strength of titanium reinforced carbon kevlar. Now with the rotating assembly in the right ratio, you need to reinforce EVERY part connected to it. This includes making a new transmission and reinforcing ALL drivetrain components.

Naturally Aspirated? Well, the key to NA is headwork, how much can you flow and how well? You'd need to fully race port the head, get better valve springs and valves and get such a radical camshaft that you couldn't keep the engine on while idling.

I don't feel like going over every step you should take but among the other high dollar things you'd need, would be a fully programmable engine management system tuned and programmed by a team of honda engineers with hundreds of hours of dyno tuning.

Maybe you've heard of L'Natural? They have an NA CRX running 10's. Impressive no? They took a CRX HF and stuffed the largest displacement engine they could stuff in there, an H22A. They then resleeved it giving it 2.5 liters of displacement and raised the compression ratio to 16:1. Almost TWICE that of a D16. You know how much power it made? 250hp on $6 a gallon high octane race fuel.

Similarly engineered 8 and 9 second civics are running GSR engine, turbocharged to brink of extinction and make high 500's.

And after knowing all this, you still want to tell me that for $1500 you can get 400hp out of a NA D16???

in not gonna challenge your intellegence what im saying came out of a honda tuning mag man read up Gude(bulfrog racing) did a nice job on that engine all the guy did was ask them for the parts and he installed them himself he told them what he wan ted and the built it to spec dont be foolish and say it cant be done your only hindering your own advancement it he sport ima get that magazine and show you the article how are you! gonna sit ther and tell me they only made 250Hp out of A NA prelude engine thats pretty sad i tuning if you ask me mna i think you needto go over the facts man

oh and dont forget most if not all of the guys running NA hondas in those drags like el'natural have thier rockers bridged so the car only runs on the high cam. totally not streetable

:argue:
DIVERSITY...
that is what it all boils down to. What would this world be, if everyone was the same color and thought the same way?

The whole reason that racing has classes is to give an equal opportunity to all racers. This car is this fast, with this much hp, and that many/type of modifications. You wouldn't want to watch a funny car race a yugo, would you?

SOHC's are a bit under rated.

BisiEzerioha's 89 CRX HF was featured in SuperStreet in Sept. 00. He was running 12's at this time (I wish that I had a hp rating for you). Here is a list of what he had under the hood.

88 D15B6 block (blue printed)
12.7:1 compression JE pistons (custom domed with no peak)
XC series piston rings
shot peened and resized D15B6 Honda connecting rods
DX head with welded combustion chambers
5-angle valve job
raised intake ports
port job by RSmotorworks and BisimotoEngineering
Bisimoto camshaft, valve springs, and crankcase evacuation system
RSmotorworks racing valves
TWM D series intake manifold
Mikuni PHH 44mm individual throttle bodies
Holley fuel pump and regulator
DCsports 4-2-1 street header
custom exhaust
MSD 6AK ignition box
NGK spark plugs
Accel spark plug wires
D16 tranny with custom Bisimoto gearing
Action 6-puck clutch

Granted this guy is an engineer and owns Bisimoto. He was also in good cahoots with some other places and got some very good deals...like free stuff. It is impressive.

I have nothing against B series engines. Actually, when my wife gets a new car I am taking her 98 civic DX hatch and putting a B18 in it. I will still keep the D16 in the 93 4door. I like that it is the stock motor for that generation...and it is not all that slow. It works for my class.

Can't we all just get along?

Originally posted by RickDaTuner
dont be foolish and say it cant be done your only hindering your own advancement it he sport ima get that magazine and show you the article how are you! gonna sit ther and tell me they only made 250Hp out of A NA prelude engine thats pretty sad i tuning if you ask me mna i think you needto go over the facts man

Ok how about this, When you stop reading magazines and start learning about actual engine dynamics, then you can tell me something like that.