Nick Berg's Death

Not sure if it's been posted yet but has anyone seen the video??? It's under link removed by moderator. I hear that's it's horrifying to watch, 2 mins of pain.

I'm not sure as to what to say to all this but what do ya'll think? Ya know, it's said that it was done b/c of the pics taken of the Iraqi prisoners doing degrading poses etc. I haven't went to it 'cause i just found out about it n I'm at school but there is a lot of people going with the, "This is so not the same as making people pose embarassingly..."

this is just going to lead to retaliation by our soldiers on POW's.

I've seen it.

"2 mins of pain" is a stretch, most of the video is of him sitting on the floor in restraints while one of the 5 guys standing behind him reads from something. The last 30 seconds is where the execution takes place.

As for the feelings it evoked in me...I'm not even going to start becuse I'd be flamed to hell and back. Suffice to say I want to go get my gun and a plane ticket.

I don't know that there is even a place for this on AF, especially not a link to the video.
I don't care how horrific it may be, show the guy some respect, he lost his life trying to help people.

i saw the vid. it's quite gruesome. the fact that you can hear Berg scream when they start hacking away at his head makes it even more horrifying. they also hold his head up to the camera afterwards. watch the vid if you think you can handle it...other wise, don't

No - I have not seen it and I do not want to.













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I don't know that there is even a place for this on AF, especially not a link to the video.
I don't care how horrific it may be, show the guy some respect, he lost his life trying to help people.

And yet Taranaki beleaves he deserves it because he's American. He's made it perfectly clear that having your head cut off isn't nearly as bad as having naked photos taken of you. Crazy how that works. :disappoin

I've seen it.

"2 mins of pain" is a stretch, most of the video is of him sitting on the floor in restraints while one of the 5 guys standing behind him reads from something. The last 30 seconds is where the execution takes place.

As for the feelings it evoked in me...I'm not even going to start becuse I'd be flamed to hell and back. Suffice to say I want to go get my gun and a plane ticket.
thats how I feel about this.

Some people are so stupid. One side kills a person, and that justifies the other side to kill a person, which justifies one side to kill a person, and that justifies the other side to kill a person,which justifies one side to kill a person, and that justifies the other side to kill a person,which justifies one side to kill a person, and that justifies the other side to kill a person,which justifies one side to kill a person, and that justifies the other side to kill a person,which justifies one side to kill a person, and that justifies the other side to kill a person,which justifies one side to kill a person, and that justifies the other side to kill a person,which justifies one side to kill a person, and that justifies the other side to kill a person,which justifies one side to kill a person, and that justifies the other side to kill a person,which justifies one side to kill a person, and that justifies the other side to kill a person...
It doesn't make me want to kill anybody, if anything though it makes me want to go over there and administer shock therapy to those who did this. Of course if they feel one life is punishment enough - fine, they better not kill anymore people because they're running out of excuses of why to do it.

Killing seems to be part of human nature we humans have only killed each other from Day 1. Happy and sunshine filled no real yes.

They would of killed Mr. Berg for another reason if they didn't use the prisoner pictures. Yes I have seen the video. What religion or laws of a country say that its ok to kill an innocent person in this fashion or any other fashion? And the people who say its President Bush's fault this happened are wrong! These thugs kill people all the time. It wasn't Bush's fault 9-11 happened too, so don't blame him for it blame the thug who hacked off Mr. berg's head. I hope he gets the same treatment except I hope it lasts longer than 30 seconds.

I for one will not be watching that video. I can go without watching a man die, thanks.

And yet Taranaki beleaves he deserves it because he's American. He's made it perfectly clear that having your head cut off isn't nearly as bad as having naked photos taken of you. Crazy how that works. :disappoin

Your avatar says it all for you.You are clearly clueless.Mr Berg exposed himself to unneccesary risk against the advice of his government.He was probably a hostage in mid-April,long before the disgusting behaviour of US guards was publicised.

It doesn't matter whether Mr Berg was American,Welsh,Albanian or Chinese,he died horribly,but could have avoided it. I hold the US government and other Republican apologists in contempt for their blatant use of his death for propaganda purposes.Don't bother referring to my posts if you are going to twist them for your own bigoted motives.

Haven't seen, don't plan on it either. It's horrible that someone had to meet his end in such a way.

I think we should blame Bush and Rumsfeld.

Don't bother referring to my posts if you are going to twist them for your own bigoted motives.

Bigoted? Please, I work with more people of different cultures on a daily basis than you probably see in a month.

Don't bother referring to my posts if you are going to twist them for your own bigoted motives.
"Hello, Kettle. This is Pot.....You one black mofo!!"

"Hello, Kettle. This is Pot.....You one black mofo!!"


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: That was freakin' hilarious!!!!!!!!

Well...I hope that cheap shot was worth it.It would seem that in your relatively short time at AF,your output has degenerated into a series of pointless shit-stirring remarks in this forum,largely directed at me.Well sorry,old son,I don't feel a need to put up with it.You have been warned several times by mods of all political persuasions...Take two weeks off to consider your obnoxious attitude and to devise a more sociable persona should you wish to return.

Well...I hope that cheap shot was worth it.It would seem that in your relatively short time at AF,your output has degenerated into a series of pointless shit-stirring remarks in this forum,largely directed at me.Well sorry,old son,I don't feel a need to put up with it.You have been warned several times by mods of all political persuasions...Take two weeks off to consider your obnoxious attitude and to devise a more sociable persona should you wish to return.


I have to agree with Naki, and I am a totally different polotocal persuasion! If you can't keep it civil you don't belong here.

. I hold the US government and other Republican apologists in contempt for their blatant use of his death for propaganda purposes..

??????????????? Who do you hold in contempt for the blatant use of the Iraqi prisoners mistreatment for propaganda purposes? Democrats and the Canadain govt?

This incident serves to graphically illustrate the absolute evil that our troops are trying to eradicate. These people are no different than the Nazi SS that indiscriminately killed anyone that wasn't a member of the master race. They want to return the entire world to the 12 century and will kill anyone who disagrees or stands in their way. Anyone who attempts to appease or negotiate with them is percieved as weak and will become a target. Our entire nation and culture according to them need to be slaugthered like sheep. Hopefully the majority of Iraqis are not like this bunch, because, I fear the only thing that will convince them to let the world live in peace is a large caliber attitiude adjuster. Even the normal political process here before a presidential election, with the mud-slinging, etc., will encourage them because they will interpet it as a weakening of our country's resolve. No matter who ends up in the White House, our only choice is to keep going after them with every means at our disposal. If we don't, there will be thousands more murdered like Mr. Berg. WE must keep our focus on destroying the evil at hand, not on the stupidity of a few troops serving as prison guards. It is incredible that there is all this outrage in Europe over the so called humiliation of prisoners scandal, but, none in their press about the Berg incident. This is same bunch who thought they could negotiate their way out of a confrontation with Adolph Hitler in the 1930's. Apparently they've forgotten that those who ignore the teachings of history are doomed to repeat it.

This incident serves to graphically illustrate the absolute evil that our troops are trying to eradicate. These people are no different than the Nazi SS that indiscriminately killed anyone that wasn't a member of the master race. They want to return the entire world to the 12 century and will kill anyone who disagrees or stands in their way. Anyone who attempts to appease or negotiate with them is percieved as weak and will become a target. Our entire nation and culture according to them need to be slaugthered like sheep. Hopefully the majority of Iraqis are not like this bunch, because, I fear the only thing that will convince them to let the world live in peace is a large caliber attitiude adjuster. Even the normal political process here before a presidential election, with the mud-slinging, etc., will encourage them because they will interpet it as a weakening of our country's resolve. No matter who ends up in the White House, our only choice is to keep going after them with every means at our disposal. If we don't, there will be thousands more murdered like Mr. Berg. WE must keep our focus on destroying the evil at hand, not on the stupidity of a few troops serving as prison guards. It is incredible that there is all this outrage in Europe over the so called humiliation of prisoners scandal, but, none in their press about the Berg incident. This is same bunch who thought they could negotiate their way out of a confrontation with Adolph Hitler in the 1930's. Apparently they've forgotten that those who ignore the teachings of history are doomed to repeat it.
So called humiliation? I don't think you'r aware of what has been said so far in this post...Those humiliation techniques were aproved by Rumsfield and Home Land Security as a means to soften up the suspects for interregation. Note that these people were only suspected of being terrorists also in more rescent news that someone from Bush's administration contested that even though those teschniques appliedmare against Geneva Conventions, it does not apply to suspected terrorists...Now aint that some sh*t

So called humiliation? I don't think you'r aware of what has been said so far in this post...Those humiliation techniques were aproved by Rumsfield and Home Land Security as a means to soften up the suspects for interregation. Note that these people were only suspected of being terrorists also in more rescent news that someone from Bush's administration contested that even though those teschniques appliedmare against Geneva Conventions, it does not apply to suspected terrorists...Now aint that some sh*t


So are you saying that the Americans should follow the Geneva Convention but the terrorists don't have to follow the same rules.

So are you saying that the Americans should follow the Geneva Convention but the terrorists don't have to follow the same rules.

LOL

That's why we define our fighting men and women as heroes, and theirs as terrorists. Although you fail to see that in many Islam fundamentalists' minds, we are simply evil, or are agents of evil, and therefore require no sympathy reserved for "humans" -- does that sound familiar? Yes, that's the same thing some people have basically called the other side -- agents of evil.

It's ALL stupid, and you are pefect for George Bush's campaign if you think that it isn't ALL for oil and power, NOT humanitarian purposes, as Bush and his administration would have you believe. Not that I care greatly about that. I want us to have the power and the oil, but damn, quit treating me like an 'idjit' child while you're doing it, please. But then again, I really don't like the price we're paying for all of this.

Have you ever heard of the Carlye Group? Do a search. Bush Jr. is in a special predicament where his decisions can line up his father's pockets...and it has.

I have a beachfront property across from my apartments, here in Arizona I can sell you cheap, by the way...

:eek7: Where to start... I guess at the top...

This incident serves to graphically illustrate the absolute evil that our troops are trying to eradicate.

Ok, for one, the only place "evil" exists is in the hearts and minds of those accusing others of being "evil". It's a concept used to vilify a human enemy to the point where they no longer seem human. I personally think the concept of evil is propagated by the intelligent to sway the opinion of the unintelligent and uninformed.


These people are no different than the Nazi SS that indiscriminately killed anyone that wasn't a member of the master race.


You prove you're very well versed in history. :rolleyes:

I certainly hope you are referring only to the Totenkopf and Einsatzgruppen, and not to the Waffen SS, the latter being one of, if not the most professional and effective armies in history.

There was never a point where any branch of the Schutzstaffel "ndiscriminately killed anyone that wasn't a member of the master race.". The "master race" notion is poorly translated propaganda, and nothing more. The intention of that propaganda is to distinguish between western Europeans, even dark skinned people such as Italians and the Spanish, from Semetic peoples such as Jews and Gypsies, and Eastern Europeans such as Poles and Russians.


They want to return the entire world to the 12 century and will kill anyone who disagrees or stands in their way.


Tell me, just how did you come to this conclusion? First of all, I don't believe that the insurgents have any designs for "the whole world", and in what sense do you claim they want to return it to the 12th century?


Anyone who attempts to appease or negotiate with them is percieved as weak and will become a target. Our entire nation and culture according to them need to be slaugthered like sheep.


Where do you get this stuff from? They're fighting because they have a goal, to get the US influence out of their countries. If there was no US influence, or at least military presence, in their countries, do you think they would actually care about America at all?


Hopefully the majority of Iraqis are not like this bunch, because, I fear the only thing that will convince them to let the world live in peace is a large caliber attitiude adjuster.


If the US keeps critically mismanaging teh situation in Iraq, it's quite likely the majority of Iraqis WILL be taking up arms.


Even the normal political process here before a presidential election, with the mud-slinging, etc., will encourage them because they will interpet it as a weakening of our country's resolve. No matter who ends up in the White House, our only choice is to keep going after them with every means at our disposal.
[QUOTE=Oldengineer]

That's been working tremendously well so far, it certainly hasn't made the situation worse, that's for sure. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Oldengineer]
If we don't, there will be thousands more murdered like Mr. Berg. WE must keep our focus on destroying the evil at hand, not on the stupidity of a few troops serving as prison guards.


What colour is the sky in your world? If Mr. Berg hadn't been so stupid as to blunder into a war zone, and put himself in a situation where he could be killed, he'd still be alive.

The issue with the "few troops serving as prison guards" is that it's a much more widespread problem than that. Using Mossad interrogation techniques on Iraqis, just as Israel has used them on Palesitians is not a good way to endear yourself to a nation of well armed unemployed people.


It is incredible that there is all this outrage in Europe over the so called humiliation of prisoners scandal, but, none in their press about the Berg incident. This is same bunch who thought they could negotiate their way out of a confrontation with Adolph Hitler in the 1930's. Apparently they've forgotten that those who ignore the teachings of history are doomed to repeat it.

I take it you comb through the entire European media sphere on a daily basis. You have got to be kidding, the Berg story has been all over the news around the world.

What I think is incredible, is how you attach more significance to the death of one American civilian who voluntarily stepped into a war zone, and got killed for it, than thousands of Iraqis who are being sujected to inhuman brutality by the very people who supposedly came to bring them freedom and liberty, and protect them from a brutal dictator. I'm suddenly reminded of the communists in Russia, circa 1917.

I don't think you have any business talking about history, especially bringing up Adolf Hitler, when you can't even SPELL the name of perhaps the most important man in the 20th century.

??????????????? Who do you hold in contempt for the blatant use of the Iraqi prisoners mistreatment for propaganda purposes? Democrats and the Canadain govt?

Propaganda purposes, the Canadian government? What have you been smoking/inhaling?

LOL

That's why we define our fighting men and women as heroes, and theirs as terrorists. Although you fail to see that in many Islam fundamentalists' minds, we are simply evil, or are agents of evil, and therefore require no sympathy reserved for "humans" -- does that sound familiar? Yes, that's the same thing some people have basically called the other side -- agents of evil.

It's ALL stupid, and you are pefect for George Bush's campaign if you think that it isn't ALL for oil and power, NOT humanitarian purposes, as Bush and his administration would have you believe. Not that I care greatly about that. I want us to have the power and the oil, but damn, quit treating me like an 'idjit' child while you're doing it, please. But then again, I really don't like the price we're paying for all of this.

Have you ever heard of the Carlye Group? Do a search. Bush Jr. is in a special predicament where his decisions can line up his father's pockets...and it has.

I have a beachfront property across from my apartments, here in Arizona I can sell you cheap, by the way...

It was just a question that I wanted answered, and you did a good job in answering it. Yes I am a republican but on occasion I can be a democrat. Less just say I would vote for the lesser of 2 evils right now, it has nothing to do with what party they belong to but amount of bullshit Kerry and Bush try to spread.

As for my views and opnions on the war in Iraq I will save them for when its over. Just for your info my brother served in Iraq in the begining. He is a crew chief on a C-130 squad, one of his squad planes were the one that flew Jessica Lynch out of Iraq.

CBASS

You don't see the humor in his statement just as you don't see the purposeful humor in mine.
By the way....type in words Canada and terrorist on Google and see what you get. I did it just for fun and was a little suprised.
Also I don't get high. I leave that to others who need the escape.

CBASS

You don't see the humor in his statement just as you don't see the purposeful humor in mine.
By the way....type in words Canada and terrorist on Google and see what you get. I did it just for fun and was a little suprised.
Also I don't get high. I leave that to others who need the escape.

I see plenty of humour in his statement, although I don't think that's what he intended. I see the humour in that he's rattling of 60 year old propaganda that has since been disproven, while simultaneously spouting off current propaganda which is already being disproven, and he doesn't see the irony in that.

As for the Google search, it's probably nothing I haven't heard of before. Here's a great little snippet from one article.

"Rights enshrined in Canada's Constitution, such as protection against unreasonable search and seizure, and the country's generous social-welfare system have made it "a favoured destination for terrorists and international organized crime groups," says the report, which is titled Nations Hospitable to Organized Crime and Terrorism.

Canada's "well-deserved reputation as a protector of human rights, including the rights of non-citizens who are entering or leaving the country," has helped promote "the presence of criminal and terrorist groups and individuals," the 234-page report says."

Guess we should get a PATRIOT act of our own, eh? Turns out it's those pesky freedoms and rights that make us vunerable to the terrorists :lol:

I think a great many people could benefit from the stress release of smoking some pot from time to time. I know most republicans I hear from certainly could :iceslolan

I see plenty of humour in his statement, although I don't think that's what he intended. I see the humour in that he's rattling of 60 year old propaganda that has since been disproven, while simultaneously spouting off current propaganda which is already being disproven, and he doesn't see the irony in that.
Curiosity makes me ask against my better judgment. What propaganda is it that is already being disproved? As for the Google search, it's probably nothing I haven't heard of before. Here's a great little snippet from one article. "Rights enshrined in Canada's Constitution, such as protection against unreasonable search and seizure, and the country's generous social-welfare system have made it "a favoured destination for terrorists and international organized crime groups," says the report, which is titled Nations Hospitable to Organized Crime and Terrorism. Canada's "well-deserved reputation as a protector of human rights, including the rights of non-citizens who are entering or leaving the country," has helped promote "the presence of criminal and terrorist groups and individuals," the 234-page report says." Guess we should get a PATRIOT act of our own, eh? Turns out it's those pesky freedoms and rights that make us vunerable to the terrorists
You seem to think I am anti freedom and pro PATRIOT act. Frankly I could care less about the patriot act. It's usually those who have something to hide who are worried about it. I am against the eradication of any freedoms. I am also against terrorist being able to hide behind the law. So what do I choose? Freedoms that are hopefully not permanatly removed or terrorist using the law that was meant to protect the innocent? Decisions, decisions.
I think a great many people could benefit from the stress release of smoking some pot from time to time. I know most republicans I hear from certainly could
To each his own. Some peoples minds I guess aren't a terrible thing to waste. So please by all means...Smok'em if you got'em.

This incident serves to ....[i]etc

Nothing particularly fresh here...same stale arguments that the pro-war,pro bush[if you'll pardon the tautology] hawks have been punting since the WTC attacks.

None of it is particularly relevant to Mr Berg's death,but the irony of the post is this...It is emerging that Mr Berg had the kind of opinions that the hard-line right wingers would abuse as 'un-American'.
However,since they have been told that the masked figures in this video are 1/Al-quaeda sympathisers,2/in Iraq,3/retaliating against prisoner abuse by US troops...the gung-ho types are happy to seize on Mr Berg as a poster boy for the war.

It has been said that Lynndie England is the new face of Al-Qaeda recruiting.I'd venture that Mr Berg is the rallying point for rednecks and hillbillies who don't give two shits for the facts as long as they can hate Iraqis.

So are you saying that the Americans should follow the Geneva Convention but the terrorists don't have to follow the same rules.
You misunderstood me entirely. What I said was that it is written in the guidelines of the US army that suspected terrorists do not get the same treatment as normal POW's since this is a new war. Therefore any suspected terrorists can be interrogated in any matter, killed, humiliated...pretty much anything against the Geneva Conventions to get any possible information out of them. :screwy: aint it?

Nothing particularly fresh here...same stale arguments that the pro-war,pro bush[if you'll pardon the tautology] hawks have been punting since the WTC attacks.

None of it is particularly relevant to Mr Berg's death,but the irony of the post is this...It is emerging that Mr Berg had the kind of opinions that the hard-line right wingers would abuse as 'un-American'.
However,since they have been told that the masked figures in this video are 1/Al-quaeda sympathisers,2/in Iraq,3/retaliating against prisoner abuse by US troops...the gung-ho types are happy to seize on Mr Berg as a poster boy for the war.

It has been said that Lynndie England is the new face of Al-Qaeda recruiting.I'd venture that Mr Berg is the rallying point for rednecks and hillbillies who don't give two shits for the facts as long as they can hate Iraqis.

I've been reading this the whole time and noticed that same, this has nothing to do with Nick Berg's death but somehow started by the topic of propaganda in which the original question asked about it has yet to be answered totally being ignored and going on to the norm as Mr. T pointed out.

The first page was nice till someone attacked Naki. I'm not here to talk of the war, that's for another thread, but Naki had it right when talking about Nick. We can call him what we wnt, naive, stupid, blinded, hopeful, w/e for going over there tryin' to help...'cause obviously it's that easy.....

I've yet to see the vid but thanks for removing the link. I don't believe his death though has anything to do with the Iraqi pics our soldiers took...this is just the way war is and people are making too much out of it. The people of America are tired of us being over there. If it was so easy to take them then why are we still there? The people are tired of it, it's like Vietnam is the general view that's coming up. Obviously not as big but hey, i'm tryin' to get us back on track.....

Curiosity makes me ask against my better judgment. What propaganda is it that is already being disproved?


I'll dig up the specifics when I get home, not enough time on my lunch break ;)


You seem to think I am anti freedom and pro PATRIOT act. Frankly I could care less about the patriot act. It's usually those who have something to hide who are worried about it. I am against the eradication of any freedoms. I am also against terrorist being able to hide behind the law. So what do I choose? Freedoms that are hopefully not permanatly removed or terrorist using the law that was meant to protect the innocent? Decisions, decisions.


I was just bantering hypothetically, I wasn't refferring to your beliefs. :)


To each his own. Some peoples minds I guess aren't a terrible thing to waste. So please by all means...Smok'em if you got'em.

If you're of the opinion that it constitutes a waste of a mind, that's your opinion. It isn't mine.

i have absolutely no desire to see this man come to an unjust and violent death as such. as to whom we should blame? Muhammad, who started the Muslim religion. Now, i'm not saying that all are violent, but the root of the Muslim religion is to spread the religion by violence, and it is an incredibly violent religion at its core. These men do not deserve to live. I'm with AceSnyper and the others. Gather your arms gentlemen!

i have absolutely no desire to see this man come to an unjust and violent death as such. as to whom we should blame? Muhammad, who started the Muslim religion. Now, i'm not saying that all are violent, but the root of the Muslim religion is to spread the religion by violence, and it is an incredibly violent religion at its core. These men do not deserve to live. I'm with AceSnyper and the others. Gather your arms gentlemen!

I'm getting very tired about hearing remarks like this about Islam from people who know nothing about it.

If you want to discuss Islam, and your views on it, go to the Philosophy forum. If you don't want to look like a complete ass, I suggest you do some reading first, preferrably from actual Islamic sources.

The following is a joke. It is meant for CBASS. All others ignore this post.
__________________________________________________ __________

Those darn finatic Islamic lobbyist in Washington are ruining things for all Islamics.:naughty:

__________________________________________________ ________

This has been a joke. Nothing more. Nothing less. If this joke offends you then I appoligize. It was not meant to offend.


darn liberals always making us conservatives go back and edit things so nobody is offended.
Oops.....did I say that out loud?
j/k

i have absolutely no desire to see this man come to an unjust and violent death as such. as to whom we should blame? Muhammad, who started the Muslim religion. Now, i'm not saying that all are violent, but the root of the Muslim religion is to spread the religion by violence, and it is an incredibly violent religion at its core. These men do not deserve to live. I'm with AceSnyper and the others. Gather your arms gentlemen!
You my good man, have no idea of what Islam is. Before making any other comment of that sort, please read up and infor yourself on the religion before making comments of things you are clearly unaware of.
Those darn finatic Islamic lobbyist in Washington are ruining things for all Islamics.
Another fine example of one who is misinformed, Muslims are the people that follow the religion of Islam. Islamics, is not even a word. Please refrain from making any more posts attacking a religion when you have absolutely no idea of how to even refer to it

If knowledge of a topic is a prerequisite to attacking it, then there are a whole lot of people who would need to quit posting in these threads :rolleyes:













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You my good man, have no idea of what Islam is. Before making any other comment of that sort, please read up and infor yourself on the religion before making comments of things you are clearly unaware of.

Another fine example of one who is misinformed, Muslims are the people that follow the religion of Islam. Islamics, is not even a word. Please refrain from making any more posts attacking a religion when you have absolutely no idea of how to even refer to it

That was a joke. Look back on another thread for a discussion CBASS and I had. I guess I have to write (j/k) when I make a funny from now on.

If knowledge of a topic is a prerequisite to attacking it, then there are a whole lot of people who would need to quit posting in these threads :rolleyes:
I really hope your being serious when your saying that you should have basic knowledge about what your commenting on. And if your pointing me out then say it, no need to beat aruond the bush. Well was FireaBball972 in this joke too?

Drop it already. It was meant for CBASS and I think (hope) he will see the humor in it. As for Fireaball972 I have never spoken to him before. I do understand where his anger comes from even if I don't agree with his sentiment towards the Muslim faith.

So just make you happy and to keep the peace I will go back and edit the post.

What religion or laws of a country say that its ok to kill an innocent person in this fashion or any other fashion?

This is what we as a country and even as a world are up against! Zealouts that believe it is okay to kill in the name of religion. It is plain psychotic. They believe if they kill us, they will go to heaven.

How do you counter that?

I would love to see a good response from some of the people on here who are so damn smart!

Drop it already. It was meant for CBASS and I think (hope) he will see the humor in it. As for Fireaball972 I have never spoken to him before. I do understand where his anger comes from even if I don't agree with his sentiment towards the Muslim faith.

So just make you happy and to keep the peace I will go back and edit the post.
Well than I take back what I said towards your comment and appologize, As for FireBball...my opinion stands

This is what we as a country and even as a world are up against! Zealouts that believe it is okay to kill in the name of religion. It is plain psychotic. They believe if they kill us, they will go to heaven.

How do you counter that?

I would love to see a good response from some of the people on here who are so damn smart!
Are you retarded??? Please inform yourself on the religion and get back to me when you can prove that there is a siting in the Qua'ran saying that if they kill Americans they will go to heaven and have 7 virgins....Those are extremists speaking

The following is a joke. It is meant for CBASS. All others ignore this post.
__________________________________________________ __________

Those darn finatic Islamic lobbyist in Washington are ruining things for all Islamics.:naughty:

__________________________________________________ ________

This has been a joke. Nothing more. Nothing less. If this joke offends you then I appoligize. It was not meant to offend.


darn liberals always making us conservatives go back and edit things so nobody is offended.
Oops.....did I say that out loud?
j/k

:lol:

How did I know that would get followed up by someone commenting on it?

Are you retarded??? Please inform yourself on the religion and get back to me when you can prove that there is a siting in the Qua'ran saying that if they kill Americans they will go to heaven and have 7 virgins....Those are extremists speaking
What the hell do you think I said? If I'm retarded and you can't even read my posts what does that make you? I said religious zealouts, psychopaths! Read my damn post before you comment.

If I'm retarded and you can't even read my posts what does that make you?
Very good point to make, hmmm, guess that makes me not retarded enough to be able to comprehend your argument :screwy:

Now now kids, lets not provoke one another.:rolleyes:

Really ya'll...before you get my thread closed, stop the flaming, let people say w/e then counter it with a productive argument. I've studied Islam since I was in elementary...

First of all, all terrorists are like that as Pick kind of pointed outish, so Raz, calm yourself. Yes, it looked that way he was still puttin' down the Muslims, in which as I read it originally I assumed the same but I see where he was goin'...

None the less, the Islam religion does not actually say anything about killing people and goin' to paradise etc.. It's written that if an offcial ji'had has been declared, dying in it will allow this. These would be pretty much any war declared on Israel. I'm just sayin', don't quote me...

The overall truth is that no one truly knows the religionof Islam. The Qu'ran was only known back in the day of the Muslim Empire by 10 priests if I remember right, very few to say the least, and it was passed down so if it was kept up, then only a few still know and if not, then obviously it was lost. Like all languages of old, they changed and no longer can truly be interpreted. Anyhow, there's a bit of actual truth.

Really ya'll...before you get my thread closed, stop the flaming, let people say w/e then counter it with a productive argument. I've studied Islam since I was in elementary...

First of all, all terrorists are like that as Pick kind of pointed outish, so Raz, calm yourself. Yes, it looked that way he was still puttin' down the Muslims, in which as I read it originally I assumed the same but I see where he was goin'...

None the less, the Islam religion does not actually say anything about killing people and goin' to paradise etc.. It's written that if an offcial ji'had has been declared, dying in it will allow this. These would be pretty much any war declared on Israel. I'm just sayin', don't quote me...

The overall truth is that no one truly knows the religionof Islam. The Qu'ran was only known back in the day of the Muslim Empire by 10 priests if I remember right, very few to say the least, and it was passed down so if it was kept up, then only a few still know and if not, then obviously it was lost. Like all languages of old, they changed and no longer can truly be interpreted. Anyhow, there's a bit of actual truth.
Actually you're correct, the Qua'ran has never been translated or interpreted in another man's way (I say man because only men can beomce Mullahs, there are no priestesses or anything of that sort...and no it's not a for of oppression). And lesser Jihad is used in a defensive manner
Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress limits. God does not love the transgressors (Qur'an 2:190)
Meaning that in the Qua'ran it says that war is not permissable unless it is in a defensive manner. Furthermore, a direct translation of Jihad means "inner struggle against evil" and is unequivocal to "holy war".

:lol:

How did I know that would get followed up by someone commenting on it?

Yeah, jokes must not go over to well in a political forum. I guess I'll have to try and hold back on those in here.:)

Islam is interepreted in many ways, as is the bible. Some people see it as saying they need to kill in the name of "Allah" to go to heaven. Others are extremely peaceful and worship in a becoming manner.

Islam is interepreted in many ways, as is the bible. Some people see it as saying they need to kill in the name of "Allah" to go to heaven. Others are extremely peaceful and worship in a becoming manner.
Yes, people do interpret it for their own way (ie. extremists to have a "reason" to kill). And yes they have been translated into other languages but there hasnt been a newer version of it, such as the new testament...The Qua'ran has always been exactly duplicated.

Yes, people do interpret it for their own way (ie. extremists to have a "reason" to kill). And yes they have been translated into other languages but there hasnt been a newer version of it, such as the new testament...The Qua'ran has always been exactly duplicated.

The New Testament isn't a newer version of the Bible. :lol:

This is very messed up and makes me suppurt the war even more.