To much bass every thing cuts out

HI all new to this forum was wondering if some one could help me.

I have a 03 Ranger Edge that i put a Pioneer deck 2 pioneer 4 way 6*8 speakers a 400 watt 10" pioneer sub and a Jensen 200 watt amp in. I have the 2 6*8s abd the sub running off the amp in full range 3 channel mode the book for the amp says it is capable of doing this. Now my problem is that when it playing a song if theres to much bass every thing will cut out wait a few seconds and then come back on. Ive talk a few people in stores some say i need a second amp for the sub others say i need some sort of cap but i dont know who to believe.

Any help would be greatly appreciated thanks

Sounds like either the voltage is dropping too low (power wire is too small), or the amp is overheating (too low of a load, or it's being pushed past its limits). Don't listen to people in stores, they're just trying to take your money so they can get commission. Caps are a waste, ESPECIALLY on your setup, and no one who knows anything would tell you to get a 2nd amp for your sub to fix your problem without even knowing what the problem IS first.

So what would you suggest.. I was thinking i need a biger amp and was looking at a Pioneer 400 watt 2-4 channel.

On a side note where do you think would be a good place to put a amp in a extended cab truck i have mine mounted to the back of the cab but not sure if i want to put a $200 amp out in the open like that

I would suggest you do some testing to find out what the real problem is

When the sound cuts out, is the amp's protection light on? Are any of the amp's lights on?

The amp it self stays on as for the the protection light i will have to look into this since i cant see it while driving

how do you know the amp stays on then without seeing the leds?

it has a jensen logo on the front of it which lights up and that stays on

ok before i left for work to day i did check to see if the protection light was coming on and it is.

Is the amp retardedly hot when this happens?

no it hot but its not burn your hand hot, when i did it this morning the amp was real cold and it still cut out

In that case it sounds like the power input voltage is dropping too low, what size is the power wire?

good question how would i go about finding this out..

When you say that you are running a 200 watt amp, how many watts per channel is it? If it is 25watts x 4, then you may be overdriving that amp trying to push that 10" sub. That in combination with what sr20de4evr is saying about the power wire being too small, that can cause havoc with your amp. If you have a volt meter, check the voltage when you are playing your stereo at a high volume. If it drops below 10.5 volts, this will cause your amp to become very hot very quick. Even if your amp doesn’t feel hot, the parts in side could be hot enough for the circuit protection to engage.

When you put your amp in, you must have used a wiring kit. the power wire he is talking about would be the wiring running from your battery.

here are sizes of differnt gage wires if you can't find the size anywhere:

Gage....diam(inch)....diam(mm)
0..........0.3249........8.25246
1..........0.2893........7.34822
2..........0.2576........6.54304
4..........0.2043........5.18922
8..........0.1285........3.2639
10.........0.1019........2.58826

Intresting... I will have to look at lunch time to see what sizethe wire is. The amp is a Jensen 200 watt 2 channel amp soo 100x2 the manual says it is capable of 3 channel mode which is what i am running it in 2 full range speakers plus the sub. And where should i check the votage at? the power going into the amp?

Yes, your amp can handle 3 channel mode, but only with 8 ohm speakers. My guess is that you have 4 ohm speakers. if so, then you are overloading your amp. My guess is that you are pulling a 2.67 ohm load. Your amp in bridge is probably only rated for 4 ohms. Unhook your 6x9s and see if your amp still cuts out.

yes voltage going into the amp.



on a side note......you should get another amp. Granted i've only seen it once, but having that small of an amp drive a 400W sub and 2 full range speakers....just my opinion, but id get a second, bigger amp for the sub.

These are the speakers im using
Pioneer 6x8 4way
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051826174162&skuId=5272466&type=product&productCategoryId=cat03078&cmp=++

this is the sub
Pioneer 10" Single-Voice-Coil 4-Ohm Subwoofer
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1067391222445&skuId=6195912&productCategoryId=cat03081&type=product

the amp i cant find any real info on, but if i un hook the sub the speakers still play fine but if i plug the sub back in it will all cut out

this is the amp i plan on buying
Pioneer 150W x 2 Bridgeable MOSFET Amplifier with Tri-Mode Power Distribution
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1067391222327&skuId=6195887&productCategoryId=cat03086&type=product
this loos like it would best suit my needs for the set up im using

IMO, keep your amp you have for the speakers, buy a mono amp for the sub

ok i went out at lunch just now and checked the wire im using is 8 gauge monster cable

I agree with CarSuperfreak!
This Poineer (GM-4000F) amp will power you system, but it will only give your sub 70 watts of power. Don't look at peak power ratings. Look for watt ratings with terms like RMS or Continuous. “Peak power” is a marketing ploy to make people believe that their amp is at a higher ratting than it really is. I have an MTX 500D amp (250x1 RMS) that runs at 500 watts RMS at 2 ohms and 250 watts at 4 ohms. If I were to go by the max ratings it would be 1000 watts plus. Now look at the amount of RMS (or continuous) watts at 4 ohms…250. Kind of a big difference between RMS at 4 ohms (250) and peak at 2 ohms (1000).

These are the speakers im using
Pioneer 6x8 4way
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051826174162&skuId=5272466&type=product&productCategoryId=cat03078&cmp=++

this is the sub
Pioneer 10" Single-Voice-Coil 4-Ohm Subwoofer
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1067391222445&skuId=6195912&productCategoryId=cat03081&type=product

the amp i cant find any real info on, but if i un hook the sub the speakers still play fine but if i plug the sub back in it will all cut out

this is the amp i plan on buying
Pioneer 150W x 2 Bridgeable MOSFET Amplifier with Tri-Mode Power Distribution
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1067391222327&skuId=6195887&productCategoryId=cat03086&type=product
this loos like it would best suit my needs for the set up im using


In that case it looks like you're dropping the impedence too low, and the amp is detecting it and going into protection to keep itself from frying. I would go with CarSuperfreak's suggestion, leave this amp on your mids and buy a mono for the sub.

8 gauge is good for your current setup. If you add a mono amp for your sub, I would highly recommend 4 or 2 gauge. www.partsexpress.com has good prices on cabling.
I am running 2 gauge power wire and 1 fared cap with a 110x2 and a 250x1.

I dont know too much about multi-amp wiring (im only using one) so im not sure what advice i can give you on gage's for wires for the two amps.

hmmm just checked a few sites.. all i can find for mono amps are like 800+ watt stuff that to expensive for what i need. im not looking for heavy hitting bass. I dont really have the cash right now to drop on a 200+ mono amp nor the room really inthe back of my truck for it which is why I would like to stick with one amp if possible

I understand what your saying about the RMS power and that pioneer amp would only give 70rms to my sub, right now its probably geting alot less with the amp i have. But with that pioneer amp or some thing with more power my system would stop cutting out right?

...probably; but like sr20de4evr said, it may because the impedence is dropping too low, sending the amp in to protection. as long as it is wired right, yes it should work.

I know on my amp (i checked the wiring diagrams) it says that i can wire 2 full ranges and a sub to it. Right speaker to right channel, left speaker to left channel, then wire the sub onto the bridged channel. (the the left + and right - on the amp would have two wires each)

... Right speaker to right channel, left speaker to left channel, then wire the sub onto the bridged channel. (the the left + and right - on the amp would have two wires each)


Thats how mine is wired currently

Thats how mine is wired currently


And if the sub is 8ohm then it would work, but as it is now, each channel is being presented with a 4ohm load and a 2ohm load wired in parallel. This drops the impedence to 1.33ohm, and since the amp is only 2ohm stable, it's going into protection. Atleast that's my guess.

I was just looking at my manual, and it says if you do it that way you will need inductors on the sub wires to act as low-pass filters, and capacitors on the speaker wires to act as high-pass filters for the high/midrange speakers.

so are you looking for a second amp? or a replacement amp?

on a side note, maybe sr20de4evr can answer this.....Right now I have a Pioneer Amp:
Continuous Power (14.4V): 125Wx2 (4 ohm), 190Wx2 (2 ohm), 380Wx1 (4 ohm)
Max Power (14.4V): 250Wx2 (4 ohm), 760Wx1 (4 ohm)

and Two Pioneer subs:
Watts MAX. Music Power 450W
Watts Nominal Power Handling 120W
Rated at 4 Ohms

I have both these subs hooked up to my amp bridged. (both positives on one post, and both negatives on one post) What impedance am I running at? at how much power is each sub getting?

I've had it set up this way forever, and have had no problems, Im just curious. Thanks

Carsuperfreak well i dont know id rather jsut replace the one im using now rather than go with 2 amps but if what sr20de4evr is saying is true it doesnt seem like i can do go with the pioneer amp i want.

you will need inductors on the sub wires to act as low-pass filters, and capacitors on the speaker wires to act as high-pass filters for the high/midrange speakers.

.... eh?

basically crossovers to keep the high notes out of the sub and the low notes out of the full range (let your sub handle the bass)

ahh i see i recall now my manual said some thing about that but i never could find this stuff.. so would that solve my problem?

:uhoh: ........sr20de4evr?

i think i have seen the cap at best buy but the inductors i have never seen.. If thats all i need that would be great since the caps are like 20 bucks

http://www.partsexpress.com/resources/xover.html
Here is a chart for 6 db and 12 db crossovers. For a sub, you want to stay around the 75-100Hz range.
If you separate what your sub plays (100Hz on down) and what your 6x9s play (100Hz on up), you will remain at 4 ohms. This is how 2 or 3 way home theater speakers work. If each speaker plays its own part of the music and doesn’t overlap what each speaker is playing, the amp will not have to play double duty. As it is, your speakers are both producing bass (which subsequently is where your amp works hardest).
It may be less hassle to get an inexpensive amp with a built in crossover for your sub.

ok ok so gregory if i separatethe freqs my problem of every thing cutting out should stop??

Carsuperfreak: your amp is running 2 ohms by 1 channel, 2 channel amps are not made to do that. You are putting a butt load of strain on the amp. your subs are getting about 200 each tops at a really bad clipped power.

Snake man, gregory:seperating the frequencies does not fix the ohm rating on the sub, it still has the same impendence. It is running too low for the amp. The frequency adjustments allows for more energy efficent use of power in the ranges given each speaker. If you want to run everything off one amp, either get a 4 channel amp, or a 5 channel amp, but for now I would recommend getting one of these for your sub http://www.thezeb.com/detail.aspx?ID=3500 Tell me you can at least afford 69.95 dollars shipped on a cheap amp. It will perform much better than a pioneer would. Also, you need to get a wiring kit for it. Honestly only pushing about 15amps or so, all you really need is like a 10 guage kit, 8 at the most, but no need to get a 4 guage. The sub can only handle 150 watts, if you can hear it I am amazed...

Also on another note, go ahead and get crossovers for the sub and the speakers, it will help it sound much better.

Haibane now that i can afford. is that amp for just the sub? or run it all off that?

But other than geting a 4 channel or 5 channel amp theres no way to do what im doing off a 2 or 3 channel amp like mine or an amp with more power?

as for the crossover stuff what do i need for that and where can i get it

I would have to go with the bigger amp. My 400 watt use to do the same thing, then i moved up to a 900 and everything works fine now.

crossover can be done by the same material you have... look at ur user manual for ur speakers.. should tell u there...

I think you are just pushing it too hard - you probably need a bigger amp, or turn the gains down some.

Btw, I would probably put the amp under a seat

oook so bassicly what i need to do to fix this problem is A. install a second mono amp to power the sub or B. just get a more powerfull amp to run in 3 channel mode. Is that right?

Also can some one provide me with a few link with amps other than best buy. Also i know i sound ate up with that pioneer amp i want but thats about my price range right now maybe $200 max but would i still be having the same problem as i am now with that amp or do i need more power or jsut the second amp

and by the way thanks every one for the help and info

Go with the more powerful amp... that's the best route...Crutchfield is where i go get my stuff, it has good prices

Crutchfield is where i go get my stuff, it has good prices


:22yikes: :banghead:

crutchfield, while having great customer service, is waaaay overpriced. Do just a little bit of shopping; you can do better.

www.pricegrabber.com
www.ikesound.com

No no, don't get a more powerful amp. Install the one I recommended as a seperate amp for the sub. Running a more powerful amp will only work if you get a 4 channel or up. Tri-mode is not really a good thing to run unless powered at the right impedence, which cannot be reached by those amps. Since you are obviously obsessed with improperly doing this by using one amp, at least get a 4 channel. Run 2 front channels to the speakers and 2 rear channels bridged to the sub. http://www.thezeb.com/detail.aspx?ID=3506


Of course you could just get a new sub, 2 amps, and some decent speakers, which I could get you good deals if you ever choose to do a decent setup.

so this amp is 4 channel??? http://www.thezeb.com/detail.aspx?ID=3506

for a 120 bucks how good of quality is that? sound good to me id rather go wit hthe 4 channel than 2 amps in the back only reason i want to do it with one amp is simply i dont have the room for 2 amps an a sub. the back of a ranger isnt all that big

I was just looking at my manual, and it says if you do it that way you will need inductors on the sub wires to act as low-pass filters, and capacitors on the speaker wires to act as high-pass filters for the high/midrange speakers.

so are you looking for a second amp? or a replacement amp?

on a side note, maybe sr20de4evr can answer this.....Right now I have a Pioneer Amp:
Continuous Power (14.4V): 125Wx2 (4 ohm), 190Wx2 (2 ohm), 380Wx1 (4 ohm)
Max Power (14.4V): 250Wx2 (4 ohm), 760Wx1 (4 ohm)

and Two Pioneer subs:
Watts MAX. Music Power 450W
Watts Nominal Power Handling 120W
Rated at 4 Ohms

I have both these subs hooked up to my amp bridged. (both positives on one post, and both negatives on one post) What impedance am I running at? at how much power is each sub getting?

I've had it set up this way forever, and have had no problems, Im just curious. Thanks


It sounds like you're running it at 2ohm bridged, but I'm having a hard time believing the amp is running that without a problem. I guess it's possible though

so what do you think should i go with that 4 channel amp?

Snake man, gregory:seperating the frequencies does not fix the ohm rating on the sub, it still has the same impendence. It is running too low for the amp. The frequency adjustments allows for more energy efficent use of power in the ranges given each speaker.


Not exactly

If you have an inductor on the sub (which I wouldn't recommend, when dealing with transient response inductance is the enemy) and a cap on the highs, at any given frequency the impedence will be much higher than the two speakers themselves wired in parallel. At 0hz (this is just a dc signal), the sub will be getting the full signal and because of the cap, the highs won't be receiving anything at all. This means the amp will only see the sub and the other speakers will be "invisible". At high frequencies, the inductor on the sub will have a very high impedence and essentially the amp will only see the other speakers. At all the frequencies in between it's a little more complicated, but depending on the capcitance and inductance used for the filters, it's possible to never show the amp an impedence lower than 4ohm mono even with 2 4ohm speakers wired in parallel.

so what do you think should i go with that 4 channel amp?

That 4ch would work, the Profiles aren't the best sounding amps out there, but they put out their rated power, they're reliable, and they do sound good for their price, so it should work out well.

souds good to me ill probably order it in a few days if you all say this will work

If you just run the fronts on the front 2 channels and bridge the rears to the sub, it should work out just fine

You would get 75 to each of the components and 225 to the sub

yup im buying soon i want this fixed lol

buddy at mine is trying to get me to buy a rockford fodgate amp i know that they are really good but also expensive but this one i found is only $200 Rockford Fosgate 501X 65x4 @ 4ohm - 500 watts RMS total would that work for my set up?

That would definitely do the trick. I have that type of setup in my wife's car with a Sony 50x4, and that pushes Kicker R25 tweeters and Infinity Beta 4’s for the front and a single Rockford XLC 12” for the sub.
I did a quick search on Google's Froogle and found this:
http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?icatid=303&stk_code=roc501x&svbname=403

you are kidding about the sony right? My friend just told me his good friend spent 3000 on a sony system and it all died within 2 years