SL to VR4?

I was wondering if i could swap my SL engine for a VR4 twin-turbo engine. Will it fit to the SL tranny? Will it fit in the car in general? What all do i nee dto do to get it to run properly and fast? Thanks.

I was wondering if i could swap my SL engine for a VR4 twin-turbo engine. Will it fit to the SL tranny? Will it fit in the car in general? What all do i nee dto do to get it to run properly and fast? Thanks.

Honestly I have to say f*ck it, it's totally expensive I mean way out there. When I had my base 3000GT I thought about doing that, but it's way to expensive, the engine alone is like $10,000 and then there is the tranny and alot of other stuff, just not going to happend. Then I looked into getting a custom turbo for my base model, again it's expensive and really not worth it. So in the end I traded in my base for a VR4, and it was 100% the right choice, and I would recommend it for you if just have to have a lot more power like I did.

the engine is definitely not $10,000 is it

Engine would prolly be around 2-3k range, 10,000? no.

so does the VR4 motor fit on the SL tranny? and would everything go on right and fit right if i got the vr4 motor and dropped it? thanks

Ok so find me a price for the VR4 engine? That was the price I was looking at when I thought about making the switch, $8,000-$10,000, it's not cheap believe me (but this was like 5 years ago, so the price might be chaeper now). Still I must ask you, are you saying $2,000 to $3,000 because you know or because that's just what you think? If you know please share and where you got the info, prices may change in 5 years and I'd be interested to see by how much. I know of nobody and/or haven't heard anybody do the VR4 engine swap into SL, I'm sure if the price was only $2,000-$3,000 there would be somebody. I have heard of turbo SLs, but no VR4 swaps. Here is you answer, anything is possible if you have the money and are willing to spend the money, you could make a GEO Metro run 9 seconds if you were willing to spend the money, the point is are you willing to spend that kind of money? Most people say no, I say no is a good answer. Just buy a VR4.

so does the VR4 motor fit on the SL tranny? and would everything go on right and fit right if i got the vr4 motor and dropped it? thanks
Perhaps this will help this guy had a great answer.

johnnyBgood
Look at the engine bay of the 3G. Much smaller engine bay. Take a look at the TT engine for the 6G72 in the 3K GT VR4. Now compare that with your 6G72 in the 3G. The intake manifolds are faced opposite and there is no way the twin SMIC's are going to fit.It would be much cheaper to just twin turbo what you have now.

I checked out prices and the VR4 engines for you, the engines seem to be selling from $3,000 to $5,000. But they are usually bought by other VR4 owners, there is just alot of differences, and I mean ALOT of difference between the SL and VR4, a swap is just not plausible.

Can you put a TT engine in? Yes.
Will it bolt to the FWD trans? Yes.
Is it cheap? No
Is it $10,000 probably not, but over $5000 at least.

Its probably cheaper to just buy the cast off parts from a TT owner that upgraded their turbos and TT your NA engine.

Click here for a basic run down on TT'ing an NA engine : http://www.3si.org/forum/faq.php?faq=tech_faq#faq_fwd_tt_conversion

I could find you an entire vr4 for 10 grand. I have seen the engine sold for 3k on various sites online. The entire swap does require a bit of fabrication and a few more parts than just the engine from a vr4, so you will probably need a donor car. This is not said to discourage you, many people have done TT conversions( it is definantly plausible, 3000ways, johnnybgood was refering to a 3rd gen eclipse, not an SL). But in all honesty, if you aren't capable of doing the work yourself, I would suggest just getting a vr4, to save yourself the trouble and money. If you TT an N/A you will still have FWD and therefore after you get all that power, traction will now become your enemy. So I would suggest going with the vr4, but like I said, if you have the abilities, go for it, it has been done numerous times.

your all wrong a used twin turbo 3000gt 6g72 is about 3-4 grand plus your awd and tranny accesories that need to be changed

your all wrong

Thats a rather bold statment.

I know several people that have purchased complete TT engines for abvout $2500. So if your paying 3k-4k your paying too much.


TT'ing a FWD does not require ANY AWD transmission parts so whats the point of mentioning that?

Engine would prolly be around 2-3k range, 10,000? no.

That is right mecause you can buy a brand new remanufactured engine for under 3k from orientengine.com

sigh...listen to igovert...with the money you would spend on a conversion, you could sell your sl and buy a vr4...then you'll have awd, aws, active spoiler, and money leftover for a timer or w/e ur heart desires...you dont want fwd w/ twin turbos, unless you get a good lsd, and theres a couple more grand you'd have to spend. But if you wanna waste money and learn the hard way..go for it!!

Wow, waste of money to TT a FWD??? Go to 3si. Go to the FWD forum and there is a FOrced induction sub forum. There are PLENTY of people running TT's in the FWD DAILY DRIVER.

Listen to alan92rttt. He knows his stuff.;) A FWD TT with the same mods as a VR4 will destroy it in a roll race. If the FWD adds slicks and a LSD then its ALL FWD. And a LSD is only $1000. That is with a lifetime warantee too.

Wow, waste of money to TT a FWD??? Go to 3si. Go to the FWD forum and there is a FOrced induction sub forum. There are PLENTY of people running TT's in the FWD DAILY DRIVER.

Listen to alan92rttt. He knows his stuff.;) A FWD TT with the same mods as a VR4 will destroy it in a roll race. If the FWD adds slicks and a LSD then its ALL FWD. And a LSD is only $1000. That is with a lifetime warantee too.


wow, this thread is old

there are advantages and disadvantages to everything, if you have any questions let me know

but the one im talkin bout comes with tranny awd kit and everything else

also if u tt a fwd u gonna go thru tires like crazy and its gonna be very hard to drive in the rain his car had alot of power already n hes gotten into bout 2-3 accidents

also if u tt a fwd u gonna go thru tires like crazy and its gonna be very hard to drive in the rain his car had alot of power already n hes gotten into bout 2-3 accidents


dont launch the car and you dont have to worry about tires, its not that hard to daily drive a FWD car without spinning out

in fact, on mine, i dont have that bad traction problems, i wont spin out unless i do a brake boost launch with enough boost built up.

he has manual shifter

Yup plenty of people daily drive there twin turbos. And vinny there is no "AWD kit" Bob the Great over on 3si is one of the only KNOWN AWD conversions. IT takes A LOT of fabbing and skills to make a FWD car into a AWD. Also whoever your talking about thats been in 2-3 accidents needs to learn how to drive.;)

Well it is a waste of money b/c w/ the cost of doing it you could buy one thats done already w/ more features. And w/ the $1000 you would spend on a lsd, think what you could buy for your tt awd. didnt hotshot do a tt swap, how much did he spend? just curious.

Well it is a waste of money b/c w/ the cost of doing it you could buy one thats done already w/ more features. And w/ the $1000 you would spend on a lsd, think what you could buy for your tt awd. didnt hotshot do a tt swap, how much did he spend? just curious.


$2,000 including all the gauges, fuel management, and a custom exhaust. Autos dont need an LSD for a tt conversion because the stress levels on autos are a lot less on the launches. I finally put an LSD insert because of more upgrades, and the insert cost me $200, $150 for the high-stall torque converter, and $70 for the shift kit, did all the labor myself which saved TONS of money. But back to the original question, i wasn't even originally planning to do this. I bought this car 4 years ago, and then 2 years ago the tt conversion was finally discovered, and i found out about all the auto breaking times that the DSM crowd has, in fact they have autos that are in the 9 seconds now. I decided to give it a shot after kunal finally made the first successful automatic twin turbo, and i just wanted to experiment with the auto tranny. Since a year and a half ago after i got it done, only bad thing that has happened to the car was the end clutch went out when i was just driving it normally, but other than that, its treated me well.

Think about it this way. Get an insurance quote on an AWD TT. No get an insurance quote on a SL. There is going be a decent difference. You are already saving money right there. As already said a FWD TT has MAJOR potential to be faster than a AWD TT. IPO is on the verge of breaking the 3/s record in his FWD single turbo set up running lower boost and not having the advantage of a AWD launch. He has less than 10k into the entire car including purchase price. I want to see some one do that with a AWD TT.;)

jdmenginedepot.com awd kit means its the awd assecories also he doesnt need to learn how to drive all his accidents were honest the latest was on a turn his inside front tire blew out and he hit to rails not hard to do the other was a little rim prob when he was losing traction on a turn

jdmenginedepot.com awd kit means its the awd assecories also he doesnt need to learn how to drive all his accidents were honest the latest was on a turn his inside front tire blew out and he hit to rails not hard to do the other was a little rim prob when he was losing traction on a turn
If thats the case then AWD wouldnt have saved him. I have read plenty of threads of AWD cars loosing control because of over steering or even tire blowouts. And there are no AWD kits, period. In order to add AWD to a non AWD you have to add the entire rear sub section. Read up on it on 3si. And any time you get anything JDM they can ONLY send the front half of the car. The car is cut in half so you are not getting everything you would need for a AWD conversion.

$2,000 including all the gauges, fuel management, and a custom exhaust. Autos dont need an LSD for a tt conversion because the stress levels on autos are a lot less on the launches. I finally put an LSD insert because of more upgrades

Sorry I was thinking about manual you would need LSD, didn't even think about auto. But that's awesome that you did all that. Don't you get wheelhop with that LSD insert, or is it not the one that makes it permenant posi? Sure it has it's advantages (insurance cost, top speed), but the point i'm trying to get across is that for all the work and money involved in the conversion you're probably better off buying a VR4 and modding that. It depends though, if you can do all that for $2000 like hotshot, don't mind taking the time, and if you got your 3S cheap then it would be well worth it.

A LSD reduces wheel hop, not increases it.

If thats the case then AWD wouldnt have saved him. I have read plenty of threads of AWD cars loosing control because of over steering or even tire blowouts. And there are no AWD kits, period. In order to add AWD to a non AWD you have to add the entire rear sub section. Read up on it on 3si. And any time you get anything JDM they can ONLY send the front half of the car. The car is cut in half so you are not getting everything you would need for a AWD conversion.

Most of the time when you get a front clip of a VR4 you get the whole drivetrain with it. That includes the rear sub assembly with AWS, the brakes, rear end, ect.

No I am sorry but that is wrong. It is ILLEGAL to sell anything more than the front clip. The only other thing that may come with it is the transfer case and possibly driveshaft.

Think about it this way. Get an insurance quote on an AWD TT. No get an insurance quote on a SL. There is going be a decent difference. You are already saving money right there. As already said a FWD TT has MAJOR potential to be faster than a AWD TT. IPO is on the verge of breaking the 3/s record in his FWD single turbo set up running lower boost and not having the advantage of a AWD launch. He has less than 10k into the entire car including purchase price. I want to see some one do that with a AWD TT.;)


true, but most people wont completely gut their car including the gas tank and put in a 2 gallon fuel cell to have their car down to 2300 lbs, plus IPO is a good driver.

As far as actually doing a conversion or swap, it depends on if all the costs and time doing it is worth it to you. IN MOST CASES, the final cost does come out to the cost of selling your car and buying a vr-4, but there are some cases where it doesn't. It all depends on what you want.

No I am sorry but that is wrong. It is ILLEGAL to sell anything more than the front clip. The only other thing that may come with it is the transfer case and possibly driveshaft.

:sly: Illegal to sell more then a front clip? Color me confused. Are you saying that its illegal to sell a part for our car? I know its illegal to swap out an engine that doesn't pass emmissions standards, but I can't find anything on google about illegalities on selling more then the front clip.

Can you point me towards your source of this information?

I mean when it comes from Japan. Sorry for the confusion. When it comes to doing an AWD conversion you need a donor car plain and simple. If you go order from a JDM company they cannot sell you the whole car. It is legal issues and what not. They cn only sell you up to the firewall, some include the dash and wiring. I was basically pointing out that there is no awd "conversion" and JDM wont garner you anything more than the front clip.

I hope I cleared it up. I also hope I didnt confuse you more.

A LSD reduces wheel hop, not increases it.

LSD reduces wheel Spin not wheel hop...it makes wheel hop around turns if it is a permanent posi type, or locked diff.

Wheel hop is when the inner wheel, which has to turn slower than the outer wheel in a turn, is forced to keep up w/ the outer wheel's speed. With a locked diff, or fulltime posi diff (aka the lsd insert) this would happen. A real LSD has a provision for this, the insert just locks the driveshafts together creating the wheel hop problem, which is why I asked.

I mean when it comes from Japan. Sorry for the confusion. When it comes to doing an AWD conversion you need a donor car plain and simple. If you go order from a JDM company they cannot sell you the whole car. It is legal issues and what not. They cn only sell you up to the firewall, some include the dash and wiring. I was basically pointing out that there is no awd "conversion" and JDM wont garner you anything more than the front clip.

I hope I cleared it up. I also hope I didnt confuse you more.


No, they cant sell you a driveable car, they can sell just about all the parts off it except for a full chassis.
One example with only about 2 min of searching http://www.flashoptions.com/product.asp?prodID=95

The insert does not just lock them together. This was disussed when speedfreaksteve started talking about them before he sold them.. It has the ability to lock and unlock. Its not just locked full time.

And I understand you can be sold everything minus the full chassis. Thats basically what I was trying to get across. It just wasnt coming out right. It is still MUCH easier to have a donor car so you know you have all the parts and you know how everything goes.

Also a LSD does not necesarily reduce wheel spin. It just causes both tires to spin together reducing wheel hop and torque steer. And wheel hop it what happens on launches. If the tire(s) do not break traction correctly or try to grab while still spinning then wheel hop is what occurs. It can also oocur if you have bad motor mounts. I had wheel hop so bad that my winshield wipers turned on and my face on cd player opened. I eventually broke the rear motor mount and got wheel ho pany time I jumped on the throttle. A spool(perm. locked diff) causes skipping basically. That is not what wheel hop is.

EDIT: edited for clarity and to add info

Wheel hop = the wheel hops....pretty basic....obviously you were taught a different meaning than I was, but as you'll learn in the automotive world that is quite common. So no need to say what I said is wrong, we just have different definitions, but they are basically the same. And when I said the insert would cause wheel hop by locking the diff, I was assuming that it would lock the diff, that's why I asked if it did. I didn't catch the whole thread that you mentioned...but I have seen a few people say that the insert sucked and did cause wheel hop.

I am just saying ask ANYONE in the racing world what wheel hop is and they will tell you exactly what I did. A fully locked spool will cause the condition you described. It can be especially dangerous in a RWD car and cause you to spin out from the inability of the wheels to turn at different speeds.

Thanks for the information. Now I'm at least in the same book if not the same page :smile:

Ok i'll take it from you then, it's wheel skid when you turn w/ a locked differential....so what is wheel slip then? Because I was under the impression that when you floor it and your tires spin, that was wheel slip, because they are slipping, not hopping. Lay down the definitions for me please:
Wheel hop -
Wheel slip -
Wheel skid -

Wheel hop happens on launches. It is basically the tires inability to slip. Basically the tire gains traction and loses traction causing the front of the car to bounce. This can be amplified by worn suspension or motor mounts. Do a search on google for "wheel hop" using the "" and it will show you the same answer.

havnt been on in awhile been really busy.. but i saw this thread and dont understand how people are coming up with 2000-3000 dollars for an engine.. my engine wen on my sl and was looking to drop a vr-4 engine in but was way out of my price range.. does any1 have sites for the engines?? thanx chris

Well then what do you think happens around a turn with a locked diff? because the wheel is forced to keep up it slips, and when it grips it hops!! it's the same thing!

NO IT IS NOT! Look it up. Even if a locked diff skips around a corner it is NOT considered wheel hop. And there are no totally locking diffs for the 3/s so that issue doesnt have to be dealt with at all on these cars.

Wait I will link you to info I found. Do a search on 3si for "wheel hop" I found 486 threads containing that phrase and it all has to do with launching. On a RWD leaf sprung vehicle wheel hop is also common.
http://features.evolutionm.net/article/rrmcorner/14
http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=243517&highlight=wheel+hop http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=242798&highlight=wheel+hop
http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=240398&highlight=wheel+hop
http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=236990&highlight=wheel+hop
http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=236990&highlight=wheel+hop
http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=323&highlight=wheel+hop

Ok i'll use your own link to prove what i'm saying:

The suspension and engine are connected to the rest of the car with flexible, rubber bushings and mounts. This flex kills vibrations, but it also produces a secondary, unwanted, oscillatory mechanical system. Normally, this system isn't acted on in such a way that it oscillates. When launching, with front wheel drive cars, the weight transfers to the rear of the car, reducing traction in the front. As the front tires break traction, the forces on the suspension and engine also change, setting them into motion. When the tires grab again, the forces change back the other way, now applied to a system already in motion. Now we have an oscillating force applied to an oscillating system, much like a hitting a paddleball. If you apply force to the paddle to match the natural frequency of the ball attached to the elastic string, you can keep that system going all day. With wheel hop, the motion of the system feeds back to the wheels, causing the oscillating force to sync up with it. This will also go on all day (until you reduce throttle or the transmission falls apart). The solution is to reduce the flex in the rubber band-like motor mounts and suspension bushings.

When you turn with a locked diff., the weight of the car is transfered to one side (instead of front to back) so the other side loses traction. The loss of traction coupled with the tire being force to spin faster than it wants and gripping randomly (just like on a launch) causes the wheel to hop. It doesn't skid, slip, spin, it "hops". If it happens front to rear, it happens side to side too. We all use different terms for different things, whether you say skid hop jump bounce or whatever, the wheel is doing the same thing. All I have ever heard is that locked differential (such as on a 4WD system) causes wheel hop when turning (this is from training videos and books, not random people). All you have heard is skid obviously, either way, we both know what we're talking about so what's it matter. All I wanted to know is if his insert cause wheel hop/skid around turns from him, the guy who actually drives the car with the insert, not you.