Rally Cyprus 2004

Already on Stage 4 and no thread yet?

Current standings after S3:

1. Solberg/Mills
2. Gronholm/Rautianen
3. Rovanpera/Peitilainen
4. Sainz/Marti
5. Martin/Park
6. Loeb/Elena
7. Hirvonen/Lehtinen
8. Tuohino/Aho
9. Panizzi/Panizzi
10. Solberg/Menkeurd

Came here to start one and found you already have Ray!

Did anybody hear about the commotion on the recce?

Solberg and the two Peugeots were streets ahead of every body for much of the day, until Solberg's engine started to overheat, and Gronholm started having clutch problems. Solberg is now minutes behind and I guess will try and continue to pick up a manufacturer's point or two. Gronholm only lost a bit of time an leads, but Martin and the Citroens have taken big chunks out of the lead and are now not far behind. The course is extremely rough and the winner is likely to be that last man left running. So the Citroens could be the ones to look out for.

1. 5 Gronholm-Rautia Peugeot 307 A8 1h57'24"600 62.2 km/h 1 1
2. 6 Rovanpera-Pieti Peugeot 307 A8 1h57'35"300 + 00'10"70 2 2
3. 3 Loeb-Elena Citroen Xsa A8 1h57'44"700 + 00'20"10 3 3
4. 7 Martin-Park Ford Focus A8 1h57'45"600 + 00'21"00 4 4
5. 4 Sainz-Marti Citroen Xsa A8 1h57'51"300 + 00'26"70 5 5
6. 2 Hirvonen-Lehtin Subaru Impr A8 2h00'03"700 + 02'39"10 6 6
7. 11 Tuohino-Aho Ford Focus A8 2h01'44"400 + 04'19"80 7 7
8. 9 Panizzi-Panizzi Mitsubishi A8 2h01'46"900 + 04'22"30 8 8
9. 12 Solberg-Menkeru Peugeot 206 A8 2h03'04"200 + 05'39"60 9 9
10. 17 Warmbold-Price Ford Focus A8 2h05'26"200 + 08'01"60 10 10
11. 1 Solberg-Mills Subaru Impr A8 2h06'56"900 + 09'32"30 11 11

From what I understand, punctures are a huge problem for everyone. Not cool.

Yeah everybodh is having dramas. So far today (Saturday) Gronholm had a tyre roll right off the rim, Loeb lost first gear for a stage, Martin bent the steering, Rovanperra has lost most of his gears and Sainz is stuck with the wrong tyres.

First loop of stages for Leg 2 has run, Gronholm still leads but the followers are catching him. Except for Rovanpera who will be having a new gearbox fitted at service.

Last stage is underway. Barring mishaps it will be the first win for the 307 and Gronholm's first in about a year. Marcus has extended his lead this morning and everybody is just cruising home to the finish. The gaps between competitors is too large and the surface too rough to risk pushing it.

Only position change today was Hirvonen slowing to allow Solberg through for an extra point. Quite a contrast from Rally NZ that was a thrill a minute right up to the last km of the last stage.

And Marcus keeps it tidy to take the win as well as the lead of the Driver's Championship :)

Petter got back into the points which is great for his season, he's really matured in a good way as a driver.

I can't see Subaru missing Burnsie much this year with the way Petter is driving.

I don't like Marcus Gronholm. I think he is the most ungrateful, sniveling whiny driver in all of motorsports. His M.O. is to blame the car for everything, even though he screwed himself out of a win by making a stupid mistake in the Rally New Zealand. I have yet to hear him say anything positive about the new 307, even though right now it looks like the fastest car out there right now, save Solberg's WRX. He just isn't deserving of a championship because he thinks he is God's gift to rallying, and that the team should revolve around him. Champions should be more grateful and humble, like Petter Solberg. Okay, done venting.

I think you will find that you are part of a very small minority in that regard Street Racer. Marcus is a Fin and as humble as they come. All drivers blame the car when it is worthy of blame. Look at Markko Martin last year or Richard Burns every time he drove a Peugeot.

The only person I read that Gronholm blamed for his roll in New Zealand was himself. Unlike a certain wee Scott who apparently only used to need a co-driver as an in-car scapegoat. His roll was actually a good thing because it set up a very thrilling finish where Marcus did all he could to catch Petter. Without his mistake he'd have cruised to a win almost as boring as Cyprus ultimately was.

Bosse is a great champion, he paid his dues for a very long time before his big opportunity came along. I hope he can win many more rallies and championships with Peugeot!

Thought the Cyprus Rally was over? - think again.
Both the Peugeots and Citroens are under unvestigation over the possible use of a non-standard water pump! Citroen and Peugeot use pretty much the same engine and have done for some time, a bit wierd to get into trouble for this now. We'll have to wait until at least Wednesday to see if any exclusions occur. The Focus was disqualified from its first rally for a modified water pump in 1999.

Makes things a little more interesting....the disqualification of those cars would make the results read:
1. Martin/ Park
2. Solberg/ Mills
3. Hirvonen/ Lehtin
4. Tuohino/ Aho

That would really make a mess of things.....or would it?

That would be a good consolation prize for Petter, considering he had the fastest car once again.

Peugeot excluded!

For having plastic rather than the homolgated brass impellors on their water pumps. How could they be so stupid?

Peugeot excluded!

For having plastic rather than the homolgated brass impellors on their water pumps. How could they be so stupid?

That's so lame, because of an impellor? :screwy:

You can understand it though if it is indeed what the street version of the 307 has since that is what they're meant to use in the rally car.

Either way, it seems overkill to exclude them on something so small.

Sorry, when I wrote "how could they be so stupid" I was refering to Peugeot. The water pump has to be standard and their's was not, wether it was intentional or a mistake I guess we'll never know. What difference could a plastic impellor have made performance wise anyway? Not much I'd have thought, especially considering the heavy price to pay in the form of this disqualification.

Wonder why it took the FIA/Stewards so long to announce the findings?

Just checked out World Rally News and there is a quote from a Peugeot Sport spokesman who said:

“We presented documents to the stewards that proved that the pumps were built with standard parts and that the performance was absolutely the same as from the other water pump. They didn’t accept this,”

So it sounds like Peugeot believe they are standard :screwy:

I know who you meant when you said they were so stupid Phil, but I still think it's actually pathetic to exclude a team on something so trivial.

From my experience in working in the motor industry, it's not unusual for a manufacturer to initially start production with a brass impellor in a pump whilst the plastic impellors are developed.
Ford actually did this with the impellor in the fuel pump for the Focus, so why wouldn't Peugoet have possibly done the same?
Peugeot may have initially been using a pump with a brass impellor and may have now moved to a plastic impellor, it's possible they didn't even think about the impellor material when they pulled the pump off the shelf, why should they when it's a standard production pump?

On the other hand, if the homologation record shows that the water pump has a brass impellor and they didn't register a change with the FIA, they can only blame themselves.

I think you are probably right Ray. The explanation was much the same for Tommi Makinen's exclusion from the 2000 Rally Australia. The components used in the construction of the road car had changed and nobody thought to consider how that would affect the homolgated rally car.

Read on World Rally News that Corrado Provera has finally lashed out in a scathing attack on the FIA concerning the Cyprus exclusion.

“Were we conformable in Cyprus? My answer is yes. Did we make the proof it? The answer is yes. Was something missing to prove it was conformable? Yes. We could not prove that it [the water pump] was mounted on the XU7JP4 engine. The history is quite complicated. We gave official documents proving that this pump was mounted as a spare part, but we couldn’t prove it had been mounted [as standard] on the same engine.

“Why do we consider that the punishment was completely excessive? I don’t want to consider that it was not a question performance-wise, because everybody knows it. By throwing us out, shame has been thrown on Peugeot. This is unacceptable. Outside our microcosm, people may believe we did something against the law.

“Why we decided not to go to appeal court? This decision was taken after discussion with [Peugeot chief executive] Frederic Saint-Geours and Jean-Martin Folz, the President of PSA. We decided it was useless to go to appeal, because even though we were sure of winning, we could have taken back our Cyprus points, but who knows what would happen to us? Another reason is that in our sport - and this is not at all what happens in Formula 1 - sanctions are given according to the interpretations of different people,” Provera said.

He listed a string of incidents, from Marcus Gronholm’s exclusion for speaking to an engineer within one kilometre during the 2002 Rally of Argentina, to Sebastien Loeb’s penalty for using illegal tyres on the 2002 Monte Carlo Rally, to Carlos Sainz going off-route during the 2003 Tour of Corsica and Petter Solberg being pushed in the 2004 Rally Mexico when he asserted that the punishment was incorrect. In every case aside from Gronholm’s, he suggested that it was too lenient and that the other drivers should also have been excluded.

He disclosed that chief engineer Michel Nandan had offered his resignation following the stewards’ verdict and that it had been refused. He added that Peugeot staff had, by agreement with Saint-Geours, been paid their usual winning bonus for the Cyprus result.

“Are we depressed? Are we sad? Are we empty? No, we are disgusted. Will we give up? No, never,” Provera concluded.


Too bloody right! But then I am a Peugeot fan. On the bright side it means Marcus will have a slightly easier time of things not leading on day one of the Acropolis.

Can you blame Corrado for being upset though?
I certainly don't.