Mazda rx8 and a kawasaki z1000

Hey im mostly a 3d modeller but i thought id take a crack at 2d ..the images are of poor quality coz of the file size limit anyways im just a guy hopin some design school will lemme in..please be brutal when criticizing my work...these were done freehand are actually the size of a3 sheets...if u have any questions ill be happy to answer them here are the links

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/174008rx8.jpg

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/174008rx8.jpg


http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/174008kwackerz1000.jpg

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/174008kwackerz1000.jpg

oh by the way it took 2 hours for the car and 21/2 for the bike..man thats a lotta time

Those Are Damn Good! But Your Rims On The RX-8 Could Use Some Work, Other Than That, They Are Great, Good Job!

they're cool.

i dont think you should have an outline tho, ...the rim on the rx-8 should also be a bit higher i think... yah

very nice man, i like em, not into bikes tho

those are pretty good. the wheels on the rx-8 are off, and the headlight's a little off too... the bike looks awesome, that's a nice angle. and one thing for both of 'em is if you could darken it up a bit... 'cause it's kinda light and hard to see

RX-8: your wheels r off as other ppl said but i like the detail in your headlights, also im not that much into bikes. good drawings!

bike is better. as they've said, your elipses are way way off on the car. get a book on engineering drawing. read up on 1,2,3 point perspective.

thats awesome, i love bikes...yeah just do wot is suggested with the wheels on the RX8

Pretty good drawings. You could still work on your shading though, have a large spectrum of luminosity. Other than that, great job.

i like the bike a lot. maybe its the view or the detail in the engine but i like it a lot

Hey thanx for the comments guys hoped it wud be more brutal...spot on about the wheels but the shading and detail is actually better (stupid camera)
anywayz no excuses..it sucks.. time to get better ...oh oh cud someone plz tell me how to get it not to look so smudgy and scratchy

Hey thanx for the comments guys hoped it wud be more brutal...spot on about the wheels but the shading and detail is actually better (stupid camera)
anywayz no excuses..it sucks.. time to get better ...oh oh cud someone plz tell me how to get it not to look so smudgy and scratchy

you aked for it, bucko. your shading sucks. you need to look at reflections from life. study actual cars. it is clear that you do not do this. if you did, then your reflections would be more convincing. you are flying blind into a cloud.

secondly, you, as of yet, cannot handle materials seriously. you are very green. you need to stop trying so hard at sex, so to speak. you belabor the smudging until it is clumsy and heavy-handed. relax. you are not relaxing with your drawings. i can tell. the drawings are the ultimate truth-tellers. i can tell what is going on with you, tiger. you are so tensed-up and in bondage.

third, why have you gone to the expense of shading only to ignore the environment? why are these vehicles floating in space? where is the light source? this is THE biggest problem, sport. YOU HAVE NOT ESTABLISHED ANY IMMEDIATELY RECOGNIZABLE LIGHT SOURCE. this is why the drawings are weak and 'tentative.' since you are blind, you cannot see where you are going. you cannot tell, and neither can we, what theme is at work. you have copied from photographs not understanding what is happening in those enviroments.

you cannot understand photographs because you do not understand what happens in real life. i can see that, too. you cannot hide. if you understood real life, you would imbue the flat photograph with elements of the living, breathing world of 3-d. and you have not. so you are flying blind into a cloud, copying photographs with some talent for "eyeballing," but very little skill. you do not understand perspective.

to be able to copy, even mediocre-wise, which you have done, a photograph is not impressive. tracing or "eyeballing" photographs is not impressive if you cannot already draw. do yourself a big favor and go out and draw reality for a change. you cannot shortcut to "slick" looking photo-realism with mild drawing talent and little skill. this is what you have attempted to do.

you DO have talent to draw. in fact, if you practiced more, you could be really great. but that is just idle talk: you have very very underdeveloped skill. and you cannot pretend to have skill because your drawings reveal everything that you are about. you have not drawn enough. you have not observed reality enough.


do want me to be even more brutal?

Not a bad rx8 and bike. I like the bike more.

you aked for it, bucko. your shading sucks. you need to look at reflections from life. study actual cars. it is clear that you do not do this. if you did, then your reflections would be more convincing. you are flying blind into a cloud.

secondly, you, as of yet, cannot handle materials seriously. you are very green. you need to stop trying so hard at sex, so to speak. you belabor the smudging until it is clumsy and heavy-handed. relax. you are not relaxing with your drawings. i can tell. the drawings are the ultimate truth-tellers. i can tell what is going on with you, tiger. you are so tensed-up and in bondage.

third, why have you gone to the expense of shading only to ignore the environment? why are these vehicles floating in space? where is the light source? this is THE biggest problem, sport. YOU HAVE NOT ESTABLISHED ANY IMMEDIATELY RECOGNIZABLE LIGHT SOURCE. this is why the drawings are weak and 'tentative.' since you are blind, you cannot see where you are going. you cannot tell, and neither can we, what theme is at work. you have copied from photographs not understanding what is happening in those enviroments.

you cannot understand photographs because you do not understand what happens in real life. i can see that, too. you cannot hide. if you understood real life, you would imbue the flat photograph with elements of the living, breathing world of 3-d. and you have not. so you are flying blind into a cloud, copying photographs with some talent for "eyeballing," but very little skill. you do not understand perspective.

to be able to copy, even mediocre-wise, which you have done, a photograph is not impressive. tracing or "eyeballing" photographs is not impressive if you cannot already draw. do yourself a big favor and go out and draw reality for a change. you cannot shortcut to "slick" looking photo-realism with mild drawing talent and little skill. this is what you have attempted to do.

you DO have talent to draw. in fact, if you practiced more, you could be really great. but that is just idle talk: you have very very underdeveloped skill. and you cannot pretend to have skill because your drawings reveal everything that you are about. you have not drawn enough. you have not observed reality enough.


do want me to be even more brutal?


how can you get more brutal than that....although it's true.... of course i cant say i'm any better

how can you get more brutal than that....although it's true.... of course i cant say i'm any better

you can get better by heeding what i said. get some mileage on you. it will pay off. trust it.

Bonzelite ur the greatest thanx a lot man ...thank u that was exactly what i was praying for.. thats the fuel i need to go on

Bonzelite ur the greatest thanx a lot man ...thank u that was exactly what i was praying for.. thats the fuel i need to go on

:rofl: i become a sadist and you like the lickin'.

stay the course, man. keep doing it. you know what to do now.

one question tho ..how do u figure things out when there are multiple sources of light....and those reference pics were taken in a studio ...so there were no "outside elements" affecting the vehicles.

one question tho ..how do u figure things out when there are multiple sources of light....and those reference pics were taken in a studio ...so there were no "outside elements" affecting the vehicles.

you must study lighting, my man. watch the sun set, go to the beach, the woods, look at cars in parking lots. you cannot replace this with quick-fixes or only books. you must be in the world, in accord with it. take more walks or bike rides to see what is really around you. open your eyes and see things like you just landed here from mars.

get a camera and pay attention to lighting situations. be very careful and observant, like a renaissance artist. become a scientist. multiple lighting only means that instead of one source, you have two, or six. so the f/x will be the same, just multiplied. it is like building a sandwich. study basic cinematograhy. get a book on that.

Man bonzelite I'm glad you're here.

Do you think you could give us your take on french curves,ellipse sets and other drawing tools as they relate to automotive illustration and design?

I freehand a lot and I use tools a lot because I draw a lot of stuff. As a draughtsman as well as an illustrator I imagine you have views on both sides as well.

Thanks again,

-Lemorris

Man bonzelite I'm glad you're here.

Do you think you could give us your take on french curves,ellipse sets and other drawing tools as they relate to automotive illustration and design?

I freehand a lot and I use tools a lot because I draw a lot of stuff. As a draughtsman as well as an illustrator I imagine you have views on both sides as well.

Thanks again,

-Lemorris

lemorris, i will answer your questions:

to you and others, it is not a sin to use tools --as a draftsman, you must use tools! guides, rulers, french curves, even tracings, are all useless in the hands of an idiot. so use anything it takes to make a drawing great! you are free agents to do as you wish; i am serious. if you do not have a solid foundation in technical and life drawing, you cannot trace or use tools worth a damn. you must learn to draw. you must overcome the masturbation of copying from still lifes or photographs. you must make this available to your mind's eye on demand. you must be able to draw anything at any given time, without or with tools. so get drawing.

tools are not a crutch! they are an aid; they will not draw anything for you. but you must learn the rules to break them effectively. you must learn draughtsmanship to push the envelope of tools: if you spend your formative years as an artist/draftsman/mechnaic only using tools to avoid actually drawing from your mind, with your own hands, you will be afraid to remove these training wheels and ride the bike on two wheels. then you will only be a copyist. and a hack. and not very versatile. you will become a one-trick-pony. or you will be enslaved to the computer wacom tablet.

do you understand? i will exploit beyond the limit of what some tools are intended for; and i use tools constantly: i use xerox machines to enlarge, reduce, photoshop to augment contrast and color levels, scanners, adobe illustrator, pencils, ballpoint pens, ad markers, liquid paper, french curves, paper plates, napkins, anything. i'm not kidding. i will use anything because i CAN use anything without my mommy punishing me. if i find i have left some tools at home, or i am fresh out of some, i will improvise, as i can draw solidly from life, from photographs, from my imagination. i am a free man --so i say to you, be that same way; do whatever the hell you want to get it done.

sometimes i need references because i am not born knowing what everything looks like! so i must use photographs and books. what does an intake plenum from a SR20DET look like? i dunno. haven't drawn it enough. so i go buy an import/tuner magazine to find out. i have a huge library of books here at home. i am student of the world. so YOU must become this. it is like becoming a doctor. it is lifelong and years-in- the-making. do you understand me?

Oh I understand you completely!!

I spend my 9 to 5 as an instructional technologist for a major healthcare company. I develop interactive training modules and simulations in flash for hospital sysytems worldwide. When I come home I develop web sites and draw cars.

I learned how to use the "tools" back in the early 90's when I was in art school with my wife. I too have used torn paper or a casette case or a coffee cup to get that shape right.

I totally agree with your point about drawing in general as well. It's like fundamentals in any sport. It takes practice to get better. I will be doing a new shirt design the the Southern Arizona Buick club this weekend. (7 years as a screenprinter) I have to draw a '48, a '55, and a '69. I'll freehand my sketches using photographic reference, I'll transfer after transfer on my light table, and I'll ink the stuff that can be inked freehand, but when someone is paying you...you better not ink the wheels freehand! If my rims don't look like the rims that the car rolled out of the factory on I'm failing my client, and myself. Buick didn't make a warped wheel. (there is artistic license of course,...but you know what I'm sayin). Club enthusiasts demand accuracy..or no $$.

I appreciate your perspective. To be honest I knew what you would say....that's why I asked. I see a lot of anti-tool talk around here and I think it's just because lots of people don't know.

On another note all tools aren't expensive. Thom Taylor made his own curves. You can buy the standard set for $5. I also have a huge library that I draw from constantly. We moved recently and my father cursed me for having to take 4 loads of books in my mini-van. Harley Earl and his boys all used tools, and they made the dream cars of a generation.

Anyway thanks again. Heed these words all you up and coming pencil-nubs. This guy knows.

-Lemorris

p.s. I saw a commercial for the USA special you did the work for last night. Featuring the GTO? Cool.

i dont use tools because i am just that good.









:rofl: I WISH!!!! ive never tried tools before because ive never felt that ive needed it. but i bet if i try them i will be addicted. kinda like photoshop...i thought i could live without it :disappoin ....oh...i was wrong

LOLOL

Not the case at all. An ellipse is no more addictive than a pencil. They are both tools. The computer is no more valuable...it's just a tool. I use brushes, chalk, ink, spit...whatever. I draw a lot of cartoons, and I rarely use tools to ink them. As an artist it's important to arm yourself as you go off to do battle in this cruel cruel world. You don't ever want to get caught with your pencil down.

-Lemorris

p.s. sorry for hijackin your thread. This should have been brought up outside.

well then start a thread about what kinda tools we all use. :biggrin:

Oh I understand you completely!!
Anyway thanks again. Heed these words all you up and coming pencil-nubs. This guy knows.

-Lemorris

p.s. I saw a commercial for the USA special you did the work for last night. Featuring the GTO? Cool.

thank you for informing me on yourself and where you are with your art and craft and livlihood.

yes. it is for the GTO.

in commercial illustration, it is often expected that the artist trace directly a photograph to get maximum representation of the object. and it saves loads of time. and time is $$$ as you well know.

if you cannot draw anyway, you are only cheating yourself the opportunity to learn it and be better. tools are not crutches. they are tools. every expert mechanic has a toolbox.

Very nice....your proportion looks pretty good to me. As for constructive comments....I'd have to say the biggest thing that needs to be worked on is shading. Lots of people will probably suggest you use a stump or tissue or some type of blending tool but I suggest that you instead just draw very very lightly. It's a bit of a pain because it takes longer but the results make up for the time. shade in layers, build up your darker areas by putting on more lightly drawn layers instead of pressing harder with your pencil. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say it doesnt feel like I am explaining myself too clearly. The pictures look good, some of the better work I've seen on this site so far...

this post is pretty old.

Thats what I thought. TIM!