1.8L vs BP-T vs 2.5L

I've seen fast MX3s with all three engines in them...and I'm starting to wonder which one is really the best.
K8ZE
should the 1.8L v6 remain in the car and just work that engine to it's full potential. This would mean forged pistons, valve springs, retainers, cam shaft, and so on and so forth, and a nice hybrid or preferably bigger turbo.

KLZE
should the KLZE be swapped in at the cost of a small turbo, and then pay even more to get that engine forged, and throw a turbo on that.

BP-T
should the already turbo'ed engine be swapped in and replace the stock turbo with a bigger one and take advantage of the larger cylinders.
PLEASE HELP ME! I am planning on buying a new engine, whether swapping it, or getting another K8. I just need to know which one!

for the price to soup up the 1.8 you might as well just make a decision...

to turbo or not to turbo?

if turbo is the way you wish to go....get the BP-T

but for me (not to turbo) i went w/the ZE and got it bored out. along w/a gob of other mods. the ze's high compression ratio isnt great for boosting. not to say it cant be done but there is just no room for error.

it all just depends on if you want to mess w/the turbo...if so, great....but if not there's an alternative that will (if you bore the engine out n' such) will put you down in the 13's. but even the stock ze w/a few simple mods will put you in the mid to low 14's

i guess it all really boils down to that and $$$ GOOD LUCK

You said I shouldn't turbo the KLZE? Why not...wouldn't the V6 turbo be better than the 4 cyl BP-T? The compression isn't that high...it's 10:1 right?

i guess 10:1 is high when it comes to turbo'ing....

...thats what i've always heard...that it's a pain(maybe just a little tougher) to turbo the ZE


babyblue will know he's goin the turbo route...

the bp comes wth 225 hp with turbo i heard

no...all the sources I've seen, and everyone I've talked to says it has 200. People just like it more because it is turbo ready...all you have to do is strengthen up your engine and you're ready to add more boost.

Babyblue, would turbo'ing the KLZE be smart? or should the BP-T be swapped in instead?

KLZE Turbo, as it has been said many times before, IS possible, but be prepard to fork out over 5,000$ to do it. It takes a lot of Work as well, since the Compression is so high, throwing in Forced induction could blow some new air holes in your hood, and lose some pistons at the same time lol.

It is do-able, but the KLZE is already 197hp, throw on some basic mods and you're at 220 pretty quick. I dont know why you would want more, unless you're ready to fork out big bucks.

I'm looking for 250-300 hp out of this car. I'm sick and tired of getting stepped on by the mustang 5.0s, and Cobras, and the eclipse GS-t/x's. I've been made fun of for driving a Mazda, and everyone says its slow...which it kinda is. So I'm going to pull out this 250hp beast, and kick them all back to the blueprints of their cars.

I checked, and a MX3 with 250hp, will run 12 secs on the 1/4 mile. one with 300 will run about 11. That's what I want. I want to step on the Supras, and Cobras out there!

Having a 300hp MX3 will take a lot of Time, Effort, and mostly MONEY.

BTW, a KLZE MX-3 is able to spank 5.0's so Ive heard, Ill get back to on that one in August :D

And not just that, but this is still an MX-3 we're talking about.. Supras still go for like 80,000$ and Eclipse GST's arrent cheap either... How much did you pay for your MX-3 again?? ;)

Where did you get the idea that a 300 hp MX-3 will run 11's?? That WILL NOT happen. I don't care if you have sa fully stripped interior, race tires, and a majorly built engine. FWD buddy!!!! No traction. Are you going to have a LSD? without that you have no chance of breaking 12's, even. Good luck, though. Good choice in cars.

it's been done... read articles Superstreet had one with a custom modded I-4 and it only cranked out 197 or so and run in the 12's I if my memory serves me properly... www.mx-3.com as more articles if you want to look. also the FF as more traction than a FR the FF is like a front engine version of a MR... off the line a MR is the way to go when dealing with a 2wd car.

I disagree completely. FF cars DO NOT have more traction than FR cars. Why on earth would automakers use a front engine, rear drive detup on all of their high performance cars? Corvette, Mustang, Viper, Ferrari, Lambo, BMW, and the list goes on........ (obviously some have mid engine, or AWD). FWD is for drivability in the city, not on the track. Anything is possible with enough money, but realisticly, 11's or even 12's are not gonna happen.

I guess I missed this thread...ok here we go

First 1.8 vs 2.5 vs bpt

don't even think about hte 1.8 for big power.this one is out of the question...
2.5 and bpt can acheive really high hp numbers. I just need time and $$ to do it..I've seen a probe klde TT 650hp engine..and i've seen bpt's run 11 flat..so everything is possible....I'd say if you have a 6cyl engine keep it a 6cyl..
yeah true I'm going ze-t...it's not a big deal..people are just scared to do it because everybody HEARD that is bad to do it..on probetalk the fastest trap speed with a second gen probe was made by Nick (my-probe_his_faster)..he hit high 12's with a 10psi ze untuned...
Yeah sure it's not all that great on the engine but it's not worst than 14psi on a klde that make the same amout of power than a 10psi ze...get a good fuel set-up, good intercooler, racing gaz, colder plugs and you'll take care of the high compression engine...

on another note...bone stock ze's are even with a 5.0L..mildly modded ze will past in front..and believe me I know :naughty:

and i don't remember who said a 250 mx3 will run 12's and 300 11's that is not true at all....
Jeff Abrams's old mx3 made 300WHP and hit 13's..and this ugy knows is things...this guy in my area has a 11's mx3 and will do 10's this summer..he has a 4 cyl pusing around 25psi..don't know much about it tho..

and IMO rwd cars have better traction than fwd cars

I agree, that on the drag strip i'd rather have a rwd. but when you get into racing on the streets, around corners that are 90 degrees, the point and drive of the FWD is very stable, and easier to drive.

As to the MX3 that runs 11s, you said there is a guy with a bpt in your area....is it red, with the big hoosier drag slicks?

yeah red with slicks...how did you know...He has the just the frame of Dave Lauzier's ex car and put his engine in it

I saw it on mx3.com...I think it said it was dave's car though...maybe it was just old.

I just figured that there can't be too many mx3 bpts that run 11s. Do you know how much hp he is pushing?
That was actually the guy I was talking about when I said that I've seen BP-Ts that were really fast. Is there a reason that he went with the BP-t instead of the KLZE?

As to the MX3 not being able to run 11 sec on 300 hp...I used a 1/4 mile calc to figure it out, and, at 2400lbs, and 300 hp, our cars will run 11.67 secs...this is probably a little fast...but not much

why those 1/4 mile calculators dont work is traction issues. Even Babyblue who doesnt have 300hp has to be careful on the takeoff not to have hardcore traction issues. Like it or not, FWD is not the best for dragracing because the weight transfer takes traction off the drive wheels

As to the MX3 not being able to run 11 sec on 300 hp...I used a 1/4 mile calc to figure it out, and, at 2400lbs, and 300 hp, our cars will run 11.67 secs...this is probably a little fast...but not much

according to a precise program a 300hp (klze turbo) and 250 torque mx3 should be around 13.2 @ 109.8..
I try to program couple of times and it is very acurate

I used the one on MKIV.com.

I know FWD is not the best, but I'm not a millionaire, so I can't do a RWD conversion. So I'm just going to make the best of it.

But, under 300hp, traction issues shouldn't be that bad...should they...?
My friend is driving a 260hp Civic...(I know, it's a civic...but you can't pick your friends by the kind of cars they drive! :grinno: ), and he doesn't seem to have bad traction issues. But then again, he isn't the best driver! :icon16:

the Civic must be a well tuned SI, I can't imagine a EX, LX or DX models doin that.. lol

it's a mid '90s model....not sure of the call letters. It's a two door sedan, not sure what kind of mods he has on it... I just met him at pepboys like a month ago.

have any of you guys seen the mx-6 (ze VERY well tuned) putting out 196whp runnin low 13's???

nope can't say i have...a well tuned ZE only puts out 196?

a stock one is 197 :/ and 13s are pretty ambitious for a 197hp mx-6, unless it weighs nothing. Prolly just a typo

http://forums.probetalk.com/showthread.php?t=1701091079&highlight=mods

couldnt find the video....broken link....but thies page has his dyno sheets...

I just thought that a well tuned ZE would put out more than 196hp. Hadn't really thought about the 1/4 mile time though...now that I think about it, it does sound really high for a 196 hp mx6. Our MX3s wont even run low 13s on a KLZE without mods.

something smells........fishy.

nah, seen the vid...its an mx-6 w/what looks like 10inch slicks (maybe not 10inches but they were small) raced a supra.....ran like a 13.5 somthing. (supra ran like a 12 something and beat him.)

i figure w/that engine setup in the mx-3 which weighs a little less....it should run the low 13's

but youre right, you need a lot of mods to push 13's out of the ze, but i've seen a ze hit 13.7 w/o forced induction....*arronthehic on mx-3.com*

w/overbore you'd prolly run 13.2's er so, just a guess

I think you guys are talking about 2 different things here....that mx6 should have 196 TO THE WHEELS probably and a ze is 196 TO THE CRANK making it about 160 to the wheels...When you guys give hp numbers specify what hp are you talking about...I've seen the one with the mid 13's mx6 video..IIRC it was a green mx6 with slicks right?

IIRC it was a green mx6 with slicks right?

yeah!! it was an mx6 w/a ze that was pushing (i thought) 196 to the WHEELS. thats how i figured if that engine was in an mx-3 on a diet it might run a time in the mid to low 13's

yeah it would be a good estimate

ok...that clears alot up...thanks babyblue.

what about at http://www.a1jdmengines.com/mazda-engines.html they have the BPT turbo engine that comes with a awd transmission for $1700 not so bad for a engine with a turbo

that is 1700$ USD... and it is kinda pricey, but you would also need A LOT of modifications to your car to install an AWD tranny on an MX3... the 1700$USD just gets the engine and tranny in your garage... expect double that to get it in and working well.

ya but still $3,400 USD would be such a small cost compaired to the reward of having a AWD MX-3 also your resale value would skyrocket considerin you would have one of the only ones ever!

your resale value would skyrocket considerin you would have one of the only ones ever!

Although technically you're right, people would most of the time rather put money into a car, and not just spend like 10Gs on an already built MX3... if you start putting mods like that in your car, its cuz you wanna keep it. Its like my car... my car is a piece of shit, and if I were to sell it, I would not get anywhere near what I have put into it (in repairs), so I may as well spend a bit more and makle it an awesome little sports car for my own enjoyment. When it comes time to sell, Im not gonna get much thats for sure. The car is already 11 years old. :banghead:

In my area there are tons of people who don't want to spend the time or money to set up a car... there are many people who would rather buy a mechanically setup car than a stock one... now when you get into exterior styling and such you may not get the high value. But I do think if you have a car that is one of a kind you can get a good dollar for it

I would pay alot to get an MX3 that is AWD. I would hate to have to go through all that modding...I would enjoy the challenge, but face it, converting a car to AWD is not easy. I can see where you are coming from though mx3man. I would rather mod my own car than have someone else do it.

ya but still $3,400 USD would be such a small cost compaired to the reward of having a AWD MX-3 also your resale value would skyrocket considerin you would have one of the only ones ever!
Yeah, I know this is a really old thread, but I had to put in my 2 pence: Believe me when I say (from a similar experience) that you do NOT want to even try to make a 4wd MX3! Beyond the motor and tranny, you need a rear axle, new rear suspension, new shifter linkage, etc...ad nauseum. You would literally have to get GVWR at the wheels to calculate sptring weights after all was done, and that would take forever , since you would need to gut the interior, so you could cut out a tunnel for the read driveshaft, and tub out the rear hatch to male room for the pumpkin/dear diff (depending on whether you go the easy route or not. I f you take the hard route (steal the rear out of a Subaru) you might as well lease a Ferrari, and pimp in style! :smokin:

any of you guys ever hear of cyborg zero they sell engine kits for the 2.5 for like 1300 someting like 650hp 11-1 compresion

yes, a friend of mine who is also on here (babybluemx3) just bought a set of 8.7cr pistons from them for his sick turbo setup he has going.

my only question about the set up is how can all three setups 8.5,8.7&11cr produce the same amount of hp the more the cr the more hp you have