brakes

a little while ago my brakes started to squeek, especially when braking in reverse, and today they started to make my whole car shake when i was close to coming to a complete stop. they slow me fine when i'm going at any driving speed, it's just when i'm trying to come to a complete stop that they make the whole car shake. what the hell is causing this?

it might be that your brake rotors are warp and and when you step on the brakes ur pad are grabin them and sicne its warped then it shakes the car.

squealing is emitted from any vibrations on your brakes. This can be caused by any contact between your pads, rotors, and metal shims on the back of the pads, the piston in the caliper, or your caliper guide bolts. First solution:

It is most likely your brake pads. Most modern pads have a metal warning clip on them, when the meat of the pad wears down enough, this metal clip comes into contact with your rotor and produces an extremely annoying high pitched squeal. If this is the case the pads need 2 be replaced.

2nd solution: your rotors need replacing or resurfacing. If there are grooves in them, or if they are warped they will cause high pitched squeals. Alot of people don't think it is their rotors, but they actually can warp rather easy. FOr instance, if one doesn't properly tighten their lugnuts on a wheel and htey are not all torqued to roughly the same tightness, this can cause warpage.

3rd solution: It may just be some small vibration of parts or bolts. Pepboys and autozone sell a 3 dollar spray can of brake lubricant called no-squeal or anit-squeal or something. Spraying this liberally on the metal backs of hte pads, the guide bolts(these also need to be torqued to correct specs or they can cause warped rotors and such) and the ring of the piston can eliminate most of these squeals.

My guess, if you havn't had your brakes worked on recently, it is most likely the 1st and possibly the 2nd. If it is your rotors, alot of mechanics will resurface them for you for 7 dollars a rotor rather than buying a new one. However if it is worn down too much this is not possible for safety reasons. Also with the lubricant, you must be careful not to get this on the front of the pads or the rotors, because that will eliminate hte friction necessary to bring you to a stop.
My first piece of advice, would be to jack up the car nearest to the wheel producing the sound. Take off the wheel and look at your brake pads, if they look low, or if the metal clip is touching your rotors, then go from there. If there are grooves in the rotors, then go from there. Also remember to check the backside of hte rotor and the pad on that side as well, not just hte ones on the outside.
Brake jobs are fairly easy if you have a friend who can do it, i suggest asking for help and learning how to do it yourself, as you can save plenty of money. I would say go for it yourself, but if by chance you screw it up...that isn't the part of the car that you don't want working. Also another pain in the @ss is hondas rotors. THey are the only company in hte world who felt it necessary to mount them to hte hub. You need a special tool to get the rotors off the hub. Good luck, hope htis helps. Also shop online for any needed parts. www.tirerack.com sells a variety of pads and rotors and you can usually save money from them or other online vendors.

very thorough - can't thank you enough. i'll post and let you know what happened. can the brake pads being that low actually cause the car to vibrate though? i put the wheel back on the car myself and just tighten the bolts til they feel tight, with no regards for torque. is that wrong?

Well first question...if they are worn down all hte way, and there is no more pad material left, then yes they could be grinding and causing alot of vibration, also the longer this happens, the more damaged your rotors will be.
Secondly, as far as not torquing the lugnuts, honestly I never have used a torque wrench on them in my life, and I havn't had problems. But hey, it is advisable. What I do, put hte wheel up, handtighten the lugnuts in a star shaped pattern, (dont tighten the 2 next to each other first) once they are all handtight and the wheel spins if you tighten any more, let down the car off hte jack and tighten them all as evenly as you can. That works for me, but if you have a torque wrench, it isn't a bad idea to use it.

aight i got the pads and the manual ready, about to go outside and tackle this. govert, do you think this could be linked to another problem that developed recently: when i put my car in reverse, it squeeks, whether or not i'm braking, just moreso if i do brake

okay i was out there for 2 hours (no exaggeration) and i couldn't get the caliper to come loose. i sprayed both of the connecting bolts with wd40, and they would still not budge. (the haynes manual doesn't even say you need to loosen them). what am i missing here? i really don't wanna pay someone to do such a simple job

I always have to use a rubber hammer on the wrench to loosen those bolts. Otherwise, I've never had any problem with them. (Actually, you only need to remove the lower one, then swing the caliper up). I hope you are attacking the correct bolts.

I'd be interested to know how Hayes thinks you're going to get the pad out without touching the bolts! (I use a Chilton manual).

Oh -- we are talking about FRONT brakes here, aren't we? Rear are a bit different (but still a rubber hammer job!).

ya i don't know i'm pretty sure they don't mention anything unless i misread, the manual is in the car. i don't have a rubber hammer, but i was banging it with a wrench, and using all the force i could and i'm pretty strong. also i put wd 40 on it and that didn't make much of a difference (although i did that in the last 20 min of working on it, maybe it needed more time). any other tips on how to loosen that damn screw, i mean i even tried just standing on the damn thing and it wouldn't budge, the wrench has slid off so many times with too much force that's it's mashing the outside of the nut. wanna get this done quick cuz i'm riding on my ebrake everywhere

Wait a minute: Where the caliper bolts (NOT nuts) are, you COULDN'T stand on the wrench unless you were about 1 foot tall -- they are on the inboard side of the caliper. I wonder what you are trying to loosen?

you can still stand on it. i know it was the right *bolt*(haha my bad). let me rephrase, i put my foot on it, then leaned over in my engine bay and grabbed my strut bar, then tried bouncing on it. you can get your foot in there, but i see what you're saying you definitely can't stand up straight over it. shit description sorry

Really stupid (and maybe insulting - sorry) question. Being as how you are "working backwards" on those bolts, you couldn't be tightening them, could you?

You wouldn't be able to do your "standing" trick on the left side front wheel, only the right.

Like I said - sorry!

hahahaha no i was doing it on the right front wheel. that would have ruined my day though had i been pushing it backwards.

codger - i posted this somewhere else, but do you think it's bad for the car to use the handbrake until i get this pad thing resolved? people were telliing me no, though i don't see a problem with it

actually wait - you did reply to that. i know it's only rear wheels, and i'm being careful. how is that gonna ruin my axles? when people drift and stuff they use their hand brakes with much more force than what i'm doing. i'm not talking long term, i'm just using it to stop between my apt and class for a few days

The axles comment didn't come from me. I can't see why that'd happen. I WOULD be nervous about relying on such a low-efficiency brake system, even for a short while, when the need for sudden stops can occur at any time.

(Thanks for not being - or, at least showing being - insulted)

I'm afraid I'm all out of ideas. But I would recommend a rubber hammer (now or the next time). The amount of shock seems to be just right.

Well, now, wait a minute - what about dousing the front of the caliper with boiling water? It might help, and it can't hurt (the brakes get a lot hotter than that in normal operation). It might give you just a bit of expansion.

Rats, I think I deleted my response.

The warning about axles didn't come from me. I just expressed concern about relying on a handbrake, when an emergency can crop up at any time.

I still recommend the rubber hammer - it seems to have just the right amount of "shock."

Another suggestion - douse the front of the caliper with boiling water. It might help (with a little expansion) and can't hurt - the brakes get hotter than that in normal operation.

Hey, man, I'm not called "AccordCodger" for nothing - I didn't delete my response --- arrrggh! So, you get the same advice twice. Maybe that makes it twice as good?

haha i'll try that when i get a chance- too many damn finals. you seem to know ur shit, what do you think about them saying that about hte axles? i mean i actually had to do a quick stop yesterday because an intersection ilght was out and it was crazy, but i mean if i gotta brake quick i'll use the pedal, it's just i feel like i'd be causing more damage to the rotor than i could ever cause by using the hadnbrake.

when people do drifting, they use their hadnbrakes right? will that snap their handbrake cables? i mean i know i used to use my handbrake all the time for sliding around, and was way harder on it than going like 35 tops and slowing gradually. i think they don't know what they're talking about

I know of no reason why using your handbrake will do any damage (except maybe to rear tires as you lock up!). I don't understand the negative comment about the axles.

As far as snapping the cables is concerned, it seems to me that if they snap that easily (unless they are rusted), then it wouldn't be much use as an emergency brake.

Good luck with the boiling water -- let us know.

Ok, my girlfriend wants me to get back to studying for my last final, so I will have to make this quick.
First off, about the caliper bolts. If you are absolutely positive you have hte right ones, as there are the caliper bolts and then hte bolts that attach the caliper positioning frame thing(sorry can't remember what it is called).
Providing you have the right bolts, have you tried a decent socket wrench, that will help most likely in not slipping off, and making sure you are going hte right way...(i've been stupid enough to go the wrong way before myself) They can be a b!tch, but they should come off. Next tip, only loosen the top, hten remove the bottom one, you can then swing hte caliper up, and use a clothes hanger to hang it from your springs. Make sure you don't twist or put too much pressure on your brake cables. My best advice would be a socket wrench.
Also make sure you are giving hte car time to cool down after driving it. The brakes get ridiculously hot and without proper cool down times it will be impossible to get them loose.

Next as far as the hand brake, it is really a poor braking system as has been mentioned, I wouldn't rely on it, as it has meager stopping power. Also, if you use it at too high speeds it can break(don't ask, but I've seen it happen). Try downshifting as much as possible. That's all the advice I can give now, but I think it would be easier without boiling water. Good luck, keep us posted.

wait wait don't go study!!! kidding i'm actually doing the same but i'm only worried about the car - will i ruin anything by using my handbrake 95%? i will keep you guys posted hopefully i'll get a chance tomorrow or the next day to get out there again

okay - had a chance to go attempt it again today. sprayed both bolts liberally with wd40, and brought out a hammer. with the hammer we were able to remove the top one, but realized too late that it's the bottom one that needs to be removed to pivot around the top one. even with wd40 and the hammer the lower screw won't budge. any other tricks before i bring this to a shop? i know that they're gonna have to get that screw off i just don't know what they're gonna do that i'm not doing. it's actually starting to mash the outside of the screw.

My brakes have been acting up also so I decided to check it out this evening. I tried to pull the caliper off a few days ago and it wouldn't budge an inch on account of the bolts. So I tried another whack at it, and I totally understand what he means by make sure you get the right bolts. I spent about 5 minutes on the wrong ones before I looked in a bit more and noticed another set which was actually attached the to caliper bracket (that thing that the caliper actually attaches to). What's funny is I've removed my calipers twice in the past and never had this problem before!

I thought I'd take a pic just so you can verify you're working on the right bolt (I tried standing on the other ones too, not a milimeter moved!) With the correct bolts, it would be impossible to stand on them because the socket wrench will be positioned vertically (on account of the fact the caliper and strut assembly are preventing it from going horizontal). There's not a whole lot of room to hit the wrench, but once you free it, you can pull the bolts out with your hands.

Anyway, here's the pic. Hope you can get them off now. I used my feet and grabbed the caliper with my hands, but it probably didn't require that much force.

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/12/web/588000-588999/588732_19_full.jpg

(Edit: Oops didn't read that last post of yours...)

well i'll be damned

yup i was working on the wrong ones. the place that sold me the brake pads brought out a brand new caliper and gave me a demo showing me that way. i actually got the top one of those bolts out after bashing it with a hammer. nice now maybe i can do this job. sux cuz i'm taking finals now and don't have the time to go outside and mess with it. i'll let you know what happened. thanks again

Holy shit dude, I didn't think getting those off was even possible! I've got midterms next weel and finals a week after that (yeh, what's the sense in doing them so close together?) so I feel your pain. I'm waiting for the term to end before I do some new struts. Good luck man!

ha i'm gonna be doing struts/shocks/camber hopefully midway through summer. i'll try not to bombard you with pm's hahah. is that pic the most current of ur car? i just got my hands on a digital camera and am about to set up a page on car domain tonight. i'll post the link later

Most current? Nah, I just washed it today =) But it features everything I've done to my car up to this point. I took some pics for a spring/strut DIY tutorial and I'll try to put that up on my cardomain page before you do your drop, then you can have some insight on exactly what to do. It's really quite easy, 3 nuts on top, 2 bolts on bottom (plus 2 for brake line) and then the strut is out. After that, one nut on top and your springs are separated from your struts. That's the front, the rear is easier, except you have to pull out your trunk lining. 2 nuts on top, one bolt on bottom, then the last nut on top of the strut assembly.

I'd definitely suggest renting a spring compressor just incase. But make sure it's not all rusted and shitty like part of mine was, because then it'll slow you way the hell down.

Try autozone, they have a nice program where you can borrow those tools that you wish you had for once in a lifetime jobs, but you can't justify buying them. They will lend you tools, like the spring compressor, for just a deposit, kinda like a tap for a keg of beer. Same type of thing. Good luck

Right, forgot to add that to the whole definition of their "renting" program. It's really a loaner tool, free of charge (once you return it). I still have mine because I plan on instsalling new struts.

I uploaded the pics of the 5-step strut removal tutorial. They're on the 3rd page of my cardomain site.

http://www.cardomain.com/id/tetsuo_ishida

It is no problem to use the hand brake...
And, the rear brakes wear much slower on these cars...so often the rear shoes are quite good...

What did the pads cost? rotors?

And, is it nessary to get the metalic brake pads?

to be honest i got these 20$ pads, the cheapest they had, from a local parts shop.. planning on replacing front and back w/ better ones in the near future. ya i'm glad someone agreed it's not bad to use the hand brake, i've been doing it for like over a week constantly, and haven't had a problem, except that it seems to have lost a little tension, which i'm attributing to either the pads wearing down or the wire being stretched. why do the rear brakes wear slower? is it because of the pads or because, when used properly, the rear brakes get less action than the front?

Rear pads wear slower, because when you hit your brakes, due to momentum, the weight shifts forward and most of it is transfered to your front. That is why you feel the nose of the car lower when you slam your brakes. For this reason the front pads have a tendency to wear down quicker due to the extra stress they recieve.

As far as metallic pads, here's my .02 The cheap ones(some guarenteed to be lifelong) are so, because they are so strong that rather than wear down the pad, the rotor gets worn to hell because the pad is a stronger metal than the rotors.
The other option is a semi-metallic pad, like Stillen Metalmatrix for example. Now some of these provide great stopping power, the only problem is that they don't work ideally until warmed up a bit. So if you drive in a cold area, or even for the first few stops everyday, the pads are sub-par. This is not hte case with the Stillen pads I mentioned above, they are one of the exceptions to the rule, due to their composite. Also ceramic pads are good to look into.

No metalic pads are not necessary. A good idea might be to check out www.tirerack.com, they allow you to enter in your car make and model, and then they give you a pretty decent list of different kinds of pads and rotor options available.

jajimo - i tried that bolt, couldn't get it loose, even w/ wd40. tried for like 15 minutes. if that bolt did come off, wouldn't that move the caliper housing along with the caliper? i thought the idea was to move the caliper away from its housing. and also, did you actually remove yours? because if you unscrewed what the arrow points to and pulled the caliper/caliper housing unit, you would get tension from the line connected to the caliper after like an inch and a half. to be sure i tried the top and bottom corresponding ones but no luck. this sux i've spent so much time trying to get at those damn pads i don't understand what the hell my problem is

I don't know what to tell ya man, I got mine loose easy, and yeah, those two (inner) bolts are the only things holding it on. The caliper (what housing?) connects via those two bolts to the caliper mounting bracket (large metal piece behind rotor). As soon as the bolts are out, the caliper should slide out sideways (don't drop it!) because it's built so that it can really only be mounted so that the holes line up. The only way to replace the pads or rotors or anything is to remove your entire caliper. It should stay intact the entire time, so no need to disassemble the actual caliper itself. You do have to be careful with the brake line though, it shouldn't be tight enough to prevent the caliper from moving, but it will limit your movement. I've taken the caliper off completely to inspect my pads, so that's how I know these are the right bolts. When you pull it off, you'll slide it out and up a bit, then rotate it off (upwards, counter-clockwise). You may want to compress the piston slightly first, by pushing on the caliper from each side (so the pads hit the rotor). I've heard it's necessary to open up your brake fluid container under the hood of your car so excess fluid can come out, but I've never had that problem.

Only suggestion is to try using a rubber mallet, and make sure that you're hitting it to turn it clockwise (while standing facing the front of the rotor). Use a wrench also (instead of a ratchet). Let me know if you still need help.

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/12/web/588000-588999/588732_35_full.jpg

I did that quickly so of course it is somewhat inaccurate/disproportional/etc but it should get the point across.

In step 5, when I say NUTS, I mean BOLTS, sorry!

yo i think you might also be able to get at the pads the way you're showing me but the people at the auto parts store told me to go with the one you labeled 'not this one'. and the people over at accordingly done just told me the same when i showed them ur pic

Huh... well, IMO then, it's easier with the bolts I labled, but maybe that's just cause the other ones seem siezed to hell =/ Whatever works for you! =) I just couldn't get the "yellow" bolts off and the "blue" ones came really easy... either way, I hope you get this figured out... have you tried vise grips on the bolt? It'll fuck it up, but atleast it'll be out. You can always buy a new bolt, but a fucked caliper is expensive!

ya i'm gonna get some liquid wrench and try again either tom or mon. i'll post what happened. wish me luck it's my 21st bday on saturday, and i wanna go home for friday night (well past midnight anyways), but don't wanna drive 2 hours with my ebrake (which is soooo worn out by the way - for the record it either does fuck up the ebrake cable tension or cause the pads to wear insanely quickly, i can pull the cable all the way as fast as i can and it doens't even bring you to a quick stop)

Umm yeh, get that fixed quickly lol. I checked out the thread on Accordingly Done and I guess you could remove that one bottom bolt (opposite of that one I labled in red), I just didn't see any point in doing that if it's on their tight as a bitch... I certainly couldn't get it off lol, and the other two (that attach to the caliper bracket) were easier. Eitherway, good luck and happy B-day (mine was on Tuesday!)

awesome how old are you? well THE PADS HAVE BEEN CHANGED!!!! i must take this chance to recommend liquid wrench. works much better on stuck parts than wd40. but... the bolt that was originally giving me trouble never budged, in fact i have mashed it up so bad i doubt it will ever come off. for the front left i actually got the appropriate bolt off. but for the front left, where i mashed the bolt, i had to take the top caliper bolt off, and unhook the brake line supports (see pic). this worked. gotta say this took me about 3 hours, not including the 3 or 4 previous times i went out there to work on this thing. this time it started down pouring about 5 minutes before i was done. all my tools, the inside of my car all soaking wet. sux. well i should be able to drive home this weekend and hit up the bars at 12:00a on fri night (or sat morn :) ) for first time ever. well first time in usa. anyone has issues w/ brake jobs pm me i feel like a brake master

well, i've been trying to get that pic posted up, but everytime i try to attach it , it seems like it works, but then i chedck the thread and it's not there. little help??? maybe i didn't wait long enough? if anyone knows why i can't upload please post

hahahahahaha jajimo - if you didn't already see, check out v6illusion's page, he's apologizing to you

Not sure why the pic won't load, I just use CarDomain, it's less trouble =P

Glad to hear you got your brakes taken care of hehe =) Sounds like it was a real bitch, but as long as it's done, that's all that matters. Hope they work well for ya!

Yeh, I saw V6illusion's page, and I accepted his apology, I'm not going to act like a childish prick like he was earlier, it's just a stupid website. I'm not going to have ratings or my guestbook enabled though, it's not worth the problems. People just have nothing better to do on there but flick shit at you when most of them either don't have a car at all, or they have a really ghetto ass one and no room to talk. I know my Accord is pretty cool, I don't need validation from some 13 year old punk who can't even type correctly.

Oh, and I turned 19 =) It doesn't make a damn difference though, cause I still can't do anything cool in the States!

ya i made that car domain page a week or two ago. it's cool so i can use it as a link to show peeps my car, but that site is totally for kids. no one there knows anything about cars or how they run. well that's way to general, but most there don't. hahahah the funniest thing is when people put their bone stock cars on there! i always laugh when i actually load up a page to see a stock accord. like 'oh my god'

ya i made that car domain page a week or two ago. it's cool so i can use it as a link to show peeps my car, but that site is totally for kids. no one there knows anything about cars or how they run. well that's way to general, but most there don't. hahahah the funniest thing is when people put their bone stock cars on there! i always laugh when i actually load up a page to see a stock accord. like 'oh my god'

Hehe, it's very difficult to find people who know their shit. Check out some of the guys who are in my Friends list, some pretty sweet cars there. Usually people with the actual JDM Silvias and Skylines know what they're doing =) Everyone else is just a bitch =P