Evo. Vii Tranny??

:confused: WELL the Evo.VII i'm guessing is coming to the US in the SPRING of 2003............But the one thing that caught my attention was the tranny.....IT only comes witha 5-speed?????? or am i wrong?? maybe a factory option possible?? In anycase, that sucks.......if it comes with a 5-speed there is no way i would go with a EVO VII.....well maybe i still will......The love the WRX too. IF the EVO VII came with a 6-speed i'd pick it over a WRX anyday. But watchout cuz subaru is coming with a STi version...if that thing comes with a 6-speed.....all i can say is that BOTH cars are so close that i really wouldn't know which was what. Standard option wise it looks like the EVO VII is much better so far.........STi vs. EVo.VII anyone?????

the VII is the way to go...


You of course DO know before you opened your mouth that a 4speed automatic is better then a 5speed manual and a 6speed manual right?

Know why?
You can make automatics shift WAY faster then any manual...doesn't matter if it is Makinen behind the wheel or not. The 5 speed is better that way you can get your ass off that start line a bit quicker. 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5. Will be quicker then 1 - 6. You just have a different gear ratio. You don't want a 6 speed.

Originally posted by rEVOlution
You of course DO know before you opened your mouth that a 4speed automatic is better then a 5speed manual and a 6speed manual right?

Know why?
You can make automatics shift WAY faster then any manual...doesn't matter if it is Makinen behind the wheel or not. The 5 speed is better that way you can get your ass off that start line a bit quicker. 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5. Will be quicker then 1 - 6. You just have a different gear ratio. You don't want a 6 speed.


There seems to be some misinformation here. :eek:

Please tell us you're kidding...

rev what the hell are you talkin about? who the hell wants a sports car that is an automatic??? what is this damn worl coming to? you need to get with it kid

I'm not saying that an automatic would be better...i'm saying it shifts way faster then you or i could. THAT's my arguement.

Do you actually think you can shift 4 hears in 4 seconds?
or drive the car to that potential?

uh isnt it faster for yourself to switch your own gears.. and you get to decide when you want to.

Manual transmissions are faster than automatics. If you had two extremely high HP car like say 700HP one auto, (automatic racing trannys are not like a Hondas or something, they shift extremely hard and fast) one manual, the manual would probably spin the tires off the line. The auto on the other hand would not spin as much and therefore take it off the line, but probably loose in the 1/4 mile run.

Also, automatics upshift (and downshift) sometimes when you don't want them to. You have little control over them.

Another thing...if autos were faster, why the hell would every kind of race car have a manual??

Manuals are just better at keeping the engine in it's peak performance zone...READ THIS IT WILL EXPLAIN:

http://www.howstuffworks.com/transmission1.htm

Actually he is kind of right. Alot of drag racing cars (mine included) has auto trannys. With an auto you can actually spool your boost up or hit your nitrous and get real nice launches and quick shifts. The auto I run is in my 10 sec street Mustang...it is actaully a reverse manual valve body C4 that requires I shift when I want to by slapping it into gear. There are alot of clutchless manual trannys also used for drag racing. BUT for autox or street driving I prefer a manual tranny.;)

Jesus...
I hate explaining myself....

Your saying humans are better then machines...who are you trying to kid? You can tune an automatic to change gears WAAYYY quicker then any human ever could. Serioiusly...cmon. Now, don't get me wrong...i prefer Manuals over auto's. Only because of what you had said...the feeling of power over the car. Automatics are there becuase they know when to shift. That way you don't burn the clutch, or grind gears. Man your talking about dropping clutches and shit to make the tires spin. Don't sass me man...i've been around cars...and i've done nothing but grow up around them. If you punch the gas in an automatic and your tires don't spin??? Then you don't have enough horsepower. Soleman...i'm sorry but don't talk this shit with me. I'll make you feel stupid

Originally posted by rEVOlution
Automatics are there becuase they know when to shift.

Maybe I'm a big, ignorant crack-smoker, but I've NEVER driven an automatic that I liked. The one test that ALL of them have failed at is the cornering test: As you take a car into a turn and punch it, it takes a fraction of a second to get into the right gear; in a manual, you put it in the right gear and power out of the turn. Do you know of some autos that don't do this, rEVOlution? Becuase I'd really like to know about them if you do...

In my opinion, it's a much better deal all around to have a manual, since life isn't led in a straight line, and even IF I had an auto that could shift faster and more intuitively than I could in a straight line, I'd never use it if it couldn't power out of a corner.

My couple pennies...

You're mad at your Dad not me, take it out on him!!!

And I agree with you about tuning autos to shift quicker than a manual, but the important thing to know is the TIME at which they shift. A manual transmission's brain is the driver's brain. An automatic transmission has really 2 brain's, one is it's computer and the other is the drivers. When you want an auto to do something, you have to tell it to by either giving gas or releasing the gas. Sometimes they don't up/down-shift when you want them to, and somethimes they up-shift when you don't want them to causing the driver to have punch the gas to get the auto tranny to get back into a lower gear.

With a manual, the microsecond a driver wants to shift, he/she doesn't have to tell the transmission to do it, the driver just does it because the driver is the transmission. It really comes down to MORE CONTROL.

Sure you could put a hard shifting auto in your car, but when the race is over and you want to go somewhere, the auto knows only one way to shift and that is hard as a mother fucker.

If autos where faster, then why can't I get a Ferrari in auto?

Another thing...if autos were superior to manuals then why do manuals get better gas mileage?

Mitsubishi sold the 90-94 AWD eclipse in a 5sp and an automatic. The 5 sp came with a bigger turbo and injectors then the AT model. Do you still want an automatic?

Matt

Lets settle this. Automatics are better for drag racing. Why? because they can shift quicker and harder....they also retain lots of torque while shifting that is lost in a manual....but this is only good with 500+ hp cars IMO...the trans tuned to be race shifted..you dont just drive up to a dealer and buy a program car with a race tuned auto..thats why if you dont like them thats because you haven driven one ....you dont *usually* do this to a car you drive to the strip race and drive home.....go look at the 6000 hp funny cars.....auto's baby....but track/road coarse is a different story...your auto cant anticipate every turn and how you want to take it....auto trans is nearly useless here....lets say you want to down shift into a turn and upshift out of it.....how is your auto going to know how to do that? lets say you want to hit the turn hot....down shift, lose traction..and drift through it.....how is your auto going to even know the curve was their.....its not....so its useless. Thats just my opinion on the discussion....if anyone disagrees....lets talk about it.

I totally agree!

my point was that the advantages of drag racing don't matter at all in the real world because you have to drive the car, too.

amen!!

The thing that pisses me off is that SOME people on this board think they can beat an AT in the 1/4...THAT's the point i was making. Cause i'm tired of all the shit about how "Manuals can beat an Auto anytime in the 1/4." It's bullshit and i'm tired of all the smack people have been talking. I was STRICTLY talking about shifting faster...if you want to talk about cornering then we can talk about cornering...sole changed his arguement from saying that he can change gears faster then an auto to...."Well in cornering..." No one buys auto's for rallying or any such business. Like i stated before...Auto's switch faster then any human. That was my arguement...

MANUALS don't get better gas mileage where are you coming from???

Now....wanna talk about cornering?

As for standard automatic cars on the street I dont think it can shift faster than a manual gear box. If you compare two cars identical cars and race them in a straight line with 1 being an auto and the other with a manual, the automatic transmission car will lose.

Now if your talking about a rally car with clutchless shifting in which they shift by pushing up or down on the gear lever then its faster. Like an F1 car it shifts fast with a puch button, which I know that will be faster than a manual clutch with stepping on the clutch. But then again thats a F1 race car so cant compare it with a production car.

Jesus Christ Derek shut up...
you've made me mad talking shit like the manual gearbox is faster then an auto...

Here are some quotes from some articles...

"...manual transmissions (those that require stick shifts) usually get better gas mileage than their automatic counterparts. And because you control the gears, acceleration and hill climbing will prove more effective. Also, downshifting can save wear and tear on your brakes and provides more control in icy or rainy conditions."

Link: http://www.learn2.com/06/0689/0689.asp

"An automatic transmission will have an average of 5-11% poorer fuel economy than to a 5 speed manual transmission that is used properly."

Link: http://www.carjunky.com/news/newtext/40d.shtml

"Like Honda, Toyota knows how to make high-mileage cars. And the Echo's 1.5-liter, 108-horsepower four-cylinder engine combines surprisingly good acceleration with mileage of 34 mpg in city driving, 41 on the highway with a manual transmission (31/28 mpg if you get the automatic)." **notice decreased gas mileage w/the auto**

Link: http://money.cnn.com/pf/autos/features/mileage/page4.html

HOW MUCH MORE PROOF DO U NEED rEVOlution??????????

Here's the DL on automatics and manuals to clear everything up.

Automatics do shift faster than manuals. However, you lose low end torque in the lower RPM range. With a manual transmission, you don't shift as fast, but you get more power off the line and when cycling through the gears.

Nowadays, you can see them improving automatics every which way. I believe it is either BMW or Mercedes that has the Tiptronic transmission so that less power is lost during an automatic shift. Same thing with Ferrari's paddle shift system seen in the 360 Modena. You can upshift and downshift qyuicker than standard manuals and not lose power like that of an automatic.

Anyways, my point is, a manual is faster. So a manual produces wheel spin during launching speeds? Are you a good 1/4 mile runner? I think not. The Viper Hennessey 800 can get a quarter of 10.23 seconds or so. And the tires don't spin, why? Because they warm up the treads on the tire, and let the engine rev up to about 3500 and launch. With that it keeps the tires to stick on start up.

Think about it? Have you ever ridden in a manual and an automatic? Even if it was a low powered car, the manual has a very smooth and powerful type of acceleration, nothing like an auto.

Control with a manual in turns is also much easier. You want an Evo. OK...it has mad cornerning and stuff...but how the hell are you going to control a drift with an auto? You have to keep RPM range high when you are drifting. It is very hard to do that with an auto.

And you don't get wheel spin in an auto because it has jack shit for torque low end.

With a six speed, it means lower gear ratios. Which means quicker shifts through all the gears...which equates to quicker acceleration.

OK I'm done now...people need to get facts straight before they open their mouths about cars.

what about his question STI vs EVO VII? both are awesome cars, but most people rate the VII as the better one. anyone watch Best Motoring?

Every Best Motoring video I saw had the EVO VII beat the STI around the track. Either the EVO came fisrt or second place against the other cars which were NSX, Skyline R34, RX7, STI , etc... On another video they had all these cars including a Porsche 996 and E46 M3 racing in the rain around the track. But the Evo came first because you all should know Evo's handle very well in the rain also.
The STI would come last or second to last. If you have a chance check it out your self and see how it performs. I saw about 6 videos total and it always beat the STI around the 5 lap track. But on straights they were about the same. Not here to dis on STI's but just letting you know what I saw. When comparing the EVO VII and STI the Evo simply beats it around corners.

i said off the line acceleration and shifting are better with the automatic, but the MANUAL beats all...I prefer the manual. People on here were talking about how the manual shift's faster then an auto...

My point...Auto's are tuned to be fast. Manuals...lay in the drivers arm and reflexes...

And as for the MILEAGE confrontation...WHO uses the manual properly???? You pump in and out of gears at high RPM making the car guzzle the gas. You do realize that i'm emphasizing the whole 'proper use' don't you? Another thing...your talking about a 5-11% change??? Who's going to notice a 5-11% change? 'Cause i sure as hell wouldn't...your talking 1-3mileage change from two exactley identical cars. ANOTHER thing....you talking about the focus doesn't mean shit. That car was made for teenie boppers...or daddy's little princess...sooo....give me some more.

Since this is a Lancer forum, lets take the 120HP US Lancer, one manual, and one auto:

The manual will win 0-60...

The manual will win in a 1/4 mile drag race...

The manual will win a race on a track with turns...

And the manual will get better gas mileage...

In daily driving, a 5-11% gas mileage increase adds up after 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 years.

I'm done arguing with you about this...

Ahhhhh, he forfeits at last...

*waves the white flag around*

To all those defending the NEW WAVE TECHNOLOGY automatics......I have a few simple questions that should show your misunderstanding.....Lets say I drive this new ferrari with its updated automatic transmission.....lets just say im city driving.....not racing just flashing around running errands in my ferrari....is the transmission gunna bring it to redline every time before it shifts? because if it does thats alot of wasted gas for cruising around.....alot of extra strain on my engine for no reason..they dont do this....they dont shift at redline *optimal engine performance* they shift at optimal fuel and saftey performance......I have a sedan thats an auto..its nearly impossible to get the computer to shift at redline....so then...what if i want to race? I lose...another thing.....The z06 with all the L options is the fastest production muscle car ever....can you get it in auto? Hell no! why? Cause its a race car and not a city econ cruiser.....or even a flashy ferrari...
Give me the feel control and knowledge of a manual over an auto any f'ing day thats just my opinion

call it what you like.

Let me say something about this. Automatics can be faster when shifting, but the way they come from the factory they are set to smoothly shift from one gear to another. I also think the autos have taller gears a lot of the time because they are usually a gear down from their manual counterpart (4spd auto vs. 5spd manual). I think there is something you can do with the torque converter stall speed (not sure, buy one with a different stall speed?) to help with acceleration off the line. Take for example a Honda Civic auto and 5-spd. These are very low power vehicles know for having very low torque. Off the line the 5-spd will win because you can rev the engine to a point there is more torque, sure you can put the auto in neutral rev it then pop it into gear but the auto is also heavier and there is that human intervention to pop it in, so it will still be slower. We are talking about very low power vehicles, but when talking about high power high torque ones it's a different story the auto will win if they both have the same ratios and number of gears. Most cars that have a 5 speed manual are available in a 4-spd auto counterpart. There is why the manual will be faster, the taller gears. I many be wrong, I haven't been around cars my whole life. Also forgive me if this is a bit of a ramble, but it's a bit late. :licker: Here is a link that has some info about torque converters (sorry it's about a sentra), and another link for a place to get high performance auto upgrades.

Automatic mods (http://www.sentra.net/solm/august01/automatic.shtml)

Level 10 Performance (http://www.levelten.com/)

God.. you guys dont read your posts properly.
revolution has a perfectly valid point and you guys are arguing around his point.
Basically he's only talking about the shift speed. So if you have an automatic with one purpose such shifting to gain minimum quartermile time, it'll always shift faster than its manually operated counterpart given the same gearing. Sorry but you can always make a machine faster than the human arm.
so lets be friendly and thorough here and leave
1. the comparisons between factory manuals and automatics out
and
2. the comparison between any manual and automatic in a roadrace which requires logic beyond that of a computer or machine.

good point revolution.