Want to know what bike to start on **read this first**
speediva
07-14-2003, 01:19 AM
We've all read them a BILLION TIMES if not MORE. If you want to know the stance of the riders on this board about first bikes, READ THE THREADS!!! That's what the search engine is for. We won't make exceptions because your mom's dad's uncle's monkey's cousin once let you ride his wotijaw23590235 in the backyard. If you want to ask something SPECIFIC about a bike like "what kinds of tires are best for different kinds of riding", or "is a corbin seat really worth the money" then please ask!!! We really do like to answer *intelligent* questions. Just PLEASE try to do a little bit of research of your own either by Google (http://www.google.com) or by running a search in this forum (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=239858&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending) first.
Thanks!!!
P.S. The Search of the motorcycle forum is of "First bike". Other searches can be done for other specifics if they are so needed.
Thanks!!!
P.S. The Search of the motorcycle forum is of "First bike". Other searches can be done for other specifics if they are so needed.
R1-rider
05-08-2004, 07:09 PM
OK I am writing this because the amount of people asking for advice about starting out riding is getting out of hand. The ability to search the forum or the internet seems to not exists for some of you, if you would take your time and browse through the forum you would see us answering YOUR EXACT same question a couple times before. So I will write this one last time and ask that it get stickied so new riders in the future will be able to use it for reference instead of asking us one more time what bike to start out on.
Learning to ride a motorcycle is not very hard, however there is much more to riding than simply operating the clutch, throttle, brakes, and balancing. The more time on the bike the more suited you are for over taking obstacles that will be thrown in your way constantly. Be it cars disregarding your existence on the road, hitting or missing debris, simple no-brainer mistakes, or just about any other unpredictable event that you come across, you will need to be very comfortable on your motorcycle to come out of it on two wheels and still breathing (although sometimes making sure your heart is still beating because it skipped a couple).
When choosing a bike, do not lock in on one certain motorcycle, you often overlook the opportunity to start off right. It is a very general consensus not to start out on a sportbike, whether it is 1liter+ or even just a new 600cc supersport. Since none of you asking for help have actually had any street bike experience, you cannot grasp the concept of how insanely fast these bikes are. Even regular cruiser bikes will be able to beat sportcars in the ¼ mile. Imagine being able to beat your friends Camaro by 4 seconds, or your friends Vette by over 2. Now do this all without the stability or safety of 4 wheels and a roll cage, or wind protection. There is so much more you are exposed to on a bike, whether it is wind, weather, debris, or DAMAGE, the costs are far more costly. When you start out on such powerful motorcycles the forgiveness is non existent, in order to get through starting out on a sportbike you need to be nearly flawless in errors. So when you accidentally twist the gas too hard, or pop the clutch too early, the outcome is always worse than when you are on a tamer motorcycle.
We do not try to give you advice that would be harmful to you, we receive absolutely nothing out of us spending our time trying to help you, and the only gratification we RARELY receive is when people actually listen to us. I personally LOVE to answer any question other than “which bike…” because I do not like giving my advice to people and it being disregarded. And you may say that you are saving money instead of buying an older bike first, well think about it, you buy and old bike, then you sell the old bike. You’re out of pocket cost is very minimal, it gives you riding experience, if you drop the bike it costs MUCH MUCH MUCH less than dropping a new bike.
And every single bike is different, and you are usually very aware of this after going from one bike to the next. So don’t plan on being able to hop directly on to a newer sportbike, even after an older one, and be able to drive like Valentino Rossi. It takes time to develop an understanding of the bike that you are straddling. So while it is possible to start out on a sportbike, it will never be a good idea because of the risk you put on yourself, other people around you, and your wallet.
So in the end, if you are coming here to ask which motorcycle you should start out on, ONLY ask if you are willing to accept the fact the bike you want to start out on is probably not going to be one we recommend. And please don’t come back here after you go out and buy a new sportbike, even after we gave you recommendations about what to start on, just to be able to tell other people it is possible to start out on a sportbike, because it is not safe to start like that, and because it pisses people off wasting their time trying to help you. And then the next time you ask for help, guess what? Not going to get any from me and a couple others, and that is bad because I am very knowledgeable about motorcycles.
Learning to ride a motorcycle is not very hard, however there is much more to riding than simply operating the clutch, throttle, brakes, and balancing. The more time on the bike the more suited you are for over taking obstacles that will be thrown in your way constantly. Be it cars disregarding your existence on the road, hitting or missing debris, simple no-brainer mistakes, or just about any other unpredictable event that you come across, you will need to be very comfortable on your motorcycle to come out of it on two wheels and still breathing (although sometimes making sure your heart is still beating because it skipped a couple).
When choosing a bike, do not lock in on one certain motorcycle, you often overlook the opportunity to start off right. It is a very general consensus not to start out on a sportbike, whether it is 1liter+ or even just a new 600cc supersport. Since none of you asking for help have actually had any street bike experience, you cannot grasp the concept of how insanely fast these bikes are. Even regular cruiser bikes will be able to beat sportcars in the ¼ mile. Imagine being able to beat your friends Camaro by 4 seconds, or your friends Vette by over 2. Now do this all without the stability or safety of 4 wheels and a roll cage, or wind protection. There is so much more you are exposed to on a bike, whether it is wind, weather, debris, or DAMAGE, the costs are far more costly. When you start out on such powerful motorcycles the forgiveness is non existent, in order to get through starting out on a sportbike you need to be nearly flawless in errors. So when you accidentally twist the gas too hard, or pop the clutch too early, the outcome is always worse than when you are on a tamer motorcycle.
We do not try to give you advice that would be harmful to you, we receive absolutely nothing out of us spending our time trying to help you, and the only gratification we RARELY receive is when people actually listen to us. I personally LOVE to answer any question other than “which bike…” because I do not like giving my advice to people and it being disregarded. And you may say that you are saving money instead of buying an older bike first, well think about it, you buy and old bike, then you sell the old bike. You’re out of pocket cost is very minimal, it gives you riding experience, if you drop the bike it costs MUCH MUCH MUCH less than dropping a new bike.
And every single bike is different, and you are usually very aware of this after going from one bike to the next. So don’t plan on being able to hop directly on to a newer sportbike, even after an older one, and be able to drive like Valentino Rossi. It takes time to develop an understanding of the bike that you are straddling. So while it is possible to start out on a sportbike, it will never be a good idea because of the risk you put on yourself, other people around you, and your wallet.
So in the end, if you are coming here to ask which motorcycle you should start out on, ONLY ask if you are willing to accept the fact the bike you want to start out on is probably not going to be one we recommend. And please don’t come back here after you go out and buy a new sportbike, even after we gave you recommendations about what to start on, just to be able to tell other people it is possible to start out on a sportbike, because it is not safe to start like that, and because it pisses people off wasting their time trying to help you. And then the next time you ask for help, guess what? Not going to get any from me and a couple others, and that is bad because I am very knowledgeable about motorcycles.
Z_Fanatic
07-17-2004, 05:38 AM
A little more additive from other experts:
__________________________________________
Getting ANY 600cc for a first bike is a bad idea that may also be an expensive form of suicide. Even worse is getting a BRAND NEW 600cc bike. Here are a few reasons why.
1. Knowledge of Subject Matter
Right now your at the most basic beginners period, the very start of the learning curve (i.e. you aren’t even aware of what is that you don't know). A personal example of this is when I started taking Shotokan Karate. On the first day of class I didn’t even know what “inside-block” was, let alone how to do it with correct form. After I learned a bit, then I could start to realize how bad my form was and begin the process of improving it. I had to become AWARE that inside-blocks even existed before I could realize that I couldn’t do them correctly. This is to say that it takes knowledge OF something to be able to understand how something works, functions, performs, etc. Having NO motorcycle experience, you’re not even aware of the power, mistakes, handling, shifting, turning dynamics etc. of any bike, let alone a sport bike. In the process of moving through the learning curve you begin to amass all this new information…you also make a ton of mistakes.
2. The Learning Curve
When you’re learning to do something, you make mistakes. Without them the learning process is impossible. Making mistakes on a sport bike can be fatal. The thing newbies need to learn above anything else is smooth throttle control and proper speed & lean going into turns. On a 600cc bike, a mistake with throttle control or a turn can cost you your life before even knew what happened. A bike that is less forgiving of mistakes (ninja ex 250, 500, or an OLDER 600cc bike) is far safer to learn on.
Ask yourself this question; in which manner would you rather learn to walk on tightropes A) with a 4x4 board that is 2 feet off the ground B) with a wire that is 20 feet off the ground? Most sensible people would choose “A”. The reason why is obvious. Unfortunally safety concerns with a first motorcycle aren’t as apparent as they are in the example above. However, the wrong choice of what equipment to learn on can be just as deadly…regardless of how safe, careful, and level-headed you are.
3. I’ll be Safe, Responsible, And Level-Headed While Learning".
Sorry, but that excuse doesn’t cut it. To be safe you also need SKILL (throttle control, speed, leaning, etc). Skill comes ONLY with experience. To gain that experience you must ride your bike in real traffic, with real cars, and real dangers. Before skills are developed which can foster safe riding, you need a bike that can mirror the level of safety that you’re currently at, not a cutting edge race bike that will throw you off the first chance it has.
Imagine someone saying, "I want to learn to juggle, but I’m going to start by learning with chainsaws. But don’t worry, I’ll go slow, be careful, and stay level-headed while I’m learning". Like the tightrope example above, the answer here is isn’t hard to see. Be careful all you want, go as slow as you want, be as cautious as you want…your still juggling chainsaws! Without a foundation in place of HOW to juggle there is only a small level of safety you can aspire towards. As such, it’s better to learn the skills of juggling with tennis balls first. The same holds true for learning to ride a motorcycle.
4. I Don’t Want A Bike I’ll Outgrow'
Please. Did your Momma put you in size 9 shoes at age 2? Get with the program.
5. Cost (“I don’t want to waste money on a bike I’ll only have for a short period of time”)
Smaller bikes have good resale value, because other (smart) people will want them as learner bikes. You’ll prolly be able to sell a used learner bike for as much as you paid for it.
If you drop your brand new bike that is fresh off the showroom floor while your learning (and you will), you've just broken a directional, perhaps a brake / clutch lever, cracked / scrapped the fairings ($300.00 each to replace), fucked up the bar ends, etc. It's better and cheaper to drop a shit bike that you don’t care about than one you just spent 8k on. Most newbies drop bikes going under 20MPH, when the bike is at its most unstable periods. They often only don’t result in physical injury, just a big dent in your pride and….
6. EGO
Worried about looking like tool on a smaller bike? Well, you'll look even more like a tool with a brand new, but fucked-up, 2004 bike (or a new bike that you can’t get out 1st gear without stalling 15 times). Any real rider would give you props for going about learning to ride the *correct* way (i.e. on a learner bike). If you’re stressed about impressing someone with a “cool” bike, or embarrassed about being on small bike then your not mature enough to handle the responsibility of a motorcycle. Try a moped. After you've grown up revisit the idea of a motorcycle.
6. "Don’t ask advice if you don't want to hear the answers".
A common pattern:
1) Person X asks for advice on a 1st bike (wanting to hear certain answers)
2) Experienced rider’s advice against a 600cc bike for a first ride (this isn’t what Person X wanted to hear).
3) Person X thinks, "Others fuck up while learning, but that wont happen to me" (as if they are invincible, hold superpowers, have a ‘level head’, etc).
4) Experienced riders explain why a ‘level head’ isn’t enough.
5) Person X makes up excuses as to why veterans riders “don’t understand why I’d be able to handle a 600cc bike whole others can’t”.
6) Person X as a total newbie, who couldn't even tell you what a shift pattern is, by some grace of God now understands what the best bike to buy is and totally disregards all the advice he asked for in the first place (which brings us right back to the very first point I made about knowledge).
I’m not trying to be harsh, I’m being real. Look all over the net. You’ll see person after person after person telling newbies NOT to get a 600cc bike. Why? Because we hate them? Because we don't want others to have cool bikes? No way. The more riders the better (assuming there not squids)! The reason people like me and countless others spend so much time writing huge rants on this subject is because we actually care about you. We don't want to see people get hurt. We don't want to see more people die in senseless accidents that could have been avoided with a little logic and patients. We WANT you to be around to ride that 600cc bike you desire so badly. However, we just want you to be able to ride it in a safe manner that isn’t going to be a threat to yourself or others. I hope this was of some help, and feel free to email me with any questions.
Speaking of help, this is a great time to plug the MSF (Motorcycle Safety Foundation) course. The MSF course is a GREAT learning opportunity for new riders. The courses are offered all over the USA. I listed a link for their web page at the bottom of this post (or do a Goggle search and check you local RMV web page.). The MSF course assumes no prior knowledge of motorcycles and teaches the basics of how to ride a bike with out killing yourself (and NO, just because you passed the MSF course dose not mean your ready for an R6, GSX, CBR, etc). They provide motorcycles and helmets for the course. It is by far THE BEST way to start a motorcycle career that I hope will last you lifetime. Again I hope this information helped, and feel free to email me with any questions.
-chr|s sedition
Boston, MA
sedition@pipeline.com
www.msf-usa.org
__________________________________________
Getting ANY 600cc for a first bike is a bad idea that may also be an expensive form of suicide. Even worse is getting a BRAND NEW 600cc bike. Here are a few reasons why.
1. Knowledge of Subject Matter
Right now your at the most basic beginners period, the very start of the learning curve (i.e. you aren’t even aware of what is that you don't know). A personal example of this is when I started taking Shotokan Karate. On the first day of class I didn’t even know what “inside-block” was, let alone how to do it with correct form. After I learned a bit, then I could start to realize how bad my form was and begin the process of improving it. I had to become AWARE that inside-blocks even existed before I could realize that I couldn’t do them correctly. This is to say that it takes knowledge OF something to be able to understand how something works, functions, performs, etc. Having NO motorcycle experience, you’re not even aware of the power, mistakes, handling, shifting, turning dynamics etc. of any bike, let alone a sport bike. In the process of moving through the learning curve you begin to amass all this new information…you also make a ton of mistakes.
2. The Learning Curve
When you’re learning to do something, you make mistakes. Without them the learning process is impossible. Making mistakes on a sport bike can be fatal. The thing newbies need to learn above anything else is smooth throttle control and proper speed & lean going into turns. On a 600cc bike, a mistake with throttle control or a turn can cost you your life before even knew what happened. A bike that is less forgiving of mistakes (ninja ex 250, 500, or an OLDER 600cc bike) is far safer to learn on.
Ask yourself this question; in which manner would you rather learn to walk on tightropes A) with a 4x4 board that is 2 feet off the ground B) with a wire that is 20 feet off the ground? Most sensible people would choose “A”. The reason why is obvious. Unfortunally safety concerns with a first motorcycle aren’t as apparent as they are in the example above. However, the wrong choice of what equipment to learn on can be just as deadly…regardless of how safe, careful, and level-headed you are.
3. I’ll be Safe, Responsible, And Level-Headed While Learning".
Sorry, but that excuse doesn’t cut it. To be safe you also need SKILL (throttle control, speed, leaning, etc). Skill comes ONLY with experience. To gain that experience you must ride your bike in real traffic, with real cars, and real dangers. Before skills are developed which can foster safe riding, you need a bike that can mirror the level of safety that you’re currently at, not a cutting edge race bike that will throw you off the first chance it has.
Imagine someone saying, "I want to learn to juggle, but I’m going to start by learning with chainsaws. But don’t worry, I’ll go slow, be careful, and stay level-headed while I’m learning". Like the tightrope example above, the answer here is isn’t hard to see. Be careful all you want, go as slow as you want, be as cautious as you want…your still juggling chainsaws! Without a foundation in place of HOW to juggle there is only a small level of safety you can aspire towards. As such, it’s better to learn the skills of juggling with tennis balls first. The same holds true for learning to ride a motorcycle.
4. I Don’t Want A Bike I’ll Outgrow'
Please. Did your Momma put you in size 9 shoes at age 2? Get with the program.
5. Cost (“I don’t want to waste money on a bike I’ll only have for a short period of time”)
Smaller bikes have good resale value, because other (smart) people will want them as learner bikes. You’ll prolly be able to sell a used learner bike for as much as you paid for it.
If you drop your brand new bike that is fresh off the showroom floor while your learning (and you will), you've just broken a directional, perhaps a brake / clutch lever, cracked / scrapped the fairings ($300.00 each to replace), fucked up the bar ends, etc. It's better and cheaper to drop a shit bike that you don’t care about than one you just spent 8k on. Most newbies drop bikes going under 20MPH, when the bike is at its most unstable periods. They often only don’t result in physical injury, just a big dent in your pride and….
6. EGO
Worried about looking like tool on a smaller bike? Well, you'll look even more like a tool with a brand new, but fucked-up, 2004 bike (or a new bike that you can’t get out 1st gear without stalling 15 times). Any real rider would give you props for going about learning to ride the *correct* way (i.e. on a learner bike). If you’re stressed about impressing someone with a “cool” bike, or embarrassed about being on small bike then your not mature enough to handle the responsibility of a motorcycle. Try a moped. After you've grown up revisit the idea of a motorcycle.
6. "Don’t ask advice if you don't want to hear the answers".
A common pattern:
1) Person X asks for advice on a 1st bike (wanting to hear certain answers)
2) Experienced rider’s advice against a 600cc bike for a first ride (this isn’t what Person X wanted to hear).
3) Person X thinks, "Others fuck up while learning, but that wont happen to me" (as if they are invincible, hold superpowers, have a ‘level head’, etc).
4) Experienced riders explain why a ‘level head’ isn’t enough.
5) Person X makes up excuses as to why veterans riders “don’t understand why I’d be able to handle a 600cc bike whole others can’t”.
6) Person X as a total newbie, who couldn't even tell you what a shift pattern is, by some grace of God now understands what the best bike to buy is and totally disregards all the advice he asked for in the first place (which brings us right back to the very first point I made about knowledge).
I’m not trying to be harsh, I’m being real. Look all over the net. You’ll see person after person after person telling newbies NOT to get a 600cc bike. Why? Because we hate them? Because we don't want others to have cool bikes? No way. The more riders the better (assuming there not squids)! The reason people like me and countless others spend so much time writing huge rants on this subject is because we actually care about you. We don't want to see people get hurt. We don't want to see more people die in senseless accidents that could have been avoided with a little logic and patients. We WANT you to be around to ride that 600cc bike you desire so badly. However, we just want you to be able to ride it in a safe manner that isn’t going to be a threat to yourself or others. I hope this was of some help, and feel free to email me with any questions.
Speaking of help, this is a great time to plug the MSF (Motorcycle Safety Foundation) course. The MSF course is a GREAT learning opportunity for new riders. The courses are offered all over the USA. I listed a link for their web page at the bottom of this post (or do a Goggle search and check you local RMV web page.). The MSF course assumes no prior knowledge of motorcycles and teaches the basics of how to ride a bike with out killing yourself (and NO, just because you passed the MSF course dose not mean your ready for an R6, GSX, CBR, etc). They provide motorcycles and helmets for the course. It is by far THE BEST way to start a motorcycle career that I hope will last you lifetime. Again I hope this information helped, and feel free to email me with any questions.
-chr|s sedition
Boston, MA
sedition@pipeline.com
www.msf-usa.org
cmoubell
07-19-2004, 09:31 AM
-an early 90's honda interceptor.
-a cbf600 (lots ppl i know seem to do good on them)
-kawasaki's smallest ninja, the 500 is pretty decent too.
-a cbf600 (lots ppl i know seem to do good on them)
-kawasaki's smallest ninja, the 500 is pretty decent too.
Z_Fanatic
08-12-2004, 05:05 PM
The key here is to sit on these bikes, determine how well it fits your body and posture, and take it for a test-drive.
So generally it's been adviced to try any one of these to start on:
1. Kawasaki Ninja 250/500
2. Suzuki SV650/SV650S
3. Honda VTR 250
4. Suzuki Katana 600
5. Suzuki GS500F
6. Early 90s F2/F3
7. Others...
Number 1 being the safest to learn on, but people have reservations against it. Since it looks it came straight out of the 80s, and it might not be comfortable for people of certain stature.
Number 2 is probably a lot more popular, generally appeals to the wider crowd. Good looks, naked (means if you drop it, you won't have any fairings to replace). And with the given power, it satisfies the rider for quite some time before moving onto inline 4s. Still have to be careful of the low-end power when you roll the throttle. The '03 of this bike is the best bet out of all the bikes listed IMO, since it comes with fuel injection (no carbs cleaning, hehe), and a neat looking digital speedo.
3. This is also a decent bike, after all, it's Honda. But much rarer to find one for sale, most are usually '89 or prior to 90s.
4. It's an inline 4, comfortable ride like a tourer. But a bit on the heavy side.
5. More or less the same as number 1. But people find number 1 bikes a bit more flickable, less heavy, more power, and more popular.
6. This is for all the people who want inline 4 600 power straight out of the box. The earlier 600s don't have nearly as much powers as today's do, but you can still mess up on it faster compared to the ones above. Basically, gently roll the throttle everytime during first several months of learning stage.
7. Is all the rest... '03-04 R6, Gixxer 600, ZX-6R, CBR-6RR, people who are bit impatient and fixated with looks, go straight for the race replicas. Also bigger balls and sometimes less brain matter is required. :D
The middle-ground between 6 and 7 are bikes such as '03-04 F4i and YZF600R. Power of today's inline 4, but much lenient on the rider in case he/she screws up.
So you have to see what's compatible to your criteria: price, how well the bike suits you, availability depending on your location, condition of the bike, deals you get, etc, etc.
Also if you use the search function and type in "First Bike," it will give tons of related topics.
Rider Safety 101:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1949346&goto=1949346
So generally it's been adviced to try any one of these to start on:
1. Kawasaki Ninja 250/500
2. Suzuki SV650/SV650S
3. Honda VTR 250
4. Suzuki Katana 600
5. Suzuki GS500F
6. Early 90s F2/F3
7. Others...
Number 1 being the safest to learn on, but people have reservations against it. Since it looks it came straight out of the 80s, and it might not be comfortable for people of certain stature.
Number 2 is probably a lot more popular, generally appeals to the wider crowd. Good looks, naked (means if you drop it, you won't have any fairings to replace). And with the given power, it satisfies the rider for quite some time before moving onto inline 4s. Still have to be careful of the low-end power when you roll the throttle. The '03 of this bike is the best bet out of all the bikes listed IMO, since it comes with fuel injection (no carbs cleaning, hehe), and a neat looking digital speedo.
3. This is also a decent bike, after all, it's Honda. But much rarer to find one for sale, most are usually '89 or prior to 90s.
4. It's an inline 4, comfortable ride like a tourer. But a bit on the heavy side.
5. More or less the same as number 1. But people find number 1 bikes a bit more flickable, less heavy, more power, and more popular.
6. This is for all the people who want inline 4 600 power straight out of the box. The earlier 600s don't have nearly as much powers as today's do, but you can still mess up on it faster compared to the ones above. Basically, gently roll the throttle everytime during first several months of learning stage.
7. Is all the rest... '03-04 R6, Gixxer 600, ZX-6R, CBR-6RR, people who are bit impatient and fixated with looks, go straight for the race replicas. Also bigger balls and sometimes less brain matter is required. :D
The middle-ground between 6 and 7 are bikes such as '03-04 F4i and YZF600R. Power of today's inline 4, but much lenient on the rider in case he/she screws up.
So you have to see what's compatible to your criteria: price, how well the bike suits you, availability depending on your location, condition of the bike, deals you get, etc, etc.
Also if you use the search function and type in "First Bike," it will give tons of related topics.
Rider Safety 101:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1949346&goto=1949346
whatcha/got/racer
10-02-2004, 03:44 AM
thank you for the advice im planing on getting a bike soon. have one questons what some of people ideas when it comes to harleys. im going to look into the bikes you listed thanks again.
SamBlob
10-17-2004, 10:15 AM
A bike that is less forgiving of mistakes (ninja ex 250, 500, or an OLDER 600cc bike) is far safer to learn on.
Erm... I think you mean "a bike that is more forgiving of mistakes..."
I learned to ride on a Nighthawk 450, 'coz that was the bike the guy who taught me to ride had. The bike I eventually bought was a non-running TwinStar. I tried to fix it, failed even with a Haynes manual (I still have the manual although I sold the bike almost two years ago), and got it fixed instead. It was an emotional choice instead of a rational one and I paid for it. The experience and the rides almost made it money well spent.
I rode for over two years and enjoyed most of it. I sold the bike because repairs got too expensive, because traffic started to scare me too much, and because I really needed a car. I have a car now. I want another bike, but my wallet reminds me that you can't always get what you want.
I probably did it the wrong way around. I should have learned on a TwinStar and then got a Nighthawk 450. But circumstances are what they are.
Erm... I think you mean "a bike that is more forgiving of mistakes..."
I learned to ride on a Nighthawk 450, 'coz that was the bike the guy who taught me to ride had. The bike I eventually bought was a non-running TwinStar. I tried to fix it, failed even with a Haynes manual (I still have the manual although I sold the bike almost two years ago), and got it fixed instead. It was an emotional choice instead of a rational one and I paid for it. The experience and the rides almost made it money well spent.
I rode for over two years and enjoyed most of it. I sold the bike because repairs got too expensive, because traffic started to scare me too much, and because I really needed a car. I have a car now. I want another bike, but my wallet reminds me that you can't always get what you want.
I probably did it the wrong way around. I should have learned on a TwinStar and then got a Nighthawk 450. But circumstances are what they are.
snowplowman
12-30-2004, 12:17 AM
A friend of mine wanted to learn to ride so I thought that if she could learn to ride my quad (four wheeler) YAMAHA Warior, than I would teach her to ride on two wheels. My point is that if you have access to a four wheeler and you can learn to ride it well than half the battle is over. All the controls are the same, gas, clutch, gear shifter, front brake, and rear brake are in the same place and your on four wheels. Instinctively knowing where the five major components are is a must, then It will be much easier to learn to ride. And oh, my friend now rides her own bike and her own quad. Take it slow but consistant. Learn the basics first, I have seen people that did not and I was scared for them. Just a thought that worked.
Z_Fanatic
12-30-2004, 04:08 PM
lol, half the battle isn't over, because you could learn those same controls using a stick shift car, and it still wouldn't giving you the feedback of riding two wheels. about as close to it as you can come are dirtbikes, 250 scooters, etc.
snowplowman
12-30-2004, 05:19 PM
Well Z Fanatic, I see that we dont agree on the right way to teach a new rider, and thats ok. You teach your way and I'll teach mine. I know from practice that my way does work. And no, stick shift cars are not an alternative. I only tried to show that a quad has the same 5 fundamental controls as a bike, and it is much safer on to learn them. After riding a quad to learn the 5 basic conrols then move on to a small bike with the same 5 controls and then your on your way to a lifetime of safe riding.
Z_Fanatic
12-30-2004, 10:50 PM
I don't mean to argue against your methods, but you missed the point there. Learning to drive a manual isn't an alternative method to learning how to ride a motorbike, but it's about as effective as the theory that learning how to control a manual ATV would ensure success on learning how to ride a bike. It's the experience on two wheels, balance, steering and counter steering, thottle control, and dodging traffic that makes the different. With dirtbikes, you learn most of it except dodging traffic and harnessing incredible speed. Any idiot can eventually learn to shift and twist the thottle, it takes no brain power. And nothing you learn from before will guarantee safe riding except saddle time.
snowplowman
12-31-2004, 09:15 AM
Truce, my only point was that by learning to ride a quad first helps a NEW rider to learn where the 5 key controls are, instinctively. I have seen to many times that a new rider is overwelmed by it all, and when they need to use a control they have to think first. Which as you know relates to time and feet, reaction time. I feel that after they learn, instinctively, where the controls are then riding a bike is as easy as riding a bike. Granted, a very powerful bike, but all the same. Then secondly, I agree with you. Then they need saddle time to learn balance, speed, control, traffic, road hazards,etc. I agree that saddle time is the best way to gain proficentcy. TRUCE!!!
bwright138
01-11-2005, 12:54 PM
My "learner" bike was a '97 F3 (CBR 600) and even it being on your list of newbie compatible bikes, I don't recommend it. My F3 was immensely fast and felt just as squirrelly as any new 600. And yes I laid it down within a week and spent over $800 on fairings, etc. The only real difference between an F3 and say a Gixxer 6 or an RR is a mere 10 pounds and 12-14 horsepower. People seem to stress "newness" of a bike as the sole component of it's performance and rideability. But even a lowly 1991 ZZR600 is a sub 400 pound (190 Kilo.?) 95 horsepower bikes, which translates to 0-60 (0-100K) times well sub 4 seconds, and top speeds (gearing change required) well over 150. I think the key to a new bike is something that sits a bit more upright, which lends itself to a more controllable nature (i.e., your inner ear is your center of gravity finder, the more centered a riding position, the more stable you are). Yes I agree, an EX500 would be a fairly good starter bike, but please, have some respect for the older 4's!
Michael_B
01-30-2005, 06:21 AM
Just want to say thankyou for the very sound and practical advice.
I was about to Buy a Honda Steed 600 (because I love it )
After reading your advice and having not ridden a bike for 35 Years
I have decided to buy a secondhand Honda Phanthom 200
Everything You say makes perfect sense to me and the Steed can wait till I have more experience.
Thanks again
Michael B
I was about to Buy a Honda Steed 600 (because I love it )
After reading your advice and having not ridden a bike for 35 Years
I have decided to buy a secondhand Honda Phanthom 200
Everything You say makes perfect sense to me and the Steed can wait till I have more experience.
Thanks again
Michael B
nbracking
02-11-2005, 04:32 AM
But I've been reading a lot of the posts, in this thread as well as others. And this is my question for you. Not so much as somebody to recommend a bike to me, more of their opionion. I rode dirt bikes for yrs. Rode upto 250's at around the age of 16. Since then I've rode a few different street bikes, one of which is my cousin's 04 gsxr1000. Granted it was just around the block, but I was apply to handle it fairly well. However I agree with time on a bike, mine isn't really ready to purchase one of those, but with my experience, my cousin, as well as my uncles, have been suggesting either an R6 or gsxr600. And before I went and did that, just thought I'd get a few more opionions. Keepin in mind this won't be the first 2 wheels I've been on, racing dirt bikes for some time and a bit of street bike experience. Sorry if this isn't the right spot to post it, and I swear, I did read what you guys suggested, and now am wondering if my choices should eblven include thoses. Thanks for the help.
mootchie2103
02-22-2005, 04:18 PM
A little more additive from other experts:
__________________________________________
Getting ANY 600cc for a first bike is a bad idea that may also be an expensive form of suicide. Even worse is getting a BRAND NEW 600cc bike. Here are a few reasons why.
1. Knowledge of Subject Matter
Right now your at the most basic beginners period, the very start of the learning curve (i.e. you aren’t even aware of what is that you don't know). A personal example of this is when I started taking Shotokan Karate. On the first day of class I didn’t even know what “inside-block” was, let alone how to do it with correct form. After I learned a bit, then I could start to realize how bad my form was and begin the process of improving it. I had to become AWARE that inside-blocks even existed before I could realize that I couldn’t do them correctly. This is to say that it takes knowledge OF something to be able to understand how something works, functions, performs, etc. Having NO motorcycle experience, you’re not even aware of the power, mistakes, handling, shifting, turning dynamics etc. of any bike, let alone a sport bike. In the process of moving through the learning curve you begin to amass all this new information…you also make a ton of mistakes.
2. The Learning Curve
When you’re learning to do something, you make mistakes. Without them the learning process is impossible. Making mistakes on a sport bike can be fatal. The thing newbies need to learn above anything else is smooth throttle control and proper speed & lean going into turns. On a 600cc bike, a mistake with throttle control or a turn can cost you your life before even knew what happened. A bike that is less forgiving of mistakes (ninja ex 250, 500, or an OLDER 600cc bike) is far safer to learn on.
Ask yourself this question; in which manner would you rather learn to walk on tightropes A) with a 4x4 board that is 2 feet off the ground B) with a wire that is 20 feet off the ground? Most sensible people would choose “A”. The reason why is obvious. Unfortunally safety concerns with a first motorcycle aren’t as apparent as they are in the example above. However, the wrong choice of what equipment to learn on can be just as deadly…regardless of how safe, careful, and level-headed you are.
3. I’ll be Safe, Responsible, And Level-Headed While Learning".
Sorry, but that excuse doesn’t cut it. To be safe you also need SKILL (throttle control, speed, leaning, etc). Skill comes ONLY with experience. To gain that experience you must ride your bike in real traffic, with real cars, and real dangers. Before skills are developed which can foster safe riding, you need a bike that can mirror the level of safety that you’re currently at, not a cutting edge race bike that will throw you off the first chance it has.
Imagine someone saying, "I want to learn to juggle, but I’m going to start by learning with chainsaws. But don’t worry, I’ll go slow, be careful, and stay level-headed while I’m learning". Like the tightrope example above, the answer here is isn’t hard to see. Be careful all you want, go as slow as you want, be as cautious as you want…your still juggling chainsaws! Without a foundation in place of HOW to juggle there is only a small level of safety you can aspire towards. As such, it’s better to learn the skills of juggling with tennis balls first. The same holds true for learning to ride a motorcycle.
4. I Don’t Want A Bike I’ll Outgrow'
Please. Did your Momma put you in size 9 shoes at age 2? Get with the program.
5. Cost (“I don’t want to waste money on a bike I’ll only have for a short period of time”)
Smaller bikes have good resale value, because other (smart) people will want them as learner bikes. You’ll prolly be able to sell a used learner bike for as much as you paid for it.
If you drop your brand new bike that is fresh off the showroom floor while your learning (and you will), you've just broken a directional, perhaps a brake / clutch lever, cracked / scrapped the fairings ($300.00 each to replace), fucked up the bar ends, etc. It's better and cheaper to drop a shit bike that you don’t care about than one you just spent 8k on. Most newbies drop bikes going under 20MPH, when the bike is at its most unstable periods. They often only don’t result in physical injury, just a big dent in your pride and….
6. EGO
Worried about looking like tool on a smaller bike? Well, you'll look even more like a tool with a brand new, but fucked-up, 2004 bike (or a new bike that you can’t get out 1st gear without stalling 15 times). Any real rider would give you props for going about learning to ride the *correct* way (i.e. on a learner bike). If you’re stressed about impressing someone with a “cool” bike, or embarrassed about being on small bike then your not mature enough to handle the responsibility of a motorcycle. Try a moped. After you've grown up revisit the idea of a motorcycle.
6. "Don’t ask advice if you don't want to hear the answers".
A common pattern:
1) Person X asks for advice on a 1st bike (wanting to hear certain answers)
2) Experienced rider’s advice against a 600cc bike for a first ride (this isn’t what Person X wanted to hear).
3) Person X thinks, "Others fuck up while learning, but that wont happen to me" (as if they are invincible, hold superpowers, have a ‘level head’, etc).
4) Experienced riders explain why a ‘level head’ isn’t enough.
5) Person X makes up excuses as to why veterans riders “don’t understand why I’d be able to handle a 600cc bike whole others can’t”.
6) Person X as a total newbie, who couldn't even tell you what a shift pattern is, by some grace of God now understands what the best bike to buy is and totally disregards all the advice he asked for in the first place (which brings us right back to the very first point I made about knowledge).
I’m not trying to be harsh, I’m being real. Look all over the net. You’ll see person after person after person telling newbies NOT to get a 600cc bike. Why? Because we hate them? Because we don't want others to have cool bikes? No way. The more riders the better (assuming there not squids)! The reason people like me and countless others spend so much time writing huge rants on this subject is because we actually care about you. We don't want to see people get hurt. We don't want to see more people die in senseless accidents that could have been avoided with a little logic and patients. We WANT you to be around to ride that 600cc bike you desire so badly. However, we just want you to be able to ride it in a safe manner that isn’t going to be a threat to yourself or others. I hope this was of some help, and feel free to email me with any questions.
Speaking of help, this is a great time to plug the MSF (Motorcycle Safety Foundation) course. The MSF course is a GREAT learning opportunity for new riders. The courses are offered all over the USA. I listed a link for their web page at the bottom of this post (or do a Goggle search and check you local RMV web page.). The MSF course assumes no prior knowledge of motorcycles and teaches the basics of how to ride a bike with out killing yourself (and NO, just because you passed the MSF course dose not mean your ready for an R6, GSX, CBR, etc). They provide motorcycles and helmets for the course. It is by far THE BEST way to start a motorcycle career that I hope will last you lifetime. Again I hope this information helped, and feel free to email me with any questions.
-chr|s sedition
Boston, MA
sedition@pipeline.com
www.msf-usa.org
You seem to know alot! Anyways...what bike would you recommend for a girl....5'2'', 105 lbs. to start out on? I was told that I could get a 600, just lower the back a little and lower the sprocket. What do you think? Thank you!
__________________________________________
Getting ANY 600cc for a first bike is a bad idea that may also be an expensive form of suicide. Even worse is getting a BRAND NEW 600cc bike. Here are a few reasons why.
1. Knowledge of Subject Matter
Right now your at the most basic beginners period, the very start of the learning curve (i.e. you aren’t even aware of what is that you don't know). A personal example of this is when I started taking Shotokan Karate. On the first day of class I didn’t even know what “inside-block” was, let alone how to do it with correct form. After I learned a bit, then I could start to realize how bad my form was and begin the process of improving it. I had to become AWARE that inside-blocks even existed before I could realize that I couldn’t do them correctly. This is to say that it takes knowledge OF something to be able to understand how something works, functions, performs, etc. Having NO motorcycle experience, you’re not even aware of the power, mistakes, handling, shifting, turning dynamics etc. of any bike, let alone a sport bike. In the process of moving through the learning curve you begin to amass all this new information…you also make a ton of mistakes.
2. The Learning Curve
When you’re learning to do something, you make mistakes. Without them the learning process is impossible. Making mistakes on a sport bike can be fatal. The thing newbies need to learn above anything else is smooth throttle control and proper speed & lean going into turns. On a 600cc bike, a mistake with throttle control or a turn can cost you your life before even knew what happened. A bike that is less forgiving of mistakes (ninja ex 250, 500, or an OLDER 600cc bike) is far safer to learn on.
Ask yourself this question; in which manner would you rather learn to walk on tightropes A) with a 4x4 board that is 2 feet off the ground B) with a wire that is 20 feet off the ground? Most sensible people would choose “A”. The reason why is obvious. Unfortunally safety concerns with a first motorcycle aren’t as apparent as they are in the example above. However, the wrong choice of what equipment to learn on can be just as deadly…regardless of how safe, careful, and level-headed you are.
3. I’ll be Safe, Responsible, And Level-Headed While Learning".
Sorry, but that excuse doesn’t cut it. To be safe you also need SKILL (throttle control, speed, leaning, etc). Skill comes ONLY with experience. To gain that experience you must ride your bike in real traffic, with real cars, and real dangers. Before skills are developed which can foster safe riding, you need a bike that can mirror the level of safety that you’re currently at, not a cutting edge race bike that will throw you off the first chance it has.
Imagine someone saying, "I want to learn to juggle, but I’m going to start by learning with chainsaws. But don’t worry, I’ll go slow, be careful, and stay level-headed while I’m learning". Like the tightrope example above, the answer here is isn’t hard to see. Be careful all you want, go as slow as you want, be as cautious as you want…your still juggling chainsaws! Without a foundation in place of HOW to juggle there is only a small level of safety you can aspire towards. As such, it’s better to learn the skills of juggling with tennis balls first. The same holds true for learning to ride a motorcycle.
4. I Don’t Want A Bike I’ll Outgrow'
Please. Did your Momma put you in size 9 shoes at age 2? Get with the program.
5. Cost (“I don’t want to waste money on a bike I’ll only have for a short period of time”)
Smaller bikes have good resale value, because other (smart) people will want them as learner bikes. You’ll prolly be able to sell a used learner bike for as much as you paid for it.
If you drop your brand new bike that is fresh off the showroom floor while your learning (and you will), you've just broken a directional, perhaps a brake / clutch lever, cracked / scrapped the fairings ($300.00 each to replace), fucked up the bar ends, etc. It's better and cheaper to drop a shit bike that you don’t care about than one you just spent 8k on. Most newbies drop bikes going under 20MPH, when the bike is at its most unstable periods. They often only don’t result in physical injury, just a big dent in your pride and….
6. EGO
Worried about looking like tool on a smaller bike? Well, you'll look even more like a tool with a brand new, but fucked-up, 2004 bike (or a new bike that you can’t get out 1st gear without stalling 15 times). Any real rider would give you props for going about learning to ride the *correct* way (i.e. on a learner bike). If you’re stressed about impressing someone with a “cool” bike, or embarrassed about being on small bike then your not mature enough to handle the responsibility of a motorcycle. Try a moped. After you've grown up revisit the idea of a motorcycle.
6. "Don’t ask advice if you don't want to hear the answers".
A common pattern:
1) Person X asks for advice on a 1st bike (wanting to hear certain answers)
2) Experienced rider’s advice against a 600cc bike for a first ride (this isn’t what Person X wanted to hear).
3) Person X thinks, "Others fuck up while learning, but that wont happen to me" (as if they are invincible, hold superpowers, have a ‘level head’, etc).
4) Experienced riders explain why a ‘level head’ isn’t enough.
5) Person X makes up excuses as to why veterans riders “don’t understand why I’d be able to handle a 600cc bike whole others can’t”.
6) Person X as a total newbie, who couldn't even tell you what a shift pattern is, by some grace of God now understands what the best bike to buy is and totally disregards all the advice he asked for in the first place (which brings us right back to the very first point I made about knowledge).
I’m not trying to be harsh, I’m being real. Look all over the net. You’ll see person after person after person telling newbies NOT to get a 600cc bike. Why? Because we hate them? Because we don't want others to have cool bikes? No way. The more riders the better (assuming there not squids)! The reason people like me and countless others spend so much time writing huge rants on this subject is because we actually care about you. We don't want to see people get hurt. We don't want to see more people die in senseless accidents that could have been avoided with a little logic and patients. We WANT you to be around to ride that 600cc bike you desire so badly. However, we just want you to be able to ride it in a safe manner that isn’t going to be a threat to yourself or others. I hope this was of some help, and feel free to email me with any questions.
Speaking of help, this is a great time to plug the MSF (Motorcycle Safety Foundation) course. The MSF course is a GREAT learning opportunity for new riders. The courses are offered all over the USA. I listed a link for their web page at the bottom of this post (or do a Goggle search and check you local RMV web page.). The MSF course assumes no prior knowledge of motorcycles and teaches the basics of how to ride a bike with out killing yourself (and NO, just because you passed the MSF course dose not mean your ready for an R6, GSX, CBR, etc). They provide motorcycles and helmets for the course. It is by far THE BEST way to start a motorcycle career that I hope will last you lifetime. Again I hope this information helped, and feel free to email me with any questions.
-chr|s sedition
Boston, MA
sedition@pipeline.com
www.msf-usa.org
You seem to know alot! Anyways...what bike would you recommend for a girl....5'2'', 105 lbs. to start out on? I was told that I could get a 600, just lower the back a little and lower the sprocket. What do you think? Thank you!
jake01
04-05-2005, 10:57 AM
i understand were yall are comming from about the aggravation, same questions over n over, but i have read what yall have to say. i first started riding when i was 12,(81 xr80, then moved up to a (02 xr100,
then a pit bike 02 xr50, i was dying to race so i got a 91 kx 125, it broke down so i got my last bike it was a 01 cr125 all aftermarket i loved it to death the best bike i have ever had, i raced a lil bit, and i was running out of saved money. no support from parents, they didnt like the idea of motocross. so i had to sell my baby.
so i moved on and did something i could afford cross country mtbiking. yea yea i dont wanna hear it! i got a job now and saving all my money for a street bike. im depressed over bikes b/c its been soo long. i rode on the back of my friends ninga 600 and loved it. a few of my friends are saving and want the gsx750's. poor ppl they have no 2 wheel experience. my mind is set on a crotch rocket lol. i will take classes from harley, and i know motocross and street are totally different riding styles but i want yalls opinion. can !I! get a used 600-750cc bike. we dont live in a big city so i could get the feel of things around town for a while.
then a pit bike 02 xr50, i was dying to race so i got a 91 kx 125, it broke down so i got my last bike it was a 01 cr125 all aftermarket i loved it to death the best bike i have ever had, i raced a lil bit, and i was running out of saved money. no support from parents, they didnt like the idea of motocross. so i had to sell my baby.
so i moved on and did something i could afford cross country mtbiking. yea yea i dont wanna hear it! i got a job now and saving all my money for a street bike. im depressed over bikes b/c its been soo long. i rode on the back of my friends ninga 600 and loved it. a few of my friends are saving and want the gsx750's. poor ppl they have no 2 wheel experience. my mind is set on a crotch rocket lol. i will take classes from harley, and i know motocross and street are totally different riding styles but i want yalls opinion. can !I! get a used 600-750cc bike. we dont live in a big city so i could get the feel of things around town for a while.
Z_Fanatic
04-05-2005, 11:24 AM
Get a early F2 or F3, they're 600s, but will keep you out of trouble during learning stage.
007COUPE
05-11-2005, 03:05 AM
I want to thank everyone for the advice. Im kind of a bigger guy who saw a 5ft 5 inch chick on a gsxr750 yesterday and was like DAMN I can do that, but you guys made me realize that She was probably riding since the age of 5.... Now I wont make that fatal mistake......Greatly Appreciate it!!!!
speediva
05-25-2005, 11:00 AM
I want to thank everyone for the advice. Im kind of a bigger guy who saw a 5ft 5 inch chick on a gsxr750 yesterday and was like DAMN I can do that, but you guys made me realize that She was probably riding since the age of 5.... Now I wont make that fatal mistake......Greatly Appreciate it!!!!
That, or she's a MORON like a girl I know who went from a 250 that was too big for her to a brand-new 750 that is WAY too big for her. Some people are beyond advice, and won't learn from the mistakes of others. Thank YOU for listening!
That, or she's a MORON like a girl I know who went from a 250 that was too big for her to a brand-new 750 that is WAY too big for her. Some people are beyond advice, and won't learn from the mistakes of others. Thank YOU for listening!
speediva
05-25-2005, 11:01 AM
You seem to know alot! Anyways...what bike would you recommend for a girl....5'2'', 105 lbs. to start out on? I was told that I could get a 600, just lower the back a little and lower the sprocket. What do you think? Thank you!
Start on a 250. It is MUCH more forgiving, and it will be more comfortable since there won't be much need for lowering anything. You ALWAYS feel more comfortable when you are more in control of things, like keeping the bike upright. ;)
Start on a 250. It is MUCH more forgiving, and it will be more comfortable since there won't be much need for lowering anything. You ALWAYS feel more comfortable when you are more in control of things, like keeping the bike upright. ;)
fujita
07-23-2005, 08:25 PM
Sorry for posting a a pretty dead thread, but I didnt want to start a new topic because its pretty related. From what I read, the Kawasaki Ninja 250r is pretty scrunched for tall riders. Im new and was looking at a 1992 250r for my first bike, but am worried that it might be too small. Im 5'11"-6' and was wondering if it was a bit too small for me .(The bike, not the displacement.) Thanks a lot!:)
DealsGap
10-05-2005, 08:40 AM
I don't know why an SV650 hasn't been mentioned in this thread (unless I missed it...). It's a damn near perfect motorcycle for most types of riders. It's something you'll never outgrow, is very forgiving in nature for a first timer, comfortable, a twin, and makes a damn good club racer, too!
aussieidiot
06-24-2006, 04:46 PM
deals, the sv was mentioned by Z (how could he not, he's biased anyway)
one thing to keep in mind for all newbies is the power versus skill.
just because you can ride a 600 doesn't mean you can ride well.
go for some track days and you get a good idea of how many better riders there are than you. I ride a 954 and have been "beaten" by smaller bikes all the time. these guys (ands girls too) have bikes that are perfectly suited to them.
i've had an old 400 go around me on the outside while i'm scraping the deck. the other guy was smaller than me and had is bike on full throttle were i couldn't go full throttle.
so having a big bike may be "cool" and make you feel good but if you can't ride it to at least 75% of its potential, why have it. you'd have much more fun on a bike you can ride well.
in reality, a 600 is the most power ANYONE could ever need (except for idiots like me). so why jump straight into it?
here's one of Z's links that should be in this thread
http://www.sportrider.com/ride/
one thing to keep in mind for all newbies is the power versus skill.
just because you can ride a 600 doesn't mean you can ride well.
go for some track days and you get a good idea of how many better riders there are than you. I ride a 954 and have been "beaten" by smaller bikes all the time. these guys (ands girls too) have bikes that are perfectly suited to them.
i've had an old 400 go around me on the outside while i'm scraping the deck. the other guy was smaller than me and had is bike on full throttle were i couldn't go full throttle.
so having a big bike may be "cool" and make you feel good but if you can't ride it to at least 75% of its potential, why have it. you'd have much more fun on a bike you can ride well.
in reality, a 600 is the most power ANYONE could ever need (except for idiots like me). so why jump straight into it?
here's one of Z's links that should be in this thread
http://www.sportrider.com/ride/
RM|ZX:Dudz
02-17-2007, 01:27 PM
Saturntangerine... you need to loosen up... and stop abusing ur power... one word was wrong... who closes a forum because they used a made up word? Jeez... It would have been interesting to hear about a few motorbike accidents... everyone could've learnt from it... that could mean you've murdered one of us today... denied them valuable knowledge... I am asking that u re-evaluate your decision. If you want I'll change the description.
beach 88
02-28-2007, 03:47 PM
i didnt want to post asking what bike i should get because i know it annoys people, i know i shouldnt get something too big, but is there anything you would suggest for a girl in particular? im 5'7 and i weigh like 140...and thank you so much for posting this. it really was incredibly helpful.
fastcar_racer
05-18-2007, 12:05 AM
I'm not a classy rider but I'm looking for a good motorcycle to buy?
_____________________
Kitchie
Download free Canon service manuals (http://www.manualshark.org/b/canon-3/)
_____________________
Kitchie
Download free Canon service manuals (http://www.manualshark.org/b/canon-3/)
fastcar_racer
05-25-2007, 03:31 AM
I'm not a classy rider but I'm looking for a good motorcycle to buy?
________________________
Abigail
Toyota Aurion 2007 by Cannon Toyota Australia (http://www.who-sells-it.com/cy/cannon-toyota-australia-2085/toyota-aurion-2007-9730.html)
________________________
Abigail
Toyota Aurion 2007 by Cannon Toyota Australia (http://www.who-sells-it.com/cy/cannon-toyota-australia-2085/toyota-aurion-2007-9730.html)
busafreek07
06-14-2007, 12:37 AM
isay doo what u want go get a bussa 600 are slow ant easy to get use to get something hat wont get boaring a bike will only go as fast as u make it so just get what ever bike is best for u
psych0hans
07-12-2007, 01:20 PM
Hey guys, I really liked all your posts and advice. I was also of the belife that buying a big bike would be the best and that i would be "careful" But after reading all your posts I changed my mind.
My question is, do the rules apply to cruisers as well? i.e would buying a 600cc cruiser be as risky a buying an R6 or Ninja,etc... And what are your views on 400cc bikes? Like the honda VFR400
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VFR400-NC30-Mint-Repsol-Honda_W0QQitemZ130132593467QQihZ003QQcategoryZ9806 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Thanks in advance :D
My question is, do the rules apply to cruisers as well? i.e would buying a 600cc cruiser be as risky a buying an R6 or Ninja,etc... And what are your views on 400cc bikes? Like the honda VFR400
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VFR400-NC30-Mint-Repsol-Honda_W0QQitemZ130132593467QQihZ003QQcategoryZ9806 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Thanks in advance :D
NinjaZX6R
07-12-2007, 07:44 PM
Start on a 250. It is MUCH more forgiving, and it will be more comfortable since there won't be much need for lowering anything. You ALWAYS feel more comfortable when you are more in control of things, like keeping the bike upright.
I was thinking of starting out with a kawasaki ninja 650r. Is that good to start with.
I was thinking of starting out with a kawasaki ninja 650r. Is that good to start with.
speediva
07-12-2007, 09:57 PM
I was thinking of starting out with a kawasaki ninja 650r. Is that good to start with.
The Ninja 650R is manageable as a starter bike, but I'd still recommend starting on a Ninja 250 or Ninja 500 (or any other 250/500) before that.
The Ninja 650R is manageable as a starter bike, but I'd still recommend starting on a Ninja 250 or Ninja 500 (or any other 250/500) before that.
AWP9521
08-04-2007, 03:08 AM
I have to agree with all the advice given about starting small when learning to ride the first time. My starter bike was a 73 Honda CB400F Super Sport (inline 4) it was relatively small for my big size but still fairly light and actually quite nimble in the handling department. Had decent power but was not considered a "fast" bike especially by todays standards.
I did a lot of rural ares at first during the get aquainted stage then slowly worked my way into playing in heavier traffic in the city and on the interstates, definitely had a few close calls that got the heart fluttering but was able to stay cool enough to get out of the situation unscathed.
I rode with a friend alot and make it a point to ride it as much as possible in all weather conditions (except snow of course), I had the wife worried quite a few times when running out the door and jumping on it when an impending storm was coming. But I wanted to learn that, I wanted to learn what would happen when you hit standing water or had to slow down or stop in a hurry without trying to slide the tires, riding doesn't necessarily mean good weather all the time, I felt I had to be prepared for situations like that and you don't learn until you do it.
Then of course there is the differing road conditions too, dirt, mud, tar and chip, milled asphalt, etc. You got to experience all that during the learning curve, feel what the bike does when running on those types of roads, the seat of your pants feel when the front and back end don't seem to be taking the same path can be scary at any speed, it's learning how to handle all of that and still live to tell about it is the name of the game, "easy does it" can be so true when learning to ride.
I rode that little 400 for 4 years worth of learning then moved on to a 83 Honda VF750S (V45 Sabre) and i'll tell ya, that is a world of difference between the two bikes. I was used to kicking down 3 gears and winding the engine out to pass a vehicle on a 2 lane with the 400 and do it as quickly and safely as possible, first time I did that on the 750 I was doing triple digits on the speedo before I got back into my lane! The 400 was hard pressed to reach 80.
I havn't riden in over 10 years now, still have the Sabre and am thinking about breaking it back out again because of the price of gas, but I know I have to be careful and get reaquainted with it all over again, but I'm sure the learning curve will not be as long as it was back when I was a newbie on motorized 2 wheels but i'll be taking it very easy none the less.
I hope my little story helps other newbies learning to ride and their choice in what to ride (hopefully something small) but i'll add another little story before clicking "Post Reply" button.
One day a friend that was totally green on a motorcycle, showed up at my door, he had a helmet in his hand and riding suit on, and says "wanna check out my new toy?" I walk out the front door and there sat a 2002 Honda CBR 954 RR in my driveway, all I could ask him at first glance was "are you f---ing nuts?" I fired the thing up while looking at it and immediately notice the "hair trigger" type throttle response it had when turning the throttle ever so slightly and just shook my head and shut it back down, and proceeded to give him the man this is waaaaay too much bike for you speech, hell it's way too much bike for me!
He did lay it down a few times, I witnessed the first time that very same day before he left, he had the bike facing towards the house in the driveway and I suggested that he do a backing and forward jockying around so he could ride straight out the driveway to the street, instead he decided to fire it up and ride into my yard and do a loop to turn around, he made the cardinal newbie rider mistake and turned the bars to the left keeping his hand rigid on the throttle while turning, needless to say the bike instantly revved up and he did a total 360 degree circle with it before laying it down on the ground. The bike thankfully was unscathed because of the soft grass and he didn't end up under it after the fiasco, so all that was tarnished was his pride. I helped him pick it back up again and we pushed it back to the driveway, he got back on and off he went, but I couldn't help feeling frightened for him after he went down the street.
I did eventually take it for a spin a few months later but there was no way I was gonna get even close to crazy with it and see what it would do, even being a seasoned rider the damn thing scared me! He finally sold it after having it for a little over a year, I was glad he did.
I did a lot of rural ares at first during the get aquainted stage then slowly worked my way into playing in heavier traffic in the city and on the interstates, definitely had a few close calls that got the heart fluttering but was able to stay cool enough to get out of the situation unscathed.
I rode with a friend alot and make it a point to ride it as much as possible in all weather conditions (except snow of course), I had the wife worried quite a few times when running out the door and jumping on it when an impending storm was coming. But I wanted to learn that, I wanted to learn what would happen when you hit standing water or had to slow down or stop in a hurry without trying to slide the tires, riding doesn't necessarily mean good weather all the time, I felt I had to be prepared for situations like that and you don't learn until you do it.
Then of course there is the differing road conditions too, dirt, mud, tar and chip, milled asphalt, etc. You got to experience all that during the learning curve, feel what the bike does when running on those types of roads, the seat of your pants feel when the front and back end don't seem to be taking the same path can be scary at any speed, it's learning how to handle all of that and still live to tell about it is the name of the game, "easy does it" can be so true when learning to ride.
I rode that little 400 for 4 years worth of learning then moved on to a 83 Honda VF750S (V45 Sabre) and i'll tell ya, that is a world of difference between the two bikes. I was used to kicking down 3 gears and winding the engine out to pass a vehicle on a 2 lane with the 400 and do it as quickly and safely as possible, first time I did that on the 750 I was doing triple digits on the speedo before I got back into my lane! The 400 was hard pressed to reach 80.
I havn't riden in over 10 years now, still have the Sabre and am thinking about breaking it back out again because of the price of gas, but I know I have to be careful and get reaquainted with it all over again, but I'm sure the learning curve will not be as long as it was back when I was a newbie on motorized 2 wheels but i'll be taking it very easy none the less.
I hope my little story helps other newbies learning to ride and their choice in what to ride (hopefully something small) but i'll add another little story before clicking "Post Reply" button.
One day a friend that was totally green on a motorcycle, showed up at my door, he had a helmet in his hand and riding suit on, and says "wanna check out my new toy?" I walk out the front door and there sat a 2002 Honda CBR 954 RR in my driveway, all I could ask him at first glance was "are you f---ing nuts?" I fired the thing up while looking at it and immediately notice the "hair trigger" type throttle response it had when turning the throttle ever so slightly and just shook my head and shut it back down, and proceeded to give him the man this is waaaaay too much bike for you speech, hell it's way too much bike for me!
He did lay it down a few times, I witnessed the first time that very same day before he left, he had the bike facing towards the house in the driveway and I suggested that he do a backing and forward jockying around so he could ride straight out the driveway to the street, instead he decided to fire it up and ride into my yard and do a loop to turn around, he made the cardinal newbie rider mistake and turned the bars to the left keeping his hand rigid on the throttle while turning, needless to say the bike instantly revved up and he did a total 360 degree circle with it before laying it down on the ground. The bike thankfully was unscathed because of the soft grass and he didn't end up under it after the fiasco, so all that was tarnished was his pride. I helped him pick it back up again and we pushed it back to the driveway, he got back on and off he went, but I couldn't help feeling frightened for him after he went down the street.
I did eventually take it for a spin a few months later but there was no way I was gonna get even close to crazy with it and see what it would do, even being a seasoned rider the damn thing scared me! He finally sold it after having it for a little over a year, I was glad he did.
aussieidiot
08-10-2007, 03:28 AM
i thought i might just add that these stickie threads are full of great info and advice but those new to the site, please be aware that the regulars don't check in here often because posts are few and far between. don't take offence. we're just lazy.
to AWP9521. mate, your lucky your friend with the 954 is alive. it is my third bike and can scare me every ride if i'm not careful. whats scarier is the new bikes are more potent. the '07 gixer750 has the same power to weight as my 954.
i had a friend who went from a Ninja 250 to a 954. he couldn't put his feet down when stopped. he bought it purely on price. i haven't seen him in years but last time i saw him was at a track day. he was doing 80k's down the straight while everyone else was doing 250+. seriously dangerous.
people need to really think their choice on bike and CURRENT skill level, not future skill level. you may not reach that future or level if you ride outside your capabilities
to AWP9521. mate, your lucky your friend with the 954 is alive. it is my third bike and can scare me every ride if i'm not careful. whats scarier is the new bikes are more potent. the '07 gixer750 has the same power to weight as my 954.
i had a friend who went from a Ninja 250 to a 954. he couldn't put his feet down when stopped. he bought it purely on price. i haven't seen him in years but last time i saw him was at a track day. he was doing 80k's down the straight while everyone else was doing 250+. seriously dangerous.
people need to really think their choice on bike and CURRENT skill level, not future skill level. you may not reach that future or level if you ride outside your capabilities
RaysGixlov
08-12-2007, 01:15 AM
:screwy:So I've heard A million times and know for a fact Begginers Should Not jump over so many cc's i'm guessing it Always depends on their maturity and Capability to control their urges till they gain enough experience and hours to play a little more.. I'm 18 and i'm buying a Gsx-r 750 As a First bike Regardless of what anyone says.. I have many years of experience on two wheels just not motorcycles.. Ie Dirtbikes, bicycles.. I am buy Alot of protective gear and I plan on takeing classes.. and takeing it easy the first 6-12 months if not more... I want to know one thing.. How long did it take you someone with atleast 2+ yrs exp To get used to Playing just a little with your bike Ie Twisties or racing w/e Getting comfortable with Your bike?:popcorn:
speediva
08-12-2007, 10:39 AM
:screwy:So I've heard A million times and know for a fact Begginers Should Not jump over so many cc's i'm guessing it Always depends on their maturity and Capability to control their urges till they gain enough experience and hours to play a little more.. I'm 18 and i'm buying a Gsx-r 750 As a First bike Regardless of what anyone says.. I have many years of experience on two wheels just not motorcycles.. Ie Dirtbikes, bicycles.. I am buy Alot of protective gear and I plan on takeing classes.. and takeing it easy the first 6-12 months if not more... I want to know one thing.. How long did it take you someone with atleast 2+ yrs exp To get used to Playing just a little with your bike Ie Twisties or racing w/e Getting comfortable with Your bike?:popcorn:
I'm not trying to piss you off, but I don't care how many dirtbikes you've ridden... trees don't pull out in front of you or try to merge into you. You're biting off a HELL of a lot of bike, and I STRONGLY recommend you think otherwise. Not to mention that I really highly suggest finding and taking the MSF course. It's amazing the things you didn't realize you didn't know.
Besides, thinking you're going to take it easy and actually doing it are 2 very different things. Especially at your age, people think they are invincible, but at my age, I'm telling you that you simply are not. Please reconsider your choice of bike. That's not even considering the amount of insurance you're going to pay on a bike like that!!!!
If you choose a smaller, more manageable bike, you will feel more comfortable with your bike and you'll be a better rider overall. Especially if you are interested in twisties b/c the smaller bikes are lighter and more "flickable" in the turns.
I'm not trying to piss you off, but I don't care how many dirtbikes you've ridden... trees don't pull out in front of you or try to merge into you. You're biting off a HELL of a lot of bike, and I STRONGLY recommend you think otherwise. Not to mention that I really highly suggest finding and taking the MSF course. It's amazing the things you didn't realize you didn't know.
Besides, thinking you're going to take it easy and actually doing it are 2 very different things. Especially at your age, people think they are invincible, but at my age, I'm telling you that you simply are not. Please reconsider your choice of bike. That's not even considering the amount of insurance you're going to pay on a bike like that!!!!
If you choose a smaller, more manageable bike, you will feel more comfortable with your bike and you'll be a better rider overall. Especially if you are interested in twisties b/c the smaller bikes are lighter and more "flickable" in the turns.
RaysGixlov
08-14-2007, 12:56 AM
I'm not trying to piss you off, but I don't care how many dirtbikes you've ridden... trees don't pull out in front of you or try to merge into you. You're biting off a HELL of a lot of bike, and I STRONGLY recommend you think otherwise. Not to mention that I really highly suggest finding and taking the MSF course. It's amazing the things you didn't realize you didn't know.
Besides, thinking you're going to take it easy and actually doing it are 2 very different things. Especially at your age, people think they are invincible, but at my age, I'm telling you that you simply are not. Please reconsider your choice of bike. That's not even considering the amount of insurance you're going to pay on a bike like that!!!!
If you choose a smaller, more manageable bike, you will feel more comfortable with your bike and you'll be a better rider overall. Especially if you are interested in twisties b/c the smaller bikes are lighter and more "flickable" in the turns.
Well I want something big and not something small something over 350cc and definitley under 1000.. I can get a 750 gsxr cheap from a friend thats in near perfect condition I could sell for whatever bike I want I guess and pocket the change... I just dont know what I need.. I know I will bust ass once or twice getting cocky around a turn or somewhere but it wont be crashing over 70+ i mean I want a 600 cc more than anything cause I know 750 is to much for me.. my dad said any gixer Is just to much for me.. I could handle and baby a 6 or 7 but it would be like a little boy driving daddys car,stupid.
i'm looking between 300 and 600 so hint out some names like honda rr or anything
Besides, thinking you're going to take it easy and actually doing it are 2 very different things. Especially at your age, people think they are invincible, but at my age, I'm telling you that you simply are not. Please reconsider your choice of bike. That's not even considering the amount of insurance you're going to pay on a bike like that!!!!
If you choose a smaller, more manageable bike, you will feel more comfortable with your bike and you'll be a better rider overall. Especially if you are interested in twisties b/c the smaller bikes are lighter and more "flickable" in the turns.
Well I want something big and not something small something over 350cc and definitley under 1000.. I can get a 750 gsxr cheap from a friend thats in near perfect condition I could sell for whatever bike I want I guess and pocket the change... I just dont know what I need.. I know I will bust ass once or twice getting cocky around a turn or somewhere but it wont be crashing over 70+ i mean I want a 600 cc more than anything cause I know 750 is to much for me.. my dad said any gixer Is just to much for me.. I could handle and baby a 6 or 7 but it would be like a little boy driving daddys car,stupid.
i'm looking between 300 and 600 so hint out some names like honda rr or anything
KansasCityCutty
08-14-2007, 12:58 AM
what about cars like 1983 oldsmobile cutlass supreme
RaysGixlov
08-14-2007, 01:55 AM
what about cars like 1983 oldsmobile cutlass supreme
I dont have car budget.. If I did I would be looking at 300zx or a supra and tweaking it a little to be fun but economical..
I'm not a stupid newb when it comes to bikes.. I've dreamed and rode a few bikes never had money and I've researched for weeks now.. on tech and skill what people are saying and a friend will let me test drive a few so I can find what I need i will test a 600 750 and a 500
I dont have car budget.. If I did I would be looking at 300zx or a supra and tweaking it a little to be fun but economical..
I'm not a stupid newb when it comes to bikes.. I've dreamed and rode a few bikes never had money and I've researched for weeks now.. on tech and skill what people are saying and a friend will let me test drive a few so I can find what I need i will test a 600 750 and a 500
richtazz
08-14-2007, 05:47 AM
What year is the GSXR? If it's a relatively new one, you're going to hurt yourself. The newer GSXR-750's have as much power as liter class bikes of only a few years ago, only they're lighter and more twitchy. The bike you are choosing is a hard edged sportbike, and not at all forgiving. At 18, I would give you a 75% chance of landing yourself in the hospital if you buy that bike for your first one. You're probably going to look at my pics/profile and see that I ride a Harley and think I don't know what I'm talking about. I've been riding (between dirt bikes and road bikes) for twice as long as you've been alive. I've ridden everything from powercruisers (Honda Magna, Kawi KZ-900), to a sportbikes (Kawi ZX-11, Honda VFR, etc...)to my current Harley and I know what I speak of. Please, Please heed our warnings and rethink your choice of first bike. In addition to the expense of insurance, the plastic on sportbikes is really $$$$ when you eventually drop it.
RaysGixlov
08-14-2007, 07:44 AM
What year is the GSXR? If it's a relatively new one, you're going to hurt yourself. The newer GSXR-750's have as much power as liter class bikes of only a few years ago, only they're lighter and more twitchy. The bike you are choosing is a hard edged sportbike, and not at all forgiving. At 18, I would give you a 75% chance of landing yourself in the hospital if you buy that bike for your first one. You're probably going to look at my pics/profile and see that I ride a Harley and think I don't know what I'm talking about. I've been riding (between dirt bikes and road bikes) for twice as long as you've been alive. I've ridden everything from powercruisers (Honda Magna, Kawi KZ-900), to a sportbikes (Kawi ZX-11, Honda VFR, etc...)to my current Harley and I know what I speak of. Please, Please heed our warnings and rethink your choice of first bike. In addition to the expense of insurance, the plastic on sportbikes is really $$$$ when you eventually drop it.
I was asking what I should get.. I know the newer gsxr's are more powerful.. 500/650 ninja?.. just give me some Ideas on the hondas and kawasaki's or older gixr's 6
I was asking what I should get.. I know the newer gsxr's are more powerful.. 500/650 ninja?.. just give me some Ideas on the hondas and kawasaki's or older gixr's 6
richtazz
08-14-2007, 08:54 AM
I'm 18 and i'm buying a Gsx-r 750 As a First bike Regardless of what anyone says..
This is a quote from your original post in this thread.
I was asking what I should get.. I know the newer gsxr's are more powerful.. 500/650 ninja?.. just give me some Ideas on the hondas and kawasaki's or older gixr's 6
Here's a quote from you last post in this thread.
We were all responding to the original post, so if you're asking now what you should consider buying, we can help. If you have a brain, and some motorcycle experience, you could probably get away with a late 90's to 04-05 600, but you better respect it. I would still suggest a smaller 500cc or so bike since you're so young, and an inexperienced driver as well as a novice motorcyclist. One of the great things with starter bikes is that there is a market for them. You will almost always get your money back when you outgrow it and decide to sell, unless of course you wreck it.
This is a quote from your original post in this thread.
I was asking what I should get.. I know the newer gsxr's are more powerful.. 500/650 ninja?.. just give me some Ideas on the hondas and kawasaki's or older gixr's 6
Here's a quote from you last post in this thread.
We were all responding to the original post, so if you're asking now what you should consider buying, we can help. If you have a brain, and some motorcycle experience, you could probably get away with a late 90's to 04-05 600, but you better respect it. I would still suggest a smaller 500cc or so bike since you're so young, and an inexperienced driver as well as a novice motorcyclist. One of the great things with starter bikes is that there is a market for them. You will almost always get your money back when you outgrow it and decide to sell, unless of course you wreck it.
psych0hans
08-16-2007, 05:00 AM
If you want something thats not big, but still very potent, you could go in for an apprilla 250rs, It may only be 250cc but the sucker kicks out a good 70hp :icon16::naughty:
aussieidiot
08-17-2007, 03:21 AM
i rode a 1996 gsxr 750t. if thats going to be your first bike, then good luck to you and my sympathies to your family.
i have apprentices aged from 17-21 who all want to ride bikes. one has a ZX2R and they all ride that. then they realise how potent and unforgiving a bike can be. street riding is nothing like dirt riding. on a 250 ninja, a full throttle blip will be fun when you start. then you get used to it and move up. if your first bike is a GSXR750 post 96 and you fully open the throttle quickly, you'd better be hanging on and sitting over the front wheel.
i went from a 250 to the 750 and took it to the track. everyday it surprised me and thrilled me. also made me shit my pants.
now the 06-07 750's have more power than my 954 and weigh the same.
oh and don't think talking yourself up gains our respect. we respect level headed genuine people more than those who reckon they're top shelf. you think your special, we've seen it all before. hang around and get some good advice and learn some things. please don't jump in telling us what you plan to do regardless of what we think. that'll get you no respect.
go a mid 90's cbr600 and be happy to learn to ride before you die.
i have apprentices aged from 17-21 who all want to ride bikes. one has a ZX2R and they all ride that. then they realise how potent and unforgiving a bike can be. street riding is nothing like dirt riding. on a 250 ninja, a full throttle blip will be fun when you start. then you get used to it and move up. if your first bike is a GSXR750 post 96 and you fully open the throttle quickly, you'd better be hanging on and sitting over the front wheel.
i went from a 250 to the 750 and took it to the track. everyday it surprised me and thrilled me. also made me shit my pants.
now the 06-07 750's have more power than my 954 and weigh the same.
oh and don't think talking yourself up gains our respect. we respect level headed genuine people more than those who reckon they're top shelf. you think your special, we've seen it all before. hang around and get some good advice and learn some things. please don't jump in telling us what you plan to do regardless of what we think. that'll get you no respect.
go a mid 90's cbr600 and be happy to learn to ride before you die.
vain771
06-08-2009, 05:52 PM
zzr 600 2005-08 fast .....more upright position ..cheaper insurance because its technically a sport touriing rather labeled...technically its a00-02 fast mofo..zx6..cheaper bike.....cheaper insurance means u can getr better medical....youll need it.......
msn
08-11-2009, 04:59 PM
Yes what they all say it true. I have been a driver for 2 years and a passenger for well we dont want to go there....FOREVER...My best advise is pick a bike that you feel fit you not your friend who can already ride. You will be driving not them....If you are afraid of the bike your will have a hard time getting started and will probably not stay with it long enough to learn. I would also tell all the new drivers that where you look you will go
and take it from me that is so so true and you do not even realize it when you first start to ride....So Be SAFE, HAVE FUN.....Let the wind hit your face.......:)
and take it from me that is so so true and you do not even realize it when you first start to ride....So Be SAFE, HAVE FUN.....Let the wind hit your face.......:)
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