04 4-Runner and Burning smell

I was looking into getting an 04 Sr5 and test drove one last weekend...After some spirited test driving, I noticed the burning smell that everyone has been complaining about. The sales guy told me it is a new engine so it is breaking in...BS man....is this the catalytic converter...does anyone know if toyota is gonna fix it in the 05's?

This smell is not only in Toyotas. Many brands of cars smell like this, although most vehicles do not ever smell. Only some of them apparently smell.

Here is a link to a 4-Runner forum devoted just to this issue:

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/[email protected]@.ef172af/0

Let me warn you that the majority of complaints in that forum are from a very small number of owners, so it seems that the problem is more pervasive than it really is. It is unclear what percentage of the vehicles have this problem.

The problem is a reaction of the catalyst with the sulfer combustion products. They sit on the catalyst until a rich mixture (hard acceleration) causes a chemical reaction to liberate hydrogen sulfide.

This is not something Toyota will fix. It is a problem with sulfur levels in the gasoline. You can avoid this by buying low-sulfur gas. In general, the premium fuel (93 octane) is lower in sulfur than the 87 octane fuel at any particular gas station. Some owners have not been able to solve this problem, probably because they are unable to get low-sulfur gas. Some owners never have the problem for unknown reasons. The vehicle you drove probably had 87 octane (the cheapest) gas filled by the dealer. That vehicle may not give off any odor at all with premium gas. 89 octane is a crapshoot for this odor.

Low-sulfur gasolines (in my area) are AMOCO (BP) Supreme, SUNOCO premium, and Shell premium. There are probably others, but I don't know about them.

There is an emissions law that is going into effect in the near future sometime that limits the sulfur levels in gasoline. This will provide a cure.

Maybe toyota is saying this is the gasoline...

I've had about 10 cars in my life....and I've know many others who have purchased Toyota's and other vehicles...never heard of this issue before with them....so I'm not sure if it is the "gas"....

My first testdrive with an 04 4runner....then boom, i get the smell....and I've heard of others in reading edmunds reviews who have the same issue...so I'm not sure if Toyota blaming the gas is the answer...

oh and i live in california by the way

"I've had about 10 cars in my life....and I've know many others who have purchased Toyota's and other vehicles...never heard of this issue before with them"

Like I said, most vehicles do not have this problem. There are many other Toyota vehicles, as well as other brands of vehicles that have this problem occasionally. I have smelled them and I have seen reports of them on the internet. Search and you will find complaints from any brand of vehicle you wish. You can also find unlimited numbers of descriptions of this problem from a chemistry point of view. This is a well-known and well-characterized phenomena.

"I've heard of others in reading edmunds reviews who have the same issue...so I'm not sure if Toyota blaming the gas is the answer..."

The forum which I linked to above is specific for the sulfur smell in 4Runners, so you will only find 4Runner owners complaining there. Remember that from all the 4Runners sold in 2003 and 2004 (a lot), there are only 5-10 or so owners who are complaining on that forum. Most of the complaints and rants are repeat posts from the same people. Reading that forum will provide you with some background, but it will also give you a distorted perspective of the problem, since only owners with complaints are posting. Owners without the sulfur smell do not find that forum and post that they don't have a problem. It is the nature of the internet.

The sulfur is definitely from the gas. Whether you blame the gasoline refiners for the sulfur, or blame the car manufacturers/catalyst engineers for the catalyst is your business. This is not a Toyota-specific or 4Runner-specific issue. It is a catalyst-specific issue and many vehicles use this catalyst. Please do not blow this problem out of proportion or hastily place the blame for this problem before you read alot about it and understand what is going on.

perhaps you are right...it was just a coincedence that the one I drove had that problem .....also it it is a catalyst problem...then wouldn't all the cars that use the same gas in the same state..eg let's say mobil super unlead have the same problem....strange there wouldn't be more complaints.

Not a coincidence. The dealer is going to give you cheap gas. That is going to increase the probability of your vehicle having this problem.

Also not strange about the frequency. Most vehicles with this catalyst do not have this problem. Not everything about this problem is understood. It may be a contaminant in the gas or catalyst that causes it, in addition to the catalyst composition and sulfur in the gas. Driving habits are certainly a factor. For the smell to be noticed by the driver, the smell has to both be generated (which is not happening constantly) and enter the passenger compartment. Drivers who have the a/c on with fresh air blowing in and the windows closed will not normally smell the exhaust, unless it is from the car in front of them.

That web site for the sulfur smell is not very active any more. Note that the 5th most recent post is from February.

Not a coincidence. The dealer is going to give you cheap gas. That is going to increase the probability of your vehicle having this problem.



What do you mean by cheap gas? 87 Arco?

I guess...They think that 87 octane is all you need. Particularly with gas prices the way they are.

Actually, since you mentioned it earlier, Toyota may fix some of the problem related to this smell getting into the passenger compartment. One of the reasons 4Runner drivers smell the exhaust is coincidental location of the exhaust pipe and the HVAC air exhaust in the wheel wells. Relocating these further away from each other may help the driver ignore this smell. :)

Actually, since you mentioned it earlier, Toyota may fix some of the problem related to this smell getting into the passenger compartment. One of the reasons 4Runner drivers smell the exhaust is coincidental location of the exhaust pipe and the HVAC air exhaust in the wheel wells. Relocating these further away from each other may help the driver ignore this smell. :)


I'm really hoping they will fix this in the 05 4-Runner cause I really loved it when I drove it. However, that smell really turned me and my wife off....man it was strong...I may wait if they are actually going to do this...or buy a Honda Pilot :-)

It seems that trucks on the lot would be more likely to emit an odor since they have been driven and, if they smell, would have been rejected by a potential owner. So they sit, waiting for another test drive.

Considering the small percentage of vehicles that actually smell, you would be wise to just order a truck. Odds are that it won't emit an odor. This would even the odds to basically the same odds as finding a bad-smelling Honda Pilot. Remember, Honda is not immune from this problem.

Like I said, most vehicles do not have this problem.

What makes you think that most 4Runners don't have this problem? I haven't run across a 4Runner owner that hasn't had the smelly exhaust.

I have talked with many on line that have not. Only a few that have. I have also driven behind hundreds of new 4Runners. They can't hide if it from me if they have that smell.

Also, there would be a lot more on the Edmunds problem topic than there is currently. The topic is dead. To me that means very few are interested. That means very few have the problem other than the 10 or so posters on that forum who profess to have that problem. The few with that problem have said their peace.

That is what I base that statement on. I have been involved with this problem from the beginning since I was in the market for a 2003 4Runner. The problem is way overblown - also not particular to this truck. If every vehicle with this common catalyst had that problem, the highway would smell like a dead skunk. And you don't miss it when you smell it. It is not a subtle odor.

Maybe everyone you've talked to likes to run regular gas. Maybe they live in a state that has particularly high sulfur gasoline. The Edmunds forum is open to anyone from any state. I suggest you read that forum if you are interested in owners with that problem.

like I said, maybe brian is right...

It was just a coincedence that the only 4runner I picked out of the lot just happened to have that burning smell. I don't think so...it is an issue....why?

I've had many many cars in my life....you said this can happen to any car...well, how come none of my cars had that issue in my whole life...and I life in California...not only that, but I've probably been in 100's if not thousands of other cars with friends, family, etc....and no one has ever mentioned a burning smell in their car...so there...answer that......it ain't other cars...

I've answered this. It is other cars. If you had done some research on the issue you would realize this.

California gasoline is required to be low in sulfur content. That is why you don't normally smell it in California. Even fewer cars in CA smell than in other states.

If you are worried, don't buy it. Just don't worry out of ignorance of the issue, and don't spread uninformed claims. You have a responsibility to read about issues before you spread rumors. Live up to that responsibility.

Here are some links - read.

http://www.swri.edu/10light/catalyst.htm

http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/TROUBLE_SHOOTING/exhaust.html

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h56.pdf

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h64.pdf

http://www.autosite.com/garage/subsys/bacataly.asp

http://brickboard.com/ARCHIVES/1997NOV/4911.shtml

http://forums.vmag.com/suvmt0199/messages/1033.html

http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:YvmtTERMmBkJ:www.startribune.com/stories/435/3429524.html+sulfur+catalyst+smell+converter&hl=en

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2926&st=0

http://brickboard.com/ARCHIVES/1999JUN/10012012.shtml

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/[email protected]@.ee997a9!k eywords=allin%3Amsgtext%20limit%3A.ee997a9%20sulfu r%20smell&count=20

http://member.rivernet.com.au/btaylor/BMWText/technical/RottenEggGas.html

http://www.dodgedakotas.com/boards/raise/359.html

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=95723#post95723

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?n=158,209&sid=209&article=1514

There are hundreds more if you search the internet.

man i work for a Hyundai dealer and ALL of our cars have a funny smell for the first few thousand kilometers, especially if you are into spirited driving, but after that it goes away and they are fine. ALL manufactureres experience it. ever plug in a new dvd player or tv and get that annoying smell from the fan? well these are cars so they have a few more new moving parts!

I have talked with many on line that have not. Only a few that have. I have also driven behind hundreds of new 4Runners. They can't hide if it from me if they have that smell.



They only emit the nasty exhaust under medium/hard acceleration, correct? Correct. Just because you didn't smell anything, doesn't mean that the vehicle doesn't produce the rotten eggs.



Also, there would be a lot more on the Edmunds problem topic than there is currently. The topic is dead. To me that means very few are interested. That means very few have the problem other than the 10 or so posters on that forum who profess to have that problem. The few with that problem have said their peace.

I'd say that it means most owners have already tried to get resolution on the problem, and have finally given up because the dealers are unwilling to address the issue. It's probably a harmless issue, though. So not a huge deal.

"They only emit the nasty exhaust under medium/hard acceleration, correct? Correct. Just because you didn't smell anything, doesn't mean that the vehicle doesn't produce the rotten eggs."

No, not correct. The vehicles that have the problem smell bad all the time when they are being driven hard on the expressway.

"I'd say that it means most owners have already tried to get resolution on the problem, and have finally given up because the dealers are unwilling to address the issue."

That's one interpretation. Not necessarily the correct one.

I am not going to argue further about this problem. I have no interest in this issue any more since I am no longer in the market for a 4th generation 4Runner. Read the references I posted and others you can easily find. If you want to argue further, there are forums devoted to this issue with people who love to argue. I don't.

No, not correct. The vehicles that have the problem smell bad all the time when they are being driven hard on the expressway.

Isn't that basically what I just said?

I am pointing out that there is a much higher probablility of driving close behind a vehicle on the expressway in rush hour than being close behind one under medium/high acceleration conditions on other streets. Since I drive the expressway daily, I am exposed to this type of conditions with 4 Runners (and other vehicles with this catalyst) somewhat frequently.

California gasoline is required to be low in sulfur content. That is why you don't normally smell it in California. Even fewer cars in CA smell than in other states.

And, like said previously, it is not a coincidence that the 4Runner you drove smelled. I will not restate my comments.

Here is a reference to a TSB from Toyota regarding a fix for this problem.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/attachment.php?postid=30258

Hey Brian, thanks for the info. Sorry, haven't been on the board for a while.

so, toyota is admitting this is an issue? :-) do you know if this fix, as well as the master cylinder issue will be fixed in the 05 4runner?

No, sorry. I don't have information on that. Check out this thread - They discuss the most recent information.

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/[email protected]@.ef172af

What makes you think that most 4Runners don't have this problem? I haven't run across a 4Runner owner that hasn't had the smelly exhaust.

I must be an extremely lucky 4Runner owner because I own a 2003 V8 Limited 4WD and a 2004 V8 Limited 4WD and have never smelled anything. To top it all off -- I use the cheap gas and drive very aggressively.
Shoot, I might want to start playing the lottery.


--Steve
http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/500/212929whatapair.jpg

I must be an extremely lucky 4Runner owner because I own a 2003 V8 Limited 4WD and a 2004 V8 Limited 4WD and have never smelled anything. To top it all off -- I use the cheap gas and drive very aggressively.
Shoot, I might want to start playing the lottery.





I guess you like 4runners, but why the heck would you get the same vehicle (1 hear apart) and for god's sake...the same color...:-)

His and Her 4Runners

I guess you like 4runners, but why the heck would you get the same vehicle (1 hear apart) and for god's sake...the same color...:-)

I Found the 2004 at a great price and couldn't resist. Also, the 2004 has a spoiler and pinstripe where the 2003 doesn't. However, I am currently adding a stainless brush-guard, tinted front windows, lense covers, TRD supercharger, a light bar, and possibly a winch to mine. That should make them a bit different. She wants to keep hers stock. Also, I did find that it makes washing her car much easier, I just use the same routine developed while washing my mine. :-)

I have an 04 SR-5 V6 2WD and I smell it when accelerating up the freeway on-ramp. (i live in socal)

I got this from a thread on tundrasolutions.com

Looks like Toyota finally is admitting that there is a problem with the release of TSB EG015-04. They are replacing the cat and reprogramming the ECM.

Toyota does not notify owners when a TSB is issued, only if it is a Campaign (Recall) or a Customer Support Program.

June 14, TSB EG020-04, EXCESSIVE SULFUR DIOXIDE ODOR, 2003 – 2004 model year 4Runner vehicles equipped with the 2UZ–FE engine produced BEFORE the Production Change Effective VINs listed (see the TSB for the VIN #'s).

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I asked them about my late 03 4Runner and they are saying that changing the converter has no effect on the smell. They don't want to deal with it. Did anyone notice a reduction in the stink with a changed catalytic converter?

reply
It is more than replacing the Cats, it also includes a reprogram of the ECU. Combined there is a drastic improvement. I don't think they have a lot of option when it comes to doing this. If you are having the problem with the odor, then they are obligated to correct it.

You may be running into the summer problem. In the auto repair business summer is the busy time of year. They are probably trying to discourage warranty work because it doesn't pay as much as they can charge customers coming in the door. I bet you stop by the first week of Januaray and they will want to perform every TSB they can find on your 4runner.

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Hmmm - - - Which one would you rather have? A slight sulfurous smell every now and then or an American made piece of junk that requires a visit to the mechanic monthly? You CANNOT beat Toyota/Honda for reliability!!

The sulfur smell from the catalyst/gasoline has no relationship to reliability. They are two independent concepts.

No - you are right but if that is the only complaint you have about your 4Runner - than I'll take that over an American made rust bucket that will nickel and dime you over time.

Those have both been cited or discussed previously. See post #22 and others in this thread.

Anyone going to a dealer, don't bring both documents. Only bring the one I referenced in Post #22. The other one supports what the dealers claim and is detrimental to your argument.

still wondering if this will be fixed in the 05 4runner that is out right now.

I finally took my 4runner to the dealership and they performed the TSB for the sulfur smell. The smell is pretty much gone, however during hard acceleration (like getting on the onramp of the free way or going up steep hills on the freeway i could still smell that horrible smell when the rear window is down). has anyone else had their's serviced. is there no trace of the smell at all?
Also, when i first got it done there was like a burning smell but i figured it was just the new cat getting broken in, and it went away after a few days. everything is great, it's just those times of hard acceleration that the smell comes out.