Ls/Vtec----Experienced only please

Ive just read basically every post concerning the ls/vtec from the past 2-3 years. No matter what the question, the same answers kept getting repeated. All anyone ever says is that the ls/vtec is "unreliable" and not worth it but if its built right, it can be a great investment and a bad ass motor. People love to repeat that answer. Could someone please explain to me what is the difference between a well built ls/vtec and a shit one. Many people linked tutorials on building these motors....I read everyone, so are those the 'right' way to build one? Would using the golden eagle ls/vtec conversion kit be considered properly building an ls/vtec?

And let me specify, when I say 'building' the motor, i just mean putting it together and making it run well. I do not been building the internals.

as long as every step is taken along the way of proper torque specs, correct parts usage, proper fittings, lines, wiring, etc. the motor will be fine. if you rush the job, skip a step here or there becuase you dont think its nesecary then the motor will fail. just do it right the first time, follow the steps of someone who has properly done the swap before.

Where would I be able to find proper torque specs for the ls/vtec....im sure there is alot of different answers for each person you talk to

has anyone here acturally done an LSvtec? I am curious myself

Where would I be able to find proper torque specs for the ls/vtec....im sure there is alot of different answers for each person you talk to

I always like to have the official manufactures repair manual for all my cars. If you can't find them or afford them, the Haynes manuals are also good.

Oh, FYI the clicking torque wrenches are not as accurate as the bending bar style.

go to hondatech.com im sure ud find more help there i see alot of build ups over on that website

Yea haynes manuals are good for ls motors and the b18c's and b16's, but i dont think they have a manual for an ls/vtec which probably has different numbers.

I've am currently running LS/VTEC. So far no problems. I don't have any leaks **KNOCK ON WOOD**. Everything is running great the power gains is awesome. The Haynes Manual worked great with the torque issue. So far its been great going on 5 months already.

Yea haynes manuals are good for ls motors and the b18c's and b16's, but i dont think they have a manual for an ls/vtec which probably has different numbers.
Well, they don't have the numbers for LSvtecs, because LSvtecs, while made from Honda parts, aren't Honda motor. Use the vtec heads torque specs.

Oh ok so if I do this, I should use a manual for the head that I am swapping onto the ls block....

almxdupintegra- you said that you are running an ls/vtec now...did you use the eagle kit?

Actually, I think you want to use the GSR headbolts, and specs. I'll confirm it with my friend who has built three very nice crvtecs.

So you mean that I will want to use the GSR headbolts and specs if I use a GSR head...but if I went with a b16a head, then I would use those right?

No, even with a B16A head you use the GSR ones, since it is a 1.8 block. I only asked him about the specs, but in a build up I read by another guy how's been running a B16A head on a LS block for a while now, he says GSR bolts.

One of the things to remember once the LS/Vtec is built is not to rev it much past 7000rpm. The LS has a redline of around 7000rpm. Although the Head you are putting on may redline at 7800-8000rpm, you are still using the LS block, which has designed with a 7000rpm redline in mind. One of the things that can help mess up an LS/Vtec is over-revving it like that. You may have a new head that can handle higher revs, but the block and the internals are still the same ones that were built with a 7000rpm redline in mind.

Yea, I agree with what you saying. I have been driving my car with the stock redline at 6800...and I dont bring the rpm's up there hardly ever at all, so I will be fine keeping the rpm's where the block likes it, under 6800.

But say I wanted to have the ability to rev the ls/vtec up past 7000 rpm's, would I want built up internals like heavier forged rods for strength or would I want lighter weight rods (wouldnt this make sense because they move alot faster?)

Forged = lighter + stronger = less strain.

I see, I thought forged were heavier and thats where they got their strength from, the extra mass

is the ls/vtec motor making power past 7000 rpm? It probably does. So i guess you win in reliablilty and power by sleaving the block and changing the pistons and rods. I think you'd want to go with lighter weight rods. Im under the impression that the heavier rods are for turbocharger applications.

Forged parts are stronger because of they way they are made, not because they are heavier, they are lighter.

And whether or not a lsvtec makes power above XXXXrpms is determined by the build, and whether or not the cams, pistons, compression, and so forth can make power that high.

As jcrx said, forged parts are manufactored a certian way. Think of it as squeezing the living heck out of the metal and changing it's sturture, making it more stable. This will eliminate the microscopic holes and stress points, creating a stronger and lighter part. This is a bad example, but it will give you a rough idea.

Anyways, the forged parts are lighter AND stronger, where it be wheels, pistons, rods, etc. Whether you are building for N/A or Boost, you'll want Forged parts. They will give you the strongest part at fairly light weight.

Also, as jcrx said, the motor making power past 7K has to do with engine tuning, cam profiles, and whether the parts can efficently make power that high. Not all parts can flow the air and make power up high. Of course, the first part is making sure the parts CAN handle the strain of such high rpms, but if you are building the internals and buy qaulity stuff, you should be fine on that.

not to sound like a dumbass or anything but i'm just now getting into this honda thing. are you all talking about say for instance taking a accord lx and putting a v-tec head and computer into it or what?

No, we're talking about "frankensein" motors, which is talking a non vtec block, and putting a vtec head on it, most commonly hte Integra LS/GS/SE/RS motors B18A/B and the CRV B20Z/B. It can also be done with the H23 block, and H22 head.

not to sound like a dumbass or anything but i'm just now getting into this honda thing. are you all talking about say for instance taking a accord lx and putting a v-tec head and computer into it or what?

thats what i was talking about. because i want to put a v-tec head on mine. just don't know what all i need to do that

i know the eagle kits make a V/tec conversion alot easier. My question is will you have to get the head machined kif you buy the kit? i heard it include dow pins which make machining unnessary.

hey does anyone have a dyno of a lsvtec motor?

The eagle kit is what I am looking into also. I know you still have to tap the head for the oil line....which is prolly better left up to someone wiht some experience cause you dont want to fuck that up. Other then that, I think the eagle kit includes everything to put the ls/vtec together, but dont down play the wiring with the new ecu. I havent done it yet, but Im sure its not easy.

Im also looking for some dynos of an ls/vtec made from a b18a and a b16a head. Anyone got one?

WWW.IMPORTREVIEW.COM

When i hopped on the dyno I was at 194 and then after tuning I think i was right at 200..I'll see if i can dig that up somewhere..
but that was before the pistons, intake mani, and cams.

What pistons should and LS VTEC run? I'm trying to research it all before I tear into it, so what pistons are the best for the LS VTEC. I'm hoping to build it with the LS block with a b16 head with a mild p&p. Also what should be done to the bottom end to try to squeeze another 500 RPM out of it? And what ECU would be the best for an LSVTEC? I've heard GSR, but still dont know why

wow, a regular bringing up an old thread.... thats not something u see everyday....and to answer your question.. Gsr ECU is best because it already has the circuitry for Vtec and the fuel map is set for the 1.8l displacement. as for pistons.. id leave the stockers in there, or get a nice set of JE ones.. as for squeezing out 500rpms, the bottom end should be fine with forged rods and pistons, but u may need a better top end.

So basically if I build an LSVTEC with the proper valves, springs, retainers, pistons and rods it should be fine revving up to about 7500?

SHOULD be.

But what is the rev limiter on the GS-R? Does it have a top speed limiter?

why you only going to 7500? get b16 pistons, new arp rod bolts, vtec oil pump. thats pretty much it. that should handle the revs to 8k

Well right now I am still in the reseraching phase, but I've heard the stock LS bottom end isn't that great after 7000. I didn't think that taking it up to 8000 would be a good idea, but then again with the rods and pistons and all it should go up that high easier. Another question what compression ratio would be a good ratio to shoot for with the LSVTEC? Is it a good idea to run high compression on an all motor application like an ls vtec?

So basically if I build an LSVTEC with the proper valves, springs, retainers, pistons and rods it should be fine revving up to about 7500?

Let me rephrase this for you.

"If I build an LSVTEC with all the stock parts and a GE conversion kit it should be fine revving to 8000"

Past 8000 and I like to have some ARP rod bolts, because those are basically the weak link in an LS motor. I turned my B20/VTEC to 8500 daily with ARP rod bolts in a stock motor. With eagle rods and wiseco pistons I took it to 9000+ with regularity.

The B20 oil pump is the same as the GSR's, no need to swap it out.

Score! That will defintly make it easier. I don't think I'm gonna be doing the headwork, due to what needs to be done for the conversion, but I think I'm pretty sure I could put the bottom end together...

please make me look stupid... If I just want a simple LS/Vtec, all I need is some good rods, stronger pistons, good bolts fo the rods and not rev over 7500rpm?... Because I want to build one, but I heard they dont last too long.

please make me look stupid... If I just want a simple LS/Vtec, all I need is some good rods, stronger pistons, good bolts fo the rods and not rev over 7500rpm?... Because I want to build one, but I heard they dont last too long.

Did you read anything I just said? I turned a stock B20 motor with ARP rod bolts to 8500 RPM's every single day for around 10K miles without any trouble. Stock block, stock crank, stock pistons, stock rods, ARP rod bolts. With eagle rods and wiseco pistons I turned 9000+ RPM's.