true coilover talk....
petzride
01-14-2002, 11:21 PM
I've just received the Feb Super Street mag today. They have an article review on all the true coilovers again. guess what?? even APC has its true full-coilover this year. The retail price is only $585, and I bet da thing will bounce all around....lol. Two items that really caught my eyes are the Zeal coilover and Tein. They are popular in JP, but are pretty new in the U.S.(at least to me). If any of u have or had them, please share the experiences with me. Thanks.....la~~ :D
BTW, this month's SS mag is so cool~~~:smoker2:
BTW, this month's SS mag is so cool~~~:smoker2:
Dezoris
01-15-2002, 05:51 AM
Anybody can make the body of the shock threaded.
Make the case think enough to thread it and you have a coilover :)
It is what is inside that counts, rates, oil, spring matching bla bla.
That is what you don't get with sleevs or the cheapy threaded body shocks.
Tein is very expensive.
One of my guys by me rolls with the Tein HAs.
I can tell you those are a race setup, very, very stiff, rough for the street, they have lower models that are more streetable. But for that price you can have an awesome streetable/race coilover with a non-import brand.
Zeal is the same story. Both are high, high quality but too stiff IMO.
Although if you want to track the car, very tempting.
If I had to do it all over,
1.)Revalve my Bilstein/Neuspeed coilovers to make the double or tripple adjustable
2.)Go with H&R coilovers
3.)Penske racing shocks (hydrolic control)
4.)Tein
Or then again the APC with some AR rims and T/A Scorchers in Yellow would be my speed ;)
Make the case think enough to thread it and you have a coilover :)
It is what is inside that counts, rates, oil, spring matching bla bla.
That is what you don't get with sleevs or the cheapy threaded body shocks.
Tein is very expensive.
One of my guys by me rolls with the Tein HAs.
I can tell you those are a race setup, very, very stiff, rough for the street, they have lower models that are more streetable. But for that price you can have an awesome streetable/race coilover with a non-import brand.
Zeal is the same story. Both are high, high quality but too stiff IMO.
Although if you want to track the car, very tempting.
If I had to do it all over,
1.)Revalve my Bilstein/Neuspeed coilovers to make the double or tripple adjustable
2.)Go with H&R coilovers
3.)Penske racing shocks (hydrolic control)
4.)Tein
Or then again the APC with some AR rims and T/A Scorchers in Yellow would be my speed ;)
Racing Rice
01-15-2002, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by Dezoris
Or then again the APC with some AR rims and T/A Scorchers in Yellow would be my speed ;)
How did you know these were my next mods??? I want the tires with the flames..;) :D
Or then again the APC with some AR rims and T/A Scorchers in Yellow would be my speed ;)
How did you know these were my next mods??? I want the tires with the flames..;) :D
texan
01-15-2002, 12:58 PM
Personally I think the Tein HA's are perfectly streetable, stiff yes but not very harsh. Of course that's just for the 5th gen Prelude applications, I haven't sampled them on anythng else yet. BTW, Tein just came out with a new system called the SS, which should be very streetable and is designed specifically for the US market. I am trying to buy a set within the month actually, at this point the hardest thing will be finding them from a reputable supplier.
SilverY2KCivic
01-15-2002, 02:46 PM
I read that same S/S article as well and was wondering from it, how are the Neuspeed coilovers? Stiff, loose, stock feeling like? Anyone know that can tell me?
Someguy
01-15-2002, 03:20 PM
3.)Penske racing shocks (hydrolic control)
How much would those run you? I've seen them up and over $5,000 for some applications (Corvette, Mustang). Youch!
How much would those run you? I've seen them up and over $5,000 for some applications (Corvette, Mustang). Youch!
petzride
01-16-2002, 01:03 AM
hum...so Tein and Zeal ain't good, huh?
hey Dezoris...
which Bilstein shocks do u have? the one that original come with neuspeed springs? or the one with Bilstein springs? cuz...I saw two in the mag, and they looked different. And is Bilstein and koni the same company?
If I have chance to do it again, I'll go with eibach sportline and koni.:smoker2:
yes...if I'll ever have da kind of chance.....:D
hey Dezoris...
which Bilstein shocks do u have? the one that original come with neuspeed springs? or the one with Bilstein springs? cuz...I saw two in the mag, and they looked different. And is Bilstein and koni the same company?
If I have chance to do it again, I'll go with eibach sportline and koni.:smoker2:
yes...if I'll ever have da kind of chance.....:D
Dezoris
01-16-2002, 01:20 AM
Originally posted by Racing Rice
How did you know these were my next mods??? I want the tires with the flames..;) :D
When you go with that setup will you take pictures of me by your car :)
How did you know these were my next mods??? I want the tires with the flames..;) :D
When you go with that setup will you take pictures of me by your car :)
Dezoris
01-16-2002, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by texan
Personally I think the Tein HA's are perfectly streetable, stiff yes but not very harsh. Of course that's just for the 5th gen Prelude applications, I haven't sampled them on anythng else yet. BTW, Tein just came out with a new system called the SS, which should be very streetable and is designed specifically for the US market. I am trying to buy a set within the month actually, at this point the hardest thing will be finding them from a reputable supplier.
Some of this is in driving taste, maybe I am not a good example.
My setup is very supple, so I have to admit I have gotten use to it.
I've I ran the Koni/Neupseed setup, I would probably love the stiff ride of the teins. I may love them now if the roads I drive on everyday were not swiss cheese.
Does R&D sell them? (The SS)
Personally I think the Tein HA's are perfectly streetable, stiff yes but not very harsh. Of course that's just for the 5th gen Prelude applications, I haven't sampled them on anythng else yet. BTW, Tein just came out with a new system called the SS, which should be very streetable and is designed specifically for the US market. I am trying to buy a set within the month actually, at this point the hardest thing will be finding them from a reputable supplier.
Some of this is in driving taste, maybe I am not a good example.
My setup is very supple, so I have to admit I have gotten use to it.
I've I ran the Koni/Neupseed setup, I would probably love the stiff ride of the teins. I may love them now if the roads I drive on everyday were not swiss cheese.
Does R&D sell them? (The SS)
Dezoris
01-16-2002, 01:30 AM
Originally posted by petzride
hum...so Tein and Zeal ain't good, huh?
hey Dezoris...
which Bilstein shocks do u have? the one that original come with neuspeed springs? or the one with Bilstein springs? cuz...I saw two in the mag, and they looked different. And is Bilstein and koni the same company?
If I have chance to do it again, I'll go with eibach sportline and koni.:smoker2:
yes...if I'll ever have da kind of chance.....:D
No, actually the Tein/Zeal setups are onme of the best, but like Texan said, they are imports. I think this may be why they are hyped and over priced too.
It is the Neuspeed/Bilstein version, basically they are specially valved and threded Bilstein sports.
Koni and Bilstein are separate companies
hum...so Tein and Zeal ain't good, huh?
hey Dezoris...
which Bilstein shocks do u have? the one that original come with neuspeed springs? or the one with Bilstein springs? cuz...I saw two in the mag, and they looked different. And is Bilstein and koni the same company?
If I have chance to do it again, I'll go with eibach sportline and koni.:smoker2:
yes...if I'll ever have da kind of chance.....:D
No, actually the Tein/Zeal setups are onme of the best, but like Texan said, they are imports. I think this may be why they are hyped and over priced too.
It is the Neuspeed/Bilstein version, basically they are specially valved and threded Bilstein sports.
Koni and Bilstein are separate companies
Dezoris
01-16-2002, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by SilverY2KCivic
I read that same S/S article as well and was wondering from it, how are the Neuspeed coilovers? Stiff, loose, stock feeling like? Anyone know that can tell me?
I have a guy down the street from me who autoxs his 3 series.
He just got the PSS setup
http://www.bilstein.com/products/art/newad2.jpg
And to be honest, for the price they are very good.
Feels very similar to my setup, they tend to be bouncy/stiff, again your driving conditions have a lot to do with how they will react.
We are talking true "coilovers" here so, really I should be focusing on really the performance potential of many of these setups :)
Bottom line, if you don't race, I really don't think having double adjustable height adjustable shocks is really a good idea.
It is very hard to tune your suspension, when you get into all the variables, and by me, you ask if there is a shop that tunes suspensions and they look at you cross eyed. They will tell you "we can swap in a B16a" Great, but when I ask who they use to tune suspensions, they don't even know what I am talking about :( This seems to be a big problem in the industry?? So many people into getting power, and most of them are the ones throwing together sub par suspension setups.
Anyone with the same experience?
I read that same S/S article as well and was wondering from it, how are the Neuspeed coilovers? Stiff, loose, stock feeling like? Anyone know that can tell me?
I have a guy down the street from me who autoxs his 3 series.
He just got the PSS setup
http://www.bilstein.com/products/art/newad2.jpg
And to be honest, for the price they are very good.
Feels very similar to my setup, they tend to be bouncy/stiff, again your driving conditions have a lot to do with how they will react.
We are talking true "coilovers" here so, really I should be focusing on really the performance potential of many of these setups :)
Bottom line, if you don't race, I really don't think having double adjustable height adjustable shocks is really a good idea.
It is very hard to tune your suspension, when you get into all the variables, and by me, you ask if there is a shop that tunes suspensions and they look at you cross eyed. They will tell you "we can swap in a B16a" Great, but when I ask who they use to tune suspensions, they don't even know what I am talking about :( This seems to be a big problem in the industry?? So many people into getting power, and most of them are the ones throwing together sub par suspension setups.
Anyone with the same experience?
texan
01-16-2002, 01:47 AM
Originally posted by petzride
hum...so Tein and Zeal ain't good, huh?
Tein and Zeal are very good... depending upon what you want to spend and what you expect from the setup. IMO, the very first things you should nail down are these, once you know how much you've got to spend and what you are looking for, then and only then can you find something you'll be happy with the long haul.
Ps- Sportlines suck for serious performace use, they are looks only springs.
hum...so Tein and Zeal ain't good, huh?
Tein and Zeal are very good... depending upon what you want to spend and what you expect from the setup. IMO, the very first things you should nail down are these, once you know how much you've got to spend and what you are looking for, then and only then can you find something you'll be happy with the long haul.
Ps- Sportlines suck for serious performace use, they are looks only springs.
Someguy
01-16-2002, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by Dezoris
It is very hard to tune your suspension, when you get into all the variables, and by me, you ask if there is a shop that tunes suspensions and they look at you cross eyed. They will tell you "we can swap in a B16a" Great, but when I ask who they use to tune suspensions, they don't even know what I am talking about :( This seems to be a big problem in the industry?? So many people into getting power, and most of them are the ones throwing together sub par suspension setups.
Anyone with the same experience?
I have a pretty good shop for suspension, although not for Hondas, or at least they don't market to them. They do bump-steer adjustment (which is pretty hard to find), as well as corner weighting, aligning, and installations. As far as tuning shocks, I guess a shop could get them pretty close based on weight and spring rate, but beyond that I think its more driver preference, style, and/or the particular track.
BTW, it seems like most or all Honda coil over kits come with springs that the manufacturer selects. Is that the case? One of the big advantages for me running coil-overs on my non-Honda car is that I can order "custom" (or generic, depending on how you look at it) springs in what ever rate I choose. Or am I just not following it closely enough?
It is very hard to tune your suspension, when you get into all the variables, and by me, you ask if there is a shop that tunes suspensions and they look at you cross eyed. They will tell you "we can swap in a B16a" Great, but when I ask who they use to tune suspensions, they don't even know what I am talking about :( This seems to be a big problem in the industry?? So many people into getting power, and most of them are the ones throwing together sub par suspension setups.
Anyone with the same experience?
I have a pretty good shop for suspension, although not for Hondas, or at least they don't market to them. They do bump-steer adjustment (which is pretty hard to find), as well as corner weighting, aligning, and installations. As far as tuning shocks, I guess a shop could get them pretty close based on weight and spring rate, but beyond that I think its more driver preference, style, and/or the particular track.
BTW, it seems like most or all Honda coil over kits come with springs that the manufacturer selects. Is that the case? One of the big advantages for me running coil-overs on my non-Honda car is that I can order "custom" (or generic, depending on how you look at it) springs in what ever rate I choose. Or am I just not following it closely enough?
SilverY2KCivic
01-16-2002, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by Dezoris
I have a guy down the street from me who autoxs his 3 series.
He just got the PSS setup
http://www.bilstein.com/products/art/newad2.jpg
And to be honest, for the price they are very good.
Feels very similar to my setup, they tend to be bouncy/stiff, again your driving conditions have a lot to do with how they will react.
We are talking true "coilovers" here so, really I should be focusing on really the performance potential of many of these setups :)
Bottom line, if you don't race, I really don't think having double adjustable height adjustable shocks is really a good idea.
So with that said, are you saying that I'd be better off with say the Ground Control sleeves, and Tokico performance "blue" struts I've been originally considering, rather than the Neuspeed TRUE coilover setup, I was refering to in my post above? I would personally think that the Neuspeeds since they are all-in-one, would be better than a mix and match setup. :confused: But I'm no expert on this, so that's why I'm asking. ;) I just want to get a good setup on my car, that will feel pretty close to stock, or as close to it as possible, but still preform/look good. I'm only planning to lower my car between "1.5 and "1.8 if that makes any differance.
I have a guy down the street from me who autoxs his 3 series.
He just got the PSS setup
http://www.bilstein.com/products/art/newad2.jpg
And to be honest, for the price they are very good.
Feels very similar to my setup, they tend to be bouncy/stiff, again your driving conditions have a lot to do with how they will react.
We are talking true "coilovers" here so, really I should be focusing on really the performance potential of many of these setups :)
Bottom line, if you don't race, I really don't think having double adjustable height adjustable shocks is really a good idea.
So with that said, are you saying that I'd be better off with say the Ground Control sleeves, and Tokico performance "blue" struts I've been originally considering, rather than the Neuspeed TRUE coilover setup, I was refering to in my post above? I would personally think that the Neuspeeds since they are all-in-one, would be better than a mix and match setup. :confused: But I'm no expert on this, so that's why I'm asking. ;) I just want to get a good setup on my car, that will feel pretty close to stock, or as close to it as possible, but still preform/look good. I'm only planning to lower my car between "1.5 and "1.8 if that makes any differance.
Dezoris
01-16-2002, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by SilverY2KCivic
So with that said, are you saying that I'd be better off with say the Ground Control sleeves, and Tokico performance "blue" struts I've been originally considering, rather than the Neuspeed TRUE coilover setup, I was refering to in my post above? I would personally think that the Neuspeeds since they are all-in-one, would be better than a mix and match setup. :confused: But I'm no expert on this, so that's why I'm asking. ;) I just want to get a good setup on my car, that will feel pretty close to stock, or as close to it as possible, but still preform/look good. I'm only planning to lower my car between "1.5 and "1.8 if that makes any differance.
The GC sleeves and Tockicos will offer a better ride, for sure, but when comparing the bilsteins damping abilities specially valved for your applications and spring rates designed for your car, performance, and engineering, is on your side, and the ability to custom valve etc.
So if you are planning for the future, the Bilstein setup is something you will love (performance) I cant guage how you will like the ride, I like mine, a lot. If you go crazy an start racing every weeked, have them revalved and turned into double or triple adjustables. Then you'll be ready for anything.
So with that said, are you saying that I'd be better off with say the Ground Control sleeves, and Tokico performance "blue" struts I've been originally considering, rather than the Neuspeed TRUE coilover setup, I was refering to in my post above? I would personally think that the Neuspeeds since they are all-in-one, would be better than a mix and match setup. :confused: But I'm no expert on this, so that's why I'm asking. ;) I just want to get a good setup on my car, that will feel pretty close to stock, or as close to it as possible, but still preform/look good. I'm only planning to lower my car between "1.5 and "1.8 if that makes any differance.
The GC sleeves and Tockicos will offer a better ride, for sure, but when comparing the bilsteins damping abilities specially valved for your applications and spring rates designed for your car, performance, and engineering, is on your side, and the ability to custom valve etc.
So if you are planning for the future, the Bilstein setup is something you will love (performance) I cant guage how you will like the ride, I like mine, a lot. If you go crazy an start racing every weeked, have them revalved and turned into double or triple adjustables. Then you'll be ready for anything.
SilverY2KCivic
01-16-2002, 08:25 PM
Thanks for the info, Dezoris. :)
I'm not planning on aut X'ing or anything like that. Just some occasional "mountain romping," you know, like taking on some mountain roads, and some hard cornering as well, but nothing that I could see, to the extent of needing added adjustablility beyond single adjustables. How did you say the ride on the Neuspeed (Bilsteins) is for you? And what car do you have them mounted, onto? Thanks again. :cool:
I'm not planning on aut X'ing or anything like that. Just some occasional "mountain romping," you know, like taking on some mountain roads, and some hard cornering as well, but nothing that I could see, to the extent of needing added adjustablility beyond single adjustables. How did you say the ride on the Neuspeed (Bilsteins) is for you? And what car do you have them mounted, onto? Thanks again. :cool:
Dezoris
01-16-2002, 08:29 PM
http://www.dezoris.com/adjustableshock.jpg
Honda Civic, and I love the ride, abit bouncy on bad pavement, but the self adjusting shock method is great for daily driving the shocks do all the work, no guess work :)
Honda Civic, and I love the ride, abit bouncy on bad pavement, but the self adjusting shock method is great for daily driving the shocks do all the work, no guess work :)
SilverY2KCivic
01-17-2002, 12:16 AM
Cool then. :)
How much did you get your Neuspeed/Bilsteins for? I've seen them listed for about $899. =\
How much did you get your Neuspeed/Bilsteins for? I've seen them listed for about $899. =\
Dezoris
01-17-2002, 12:30 AM
1099 from shox.com.
wow that is a lot :(
I wish I had that money right now.
wow that is a lot :(
I wish I had that money right now.
petzride
01-17-2002, 01:20 AM
nonono.....yall missin my point..
I said Tein and Zeal ain't good on the ride comfort for daily drivin on street. Cuz...they are more like race setup, isn't it? I wasn't talkin about the performance cuz I don't race at all~~(I'm a good kid:D j/k).
I realized that these true coilovers are not for daily street drivin, but more like for racing. Am I right this time??? :)
I said Tein and Zeal ain't good on the ride comfort for daily drivin on street. Cuz...they are more like race setup, isn't it? I wasn't talkin about the performance cuz I don't race at all~~(I'm a good kid:D j/k).
I realized that these true coilovers are not for daily street drivin, but more like for racing. Am I right this time??? :)
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