Catsup, Pickles, and the Radical Left

Catsup, Pickles, and the Radical Left

by Paul R. Hollrah

Maria Teresa Thiersten Simoes-Ferreira Heinz Kerry was born in
Mozambique, the daughter of a Portuguese physician, and was educated in Switzerland and South Africa. Fluent in five languages, she was working as a United Nations interpreter in Geneva in the mid-60?s when she met a handsome young
American, H. John Heinz, III, who worked at a bank in Geneva. He told her his family was in the food business.

They were married in 1966 and returned to Pittsburgh where his family ran the giant H.J. Heinz food company. He was elected to the U.S. House of Representatives in 1971, and in 1976 he was elected to the first of three terms in the United States Senate.

Senator H. John Heinz was a friend of mine, not a close friend, not a golfing buddy, but a friend nonetheless. In 1991, he was killed when his plane collided with a helicopter over a Philadelphia suburb. He was survived by his wife, Teresa, and their three young sons.

Four years later, after inheriting Heinz's $500 million fortune, she
married Senator John Forbes Kerry, the liberal junior senator from
Massachusetts. She became a registered Democrat and the process of her radicalization was set in motion.

Heinz Kerry is not shy about telling people that she required Kerry to sign a pre-nuptial agreement before they were married. John Kerry may not have check-writing privileges on the Heinz catsup and pickle fortune, but he is certainly a willing and uncomplaining beneficiary of it. .
So how does Mrs. Heinz Kerry spend John Heinz's money? Just one example:

According to the G2 Bulletin, an online intelligence newsletter of
WorldNetDaily, in the years between 1995-2001 she gave more than $4 million to an organization called the Tides Foundation. And what does the Tides Foundation do with John Heinz's money?

a.. They support numerous anti-war groups, including Ramsey Clark's International Action Center. Clark has offered to defend Saddam Hussein when he's tried.

b.. They support the Democratic Justice Fund, a joint venture of the Tides Foundation and billionaire hate-monger George Soros. The Democratic Justice Fund seeks to ease restrictions on Muslim immigration from terrorist states.

c.. They support the Council for American-Islamic Relations, whose
leaders are known to have close ties to the terrorist group, Hamas.

d.. They support the National Lawyers Guild, organized as a
communist front during the Cold War era. One of their attorneys, Lynne Stewart, has been arrested for helping a client, Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, communicate with terror cells in Egypt. He is the convicted mastermind of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.

e.. They support Planned Parenthood, the National Abortion Rights Action League, and the Abortion Action Project.

f.. They support the most violent of all homosexual action groups,
ACT-UP.

g .. They support the Barrio Warriors, a radical Hispanic group
whose primary goal is to return all of Arizona, California, New Mexico, and Texas to Mexico.

These are but a few of the radical groups that benefit, through the anonymity provided by the Tides Foundation, from the generosity of our would-be first lady the wealthy widow of Republican senator John Heinz, and now the wife of the Democratic senator who aspires to be the 44th President of the
United States.

Note: Heinz has 57 of their plants and 72% of their employee's
working overseas.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Also...
A ex-crew man that lives down the road from a guy I know said that Mr. Kerry's crew referred to him as "Chicken **** John" in Nam. I know about his association with Hanoi Jane but I find it hard to believe that man's maintenance record for his boat in Nam. That thing stayed dry docked damn near his whole tour.
I'd like to know the facts about this thing and so far his service records ain't jiving with his memory. Maybe he just had a lemon in the world of boats.

Kerry is a douche bag, but I don't question his service record. Regardless of the quality if his equipment, he did his duty and served his time.













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"Note: Heinz has 57 of their plants and 72% of their employee's working overseas."

Heinz 57?

"Note: Heinz has 57 of their plants and 72% of their employee's working overseas."

Heinz 57?

:rofl: I missed that the first time













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Watching Kerry speak is just like watching Clinton. You just know he's lying through his teeth. I also find it weird how he threw his war medals on the ground after coming home from war when it was convenient, and now he wants to be known as a war hero, when it's convenient.

Blah.Seek out and talk up the dirt on the new contender,just goes to show how little positve there is for you to say about the old one.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i expected to read something about the RADICAL left, not some pissant wanna be looking for an opportunity. he's hardly anymore than a moderate for the masses.

though i hardly see whats wrong with supporting a womans right to an abortion, or a gay couples right to marry, or to trying to perserve the "innocent until proven guilty" clause in the constitution.

and whats this about him funding a group that MAY have ties with terrorists? your fave presidents daddy actually funded Bin laden directly, ands lets not forget rummy is the guy who sold hussien anthrax.

sure Kerry is a dead beat who shouldnt win the election. but so is Bush.

id like to see your sources on that information if you dont mind...

oh, and that radical thing you were throwing around...lets reserve that for people who are actually working for change

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i expected to read something about the RADICAL left, not some pissant wanna be looking for an opportunity. he's hardly anymore than a moderate for the masses.

though i hardly see whats wrong with supporting a womans right to an abortion, or a gay couples right to marry, or to trying to perserve the "innocent until proven guilty" clause in the constitution.

and whats this about him funding a group that MAY have ties with terrorists? your fave presidents daddy actually funded Bin laden directly, ands lets not forget rummy is the guy who sold hussien anthrax.

sure Kerry is a dead beat who shouldnt win the election. but so is Bush.

id like to see your sources on that information if you dont mind...

oh, and that radical thing you were throwing around...lets reserve that for people who are actually working for change

Words can't express how much I agree with all of the points you've made. :lol:

Watching Kerry speak is just like watching Clinton. You just know he's lying through his teeth.

Not just Clinton but Bush jr, Bush Sr, Reagan, Carter, man - if they weren't all politicians, I'd say you'd figured out something interesting.

I copied this from the Tides Foundation website

www.tidesfoundation.org[/url] ]
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Tides Foundation and Tides Center Statement Regarding Recent Scrutiny over Heinz Endowments

Date: March 11, 2004

Tides Foundation and Tides Center have come under attack in several opinion pieces recently appearing in media such as the The New York Post, The Wall Street Journal and The Washington Times, among others. The articles make false allegations relating specifically to Tides and the funding it receives from The Heinz Endowments, as well as Tides' support of a group called "September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows." The allegations are without merit, consisting entirely of errors and innuendo.

Here are the facts: The Heinz Endowments have granted Tides Foundation $230,000 dispensed between 1994 and 1998. These grants were used solely to support a pollution prevention initiative and other environmentally friendly practices by industries in Western Pennsylvania. Tides Center, an independent organization providing administrative and financial services to hundreds of projects across the country, has received additional support from The Heinz Endowments specifically to support projects in Pennsylvania. The vast majority of the projects funded through these endowments were related to either environmental protection or youth education. No Heinz- related money has gone to fund September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows. Teresa Heinz Kerry, the wife of Senator John Kerry, chairs The Howard Heinz Endowment and sits on Vira I. Heinz Endowment's board.

For the record, the Tides family of organizations is proud to provide support and services to Peaceful Tomorrows - a grassroots organization whose activities revolve around nonviolence and peaceful resolutions - through Tides Foundation, Tides Center, and Groundspring.org, an organization that provides training and web-based services for online fundraising. Tides Foundation has made four grants in 2002 and 2003 for a combined total of $34,665 to Peaceful Tomorrows. Peaceful Tomorrows has raised $19,097 through Groundspring.org since August, 2002.

Tides Foundation employs donor advised funds, the same financial vehicle administered in precisely the same way as the Fidelity Charitable Gift Fund and similar programs operated by Schwab, Vanguard, and more than 600 community foundations across the country. Tides works under the rigors of fund accounting, restricted grants, and annual audits, ensuring that all monies released by Tides are properly distributed and accounted for. Tides Center projects each raise funds for their individual program activities, with these funds being separately accounted for and administered. These funds are limited for the specific purposes for which they were given.

At Tides, our goal is a society based on fairness, equally shared economic opportunities, engaged and active citizens and environmental sustainability. In 2002 and 2003, Tides Foundation made more than 6,000 separate grants to nonprofit organizations totaling more than $100 million and Tides Center provides over 250 emerging projects with support services. Our work speaks for itself in the range of program activities that supports a diverse array of organizations working on projects from human rights to disaster relief and youth education.

Contact: Christopher J. Herrera
Tides Foundation
P: 415-561-6355
[email protected]


http://www.tidesfoundation.org/press_rel_04.cfm

...and THIS communist questions GWB and DC on their integrity?

'I didn't throw away my medals."

What is it with the Dems that they don't know the meaning of "is" and "lie"?

Not just Clinton but Bush jr, Bush Sr, Reagan, Carter, man - if they weren't all politicians, I'd say you'd figured out something interesting.
That is bullshiite! Where did the Bushes lie? ..or Reagan? There is a big difference between a lie and a mistake.

While I believe that Carter was an honest, and moral man, his problem was just that he was an idiot.

Watching Kerry speak is just like watching Clinton. You just know he's lying through his teeth.
Yeah you can tell because their mouths are moving.
I also find it weird how he threw his war medals on the ground after coming home from war when it was convenient, and now he wants to be known as a war hero, when it's convenient.
Clinton and Kerry are both the same in that respect as well. They are great opportunists. They see when the right time is for every devious thing they do. Kerry isn't so much of a skirt chaser though. (I don't think...wouldn't shock me though after all he IS a magot)

That is bullshiite! Where did the Bushes lie? ..or Reagan? There is a big difference between a lie and a mistake.


LMFAO :iceslolan

Are you serious???

You must be one of them hardcore party-hacks that can't see the forest for the trees.

How about we start with the one that still galls me to this day: Bush's 2000 campaign calling Senator, and ironically, fellow Republican, John McCain, a Manchurian Candidate. Are you going to tell me that that was the truth?

BTW, I just missed the Senator's appearance at Border's Books, at the Biltmore last Saturday - dammit. I wanted his autograph.

I lost a lot of faith in the integrity, leadership, and direction of the Republican Party, when they decided to let a former panty-waist party-boy become their candidate, over a REAL war-hero, and POW, to boot. And why? You may ask? Because he's Daddy's son, and he's got plenty of oil-money to boost the party, and buy the election for the Repubs.

Do you think the 2000 elections would have been as close as it was, with Sen. McCain opposite Al Snore?

Are you serious???
Actually YES! Yes I am.

How about we start with the one that still galls me to this day: Bush's 2000 campaign calling Senator, and ironically, fellow Republican, John McCain, a Manchurian Candidate. Are you going to tell me that that was the truth?
First of all I never heard him do any name calling. Second of all....name calling and lying are two different things. (it was IF it happened probably tongue in cheek) Third of all....I don't see how anyone...ANYONE...could be a fan of a REAL hero like John McCain and utter the name of John Kerry from the same mouth. Speaking the name of John Kerry nearly makes ME vomit!!

I lost a lot of faith in the integrity, leadership, and direction of the Republican Party,.....

....Do you think the 2000 elections would have been as close as it was, with Sen. McCain opposite Al Snore?
I don't understand how you can blast GB and support a man cut from the same cloth as the most evil man who has ever hold political office. Even if I was not a fan of GB I could NEVER vote Dem. as it is the party of Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton made the US the laughing stock of the world with his idiotic escapades!

Actually YES! Yes I am.


First of all I never heard him do any name calling. Second of all....name calling and lying are two different things. (it was IF it happened probably tongue in cheek) Third of all....I don't see how anyone...ANYONE...could be a fan of a REAL hero like John McCain and utter the name of John Kerry from the same mouth. Speaking the name of John Kerry nearly makes ME vomit!!


I don't understand how you can blast GB and support a man cut from the same cloth as the most evil man who has ever hold political office. Even if I was not a fan of GB I could NEVER vote Dem. as it is the party of Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton made the US the laughing stock of the world with his idiotic escapades!

Way to ignore the article refuting your opening statement, bucko :icon16:

Now I have heard some pretty hardcore rhetoric thrown around in this forum, but you take the cake. It's only natural to view ones own political choice as the good guy, and the other guy as the bad guy, that's what election propaganda is all about, but I think you're taking it a bit too seriously. It's impossible to ignore the fact that Bush has been lying through his teeth for the last year at least about Iraq. I don't care how much you idolize the man, it just can't be done. Mistakes are made, but remember, he had clearcut indisputable evidence, he knew EXACTLY where those weapons are, they had mobile biological weapons, missiles tipped with chemical weapons aimed at Israel, stockpiles of anthrax around every corner, etc...

I don't see how you can equate Clinton or Kerry as being personally worse than Bush, considering you don't know any of them, and the opinions you form of them are based on carefully crafted PR work, which is specifically designed to manipulate your opinion.

Seriously, take it easy, or you might have a heart attack ;)

clinton made us the laughing stock? maybe

W made us the scorn of the world? definately. he's the only president in history to have the total and complete sympathy of the world community one year, and then throw it all away the next in the name of jingoistic foregn policy and "with us or against us" unilateral BS.

and just one case when daddy bush lied "read my lips, no new taxes" talk about laughing stock.

like Cbass said, ditch the rhetoric, think for yourself, look at the facts and develop your own argument, not one born of the political mudslinging system

ditch the rhetoric, think for yourself, look at the facts and develop your own argument, not one born of the political mudslinging system
"Kettle, this is Pot. Your black!"
You poor liberal sheep!

Hmmm, Clinton made us look bad to the rest of the world? Are you suggesting Baby Bush hasn't done so either?

"Kettle, this is Pot. Your black!"
You poor liberal sheep!

who said i was a liberal?

oh, and develop a better retort than "liberal sheep" for when someone catches you swallowing what the media tells you and accepting it as pure truth. It would appear that that line is standard GOP proceedure when they begin to lose is to simply call the opposition a liberal sheep, and call them niave, and then childish and idealistic, and then anti freedom.

i will defend myself this one time against a personal attack such as this, and that will have to suffice.

I am a philosophy major. as such, i think it is self evident that i am in search of truth and wisdom, not just political rhetoric slinging. you'll notice that i blast kerry as much as bush, if not more. I think both men are horrible canidates for office, for many of the same reasons. I back no canidate for office, at all, and as such will be casting my vote for Nader in an effort to build awareness that this country is in dire need of more than two parties to succeed.

as far as personal political belief, i am an anarchist (no, not one of those idealistics punks you ran in to in highschool, but a philisophical anarchist, it just fits so well with existentialism) thats about as far from liberal as one can get. its like a libertarian on steroids. as far as i can tell, i should be calling you the liberal.

you may feel free to remove your foot from your mouth now, and continue on in your blind loyalty to the GOP

"Kettle, this is Pot. Your black!"
You poor liberal sheep!

Ok, he asks you to cool the rhetoric, and you respond with more...

If all you can do is post bogus stories and call names, maybe this forum is not the place for you.

Kerry is a Frekin Idiot

then we'll just add you to the list of people who think so, yet provide no reason to think so, and in doing so add evidence to the case that people are more concerned with rhetoric than actual argument

then we'll just add you to the list of people who think so, yet provide no reason to think so, and in doing so add evidence to the case that people are more concerned with rhetoric than actual argument

I think it's back to the age old Country music argument, it's a matter of opinion whether it's good or bad. A great many people say it's good, although they can't explain why. Just like how a great many people say Kerry is bad, but can only seem to come up with the answer that he married a rich woman, and that he was adamantly opposed to the war in Vietnam...

Marrying someone with money is not uncommon for politicians, someone has to foot the bills, and to be honest, most politicians aren't doing too badly themselves.

Many soldiers were against the war in Vietnam. Many people who were against the war in Vietnam didn't go. Kerry did, and he served his time, and won medals. Not just a Purple Heart for being wounded in combat, but three of them. On top of that, both a Bronze and a Silver star, which are medals of valour.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp

Vote Ralph.

Vote Ralph.

AMEN!!!!

I don't see how you can equate Clinton or Kerry as being personally worse than Bush, considering you don't know any of them, and the opinions you form of them are based on carefully crafted PR work, which is specifically designed to manipulate your opinion.

Seriously, take it easy, or you might have a heart attack ;)

In that case, your opinion of Bush is also sorely founded, thus making it irrelevant. :naughty:

In that case, your opinion of Bush is also sorely founded, thus making it irrelevant. :naughty:

My opinion of Bush is based on his actions, not what I perceive to be his character.

Bush is widely perceived as a not very intelligent man, and I have two theories about this.

One, he really is an idiot, and his dad bought his way through life, including getting him into Yale, and getting him into a position of power in the GOP.

Two, he just uses that as a ploy to indear himself to stupid voters, of whom there are many... Ya know, I'm just the down-home salt of the earth god fearing guy, not some east coast fancy pants boy like Kerry or Gore! I might not be the smartest guy around, but I'm sure I can handle the job!

Personally, I think it's a mix of the two, but I can't really form a concrete opinion either way. Even with a rich powerful daddy, it's hard to get into Yale, you need good SAT scores to do it. That being said, he screws up about a third of the speeches he makes, and at times it's obvious when he pauses that he's being fed a line through an earbud.

exactly

not everyone that is anti bush is that way becuase we think he's stupid.

its easy to look at his service record and despize him just as easily.

in fact, lets take a look at it:

He's broken more international treaties than any other president.

He' apointent more convicted criminals to the administration than any other president. and is the only president with a criminal record himself

He's the only president to get the US removed from the human rights commision of the UN.

He single handidly garned the most world sympathy the US have ever enjoyed, and then made the US (in less than a year) the most hated nation in the world. Not suprisingly he also holds the record for most simultanious protests against any one person in history.

He attacked and occupied two soveriegn nations against the will of the world community (making us the rogue nation he claimed to be fighting) and then blatantly LIED to his people and the world in the state of the union address as to his reasons for doing so.

He cut health care benefits to veterans and supported a cut in active duty benefits to troops and their families, while we were at war.

he is the first president to have a majoriy of europeans (71%) view him and his foriegn policy as the largest security threat in the world.

he has logged the most vacation time of any president in history.

He used private Enron and haliburton jets when trying to fight his case before the supreme court, and then made sure less money was spent investigating BOTH claims of corruption levied against those companies than was spent investigating the private affairs of our past president.

and thats just a sampling. all of this information is available on Yahoo, MSNBC, Fox News (of all places) CNN, and BBC websites.

Ah, but that doesn't compare to Clinton, who slept with an intern, and then lied about it under oath. That automatically makes him one hundred times worse, at the very least.

Hey, want to know why Bush hasn't been caught lying under oath? Because he won't testify under oath.

Hey, want to know why Bush hasn't been caught lying under oath? Because he won't testify under oath.
He never LIED! There is no need for him to testify under oath.

Making mistakes are not the same as lying.

Everything Bush has done he has done in the best interests of the nation. Bill Clinton ONLY did what he perceived was in the best interest of his libido!

He never LIED! There is no need for him to testify under oath.

Making mistakes are not the same as lying.

Everything Bush has done he has done in the best interests of the nation. Bill Clinton ONLY did what he perceived was in the best interest of his libido!

And I will repeat what I have said, time and time again:

"Informed voters are bad for Bush's campaign."

^ There's my proof.

God, man. You'll sacrifice the country and your freedom for the sake of a Liberal oil baron -- what did America ever do to you?

Add thegladhatter to my list of people who should be excused from the electoral process.While he clearly genuinely believes that he is doing the right thing,he obviously has absolutely no idea about the realities of politics.Mr Bush is going to have to find a hell of a lot more naive and gullible patriots like gladhatter if he is ever going to get a second chance at screwing the American public.

Its really entertaining reading the people here who believe that if you plan on voting for Bush you are somehow uninformed or being decieved. :lol:

thegladdhatter - your opinion is gruff but stay with it. Don't read to much into the haters around here, most of the stuff is like a stuck record which, like I just said, is entertaining at times.

-------------

not everyone that is anti bush is that way becuase we think he's stupid.

its easy to look at his service record and despize him just as easily.

Which is anyones perogative


in fact, lets take a look at it:

Yes lets. I just hope its not that same tired list of drivel started by democraticunderground.org


He's broken more international treaties than any other president.

Good grief, its starting out with that list.

Just as a reminder the treaties most often mentioned (and pretty much the only ones) are ABM and Kyoto. Kyoto was never (and won't be) ratified by the congress so there is no treaty. ABM was with the Soviet Union. I happy await the Soviet Unions response to this.

He' apointent more convicted criminals to the administration than any other president. and is the only president with a criminal record himself

Yup - its the list. :disappoin

He's the only president to get the US removed from the human rights commision of the UN.

He got us removed.... Think about that for a minute. The UN had nothing to do with it. They saw who the president was and then said - your not allowed here, but Lybia is going to be there. Even though we know they are a terrorist state by our own definition, we want them in charge. Right - good one :rolleyes:

He single handidly garned the most world sympathy the US have ever enjoyed, and then made the US (in less than a year) the most hated nation in the world. Not suprisingly he also holds the record for most simultanious protests against any one person in history.

Left wing drivel. It doesn't matter about whats right or wrong, it only matters what people think (sympathy or protests). Its funny to think that anyone thinks that sympathy matters.


He attacked and occupied two soveriegn nations against the will of the world community (making us the rogue nation he claimed to be fighting) and then blatantly LIED to his people and the world in the state of the union address as to his reasons for doing so.

We have to get the permission of the world to act? :disappoin When did the world say not to go to Afghanistan or Iraq? Oh wait, I'll hear a ton of stuff about Iraq. Lets leave that one alone for now. Just tell me about the world said not to go to Afghanistan. Tell me how its being occupied? (again - save Iraq for another thread because it'll be a long one)

'Blatenly lied' is nothing but the creative use of synonyms.

He cut health care benefits to veterans and supported a cut in active duty benefits to troops and their families, while we were at war.

This uses the same logic as most democrats use when talking about social security. They call for a 10% increase. They get 6% and then cry about the 4% cut that the president called for. Pathetic.


he is the first president to have a majoriy of europeans (71%) view him and his foriegn policy as the largest security threat in the world.

:rofl: The Europeans don't seem much worried about what our opinion of them is, forgive me for not much caring about theirs.

he has logged the most vacation time of any president in history.

Good for him. I wish I could take more.

He used private Enron and haliburton jets when trying to fight his case before the supreme court, and then made sure less money was spent investigating BOTH claims of corruption levied against those companies than was spent investigating the private affairs of our past president.

How did he make sure? So, in this opinion, the amount of money used in an investigation is what determines its effectiveness, not the actual facts. :rolleyes:

and thats just a sampling. all of this information is available on Yahoo, MSNBC, Fox News (of all places) CNN, and BBC websites.

This list is not available on any of those web sites. Its a complilation of opinions by someone who hates the president. They use selective facts and a mediocre use of synonyms to create a bullet list of garbage. The thing that dissapoints me most is that people will take a list like this at face value and believe it.













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"the list" is a compilation of facts (granted, with a liberal twist) that are all available on said websites.

sure, alot of it doesnt seem cool, like "why do we have to wait for the rest of the world to act?"

good point, we shouldnt have to, but when we are using that very reasoning (they are a rogue nation) to attack them, it kinda makes us hypocrits.

and so what if the europeans dont like us?

good point again, who gives a fuck what they think right? well, when we are claiming that so and so is the largest threat to world security, it kinda puts a damper in our argument when 71% percent of Europe says...um no, you are.

and afganistan...hm gee, where to start. oh wait, the world said yes go ahead and remove the taliban (damn good idea acually, didnt like those guys) but the world was, and still is totally against our continued occupation of afganistan. dont think we're still there? just browse the CNN website, theres plenty of evidence there.

yea, you may think that it doesnt matter what the world thinks of us. and it really shouldnt, im with you there. but the fact of the matter is that it does. the willingness of other countries to trade with us and to take us seriously depends on how they view us. and if they view us as war mongerers, its not gonna happen...especially when we sit around and bitch about how the EU is unfair because they are dropping the value of the dollar. if we were better liked, they might care, but as it stands they have taken a "tough shit" attitude towards us, and its our own damn fault.

you may be an american isolationist, and actually believe that Bush has done some good for this country, thats fine. the fact is we cant afford to be isolationists, and our world image is important.

id really like to see "the list" of what bush has actually done for this country...

though ill go ahead and close with a few of my own additions to "the list"

he squandered the only budget surplus in 150 years

he promised an increase in funds to schools in his "no child left behind" campaign, and then failed to carry through in any substantial way.

Im not saying Kerry will be any better. at least we all know where Bush stands. but honestly, if bush and kerry are the best we can do, its time for america to place its head between its legs, and kiss its ass goodbye.

your opinion is gruff but stay with it.
Gruff is hardly the appropriate word... When I hear somebody say that GW Bush never lied, I think about Weapons of Mass Destruction.
They may as well be saying that Clinton never lied. Come on now! Honestly, when he said that he had never had sexual relations with that women, he was telling the truth! He didn't "know" he was, it was just like when bush said Iraq had WMDs, he didn't "know" they that they didn't - come on now, just a mistake not a lie :icon16:

"the list" is a compilation of facts (granted, with a liberal twist) that are all available on said websites.

sure, alot of it doesnt seem cool, like "why do we have to wait for the rest of the world to act?"

good point, we shouldnt have to, but when we are using that very reasoning (they are a rogue nation) to attack them, it kinda makes us hypocrits.

and so what if the europeans dont like us?

good point again, who gives a fuck what they think right? well, when we are claiming that so and so is the largest threat to world security, it kinda puts a damper in our argument when 71% percent of Europe says...um no, you are.



Such language. Again, because a large percentage of muslims believe that women should be wearing burkas does that mean all women should? The point being, the results you speak of are from a loaded question.


and afganistan...hm gee, where to start. oh wait, the world said yes go ahead and remove the taliban (damn good idea acually, didnt like those guys) but the world was, and still is totally against our continued occupation of afganistan. dont think we're still there? just browse the CNN website, theres plenty of evidence there.

I did a search on CNN for 'afghanistan occupation' and low and behold, after going throug the first six pages of documents in reverse date order, I could find nothing about the world being totally against the occupation of Afghanistan. So, it seems that you did not do your research before wipping out another 'fact' :disappoin


yea, you may think that it doesnt matter what the world thinks of us. and it really shouldnt, im with you there. but the fact of the matter is that it does. the willingness of other countries to trade with us and to take us seriously depends on how they view us. and if they view us as war mongerers, its not gonna happen...especially when we sit around and bitch about how the EU is unfair because they are dropping the value of the dollar. if we were better liked, they might care, but as it stands they have taken a "tough shit" attitude towards us, and its our own damn fault.

I don't bitch about the EU being unfair. I don't really care all that much. Its just funny how people will bark out numbers that XX% of Europeans think this of us and we are the bad guys for it. But, if a poll says XX% of Americans think the French (or whoever) are evil, its again our fault for thinking that way and not the French's (or whoever) fault.

you may be an american isolationist, and actually believe that Bush has done some good for this country, thats fine. the fact is we cant afford to be isolationists, and our world image is important.

I am not an isolationist. Any time on this board will tell you that. In fact, how you come up with an isolationist label from just this thread means you should look up the definition of the word. Just as a quick refresher, it would be someone who wants nothing to do with the rest of the world in politics or economics.


id really like to see "the list" of what bush has actually done for this country...

though ill go ahead and close with a few of my own additions to "the list"

he squandered the only budget surplus in 150 years

he promised an increase in funds to schools in his "no child left behind" campaign, and then failed to carry through in any substantial way.

Im not saying Kerry will be any better. at least we all know where Bush stands. but honestly, if bush and kerry are the best we can do, its time for america to place its head between its legs, and kiss its ass goodbye.

Congress has been squandering money forever, no president has much control as people give them credit for. The only reason that there was a surplus anyway was not because of anyones fiscal restraint, it was simply the tax reciepts actually getting ahead of the spenders for once. Until their is a congress that actually cuts the budget - not cut the amount of the increases, we will forever be running deficits but the few odd years the CBO miscalculates how much money will be taken in.

150 Billion more money is not substantial? I wish I had those kind of unsubstantial dollars in my account :rolleyes:

Feel free to put your head wherever you like. Pessimists will never see any hope in anything anyway.













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Add thegladhatter to my list of people who should be excused from the electoral process.While he clearly genuinely believes that he is doing the right thing,he obviously has absolutely no idea about the realities of politics.Mr Bush is going to have to find a hell of a lot more naive and gullible patriots like gladhatter if he is ever going to get a second chance at screwing the American public.
You are soooo wrong my friend. Why is it that liberals can be so vitriolic but conservatives must shut up, put their hands in their pockets and put up with their crap? I worry about the logic of our great nation. It is truly scary and sad when we have so many who feel we should just bow down and take what the world dishes out to us as a nation.

Go ahead knock down our WTC. Destroy our Pentagon. Kill thousands of our people. If you don't want to...then just give aid and comfort to those who do. We are okay with that. We will just wring our hands and timidly go about the business of....heck I don't know...living?

George Bush stands for courage and commitment. John Kerry stands for cowardice and waffles.

George Bush stands for courage? In what way?
George doesn't seem like a coward to me, but I'd never call him "courageous"
Kerry doesn't seem to be a coward either, don't know where you got that idea from... don't care to find out either. Stand for waffles? Maybe he does. George likes pancakes. You've got to define your differences if you're going to set yourself apart from the other guy.

You are soooo wrong my friend. Why is it that liberals can be so vitriolic but conservatives must shut up, put their hands in their pockets and put up with their crap? I worry about the logic of our great nation. It is truly scary and sad when we have so many who feel we should just bow down and take what the world dishes out to us as a nation.

Go ahead knock down our WTC. Destroy our Pentagon. Kill thousands of our people. If you don't want to...then just give aid and comfort to those who do. We are okay with that. We will just wring our hands and timidly go about the business of....heck I don't know...living?

George Bush stands for courage and commitment. John Kerry stands for cowardice and waffles.

Heard it all before,still doesn't ring true.At least Yogs doesn't resort to theatrical histrionics.

Never mind. I figured it out now, I know how George was courageous...
He courageously lied to his nation, so he could courageously waste tax payers money courageously beating up the scumbucket leader of a third world country, while courageously FAILING to bring those to justice responsible for the 911 attacks.
Is this why GWB stands for courage?

we still have soldiers in afganistan right?

hence, occupation.

and ok, the isolationst thing was a little much, but your attitude of "who cares what any other country thinks" is a bit ridiculous no?

and was it 15 billion actually given to schools? or promised? cuz i know my former highschool sure didnt recieve a dime more than they had been four years ago. niether did any highschool within 50 miles of mine. and they are some of the most needy in the nation.

im still waiting on that list of what worthwhile things W has actually done (and no, "saving us from terrorists" doesnt count, i still dont feel any safer knowing bin laden STILL HASNT BEEN CAUGHT)

They may as well be saying that Clinton never lied.

That's where you're wrong, Clinton never lied... he merely stated the facts as he saw them! :D

we still have soldiers in afganistan right?

hence, occupation.

and ok, the isolationst thing was a little much, but your attitude of "who cares what any other country thinks" is a bit ridiculous no?

and was it 15 billion actually given to schools? or promised? cuz i know my former highschool sure didnt recieve a dime more than they had been four years ago. niether did any highschool within 50 miles of mine. and they are some of the most needy in the nation.

im still waiting on that list of what worthwhile things W has actually done (and no, "saving us from terrorists" doesnt count, i still dont feel any safer knowing bin laden STILL HASNT BEEN CAUGHT)

Nobody said that the US wasn't in Afgahnistan. However the claim that its an occupation is wrong and the claim that the whole world is against it was wrong.

Its equally ridiculous to use ambiguous poll numbers from a foreign country to prove a point.

Blame your state not the federal goverment for any misappropriations of the money. Considering the track record for the claims I've heard so far, you'll forgive me for not taking your word for it that you checked all the high schools in your area to see the makeup of their funding for the last fiscal year. :rolleyes:

I'm not going to take the time to build a list. Its not worth my time.













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lets see....the, oh, i dunno, the chinese stick some soldiers over here? occupation of america? attempted at least. i dont think they would last long, but, well, you get the point.

and considering that im from texas, yea, that be a large part of the problem.

and yes, it is worth your time, because really, i have yet to see any good bush has achieved for this nation on the whole. at least enough to out weigh his huge problems, like lieing to us. repeatedly. about things more important than sex.

[QUOTE=lazysmurff]lets see....the, oh, i dunno, the chinese stick some soldiers over here? occupation of america? attempted at least. i dont think they would last long, but, well, you get the point.

[QUOTE]

No, but thanks to Clinton's lies and dealings the Chinese now have the ability to hit us anywhere they want with a nuclear missile. Treason is a lot bigger offense than using suspected false intelligence. Get oever it. Your points are not to be prioven because they can't be. The whole hate case against Bush is assumptions and propaganda.

The whole hate case against Bush is assumptions and propaganda.
LOL

And the one against Kerry isn't?

Propaganda is done both ways, and works both ways. One half is to make the person it's for look better (emphasis on look), while the other half works on making the opposing side look worse.

C'mon man, you should know better. You don't, but you should.

LOL

And the one against Kerry isn't?

Propaganda is done both ways, and works both ways. One half is to make the person it's for look better (emphasis on look), while the other half works on making the opposing side look worse.

C'mon man, you should know better. You don't, but you should.

Kerry has everything to prove and Bush doesn't. Kerry doesn't even know what he stands for, much less would the opposition be able to propagade it.

Kerry has everything to prove and Bush doesn't. Kerry doesn't even know what he stands for, much less would the opposition be able to propagade it.
I don't know if you're looking for propagate, or propagandize.

Don't know about you, but it sounds like Bush's campaign's strategery is working with you.

As for Bush not having to prove anything, you are right. He's already done and proven everything he needs to prove, and his current approval ratings reflect that, even if Kerry is the one he's being compared against.

Which one is it? Did he lie, or did he make a "mistake"? In which case, showing a general lack of control over his cabinet...

lol....I looked back at that and knew I should have spell-checked it.

Its obvious he made a mistake. Him lying would mean that he intentionally was trying to start a war. I don't care how conservative people take him for, no president would EVER intentionally start a war. There would be an absolute outrage in the US if the people actually thought Bush intentionally tried to start this war. And judging by his approval ratings, it is obvious there is much left to do in Iraq, but the American people are still with Bush.

You people just discount every reason you are given!! You NEVER accept any argument other than the ones YOU post.


"Kettle, this is Pot. Your black!"


Got to laugh at this guy....the blackest pot in the forum,calling us kettles one-eyed... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

There would be an absolute outrage in the US if the people actually thought Bush intentionally tried to start this war.

did you miss the millions of people all over the country, marching in the streets for months before we went into Iraq?

not to mention the world?

i really dont understand where or why my "points" are unfounded. i still have yet to see a list of what Bush has done for this country, and i cant really think of anything he has done that has actually benefited this country. and i sure as hell wasnt defending clinton.

and look, there is no hate for Bush. i dont hate the man, i hate his policies. and no, its not built on propoganda. did he attack a nation that hadnt attacked us? yes. did he knowingly use false information to justify doing so? yes. did he and his administration commit serious acts of hypocrisy leading up to and during the war? (including tell turkey that they were impeeding the progress of democracy by listening to 90% of their population in choosing not to support our attack of Iraq) yes.

none of that is propoganda, just fact. and that (plus several other things) is why i dislike his policies, and would prefer if he didnt win the upcomming election.

really now, where is that list?

did you miss the millions of people all over the country, marching in the streets for months before we went into Iraq?

Millions? I think you're exaggerating. There were far from millions marching in this country. Maybe if you factor in all the protestors across the globe you may get close to a million or 2.

I'd say millions within this country, I know in my state, there was a rally, that had about 40,000 people at the capitol - now imagine 40,000 discontent people in each of the fifty states, that's well over a million. Though I doubt that places like Wyoming were going to 40,000 people at a protest, but there are states larger than wyoming, and larger than mine where such a thing could happen, but with even more people. It would not surprise me if over a million people actively protested against the war (in the U.S.A.).
It would also not surprise me if the the amount of protesters outside of the U.S. numbered several million.

I'd say millions within this country, I know in my state, there was a rally, that had about 40,000 people at the capitol - now imagine 40,000 discontent people in each of the fifty states, that's well over a million. Though I doubt that places like Wyoming were going to 40,000 people at a protest, but there are states larger than wyoming, and larger than mine where such a thing could happen, but with even more people. It would not surprise me if over a million people actively protested against the war (in the U.S.A.).
It would also not surprise me if the the amount of protesters outside of the U.S. numbered several million.
I don't know why I said 1 or 2 million globally I know it was more than that. Probably b/c I was in a hurry and not thinking. How do they tally the number of people at protests anyway, I've never figured that out?

I'm not sure. I guess one way is they could count how many flyers they handed out to people that came to join the group.

there were over a million just in NYC and san fran had that many as well. gloabally, on the largest day of protests, there were over 15 million world wide.

There have been 15 million people protest in favor of Nazism, what's you point? Just people protest something doesn't mean its wrong.

Point is,pick goes into total and blank denial when faced with a truth that he can't handle.A lot of people don't like Bush or his policies,can't you just deal with that instead of pulling out some irrelevant crap about nazis?