11 second mustang?

I've been looking to build an 11 second fox body mustang. I've explored most options including swapping in a carbed motor and working from there. But I've just decided that I'd keep the stock 5.0 and build on that. I don't want to use NOS nor turbo. I was thinking of going supercharged..I have in mind the vortech s-trim. I'm not sure how far that and bolt ons will get me. so what internals would be beneficial? thanks.

I am running an S-Trim. It will put you into the 11s with no prob. Hyper or forged pistons.
36lbs injectors.
2.95 pulley 12lbs of boost 93 octane
Aftermarket ignition
77mm Pro M
Tweecer (So you can tune the darn thing)
3.73 or 3.55
70mm TB
Good set of alum heads(AFR 185, TFS, Eldebrocks, etc)
9.5:1
Tremec
T-Rex
Long tube Headers


Weld up your torque boxes
Some suspension mods, and you are good to go. My 87 is set up that for the most part. When she grips, it goes fast:)

Why don't you want to go Turbo?

I prefer the Blower myself just because it provides power right off idle ussually.

I prefer the Blower myself just because it provides power right off idle ussually.

Wrong. The only kind of blower that will provide that kind of low end torque is a roots/twin screw blower. The KB twin screws are non-intercooled so they arn't going very fast, and roots are just poor designs so I wouldn't waste my time with them. Comparing a centrifugal blower (vortech/paxton/procharger, etc) to a turbocharger the turbocharger GREATLY outpowers the blower on the low end. A turbo as big as a T76 Q-trim can be seeing 1 bar of boost at 3000-3300 RPM's, while a centrifugal does not reach full boost right till redline.

Check this out for a comparison.

http://www.dynopro.com/images/graphs/DynoGraph_Mustang_Zerban90.gif

Specs on this motor: 408 cubic inches, a vortech J-Trim CENTRIFUGAL blower, 16 pounds of boost.

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/2dc488c4/bc/Yahoo!+Photo+Album/19+psi+50+50+race+pump+gas+mix.jpg?phKfbhABI1BfRk4 J

Specs on this motor: 357 cubic inches, a Turbonetics T76 Q-trim Turbo, 19 pounds of boost.

Turbo car outpowers centrifugal car by a sold 200 RWTQ, has a much flatter and more broad powerband, and even outpowers the blower car down low, even though it has a 51 inch displacement disadvantage.

Wrong. The only kind of blower that will provide that kind of low end torque is a roots/twin screw blower. The KB twin screws are non-intercooled so they arn't going very fast, and roots are just poor designs so I wouldn't waste my time with them. Comparing a centrifugal blower (vortech/paxton/procharger, etc) to a turbocharger the turbocharger GREATLY outpowers the blower on the low end. A turbo as big as a T76 Q-trim can be seeing 1 bar of boost at 3000-3300 RPM's, while a centrifugal does not reach full boost right till redline.

The Kenne Bell's for the 4.6's can be had in water-cooled set-up I believe...

Wrong. The only kind of blower that will provide that kind of low end torque is a roots/twin screw blower. The KB twin screws are non-intercooled so they arn't going very fast, and roots are just poor designs so I wouldn't waste my time with them. Comparing a centrifugal blower (vortech/paxton/procharger, etc) to a turbocharger the turbocharger GREATLY outpowers the blower on the low end. A turbo as big as a T76 Q-trim can be seeing 1 bar of boost at 3000-3300 RPM's, while a centrifugal does not reach full boost right till redline.

I agree. Also if automatic, with a high stall like 3,000-3500 you'll see hell a boost from the turbo right off the line.

well, i'm kind of intimidated of a turbo because i hear they're a alot of work to keep up. but uh..how do turbo mustangs sound? do they sound like your average turbo import? or do they still sound like a american muscle?

ok, i do not own 1, but i have fallen in love with the kenne bell twin-screw blower. it might be a good idea for some of you gues to check out the site...

www.kennebell.net

because there is a LOT of info there. in short, the KB for a 4.6 can fun 6lbs of boost w/o an intercooler. supposidly it can run 351rwhp, but im sure those #s come with a lot of tuning. if you want higher HP, than you can go with 9-13 lbs, but those pulley's need the assistance of an intercooler, which KB offers. check out the #s on the site, im sure they are "upped" a little, but doesnt every other site do the same?

the main boast of KB is that max psi is obtained by 2000rpm, which means that even if you're runnin down low, you just have to step on it to feel the power, not downshift. if any1 wants to complain about something here, ok.

The Kenne Bell's for the 4.6's can be had in water-cooled set-up I believe...

Yes, the KB's for the 99+ GT's and the bolt on kits for 03 cobras can be had intercooled, but this guy has a fox so I was refering to 5.0/5.8 kits.


well, i'm kind of intimidated of a turbo because i hear they're a alot of work to keep up. but uh..how do turbo mustangs sound? do they sound like your average turbo import? or do they still sound like a american muscle?

Maintainance on my turbo car isn't any more or less work than on a vortech car. Sure, after driving hard you should sit with the car and idle for a while, but that can be solved with a turbo timer easily. The turbo quiets down the exhaust a fair but, but there is still no mistaking the sound of a thumpy cam inside a V8. It just sounds like a jet engine as soon as you get on it.

You can instal a complete S-Trim in a weekend with just hand tools. The cost is about the same once eveything is said and done.

If your looking at just 11s, I would lean towards the S-Trim.

well thats one thing that scares me..if i go S-trim and get into the 11s i'm going to want 10s. and blowers aren't really that great to upgrade. you kind got what you got. but then with a turbo...i'd always be cranking up the boost because '..i just need to go a little faster' and end up blowing my engine. this might sound stupid but also when i think of a mustang i don't exactly think of turbochargers..and i don't know if i'd like hearing a blow off valve everytime i shift gears..that's more like an import thing. and okay...i assume boosted has a turbo mustang...and skylineusa has an s-trim mustang. which of you guys is in the 11s?

I run turbos on my GTRs.

My Stang has ran a 11.89, but that was also with untuned. Since I have moved to England I have not found anyone to tune to it a fair price.

I love turbos, and to say that its an import thing is flat ass wrong. You do not hear the blow off valve every time you shift either.

oh yeah and dirtbike1128...why're you telling me about a blower that will get a 4.6 350hp? first of all, fox body mustang..meaning a 5.0. second 350hp isn't going to get me into 11s unless i gut all the interior and master shifting.

well of course it's not 100% import only. just when I think turbos, i think imports. it may just be me. who knows. so anyway you ran 11.89? with about how much money worth of parts in the car including the blower?

Turbo are great there is only two down sides to a turbo when it comes to a Mustang. The amount of install work is definetly more with any Turbo kit than a S/C kit. Second the price of a Turbo kit is more than a S/C kit.

yeah i kind of figured that...how much does your average turbo kit for a mustang cost?

yeah i kind of figured that...how much does your average turbo kit for a mustang cost?

You can pick up a PTK turbo kit with a PT76-GTS and a turbonetics race gate for 5000 even. Keep in mind that to bring a vortech up to the level of that kits performance you'd need to get a YSi-Trim, cogs to prevent belt slip, a big intercooler, and some long tube headers. It isn't that expensive when you factor everything else in.

Or if you're just running on a stock motor you can pick up a PTK kit with the stock 38MM tial and a PT67 for 3800 bucks. Well on pace with an intercooled procharger or vortech.

oh yeah and dirtbike1128...why're you telling me about a blower that will get a 4.6 350hp? first of all, fox body mustang..meaning a 5.0. second 350hp isn't going to get me into 11s unless i gut all the interior and master shifting.

Get a T-trim !! there awesome making 10psi outta the box on a 331 ran 10.0 @ 138 without blower car ran 11.8 119

331, performer unported heads, 262hr comp,65mm t body,trickflow streetintake, shorties, xpipe,3.55 gears 73mm airmeter,38lb injectors....i drive it on the street everyday!!

If you know your stuff(big if!) you could always build your own turbo system. Shouldn't cost you more than a $1500 if you're good and dont waste your money on flashy crap. I built my twin turbo system for my 351c for less than that, including all the fuel system and timing controls, turbos, wastegate controls... everything. The tranny to hold all that power... now that cost me! Cost me a good $500 more than the entire turbo system!
Another thing, forged pistons aren't neccesary w/ boost. Its not the power that an engine puts out that breaks pistons, its speed. Think about it... diesel engines that are making 1000+ ft/lbs of torque run cast pistons. The power produced from a cylinder firing results in compressive stress on the piston. Compressive stress is nowhere close to as damaging as tensile stress, which is exerted on a piston when it is stopping at TDC, or being pulled down the cylinder after TDC. These forces have nothing to do with the power stroke. The way these forces get out of hand is with piston speed. For the engine to spin faster, it has to make the piston move faster and stop it quicker. Therefore, RPMs are the real killer of pistons, not power. My 351c is running cast pistons and it is doing just fine.. I just don't rev it past 5.5k!
I'd rather run normal cast pistons than hypers. Hypers are more brittle than cast pistons, and unless they're heat treated(make sure they are!) they are weaker than cast as well. The advantage to hypers is they expand less under heat, which will result in less scuffing of the cyl walls when you first start the engine.

What turbos did you use?

How long did the whole build take you?

Sounds pretty cool with a 351c. Did you use aussie heads, or the 4bbl?

I used the normal US 2bbl heads. Aussies give too high of compression(its like 11:1 on a stock stroke!) and I didn't have a set of OC 4bbls to mess around with. I cleaned up the intake ports, polished the combustion chambers, and thoroughly ported and polished the exhaust ports. I'm running a custom cam ground by Mark McKeown. Stock 351c crank and rods, stock replacement cast pistons. I built the engine before I even thought of turbocharging it.. I was satisfied with the build for a few weeks before I wanted more power! Currently I'm using stock exhaust manifolds with some custom fabbed extensions to the turbos, since I'm about to start building another engine in the quest for more power and didn't want to put in all the effort of building custom headers for a few months of use. I'm currently using twin Garrett t3s, which came off late 80s thunderbird turbocoupes with standard transmissions. A/R is .60/.63. They spool around 2500-3000 and hold boost to the top. Right now I'm running twin Audi intercoolers, they're about 8"x14"x3". I paid $25 each. The turbos are used but in good condition, and cost me $200 each. The whole build took me a very long time, since school takes up most of my time. I started the engine's build when I was 17, finished that in 3 months or so, then a few months later I started the turbo project, and it has taken me well over a year to finish. It still needs a few bits and pieces to get it running right. If you want I could give a price breakdown of everything I bought...

I used the normal US 2bbl heads. Aussies give too high of compression(its like 11:1 on a stock stroke!) and I didn't have a set of OC 4bbls to mess around with. I cleaned up the intake ports, polished the combustion chambers, and thoroughly ported and polished the exhaust ports. I'm running a custom cam ground by Mark McKeown. Stock 351c crank and rods, stock replacement cast pistons. I built the engine before I even thought of turbocharging it.. I was satisfied with the build for a few weeks before I wanted more power! Currently I'm using stock exhaust manifolds with some custom fabbed extensions to the turbos, since I'm about to start building another engine in the quest for more power and didn't want to put in all the effort of building custom headers for a few months of use. I'm currently using twin Garrett t3s, which came off late 80s thunderbird turbocoupes with standard transmissions. A/R is .60/.63. They spool around 2500-3000 and hold boost to the top. Right now I'm running twin Audi intercoolers, they're about 8"x14"x3". I paid $25 each. The turbos are used but in good condition, and cost me $200 each. The whole build took me a very long time, since school takes up most of my time. I started the engine's build when I was 17, finished that in 3 months or so, then a few months later I started the turbo project, and it has taken me well over a year to finish. It still needs a few bits and pieces to get it running right. If you want I could give a price breakdown of everything I bought...

Actually I was thinking about doing that same thing with my Boss 302. I will not use the 4bbl heads, they are just too big.

Can you post some pics of your engine, heck and your car.

Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures of the engine since it was finished(I barely get home since I'm at college, and when I do, I'm too busy workin in the car to take pictures of it!), but I do have one very old picture of my car:
http://www.turboslut.net/stang.jpg
Hopefully when I go home for the summer in a few weeks I'll be able to finish up all the little things that need to be done(i'm building a new dash, installing a roll cage and redoing ALL the wiring in the car... yeah and those are 'little things'!) and be able to take some pictures of the finished product. It also needs to be painted pretty bad...
That picture was taken a couple days after I rebuilt the entire front suspension(and in the process found a new most hated car part: the ball joint.), so the springs haven't had time to break in. Those are actually 1" drop springs, too! I'm going to move the rear leafs down on the shackle to get a better rake on it until the springs start to ease up.

I agree, 4bbl heads are just too big. I was going to use 4bbl OC heads with port stuffers and a Parker Funnelweb manifold, but as I said, I dont have any 4bbls, and didnt really feel like finding and paying for them... Not to mention the funnelweb is $450!

Very nice.

I like a rake, just not too much;)

and i don't know if i'd like hearing a blow off valve everytime i shift gears...
I agree, but it can be avoided... Mainly, dont buy an aftermarket BOV! they all tout how loud they are, and thats the last thing you want. Buy 2 stock BOVs from some crappy turbo car(i think turbo volvos had them) off ebay. The stock BOVs have a tube fitting on their outlet, not some sound amplifying horn. Then use some cheapo tubing and route the blown off air into just before the turbo. You'll barely hear it.

I agree, but it can be avoided... Mainly, dont buy an aftermarket BOV! they all tout how loud they are, and thats the last thing you want. Buy 2 stock BOVs from some crappy turbo car(i think turbo volvos had them) off ebay. The stock BOVs have a tube fitting on their outlet, not some sound amplifying horn. Then use some cheapo tubing and route the blown off air into just before the turbo. You'll barely hear it.

Yep, that is the way my GTRs, and GTSt come from the factory. You cannot hear them at all.

Get a T-trim !! there awesome making 10psi outta the box on a 331 ran 10.0 @ 138 without blower car ran 11.8 119


How come in your only other post on this forum you said your car went 10.2 @ 137 with 20 pounds of boost?

My 88gt 331, t-trim 20psi, 10.2 137mph driving 40 miles round trip to the track ATE a g force last week...dumping clutch at 4500rpm. Put a used tremec 3550. Worked awesome. It handled 6000rpm dumps 10 times so far with a less torque cap rating then the g force...lol before you bag on tremec learn how to shift right...

Smells like that stinky stuff that comes out of a bulls ass to me.

Yeah, that sounds way too fast to me. Even 10.2 is pretty damn fast for 10psi supercharged on 331ci. If your car weighs 3000lbs wet(w/ driver and fuel) then you are puttin down around 615hp at the wheels. Not impossible, but with the stuff you listed I just dont see it happening. I push 10psi turbo'd on my 355ci engine, my car weighs 3100 with me in it and I highly doubt it could run a 10.0 1/4. I doubt your car weighs less than 3000lbs without a driver, unless its gutted.