Battle of the bastards

What is better?

No vintage muscle? C'mon man.

R34 baby!:D

R34 all the way man.

From what you put in your poll, a R34 no question, but I would rather have a R32 GTR V-Spec.

out of interest why an R32? the R34 and R33 are faster.

Originally posted by NSX-R-SSJ20K
out of interest why an R32? the R34 and R33 are faster.

Also on a similar note, what are the specs on the R34? I don't know much about Skylines.

well the specs hmmmm .....

:devil:

Engine 2.6 L inline six with twin turbo chargers - Japan has produced many 1000hp+ Skyline with the most powerful built by HKS 1600hp



Fuel System Type Petrol
Delivery Multi-Point Injection
Catalyst Yes
Aspiration Turbocharged

Engine data Capacity (cc) 2568
Power (bhp) 280
Cylinders 6
Camshaft DOHC
Valves per cylinder 4

Max speed (mph) 155
0-60 mph 5.0 secs
Kerb Weight (kg) 1540
Max Torque 295 lb/ft
@ 4400 rpm
Tank Capacity (litres) 0

Gearbox data Transmission type Manual
Transmission drive Four Wheel Drive
Number of gears 6 Speed


It also has
ATTESA E-TS, ATTESA ET-S PRO (Vspec), Four-wheel multi-link suspension, Hard-tuned suspension(Vspec), Super HICAS, Brembo brakes, ABS, five-spoke alloy wheels, power windows, power steering, air conditioning.

:devil:

The fearsome nurburgring in Germany is a very twister track the Skyline holds the fastest lap time for a production car which is under 8 minutes - It has an electronic 4 wheel drive system so it can go around corners faster than your average import!!! :devil:

this poll was doomed the minute the Skyline was added.

Sorry but the Skyline will rule out right.

skylines were banned from japanese grand touring car championships way back when the r32 came out cuz they were too much for the other cars.

yeah.....the whole "skyline is god's car" is kinda annoying, if it werent nissan, id hate it :D

anyway, looks like im one of the three people that wanna spin that rotary

Skyline all the way:D

Originally posted by NismoDrifts
yeah.....the whole "skyline is god's car" is kinda annoying, if it werent nissan, id hate it :D

anyway, looks like im one of the three people that wanna spin that rotary

Hate it or not it is hard to beat it :)

Originally posted by NSX-R-SSJ20K
out of interest why an R32? the R34 and R33 are faster.

I just love the way they look, and I belive they are lighter. And plenty of power can be had from the RB26. I have a Option2 mag that compares a greddy twin turbo kit to a greddy single. The twin turbo kit on the RB26 powered R33 GTR made the exact same power as the Single turbo RB26 of the R32. There was however a lot more area under the torque and hp curves of the twin, naturally. In fact the curve of the R33's twins rounded out at redline, the R32's single continued to rise until redline.

Actually on the dyno the R33 and R32 produced nearly identical power figures in standard trim.

Anyone claiming the R33 is faster has no idea what they are talking about. The R33 is heavier and a slightly wider wheel base and body. There for more power is needed to achieve the same acceleration. The R33 does have a slightly stronger block as Nissan discovered that the early model R32's had a flaw and tended to crack between the #4 and #3 cylinder walls when pushed extremely hard ie: over 40 psi of boost. The R33 and later model R32's had a more refined ATTESSA systems which makes for better acceleration off the line.

There have been aruguments of single and twin turbo set ups for years. The top cars in Japan all run a twin turbo setup, even the mighty Vailside and HKS street/drag cars. They are massive turbos also. The hp figures are insane for an engine under 3 liters in capacity. HKS managed to squeeze over 1600 bhp on a dyno before the motor snapped the titainium con-rods on the dyno. I don't have all the figures on that motor but from what our HKS distributor said they were running over 47psi of boost on race gas and the motor was still making hp at a rapid rate when it let go! That is purely insane!

:smoker2: :sun: :grey: arialIt depends on what u want it for and where u live ?

With places with alot of curves i would get the rx7 r2 tt
with places with alot of straightaways i would get tha skyline r34 or supra tt

I'd much rather have the sure footed, ATTESSA shod R34 under me in the curves then somthing with only 2 drive wheels. Sure the gtr is quick in a straight line, but it really shines in the twisties.

The fearsome nurburgring in Germany is a very twister track the Skyline holds the fastest lap time for a production car which is under 8 minutes

He speaks the truth :D

It was a split between the supra tt and the skyline for me. I chosse the Supra in the end because of the left side stearing. i also like the way the supras look better.

Originally posted by Razorgtst
Actually on the dyno the R33 and R32 produced nearly identical power figures in standard trim.

Anyone claiming the R33 is faster has no idea what they are talking about. The R33 is heavier and a slightly wider wheel base and body. There for more power is needed to achieve the same acceleration. The R33 does have a slightly stronger block as Nissan discovered that the early model R32's had a flaw and tended to crack between the #4 and #3 cylinder walls when pushed extremely hard ie: over 40 psi of boost. The R33 and later model R32's had a more refined ATTESSA systems which makes for better acceleration off the line.

There have been aruguments of single and twin turbo set ups for years. The top cars in Japan all run a twin turbo setup, even the mighty Vailside and HKS street/drag cars. They are massive turbos also. The hp figures are insane for an engine under 3 liters in capacity. HKS managed to squeeze over 1600 bhp on a dyno before the motor snapped the titainium con-rods on the dyno. I don't have all the figures on that motor but from what our HKS distributor said they were running over 47psi of boost on race gas and the motor was still making hp at a rapid rate when it let go! That is purely insane!

Thats what I thought, are the R33GTR & R32GTR stock engines indentical, even down to the a/r trim on the turbos?? Also how did they change the ATTESSA on the later R32s? One more, on the above mentioned high horsepower twin turbo car (i dont know about stock either) is each turbo creating 23.5 psi, or is one turbo larger and that one is creating the entire 47psi??

They seem to be split 50/50 around here on the single or twin. My local tuner Joule loves using the T-51 kai on all of his cars. The hks r33 had a t51kai on it at the last race of the yr. But Mr Kawasaki said they are always changing parts and trying different combos on it as it is mainly an exhibition car now.


Originally posted by Razorgtst

There have been aruguments of single and twin turbo set ups for years. The top cars in Japan all run a twin turbo setup, even the mighty Vailside and HKS street/drag cars. They are massive turbos also. The hp figures are insane for an engine under 3 liters in capacity. HKS managed to squeeze over 1600 bhp on a dyno before the motor snapped the titainium con-rods on the dyno. I don't have all the figures on that motor but from what our HKS distributor said they were running over 47psi of boost on race gas and the motor was still making hp at a rapid rate when it let go! That is purely insane!

Boost is measured at the plenum. There for it does not matter whether it is twin or single turbo configuration. In a twin turbo it would depend if they are sequencial or parralle. Parralle both turbos would need to produce the same boost level, IE both producing 30psi to achieve 30psi. The problem with sequencial turbo charging is the primary is smaller to spool quicker in order to reduce lag that the secondary or larger turbo will have. It also has a nasty tendency to over boost and or spool and shit themselves under high boost situations. The Subaru Legacy GT twin turbo is a prime example of this.

The GTR uses parralle turbo charging where each turbo is fed by three cylinders. Draw backs to this when changing from the factory turbo set up or when one becomes week is one turbo must now work harder to make up for the weaker one or the one this not balanced as well or flow as well. You will get surge at various rpm levels and that should be taken notice of straight away.

HKS when it set the all time ET record for a 4wd car was running a twin turbo set up. The turbos were custom made by HKS or for HKS and are not for sale. There was a very good write up in one of the Import mags but cant remember the bloody name. I read it while at a friends house. I believe it was High Performance Imports but don't quote me on it. It also made that pass with 9" wide slicks at all four corners and still has uses the factory frame work, no tubular chassis. For the ECU HKS uses the factory Nissan one with a shit load of piggy back systems for the engine and other various systems they run on the car. That is another reason I am not totally sold on the Power FC, Link, Motec, bla bla bla aftermarket ECU's. If they were so damn good then HKS would use them.

And what about the Veilside R32, 0-300km/hr in what, 13 sec? That damn thing goes 0-100km/hr in like 2.7. Thank god for ATTESSA and that crazy traction off the line :bloated:

looks like im one of a few who voted for the viper. Yes turbo's are nice and four wheel drive is nice, but its not my favorite OEM. Personally, id take the torque curve of a pushrod V10 over the power and handling of any skyline. Also, as much as i like sharp edges, i am still baised towards sleek designs like the current viper and the 2002 GT40. I would love to have either of these cars someday.

Hey the 02 GT40s are very very nice.
*rushes to the rescue as no other local Picwores have come to the scene yet.
http://www.mimeslayer.com/drew/Media/Pictures/2k2_Detroit_Auto_Show/Picture_0187a.jpg

Let me stand up for the true winner - the Viper. I know the net people all salivate over the Skyline and its potential. But the Viper not only has more in it stock, the potential surpases the rest hands down. TNT, Hennesy and others have modded these cars just like others have with the Skyline and they produce astonomic numbers that translate to sub 8 second runs and 0-60 in sub three seconds. The agruements over mod to mod can go on forever since there is always another you can do. The Viper starts out the winner and can go mod to mod and stay there.

Originally posted by YogsVR4
Let me stand up for the true winner - the Viper. I know the net people all salivate over the Skyline and its potential. But the Viper not only has more in it stock, the potential surpases the rest hands down. TNT, Hennesy and others have modded these cars just like others have with the Skyline and they produce astonomic numbers that translate to sub 8 second runs and 0-60 in sub three seconds. The agruements over mod to mod can go on forever since there is always another you can do. The Viper starts out the winner and can go mod to mod and stay there.

I agree because the viper is a friggin monster... the thing has so many cylinders i'm surprised it couldn't fly.


anyway, if we were to keep things stock i think the NSX would be a good choice for the track. I've seen NSX's beat other cars on the track (including the GTR & Supra) when it came to curves, other cars gain on the straight line.

But i think for the fun of it... the NSX would be more fun to modify since it's not superfast stock and there's so much stuff you can do to it. What's the fun of getting an already superfast monster and adding a cheesy hyperwhite and say you made it superfast!

Most of the cars like GTR are already fast from the factory and are just downgraded by the manufacturer to meet their local laws like nissan putting a chip on their GTR to make it go 290HP instead of the full blown power... so no challenge at all.

:o

What's the fun of getting an already superfast monster and adding a cheesy hyperwhite and say you made it superfast!


The point isnt to keep them Stock. The point is to take the already insain power and to add on. I feel sorry for the person who buys a GTR or a Supra and dosent trick it out. It also pisses me off. I also agree that Vipers are nice But with all that available power no one (that I know about) has made them as fast as the GTR or the Supras have. I also dont like the way the latest Vipers look.

I have a little comment to make. last weekend i went test driving cars. went to an acura dealer and tried some of their vehicles. the new rsx is nice i will deifnately say, not quite the same as some other cars but handles well. but the real wonder was they had a brand new 2002 acura nsx sitting inside. when i saw it i was floored. but i have to say something. I think that car would be very very difficult to mod. It is already tuned very nicely to run so smoothly and fast and handle well and so much more. the engine compartment in that car is barely accesible and it is the tightest thing i have ever seen. I woul dlove to have that beast but i think it woul dbe hard to improve upon the stock and i think it might not be the best thin gto do anyway. also, who has the money to properly mod a $90,000 car. my god it was beautiful.

Originally posted by Nxtyoung


The point isnt to keep them Stock. The point is to take the already insain power and to add on. I feel sorry for the person who buys a GTR or a Supra and dosent trick it out. It also pisses me off. I also agree that Vipers are nice But with all that available power no one (that I know about) has made them as fast as the GTR or the Supras have. I also dont like the way the latest Vipers look.

ok, im a little confused here, are you saying that youve never seen any Viper match how fast a GTR or a Supra is? Are you talking straight line speed or what? If your not, please don't tell me that you think that modded street legal GTR's and Supra's are faster than modded street legal Vipers.

Sorry i wasnt clear. I was talking about races. Not street legal. I have seen faster GTR's on the track (not quarter mile) that are faster than the Vipers. If their are faster Vipers I would love to see them.

opps. i meant to say in my post if you mean in a straight line, i havent seen GTR's or Supra's faster. On the track i dont think they run on the same tracks so i have no idea what would be faster, depends on the course and drivers more than anything

I don't believe the Viper uses pushrod technology as overhead cams are more efficent. It still has only 2 valves per cylinder like a true American muscle car. And I think that the viper should be left N/A just cause I LOVE the sound and feel of a 700+ HP N/A car. And the torque is just nasty. The engine is SO big that I think if modded right it could put down 1000+ HP without turbos. Call me old fashioned but there's no replacement for displacement. Also, the fact that an 800 some HP viper with rear wheel drive, NO torque management system like the Skyline's and a torque curve like that can do 0-60 in 2.43 second is just crazy. The Viper is one of the few high displacement N/A sports cars left, even including those that are 200,000+ dollars (Like the Speed 12, very un-orthodox for a British car I think). I love the thing.

youd be suprised, overhead cams are for the most part overrated. you also gotta love how MotorTrend did the 1/4 mile with the 800 hp viper in 9.99 seconds with street legal tires. i have never riden let alone driven a car like the viper, but my lincoln did have a really nice amount of torque in it, so i prefer that over waiting for power. i dont have anything against turbocharging a car like the viper because it will always make massive amounts of torque in the low rpm where many cars today are lacking.

Hey Psman. Just noticed you had a Lincoln. My dad used to have one. It Hauled a$$ for as big as it was. I remember we would be crusin down the highway and he would romp on it and after 110 the car just sunk to the ground. Sorry it died.

She didn't die, she just cant stop (the front brakes went out). Shes way down on power compared to where she used. She used to be very quick for her size and being stock but because of an trans problem, the rebuilt engine didnt last very long.

Originally posted by fearless_simian
I have a little comment to make. last weekend i went test driving cars. went to an acura dealer and tried some of their vehicles. the new rsx is nice i will deifnately say, not quite the same as some other cars but handles well. but the real wonder was they had a brand new 2002 acura nsx sitting inside. when i saw it i was floored. but i have to say something. I think that car would be very very difficult to mod. It is already tuned very nicely to run so smoothly and fast and handle well and so much more. the engine compartment in that car is barely accesible and it is the tightest thing i have ever seen. I woul dlove to have that beast but i think it woul dbe hard to improve upon the stock and i think it might not be the best thin gto do anyway. also, who has the money to properly mod a $90,000 car. my god it was beautiful.

The NSX is a hard car to mod only for one reason, not many people have them, keep in mind though that companies don't just start making performance parts right off the bat, if they are a smart company they do their research. For example look at the civic, there are so many of them buzzing around that you can nowdays find parts for them at your local 7-11. Odds are, if you make a part for the civic, people will buy it no matter what it is. So with the NSX, any part that does come out is going to be high in cost becuase they have to cover R&D, production costs and a host of other expences. An example would be the RM header and exhaust that my uncle added to his NSX, he paid 3K for 20hp (plus one hell of a nice sound). Header and exhaust is about the only option you have with the NSX motor, you can also add an intake but power from your normal add-ons in minimal, as with the S2000 honda ships them with plenty of power and technolgy. The only option for real power in both the NSX and the S2000 is forced induction. There is a comptech kit out for the S2000 as well as the NSX, and K&N Japan makes their gruppe M supercharger kit for the NSX. There is also a company headed by Corky Bell that does a twin turbo kit for the NSX. So you have some good options in reality when it comes to the NSX, its just going to cost you a good amount of dough.

i agree on the nsx...
those are badass... you dont need a tonna power to get high high performance... and stock it is faster than a stock skyline...

the r32 is faster that r33 and r34, at least according to motorex.net
not sure though... i know they are badass and i want one, but i want an nsx type s zero first. rarity at its best, and you get hella looks... and even for sucha "low" hp number, it still runs amazing numbers...

cool, you learn something new every day. and now i know what you can do with an nsx. now if we only hadn't just put an addition on the house.......

NB8CT, thats a good point, its the same way with exotics like farraris i'm guessing. Donno though, never researched prices for a new exhaust on a 550 :D However Skyline parts aren't that costly on the whole, even the ones from Nismo...

Originally posted by flylwsi
i agree on the nsx...
those are badass... you dont need a tonna power to get high high performance... and stock it is faster than a stock skyline...

the r32 is faster that r33 and r34, at least according to motorex.net
not sure though... i know they are badass and i want one, but i want an nsx type s zero first. rarity at its best, and you get hella looks... and even for sucha "low" hp number, it still runs amazing numbers...

i agree with you guys, and keep in mind that the NSX technology is several years old, but it was the king of it's time and beat every other car even ones with higher HP's....

i cant wait until they come up with the next gen that's supposed to sport the new V8 and honda's supposed to skip the japan law of 290HP limit...

at the same time honda is partnering with domestic manufacturer (dont remember which one) to use their v8 engine for a truck since it has a lot more torque than what honda can produce i guess...

we'll just have to wait and see :sun:

honda isnt making a truck. it was in autoweek or on www.overboost.com that they arent making one...
the nsx is still a leader. that is why they havent moved hp up, even in the states. it doesnt need big hp to make awesome numbers. and it handles awesome...

Originally posted by RiceRocket


i agree with you guys, and keep in mind that the NSX technology is several years old, but it was the king of it's time and beat every other car even ones with higher HP's....

i cant wait until they come up with the next gen that's supposed to sport the new V8 and honda's supposed to skip the japan law of 290HP limit...

at the same time honda is partnering with domestic manufacturer (dont remember which one) to use their v8 engine for a truck since it has a lot more torque than what honda can produce i guess...

we'll just have to wait and see :sun:

I disagree, the NSX is STILL the king of the US imports, and in the top 3 in Japan. I have multiple japanese videos were in a track event the NSX has beaten 1) R34 GTR 2) FD3S 3) Lancer Evo VI 4) WRX Type R not only becuase of the handling, but the braking, its kinda funny to see a R34 and an NSX go side by side into a corner, the NSX looks like it doesn't brake. As with the New '02 NSX i think although it does not look as good, the performance is awsome. I mean comeon with only a few body tweaks the CD went from .32 to .30 taking the top speed from 168 to 175, and thats without even touching the engine. I think that everyone has to agree that with the NSX, Honda was way way (like 11 years) ahead of their time.
I accually dread the next generation of the NSX, i think the V8 is going to kill the car. there is nothing like the High reving V6 VTEC in that car. Anyone who has ever drivin one will know as I do that the sweetest sound is that of a NSX running through 2nd gear all the way to redline. What i eagerly await is the New NSX TypeR, with even less weight via the carbon fiber hood, rood, and rear wing.

The NSX may be able to beat the Skyline is SOME manuvors stock but with mods the Skylines would butt rape the NSXes.

now an fairly ammusing thought is that here in the US i think it is about as expensive to legalize and import a skyline as it is to just buy a new nsx. now bone stock which would you choose.........(if anyone says skyline i will flip)

SKYLINE!!!!!!!!!!! I mean 3000 dollars on an imported Skyline for 400+ HP or 3000 dollars for 30 hp more on a bone stock NSX?

i believe you are incorrect...
the cost of importing a skyline, at least an r33 or higher is around 50k-90k... that does not include the legalization part... where it is converted to our bs standards... that is another 20k or so...
and that is for the stock car, with 280hp, not some wild 400hp monster.
that is from motorex.net

im sure you can import a wild one with 400 or so, but it would still be same ish cost as new nsx, and you would still have to spend the dough to legalize it to drive here...

I know all that. I'm saying after importing the Skyline and all the charges you spend LITTLE money for the HP you gain where as in the NSX you spend LOTS of money for the HP you get compaired to the Skyline. And Motorex can import a Skyline (Which includes legalizing) for about 90,000. I think it's a steal compaired to the American concept Skyline (The G35 or whatever that company (Nissian) calls it....NASTY) The R34 is the best Skyline!!!!! And the 100,000 price tag for the concept is a HUGE turnoff.

If you want to import a modded GTR through Motorex you just have to buy it were ever you found it and work out with them when and were to ship it. When it hits the docks someone has to be there with a work order (or somthin) sighned by an RI (Motorex) and must be shipped directly to them. Then they convert it and submit a conformance package.

motorex has 2 95 gtrs in stock right now, ones a vspec, fairly low miles, ready to drive off the lot for $50,000

Gothroax..if the Skyline is brand new off the dealer lot do you still have to purshace the car through the dealer as if you were a normal buyer or can you buy it through Motorex?

I'm not sure. I'm wanting to say you can just buy it through Motorex, but I'm not sure. What I do know for sure is that if you buy one, they will convert it but it will cost a tiny bit more. I'll ask Sean for ya.

Alright, thanks.

I dropped him a line but I haven't gotten anything back from him. I'll PM ya when he gets back in touch.

Originally posted by fearless_simian
...... it is about as expensive to legalize and import a skyline as it is to just buy a new nsx......

Not to mention a nice low miles used NSX.

Originally posted by NB8CT


Not to mention a nice low miles used NSX.

How unfortinatly true NB :( *Shakes his fist at our forefothers* You and your damn isolationism!! This is your doing!

Well instead of bitching up a storm throwing out over priced numbers for buy a GTR, the I can suggest a way to save yourselves a shit load of money and not only hand pick your car but also see some really bad assed ones.

Put your but on a plane and come down to New Zealand. Bring about $17,000 US dollars and purchase and R32 or $24,000 us dollars an R33 GTR. For about another $1,500 put in on a boat and ship it to MotoRex. At the end of the day you will save about $10,000 or more and see another country and hand pick your car.

Now how hard can that be?

Originally posted by Razorgtst
Well instead of bitching up a storm throwing out over priced numbers for buy a GTR, the I can suggest a way to save yourselves a shit load of money and not only hand pick your car but also see some really bad assed ones.

Put your but on a plane and come down to New Zealand. Bring about $17,000 US dollars and purchase and R32 or $24,000 us dollars an R33 GTR. For about another $1,500 put in on a boat and ship it to MotoRex. At the end of the day you will save about $10,000 or more and see another country and hand pick your car.

Now how hard can that be?

hhhhhmmmmmmm........ $17K you say? Anyone wanna buy my Miata as is for $18,500??

Originally posted by Razorgtst
Well instead of bitching up a storm throwing out over priced numbers for buy a GTR, the I can suggest a way to save yourselves a shit load of money and not only hand pick your car but also see some really bad assed ones.

Put your but on a plane and come down to New Zealand. Bring about $17,000 US dollars and purchase and R32 or $24,000 us dollars an R33 GTR. For about another $1,500 put in on a boat and ship it to MotoRex. At the end of the day you will save about $10,000 or more and see another country and hand pick your car.

Now how hard can that be?

Its ok vince, calm down... Go back to your posting j/k
No really he's right. If fact thats what I am planning to do, just going to delay the moving back part for a while. Who knows, I might like NZ to much to leave:eek:

well... when you put street car status into perspective... an nsx w/ 400whp is an asskicker b/c of the low weight and excellent suspension...
i really like those cars... and i really like a skyline... its a tough choice...
but for an nsx w/ ONLY whatever hp number you give it to run numbers of cars that usually have 100 or so more hp... that is something to talk about...

hell... that thing hits 165 stock... aerodynamics are awesome on that car... that is also important... honda has taken alot into account... like power to weight, aero, suspension... they built an awesome car for having ONLY 296hp... that says alot... not like the skyline isnt an awesome car stock... but i would be content to have an nsx w/ a loud exh and some 18s...

i couldnt be content with just an exh and rims on a skyline...

i guess if i went bang for buck style... i want an nsx b/c i dont FEEL i need to mod it... whereas with a turbo skyline, i would WANT to mod it... so i would spend less and still be just as happy... make sense?

Originally posted by flylwsi aerodynamics are awesome on that car...

Quite true, I'd like to see some wind tunnel figures on the NSX, I bet they are crazy! The GTR on the other hand, is a brick on wheels, but a very fast and good handeling brick :D
Originally posted by flylwsi
i guess if i went bang for buck style... i want an nsx b/c i dont FEEL i need to mod it... whereas with a turbo skyline, i would WANT to mod it... so i would spend less and still be just as happy... make sense?

Yea, I understand, it all boils down to personal taste, I'm a skyline guy soooo of course I'd take a GTR over an NSX any day all day. We could sit here and debate the pros and cons of both cars for years and still have gotten no were.