2004 Firebird replacement. Totally different!!

´These were the basic inspirations set down by Bob Lutz, GM’s chairman of North American Operations, in creating a “sketch-off” for the first concept vehicle commissioned by GM’s new product chief. The call went out at the end of September and by mid-October, the Pontiac Solstice roadster was under development.

With the European manufacturers still struggling to peddle their products in the US, there's a gap in the market for a compact roadster, particularly one that would appeal to American tastes. "The North American market is ripe for an affordable, pure roadster executed to top global standards on perceived quality, both inside and out," Lutz explained.

The program was executed in just under four months from the first sketch, to a drivable vehicle. The target was an affordable roadster that would sell for a paltry $20,000. The brief also detailed that the car must be very easy to build in a flexible manufacturing environment. This was accomplished using existing componentry from GM.

The exterior is finished in a rich gunmetal gray color, apparently giving a slight "European understatement" to the car. Imposing 19-inch front and 20-inch rear performance tyres and wheels fill the arches to provide a strong and powerful stance that accentuates the curves of the body.´


:eek:

Another.

Badass looking car.
Bob Lutz is also going to be traveling out to Austrailia to test out Holden's Commodore and a few other of their vehicles that are slated to arrive here in the US near 2005.
The Commodore could essentially be used to replace the Camaro as well.
However it's more of a "UTE" vehicle combined with a potent engine.
Check out a modified version at:
http://www.blownv8.com/

What is GM thinking? The ram-air's were sweet and they throw it away and replace it with an ugly car made up of heavy junked up metal.This car is simply UGLY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes. The current Firebird looks very good. As does the Camaro.
Problem isn't in the styling. It's in the market.
More people would rather buy something else then a cheap car that handles well and goes very fast in a straight line.
Best bang for your buck car out there!
Oh well...

as for my point of view, cameros and bad ass toys firebirds just for boys and professionals(like a for racing tracks..)
the big guys with big wallets need something goodlooking, elegent, strong and fast but not designed for street racing or car clocking, becasue it's not necessarily for some businessman, it's just must be lexury for affordable prices.
It's also something different and fresh.
even though they could leave firebirds on the market...
oh well...

yeah that car looks ok I wish they would put out them both though. I mean doesn't GM make enough money on all the other cars they make? why do they have to drop it like that. so what if they only sell 20k of them a year they sell the same if not less of the vette and they not only don't drop it but make a performance model (Zo6) too. ahh! it pisses my off :mad: I just hope they keep making at least one RWD,V8 powered car that is affordable to the common person not $50k + for the vette.

that bitch is ugly as shit

It looks like the future is going to be FUGLY AS HECK!!!

Imagine the roads filled with:
Ugly 2002Azteks
Stupid 2003 380Z's
Wimpy 2004 Firebirds
Retarded 2003 Avalanches
Disco 2004 RX7's


I'll need a blindfold to be able to drive without throwing up!!!

that eclipse is pretty ugly too

Originally posted by kidrocket
that eclipse is pretty ugly too

So is your momma:finger:

I think they should at least keep the firebirds.I mean more people are going to buy the firebirds.:confused:

The dealers are selling alot of Firebirds now because this is the last year.

thats true they are gonna sell a lot of them but the sad reason is cause they are gonna be gone after this year:( It too bad they didn't send them off with a bang. something like a WS6/ZO6 package something really outragous with 450hp and a supercharger option but they didn't and probibly never will but it's fun to dream. R.I.P

Yea they are selling a lot and in a about 15 years they will become good collector cars.:(

So is this just a concept or is it going into production??

Hey Firebird, you were wishing they'd sell a Firebird/Z06 car... you're in luck. No one is supposed to know about it yet except dealers, but a buddy of mine works for one and found out that at the end of the year they are supposed to release a special ed. Z28 with the Z06 drivetrain in it. Only 49 will be built. And they will cost about $80,000. But it'll be there............

I have heard rumors of the same

????? Whaaaaaaat????????

Why would someone want to pay $80,000 for a Z28 with a Z06 drivetrain. I realize that it would be rare and unique, but for that kind of money why not get the corvette, plus have some extra change?? Hell for that kind of money you could create a Z28 that would put almost any corvette to shame anyway. Oh well, it will be a cool thing to see.

The Solstice is a sweet looking car and its just what Pontiac needs.Its not ugly at all.But I really do hope they bring the Firebird back.GM needs something other than Solstice to compete with Ford's Mustang>(JUNK)

Originally posted by jewbacca02
Hey Firebird, you were wishing they'd sell a Firebird/Z06 car... you're in luck. No one is supposed to know about it yet except dealers, but a buddy of mine works for one and found out that at the end of the year they are supposed to release a special ed. Z28 with the Z06 drivetrain in it. Only 49 will be built. And they will cost about $80,000. But it'll be there............

jaja, i don´t think so, that would be a STUPID think to do, people dont want and don´t buy camaros at $16000-23000 and they gonna spend $80000 on one! jajajajajaaaaaaaaaaaa..................
make something like the SVT Cobra and then we´ll talk! jeje:D

Originally posted by DMC12
It looks like the future is going to be FUGLY AS HECK!!!

Imagine the roads filled with:
Ugly 2002Azteks
Stupid 2003 380Z's
Wimpy 2004 Firebirds
Retarded 2003 Avalanches
Disco 2004 RX7's


I'll need a blindfold to be able to drive without throwing up!!!

Its like a night in hell........

I dont think so.I think were in for a nice future.Our engineers are doing good with these designs.There coming up with some really hott cars.

I dont' know how the future looks for u guys, but it seems like cars are not gonna look sportish as they look now, regular cars are becoming just as powerful as sports car, mercedes/bmw and others, lexury cars, not sports car, and even not lexury, saab or other shit like that, they are supercharged now and shit...

the whole picture is changing, it's not just about firebirds... it's about cars in general...

The Solstice is pretty sweet, but I dont see how it could possibly replace the firebird. They are totally differant cars, The Solstice is a two-seater and its supposed to be a 4 banger right? Its also only a drop top right? Hmmm....that sounds like more of a competitor for Miatas, S2000's, and Mr2s!!! GM needs to bring back the F-Body twins on the new Sigma platform. If they dont, then the replacment should at least be a rear-drive v8 coupe!

There are a lot of reasons why GM dropped the F-car line.
1. The market has dwindled a lot.
2. Government safety changes that will cost to incorporate.
3. A larger SUV based market.
4. It has not had a major makeover since 1993. Just a reskin and new powertrain.

I would suggest reading the book,"All Corvettes Are Red". This will help to see the reasoning that goes into making a car at the corporate level. It is all business.;)

I don't know about the rest of you, but I can't stand these squashed jellybean, round blob designs with no interesting lines whatsoever. Who let these people design cars?

:apuke:

ok here is what i have heard about the slostice and the firebird...first they are getting rid of the firebird cause of sales issues and what not (basicly they are goning to do what they did with the gt40 and others cars that are comiing back within the next couple years)...now what i heard about the solstice is that it is just concept for now, they are trying to get public opinion about it and if its good then they will put it into production so if you like it go to the pontiac site and contact them and let them know....now don't mark my words on this i heard it all at a car show when they were giving a presentation on the solstice and i asked a guy about the firebird

neurokinetik
I don't know about the rest of you, but I can't stand these squashed jellybean, round blob designs with no interesting lines whatsoever. Who let these people design cars?




This isnt 1980.The automobile industry dont make cars that look like square boxes anymore.Technology is improving and so is car design.

you call that an improvement? Thats disgusting its like everyone is following the round Beetle/Nissan Z look.

From this:
http://s10xtreme.clanpages.com/firebird2.jpg

to this:

http://www.ls1transam.com/images/car_pics/100800_left_front_high.jpg

Is an improvement yes. But from the previous...to that, what the hell.

Ok
Lets write to GM saying they should keep the '83 body style until they stop making the model.As years go on they come up with different body styles.Thats the way it is with ALL cars today.There not ugly either.And they dont look much like a VW or a Nissan.There both super sweet cars but u look at any new car today...they all have the rounded bodys and there cool.

Lets write to GM saying they should keep the '83 body style until they stop making the model.
What the hell are you talking about I was saying the newer body style is an improvement in looks over the older boxier style of my GTA.

Rounded bodies yes, but not that rounded. It looks like a damn European car.

Now this would be a nice change. A little trip back to an older style. Even though this is a Camaro of course the Firebird would be looking similar.
http://www.motortrend.com/sept01/futcamaro/futcamaro3.jpg
Though the chrome front piece they could do away with.


Ya know at least Pontiac is making the GTO again. Cars are finally getting back to as much power as they had in the 60's and it seems like most of the world is concerned with luxary and gas mileage. I can't really say there are very few people interested in powerful V8's cause thats false, but it doesn't seem to be a huge thing anymore.

you know the main reason (or soi have heard) that cars dropped in power besides the gas shortage in the 70's is because they changed the fuel from leaded to unleaded. the lead in the fuel created a higher octane and therefore gave you more power. now don't go off on me for this cause it us just what i heard and i fifgured i would pass the info

You're right thats the reason. That and changing the engines over to fuel injected, American companies were having hard times trying to get power out of the V8's. But when that happened though people's attitudes seemed to change. Because of the 70's a lot more people were concerned about gas mileage then having power in their cars. Hence where Volkswagons and there lame ass Bugs came into play big time. Hell look at what cars are being raced nowadays. Of all things Honda's are being drag raced. You really think a Honda was even considered a challenge in the 60's? Anyways this is getting off topic. Enough of that.

you call that an improvement? Thats disgusting



That sounds to me that you thought it was a crappy improvment over the older GTA's.
I think it sweet but they made the mistake of changing the body style TOO much.Right now the Fire Bird Body style is good for the year but back in the early '90's it wasn't.Pontiac changed it too much.You would'nt beable to tell it was a Fire Bird if you didnt know it was one.

Actually no I don't think that picture is a better looking Camaro then the one out now. I'm saying that I'd take that concept design of the Camaro/Firebird over the picture shown on the first page. It has more of a muscle car look then that other thing. It's kind of like the 70's style of the Firebird and Camaros. Those were pretty cars, some had junk for an engine but still nice to look at.

That sounds to me that you thought it was a crappy improvment over the older GTA's.
Ok what are you talking about now? You still going on about that post I had with the two pictures of Trans Ams or something else? If you are go back and read the post over again. I just told you already as far as looks, a 2002 Trans Am vs 1988 Trans Am GTA, the 2002 Trans Am looks better.

Right now the Fire Bird Body style is good for the year but back in the early '90's it wasn't
I completely agree with that 100%. Those early 90-91 style GTA's were so ugly. The boxier style of my GTA looked better then those things. They had more power then the 88 but damn I wouldn't be caught dead in such a ugly Firebird

Going to use this to test sig rather then make another topic. Admin can feel free to delete if they want.

They were pretty damn ugly.(90-91)

http://www.automobile-riekmann.com//verkauf/pontiac_trans_am_gta_1991_rot_l.jpg

:huh: :bloated:

I don't see a reason to be angry because Pontiac is dropping the Firebird. It is simply an out-dated style that needs to be replaced by a nicer, fresher model (plus tons of other reasons GM had). This would be better than trying to drag out a obsolite style untill the numbers sold drop to embarassing numbers.

I don't see how they were "outdated". They dropped the car because they werent selling as well as GM wanted them to.They were great,awsome looking cars.

They weren't selling good because they were outdated. I think both the Camaro and Firebird were ugly body styles that needed a major change. Instead, Pontiac just got rid of the model all together. Not a bad move in my oppinion. Change is good. :D

What difference does it make if they build a factory supercharged version. If you want a supercharger there's a huge aftermarket out there where you can find plenty of them.

Its your opinion that they were ugly.Its my opinion that they were awsome looking cars.And I disagree,they werent outdated.

Same here. I thought they looked sweet:cool:

Yeah I would argue that the current Firebird Trans Am looks better then the new GTO.

i think its a really cool car actually, and i think it would be great to fight miatas and eclipses and maybe some low model mustangs, that aint no pony car though, and that aint no firebird replacement

Originally posted by DeViL
Yeah I would argue that the current Firebird Trans Am looks better then the new GTO.

I agree. But I wouldn't want them to make a Firebird look-alike and slap the GTO name on it. They should have came out with a style unique, but not leaving the basic style Pontiac has had for almost 50 years.

I would say the Firebird was a pretty unique style, it definately doesn't look like the rest of Pontiac's lineup. But thats the thing though, the GTO is supposed to look similar to the rest of the cars. You realize that the GTO had a lot of similar looks back in the 60's as the Grand Prix and even the Bonneville. They weren't that much different from everything else its just the other cars were bigger. Though there were some significant differences, as there are with the new GTO and the other cars.

One of those significant differences that the new GTO is missing is the hood scoops. A lot of people have mentioned that and I don't doubt it there will be an option for a different kind of hood later on.

Another thing that really ticks me off more then anything, no dual exhaust. That is complete bullshit all muscle cars had the dual exhaust. They better change that before the car comes out.

Originally posted by Blackbird01
Bob Lutz is also going to be traveling out to Austrailia to test out Holden's Commodore and a few other of their vehicles that are slated to arrive here in the US near 2005.
The Commodore could essentially be used to replace the Camaro as well.http://www.blownv8.com/

I've heard that the LS1-derived car GM has out there in Australia is going to be the basis for the new Pontiac GTO. Can't remember what its called but is that the "Commodore" you are talking about? (I saw a picture of it in Yellow - kinda looked like a cross between a Sunfire and Grand Prix)

It's the Holden Monaro. Look it up on holden's website holden.com. It looks pretty good basically the same as the GTO but a different front styling.

Originally posted by DMC12
It looks like the future is going to be FUGLY AS HECK!!!

Imagine the roads filled with:
Ugly 2002Azteks
Stupid 2003 380Z's
Wimpy 2004 Firebirds
Retarded 2003 Avalanches
Disco 2004 RX7's


I'll need a blindfold to be able to drive without throwing up!!!

i can make it a 4x4, like the aztek, just tell me if u want me to:bigthumb:

Nope, don't like it.

ive seen the australian version when i was in sydney it just has no resemblance to american muscle i hate it i want the firebirds back but until then my 71 will do just fine 455 but gm killed a living legend this year i hate them now but i still love the trans ams they were so brutally beutiful while they lasted the new trans ams look viciouse to me theyare by far the better looking vehicle long live pontiac muscle and big bad american v8's

it is an ugly ass car compared to the firebird if people want a cheap roadster saturn is coming out with one that is bad ass and a great company, dont even come out with both the solstice is ugly and has an import stupid name

way to bring up a nearly 11 month old thread.....