intermittent start problem '98 Caravan Sport

:banghead: I'm going CRAZY!
I've seen some similar posts but nothing exactly like mine so here goes...

Sometimes my van won't start and run but then minutes to hours later it is fine. These are the things that happen:

1. Put key in, van starts and there is no trouble.
2. Put key in, turn key and have no power to fuel gauge, speedometer, tach, temperature gauge, gear indicator, odometer. All the indicators in the top panel: check engine, ABS, Alarm, etc. function properly; van will "start" but dies the instant I let go of the key.
3. Put key in, no gauges, same as #2, van starts and continues to run and all gauges come to life (this is the least frequent)
4. Driving along and lose power to the gauges. Van continues to run without problem - just don't have any idea how fast I'm going. Sometimes the gauges come back to life while I'm driving.

Usually if it won't run, as in #2, and I continue to try it again and again (maybe 5 to 6 times) eventually when I turn the key nothing happens - doesn't try to start, doesn't click, doesn't grind - NOTHING!
It doesn't seem to happen more or less when it rains; but it did occur less frequently during the winter. Now that it is warming up it is starting again.

I have had it at two "5 star" dealerships in my area and neither of them have a clue. (Makes me wonder if it is 5 stars out of 100) :wink: Of course they've told me that they have started at least 100 times perfectly and I pick it back up and boom - stranded. One of them even suggested that it might be static electricity and asked me if I wore cotton underwear (did I mention that I am a woman).

PLEASE HELP! I'm ready to drive it off the highest bridge I can find!

It's a 98 Caravan Sport 107,000 miles (problem started around 98,000).

Does the steering column seem to have any play? Like rather than being solid and held in place when turning, it'll wobble or can be moved up and down or side to side? I'm asking because the connections can be losing contact to where the column has to be in just the right position to make the electrical connections inside. Also the ignitoin switch has been known to cause a plethora of stupid problems of it's own. Good luck

I have had this same problem for the past year. We have tried everything you could think of without much success. My problem is number two and don't have your other problems. When this happened one time, out of frustration I slammed my fist on top of the dashboard and all the gages came back up, you nshould try this with the key on. You have to do this on both sides of the steering wheel at the same time. Do this as soon as the car doesn,t start the first time not after the car goes dead. If the gauges come up the car will start. I can hit hard enough that it works, my wife can't. If this works your printed circuit board of you instument cluster has a short. The car will run without the cluster, but if you have a factory alarm the starter cut off goes into effect or the car computer thinks that the car is in gear. You can purchase a new on from the dealer for about 400.00. I took mine out and had it repair. I don't know if this is the cure as I only did it about a week ago, I saw your post thought this might help.

Good luck and let us know how you make out, remember hit it hard.
Paul

Well, I had my brother-in-law replace the ignition switch a couple of days ago and it has always started since then but the guages have gone dead twice on me while I was driving...

Paul - Thanks for the ideas. I'll try beating the crap out of it next time! I went car shopping this weekend (not looking at Dodges though) looks like I'm probably just going to get rid of it. I have 3 children and I can't take the chance of getting stranded somewhere with the kids.

Guess what?!?!? It worked!!!! I was "out and about" 2 days ago, had all three kids with me and when we tried to go home...van won't start. So I took my fists and pounded it one time as hard as I could and just like magic the guages came on and it started and ran! THANKS PAUL!! :bigthumb: I might still be stuck there if you hadn't shared your knowledge!

The latest news is that I traded it in on a Honda. I really lost all confidence in the van and the service departments at the dealerships in my area.

Good job because your at Dodges magical number for the transmission to crap out on you ((( 100 K mark )))... and that will leave you stranded and about $2000 to $3000 in the hole...

Hello-

I have had the exact same problems of starting and immediately dying, the dead gauges and the whole thing. Spent a fortune at the Dodge dealer with no success. They couldn't figure out what was causing it, even when they couldn't get it started. They replaced the BCM, etc, etc. They said bring it back when it does it again and they will replace more parts, but they could not guarantee anything.

I tried whacking the dash and it worked for me. I turned the key to the "on" position before I did it, so I could see what was happening. After I whacked it, the gauges came immediately to life and the thing started and continued running.

Clearly, this does not fix the problem, but it kind of narrows it down a bit. A few days later I had to do it again, but I really did not hit it that hard and it worked again.

I am still totally disgusted with the whole situation, however.

-John

Hey you're right, it worked! I've had problem #2 on our '97 Grand Caravan Sport off and on for the past year. When it wouldn't continue to run and the gauges stayed flat, the problem seemed to magically go away if it sat for a couple hours. It would happen once every 2 or 3 months. Recently, it started to occur more often and didn't rebound as quickly. Mileage is just over 100K. We had it to the dealer for the problem several months ago, but they couldn't find a problem or get it to repeat the flat gauge/quit-running syndrome. Yesterday afternoon, it happened again. After reading these threads I figured I'd give the dashboard pounding routine a shot. Not a real hi-tech procedure, but it worked. Just have to make sure you hit the dash hard enough. Although it sounds like no one has had any success with the dealers yet, we're going to give it one more try armed with this new "information".

Lee

Hi everyone,
98 Grand Caravan Sport 121K+ having exactly the same problem, same dealership answers "DUH!!!", starting to think this is a VERY common problem for them that they dont want to admit, I'm at the point of driving around with a scan tool hooked up, will try the fist fix next time it occurs (will actually be a bit enjoyable, I'm sure everyone understands) thank you very very much for the information, and I will let you know the results,
thanks again
Bob

Everyone, It works, it works, it works!!!!
I'm on vacation right now so i decided to just tinker a touch, went out to van, everything working fine, turned key off, smacked dash, turned key back on, all was dead, with key still in on position re-smacked dash and everything came back to life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
fantstic!!!!, i know it's not the final fix but it sure does get us in the right area,
THANKS AGAIN!!!!!!
Bob White

Well everyone I am glad to hear that my little dash bashing is getting everyone going again. I took my cluster out of the car in April and had it repaired. There were two problems first two bad diodes and the second was a conection at the plug. It has been almost four months and have not had a problem since. removing the cluster is fairly easy I think for most it will be harder to find someone to test and repair. I repaired it instead of replacement because it didn't want to change another unneeded part and not know if there was something wrong with it. The test and repair cost 150.00 I was told the dealer could change it at around 600.00 with labor. If my car had alot of miles I would have sold the car by at 6 years old I only had 50000 miles , I thought it was worth a try and repair it. Good luck to all.

Thanks a ton for sharing the info, you saved a lot of people a ton of cash!!!!! and thanks for getting back to all of us with the good news.
I still have the e mail into Chrysler and I'm waiting for a response (Can't Wait!!!) I will keep you posted.
Once again thank you very much, these forums are great!
Bob White

Thanks for the help! 1997 Dodge Grand Caravan, 96,000 miles, Intermittent Starting, my gages and cruise fail on occasion while driving. ABS and Check engine light come on when this happens. I've managed to revive it a couple of times by banging on the dash, but haven't looked into a permanent solution yet. Has anybody had any luck finding a permanent fix that has taken care of this beyond banging on the dash?

Hi All,
We have a 99 T&C and had similar ordeals to the ones mentioned above. A variety of repairs attempted with dealers. Long story, short, the instrument cluster circuit board was eventually replaced and the car has been fine with zero symptoms going on six months now. This seems to be the root cause of most if not all of these situations.

By everyones comments, it sounds as if you have found the solution to our mutual problems... A couple quick questions - Are you still problem free 6 months later, and where would one go to begin looking for a business that could test and repair the part?

Thanks!

Our "start/die" symptom has not happened once since the instrument cluster circuit board replacement was done six months ago. We went through the BCM route and various other repairs over the course of a year before getting to the right diagnosis. This was all done at a Dealer. That being said, unless you know a good mechanic familiar with this car, I'd go to a Dodge/Chrysler Dealer with the information from this thread and have them start their diagnosis with the instrument cluster.

Others in this thread had their circuit board repaired. Perhaps they could report how long they have been trouble-free since the repair.

Hi Yokoko,
I fixed mine myself back in July, absolutely no problems since, if you dont feel comfortable soldering on printed circuit boards i would suggest having someone else do it for you, the fix is a cracked / cold solder joint on the instrument cluster main plug solder connections to the pc board, it is one of the two ground pins (sorry i dont remember which one) in fact when i repaired mine i resoldered both to be sure.
The total time to remove, repair, reinstall and test the cluster was somewhere around an hour and a half.
Best of luck,
Bob White

Do the OBD Dance... get your error code(s). I had a very similar problem and it turned out to be the crankshaft positioning sensor. I had my dealer replace it... for $225.

I finally got rid of my van , it was stolen(thank god the insurance company take care of this), a week before that I went to a car dismantler or yonk and bought a BCM computer p/n 04686256F and a instrument cluster The one with the RPM meter. so didnot have time to installed it, At this time I am offer it to sale for the same amout I paid 95.00 for both , If some one is interested let me know, those parts for a grand caravan 1996- 2000.
asotovx

Yes you are right if the printed circuit board goes down it can pull the bus circuit down also and as you said then you loose your starter and that is because your factory alarm needs the bus circuit to dis arm and allow vehicle to start the allarm program is to eventually shut down starter after repeated attemps to start vehicle without alarm system telling pcm to allow engine operation

Thank you everyone for this insight!

I wish I would have known the Dash Smash remedy a week ago!

I have replaced the PCM, the Junction Box (under the dash) and now, my van is currently at the Dealership for a new BCM!
They are sending out the BCM for overhaul,(?) (because they can't get a new one anymore) :disappoin
They borrowed a BCM from another van and said everything worked with it installed. Whatever!
Maybe the instrument cluster circuit board has been the problem all along? :uhoh: This means my troubles are still not over... :lol2:

I only wish there were a more effective troubleshooting procedure.
The Dealership seems to just throw parts at the problem and eventually/hopefully fix it.
That is a very poor maintenance practice. :screwy:

Wishing everyone better luck than me....Thanks, Steve

Well everyone I am glad to hear that my little dash bashing is getting everyone going again. I took my cluster out of the car in April and had it repaired. There were two problems first two bad diodes and the second was a conection at the plug. It has been almost four months and have not had a problem since. removing the cluster is fairly easy I think for most it will be harder to find someone to test and repair. I repaired it instead of replacement because it didn't want to change another unneeded part and not know if there was something wrong with it. The test and repair cost 150.00 I was told the dealer could change it at around 600.00 with labor. If my car had alot of miles I would have sold the car by at 6 years old I only had 50000 miles , I thought it was worth a try and repair it. Good luck to all.

It works for me too!! Man you are a savior! I'll be going on a long trip (Sacramento to Palm Springs, CA) and will be taking the Van. Although I can put up with the dash-banging, get it started while parked, I am concerned does this problem extent to shutting off while driving on the Highway (or even on city roads for that matter)? Have you or anyone on this board had the van stall while driving (vs. not being able to start while parked)? Also Petruzzi; has the problem recurred? (beyond four months?).

Thanks again,
Kenneth

same problem here..i will give the banging routine a try.

Hi All,
We have a 99 T&C and had similar ordeals to the ones mentioned above. A variety of repairs attempted with dealers. Long story, short, the instrument cluster circuit board was eventually replaced and the car has been fine with zero symptoms going on six months now. This seems to be the root cause of most if not all of these situations.

I have had the same problems described. I just spent $685 ay the dealer to have the BCM rplaced with no success in eliminating the problem. Did you have the circuit board replaced at the dealer? If so, how much was the charge. If you did the work yourself, is the circuit board inside the cluster? Also, where did you purchase the circuit board. Thanks.

I'm also having the same problems almost to a T (97 Caravan Sport 120k miles). Dash controls have only gone out once while driving and I smacked the dash real hard and instantly they came back to life Only thing was this time the CE light came on. So I had a friend read the codes for me and we came up a bad o2 sensor and 1698 (no ccd from tcm).
I was just wondering could a bad or damaged instrument cluster cause the tcm code? I know that many things could be the cause of this code and I'm just speculating can't afford to go back to the dealership since I just spent 1500 bucks 2 months ago on a complete tune up and BCm replacement.

I swear if I ever get this thing paid off I'm trading it in I spend at least 3k a year in repairs.
help me /cry

This is all very helpful. Unfortunately I just went out and banged as hard as I could on the dash and it still wouldn't start (I'll get my husband to try when he gets home). It DID however cause the oil light and brake light to come on and stay on (when the key was turned to RUN) and for a half-second powered up the lights on one of the AC controls.

The main difference I see between our van and the other posts is that we also have a weird clicking coming from the steering column (I guess it's from there). It started after the first accessory failure and then went away after a few seconds. Well, this morning when I went to try and turn it on, nothing happened, so I turned the key to off and it went back to doing the crazy clicking thing. Well, it's now 12 hours later and it's STILL clicking like crazy. (I've tried to start it about 4 times throughout the day and it's been clicking the entire time.)

I hate this van. It's been nothing but expensive trouble the whole two months we've had it, but our 200,000 Jeep has no AC and I'd like to keep the van at least through August just for the AC!!!! Then the Anacostia River can HAVE it.

Any thoughts, suggestions would be most appreciated. (again! :) ) Do you think it would start with a good dash-whack if I could stop the clicking somehow? Also, what is an "R and R shutdown relay"? The mechanic I took it to a few days ago (who was useless) decided to replace that.

Also, there is some screw dancing around the dash. That's a new development I think. (It's a 98 Grand Voyager with 162,000)

Thank you, thank you.

As others have speculated this is caused most times by cracks in the solder trails on the cluster board and this affects all the things you have described and is a fairly common problem on that era 96-2000 van . Have not heard of any problems on the newer 2001 on up vans .

I have a Dodge Caravan 94 3.0 Ltr van, and I have a similar problem. In the morning I try to start the car and it clicks but nothing happens then I keep on turning key after about 15 times it finally kicks in and the damn thing starts, Then there are days when I try on thr first time and it starts right away. I have checked starter, it's ok tried battery, it's ok checked fuses there ok. what the heck is going on? Any Ideas?. Thanks

What? Are we all that bored that we have to open 2 year old threads? If it's over two months old post a new thread.

WOW! It's about time I found someone else who's having this type of problem. I've been ready to sell my van because of this! I've been told it was a security defect of some sort.......I'm going to try the banging on the dash & have my husband look into fixing the circuit board.......& let you know how it goes........This is a great web site!:)

I know this is an old thread, but it helped me out immensely. I came across it while searching Dodgetalk or something. What I am adding is the link to my question on dodgetalk. I answered my own question because of this thread, but I also came up with reasons as to why the cluster seems to mess up, aside from cold solder joints.

http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2377396&posted=1#post2377396

Spring and summer usually mean poorer road conditions in terms of bumps, until the roads get fixed. I suspect that the clusters typically failing around 160km or 100miles, as I read on some threads, is due to the vibrations of the road, and is amplified by worn out suspension systems typical of this milage. The lower ball join in particular takes the most abuse. Once it goes, everything else gets really bad really fast. They are sealed ball joints, meant for the life of the car, typically 100miles.

People still need to solder up their instrument clusters to fix the problem short term. If the suspension is really bad, or you travel in a construction zone all the time, the fix will likely fail again.

I've had the same problem with my 98 grand(not so). the dealer pointed me to the instrument cluster so I now live with a torn apart dash - have done the hitting thing but sometimes have to manipulate the connector, cleaning the connector contacts can last up to six months. Now a new problem no radio at all and door locks unless key in run - maybe the ignition switch now???

I suspect that the clusters typically failing around 160km or 100miles, as I read on some threads, is due to the vibrations of the road, and is amplified by worn out suspension systems typical of this milage.

...and the torque imparted on the connector's solder joints on the circuit board by inept design of the routing of the wire harness and/or improper positioning of the harness during installation. Keep steady pressure on a solder joint and it will fail.

I haven't taken apart the dash of my van yet, but if tension is constantly placed on the cluster plug by the wires, creating an extended harness from a junkyard caravan may lessen the tension. All depends on the connectors and room back there.

In regards to the radio dying permenantly and the door locks only functioning when the car is on, that seems like bcm stuff to me, assuming power is getting to the radio and it is properly connected back there. May want to replace the radio if the old one is getting power supplied.

I looked at a wiring diagram for a 1996 3.8l es door locks. I don't see anything directly related to the ignition on the diagram. Stuff goes to the BCM, and that is where the relays for actuating the lock unlock stuff is. Not much else other than replace the bcm it seems.

If you are talking about keyless entry only working with the ignition on, the keyless entry module goes to the ground of the instrument cluster, and that possibly is connected to the working ground (I read there are two grounds on the instrument cluster) once the ignition switch engages.

I came upon this thread while searching for similar issues that I am experiencing with my '99 T&C. I had to try giving the dash a wack to see if it worked, The insrtuments and milage LCDs immediatly came on after being off for days. I could not believe it. THANKS I will look for loose and cold solder joints when I have time to open it up and when my wrist gets sore. THANKS AGAIN!

Had this fixed 2 summers ago, shade-tree mechanic went to the junkyard and bought a cluster for 50 bucks and it's been golden ever since.

Had this fixed 2 summers ago, shade-tree mechanic went to the junkyard and bought a cluster for 50 bucks and it's been golden ever since.

Could have kept $49.90 in your wallet and saved a trip to the junkyard but hey you could have forked over $500 to a dealership too.

i finally took the Instrument cluster out and re-soldered all the connector joints plus coated the pins with solder. been over a year with no more problems of that sort.

also if your radio stops working and your door locks only work when the vehicle is running check the little fuse in the engine compartment fuse box labeled "mem" that was the fix for me -- better double check it I thought I had checked but suffered several months before checking it (again?)

Thank you! This problem baffled my regular mechanic and I am mechanically "unsound" and only work on computers :) The "hit it on the dash" worked and thanks to the posted pictures i'm going to tackle the soldring tomorrow. Thank goodness for google :biggrin: