Abortion: Would you let your wife/girlfriend have one?
Revhard
01-09-2002, 02:45 PM
I was just wondering what everyone's insight on this particualr issue is. You never know when you might be caught up in a situation where you have to make a choice whether or not to let her have one.
GOD
01-09-2002, 02:52 PM
I would say that I'm against it but I really dont know if it were to be me if i would do the opposite . I think I would be scared as F$%@# and me not being financially ready or mature enought to take care of another human being like that ....I really don't exactly know what I would do :( I can say that there have been close calls and things if shit did hit the ceiling fan I dunno what I would do but to suck it up and take responsibility for my actions . I'm thinkin thats what I would do b/c I sure as hell wouldn't want to have any part in taking anyones life away . B/c I am NOT GOD ....except on AF but I will not play God with anyones life !
taranaki
01-09-2002, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by Revhard
I was just wondering what everyone's insight on this particualr issue is. You never know when you might be caught up in a situation where you have to make a choice whether or not to let her have one.
No disrespect,but I really don't think it's a matter of "letting" or 'not letting'.Like it or not, if you are facing this situation as a male, you have very litte say in the matter.Personally,I believe that if you don't want to have children,you can and should take any number of measures to avoid pregnancy in the first place.In the unlikely case that your protection fails you,and you do end up fathering a child the current trend in law accross many countries is that not only will the mother have full and final rights to the future of the child,you as the father will almost certainly end up paying child support if the child is born,regardless of wether or not you ever wanted to be a parent.The balance of power in law has swung very definitely in favour of women in recent years.Thesedays there are sound financial reasons to behave in a responsible manner.
But it's still o.k. to....you know..:p :p :p
I was just wondering what everyone's insight on this particualr issue is. You never know when you might be caught up in a situation where you have to make a choice whether or not to let her have one.
No disrespect,but I really don't think it's a matter of "letting" or 'not letting'.Like it or not, if you are facing this situation as a male, you have very litte say in the matter.Personally,I believe that if you don't want to have children,you can and should take any number of measures to avoid pregnancy in the first place.In the unlikely case that your protection fails you,and you do end up fathering a child the current trend in law accross many countries is that not only will the mother have full and final rights to the future of the child,you as the father will almost certainly end up paying child support if the child is born,regardless of wether or not you ever wanted to be a parent.The balance of power in law has swung very definitely in favour of women in recent years.Thesedays there are sound financial reasons to behave in a responsible manner.
But it's still o.k. to....you know..:p :p :p
YogsVR4
01-09-2002, 03:34 PM
I think this should be on the philosophy forum - however
I do think that as men, we need to step up to the plate and have a lot to say about the situation. Saying, its all up to the woman is a major mistake. It took two to do the deed so you both are responsible for the repercussions. It doesn’t matter at this point what side of the abortion debate you stand. Its important that an abortion takes place because a woman feels abandoned by the man. I believe it’s in a woman’s nature to want to have the child, even if its given up for adoption. Using abortion as a means of birth control is both dangerous and emotionally draining. Guys need to take responsibility for what they have done.
If the decision is only up to the woman, then should they be the only ones financially responsible for the baby? The courts say otherwise, so the man should be involved with the decision making process. Clearly he cant demand the woman get an abortion against her will, but he can sure make sure that he’s their for the new life they created.
I do think that as men, we need to step up to the plate and have a lot to say about the situation. Saying, its all up to the woman is a major mistake. It took two to do the deed so you both are responsible for the repercussions. It doesn’t matter at this point what side of the abortion debate you stand. Its important that an abortion takes place because a woman feels abandoned by the man. I believe it’s in a woman’s nature to want to have the child, even if its given up for adoption. Using abortion as a means of birth control is both dangerous and emotionally draining. Guys need to take responsibility for what they have done.
If the decision is only up to the woman, then should they be the only ones financially responsible for the baby? The courts say otherwise, so the man should be involved with the decision making process. Clearly he cant demand the woman get an abortion against her will, but he can sure make sure that he’s their for the new life they created.
whttrshpunk
01-09-2002, 09:08 PM
If the baby was mine, which is very unlike since I'm celibate ;), I would certainly say no. (I've had this conversation before with an ex...friend of mine. )If I was irresponsible enough to father a child, then I should have to deal with it. But then she asked me, "what if I was raped, would you still want me to have the baby?". Ouch. I didn't know what to say at first, but I finally came to a conclusion. It's my personal belief that anytime any human being takes the like of any other human being, it's a very bad thing. If it's self defense, or in times of war, it's understandable but it's still bad. So I am against abortion, at all times. I was also asked(by a different person) "what if a girl was raped, and having the baby would probably kill her? What then?" That's an even more difficult situation, but I still don't think it would be right for the mother to take the baby's life, even to save her own(and no that doesn't qualify as self defense). Anyhow, on a final note I don't think using birth control qualifies you as being responsible in respect to pregnancy, if you know you aren't ready for a child, or you wouldn't want a child with the intended partner, KEEP YOUR PANTS ON. Ok, I'm done.
GSr32
01-09-2002, 10:58 PM
Well, some people say that your killing someone. Abortion is too early to say that, the child hasn't even been born, you haven't yet given life.
If someone doesn't want to have a child, and maybe it was an accident that the pregnancy occured, then I don't see why an abortion is bad. It's better that you do something about it now, before the child is born and the parents can't take care of it.
This subject is a bit like euthanasia, which I am totally all for. I think it is cruel to keep someone alive that is suffering. If the person wants to die, then put them to rest.
If someone doesn't want to have a child, and maybe it was an accident that the pregnancy occured, then I don't see why an abortion is bad. It's better that you do something about it now, before the child is born and the parents can't take care of it.
This subject is a bit like euthanasia, which I am totally all for. I think it is cruel to keep someone alive that is suffering. If the person wants to die, then put them to rest.
YogsVR4
01-10-2002, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by GSr32
Well, some people say that your killing someone. Abortion is too early to say that, the child hasn't even been born, you haven't yet given life.
If someone doesn't want to have a child, and maybe it was an accident that the pregnancy occured, then I don't see why an abortion is bad. It's better that you do something about it now, before the child is born and the parents can't take care of it.
Understand that the people who believe abortion is killing a life truely believe that the life of the baby is sacred. Other classes of humans have been considered less then people, Jews to the Nazis, slaves of all creeds (which still goes on today), Chinese and Koreans to Imperialistic Japan, Christians to the Romans and the list goes on and on. Any rational person would agree that fighting and spilling blood was necessary to halt these travesties. Those who believe that an unborn fetus is a person is waging a war to save lives.
You’ll hear abortion supports claim that the right to life people are trying to control a woman’s body. Perhaps some of them are, however, the right to life people are trying to save what they consider to be the life of a child. The supporters of either side will try and frame the arguments in the best way to demonize the other side. Pro Choice. Of course everyone supports having a choice. But, there are already restrictions on choice. You cant go down the street and chose to kill someone without repercussions. Pro Life. Of course everyone supports life. Only a mentally ill person (terminal, elderly, the stupid and lazy) doesn’t want to live any more.
Since nobody knows when sentience occurs or when the fetus gets it soul (assuming you believe in one) is impossible to tell, nobody can say for certainty if they are not killing when they are performing an abortion.
I frown on abortion, I think its wrong. I believe that conception is the starting point of life. I have no problem with birth control that prevents conception (been using it for fifteen years so I gotta be comfortable with it now), but slicing up a fetus and sucking it out with a vacuum hose is not the way to go. I am a strong advocate of personal responsibility. If you take the chance, you have to live with the outcome. Our society is always looking for a scapegoat and in this case, it’s an unborn fetus who has no way to defend itself.
I understand there are circumstances like rape and the life of the mother being in danger, and those are moral dilemmas that have to be dealt with (on a later thread).
As to the specific quote to "do something about it now, before the child is born and the parents can't take care of it" is shortsighted. You're suggesting that action be taken because of possible future events. Then I guess we should consider killing every Palastinian male under the age of 10 because they could grow up to be a suicide bomber. Obvously that logic is flawed.
Well, some people say that your killing someone. Abortion is too early to say that, the child hasn't even been born, you haven't yet given life.
If someone doesn't want to have a child, and maybe it was an accident that the pregnancy occured, then I don't see why an abortion is bad. It's better that you do something about it now, before the child is born and the parents can't take care of it.
Understand that the people who believe abortion is killing a life truely believe that the life of the baby is sacred. Other classes of humans have been considered less then people, Jews to the Nazis, slaves of all creeds (which still goes on today), Chinese and Koreans to Imperialistic Japan, Christians to the Romans and the list goes on and on. Any rational person would agree that fighting and spilling blood was necessary to halt these travesties. Those who believe that an unborn fetus is a person is waging a war to save lives.
You’ll hear abortion supports claim that the right to life people are trying to control a woman’s body. Perhaps some of them are, however, the right to life people are trying to save what they consider to be the life of a child. The supporters of either side will try and frame the arguments in the best way to demonize the other side. Pro Choice. Of course everyone supports having a choice. But, there are already restrictions on choice. You cant go down the street and chose to kill someone without repercussions. Pro Life. Of course everyone supports life. Only a mentally ill person (terminal, elderly, the stupid and lazy) doesn’t want to live any more.
Since nobody knows when sentience occurs or when the fetus gets it soul (assuming you believe in one) is impossible to tell, nobody can say for certainty if they are not killing when they are performing an abortion.
I frown on abortion, I think its wrong. I believe that conception is the starting point of life. I have no problem with birth control that prevents conception (been using it for fifteen years so I gotta be comfortable with it now), but slicing up a fetus and sucking it out with a vacuum hose is not the way to go. I am a strong advocate of personal responsibility. If you take the chance, you have to live with the outcome. Our society is always looking for a scapegoat and in this case, it’s an unborn fetus who has no way to defend itself.
I understand there are circumstances like rape and the life of the mother being in danger, and those are moral dilemmas that have to be dealt with (on a later thread).
As to the specific quote to "do something about it now, before the child is born and the parents can't take care of it" is shortsighted. You're suggesting that action be taken because of possible future events. Then I guess we should consider killing every Palastinian male under the age of 10 because they could grow up to be a suicide bomber. Obvously that logic is flawed.
SickLude
01-10-2002, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by YogsVR4
I frown on abortion, I think its wrong. I believe that conception is the starting point of life. slicing up a fetus and sucking it out with a vacuum hose is not the way to go. I am a strong advocate of personal responsibility. If you take the chance, you have to live with the outcome. Our society is always looking for a scapegoat and in this case, it’s an unborn fetus who has no way to defend itself.
agreed. people use abortion as an excuse because they could not take the responsibility for their actions. there are other circumstances however, such as rape and everything, but thats for another topic. but there is one situation i think it would be ok to have an abortion....when a child is raped. 11, 12, younger. and that child is now pregnant, she will die because she dosent have the physical ability to give birth. this is all so sad. 50 years ago, this wasnt even known. 20 years ago, it wasnt talked about. now, its considered mainstream. its sad really.
I frown on abortion, I think its wrong. I believe that conception is the starting point of life. slicing up a fetus and sucking it out with a vacuum hose is not the way to go. I am a strong advocate of personal responsibility. If you take the chance, you have to live with the outcome. Our society is always looking for a scapegoat and in this case, it’s an unborn fetus who has no way to defend itself.
agreed. people use abortion as an excuse because they could not take the responsibility for their actions. there are other circumstances however, such as rape and everything, but thats for another topic. but there is one situation i think it would be ok to have an abortion....when a child is raped. 11, 12, younger. and that child is now pregnant, she will die because she dosent have the physical ability to give birth. this is all so sad. 50 years ago, this wasnt even known. 20 years ago, it wasnt talked about. now, its considered mainstream. its sad really.
taranaki
01-10-2002, 10:15 PM
I'm surprised and delighted that this thread hasn't turned into a shouting match with people simply digging their toes in without explaining their reasoning.Abortion is a major ideological issue that requires a lot of thought before any medical procedure is performed.Unfortunately,the worst possible time to try and figure out your options is after you have discovered that you need to make a decision urgently.
Ifeel that sex and parenting is one of most important issues facing today's teenagers and the obstructive attitude by some people towards giving young people access to sex education is not helping.There are too many downsides to sexual ignorance,teenagers should be encouraged to avoid the propaganda,seek out the facts and take the neccesary steps to avoid being placed in a situation that is often beyond their control.
Ifeel that sex and parenting is one of most important issues facing today's teenagers and the obstructive attitude by some people towards giving young people access to sex education is not helping.There are too many downsides to sexual ignorance,teenagers should be encouraged to avoid the propaganda,seek out the facts and take the neccesary steps to avoid being placed in a situation that is often beyond their control.
LjasonL
01-10-2002, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by GSr32
Well, some people say that your killing someone. Abortion is too early to say that, the child hasn't even been born, you haven't yet given life.
technically, the unborn child, from the minute of conception, is made of living cells, even if it is just one living cell. so yes, the unborn child is alive, and abortion is killing it.
Well, some people say that your killing someone. Abortion is too early to say that, the child hasn't even been born, you haven't yet given life.
technically, the unborn child, from the minute of conception, is made of living cells, even if it is just one living cell. so yes, the unborn child is alive, and abortion is killing it.
GSr32
01-11-2002, 01:01 AM
killing living cells is about as far as it goes, not a life.
p.s I was going to ramble on about other ways we kill living cells, but who cares.
p.s I was going to ramble on about other ways we kill living cells, but who cares.
JD@af
01-18-2002, 05:28 AM
This is a quasi-repeat thread for this forum. Here is the first one: Abortion. (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t1076.html)
As for letting my wife/girlfriend have one... if it were to happen tomorrow, I would have to say yes, I would let her if she wanted to. If she didn't... I would probably then push her to do so :( There are some things I would rather not have sprung on me, so given the option to do something about it, I believe I would (I just hope that I am never faced with that decision, and that if pregnancy does rear its head in my life, I am ready for it).
As for letting my wife/girlfriend have one... if it were to happen tomorrow, I would have to say yes, I would let her if she wanted to. If she didn't... I would probably then push her to do so :( There are some things I would rather not have sprung on me, so given the option to do something about it, I believe I would (I just hope that I am never faced with that decision, and that if pregnancy does rear its head in my life, I am ready for it).
Sham365
01-21-2002, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by Revhard
I was just wondering what everyone's insight on this particualr issue is. You never know when you might be caught up in a situation where you have to make a choice whether or not to let her have one.
Man, I am not going to touch this one. I can only imagine how many far right wing conservatives rumage these boards. I don't want some Pat Buchanan type e-mails sent to me over some opinion on AF.
I was just wondering what everyone's insight on this particualr issue is. You never know when you might be caught up in a situation where you have to make a choice whether or not to let her have one.
Man, I am not going to touch this one. I can only imagine how many far right wing conservatives rumage these boards. I don't want some Pat Buchanan type e-mails sent to me over some opinion on AF.
YogsVR4
01-21-2002, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by Sham365
Man, I am not going to touch this one. I can only imagine how many far right wing conservatives rumage these boards. I don't want some Pat Buchanan type e-mails sent to me over some opinion on AF.
Thats ok. However, send in a conservative if you find some. It might offset some of the liberal leaning folks out there.
Man, I am not going to touch this one. I can only imagine how many far right wing conservatives rumage these boards. I don't want some Pat Buchanan type e-mails sent to me over some opinion on AF.
Thats ok. However, send in a conservative if you find some. It might offset some of the liberal leaning folks out there.
Jay!
01-21-2002, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by YogsVR4
You’ll hear abortion supports claim that the right to life people are trying to control a woman’s body. Perhaps some of them are, however, the right to life people are trying to save what they consider to be the life of a child. The supporters of either side will try and frame the arguments in the best way to demonize the other side. Pro Choice. Of course everyone supports having a choice. But, there are already restrictions on choice. You cant go down the street and chose to kill someone without repercussions. Pro Life. Of course everyone supports life. Only a mentally ill person (terminal, elderly, the stupid and lazy) doesn’t want to live any more.In my own mind, I call them Anti-Choice and Anti-Life avocates.
You’ll hear abortion supports claim that the right to life people are trying to control a woman’s body. Perhaps some of them are, however, the right to life people are trying to save what they consider to be the life of a child. The supporters of either side will try and frame the arguments in the best way to demonize the other side. Pro Choice. Of course everyone supports having a choice. But, there are already restrictions on choice. You cant go down the street and chose to kill someone without repercussions. Pro Life. Of course everyone supports life. Only a mentally ill person (terminal, elderly, the stupid and lazy) doesn’t want to live any more.In my own mind, I call them Anti-Choice and Anti-Life avocates.
Steel
01-21-2002, 08:09 PM
If i HAD a girlfriend.... grrr.....
but that's another topic entirley.
Anyhoo, I wouldn't want to have the child, and if she decided on abortion, i'd be all for it. If she decided to have it, however, I'd be a man and stick around to raise the baby, ONLY if if we are living together, you know. I refuse to send a check every month to some other state for a kid i didnt want in the first place.
but that's another topic entirley.
Anyhoo, I wouldn't want to have the child, and if she decided on abortion, i'd be all for it. If she decided to have it, however, I'd be a man and stick around to raise the baby, ONLY if if we are living together, you know. I refuse to send a check every month to some other state for a kid i didnt want in the first place.
darkness
01-21-2002, 08:16 PM
I would support her in either case. If she didn't want it, thats fine. If she kept it then it would be our kid. It would be harder if we weren't together, but I think I should just be the man and suppor ther if she wanted.
Spec2 Girl
01-21-2002, 09:24 PM
I also wasn’t going to get involved in this thread, but the title of it just keeps bugging me. What do you mean by “Let” her have an abortion. I would hope that it is just a mis-type or that you couldn’t find a better word, because I’m sorry, but at the end of the day it doesn’t come down to whether you’d “let” her or not. What could you possibly do to stop her. If she really wants an abortion she could get one without your permission and you wouldn’t even know about it. Sorry, but that’s the truth!
As far as abortion itself goes I am pleased to see that most of you guys realise that it does take two to tango and that protection against an unwanted pregnancy should never be taken lightly. I would hope that if the relationship was serious enough to lead to pregnancy in the first place that the two people involved should be able to talk about the issue seriously and decide together about what to do.
I for one am glad that the option of abortion is available. I would hate to think that if I was raped and got pregnant that I would have no other choice than to keep the baby. Some of you may think I’m cruel, but I couldn’t face giving birth to a baby and watching it grow up knowing that he/she was a product of a violent and traumatic conception. I just wouldn’t be able to feel the love for him/her like I would if it was a baby conceived out of love for my husband.
As far as abortion itself goes I am pleased to see that most of you guys realise that it does take two to tango and that protection against an unwanted pregnancy should never be taken lightly. I would hope that if the relationship was serious enough to lead to pregnancy in the first place that the two people involved should be able to talk about the issue seriously and decide together about what to do.
I for one am glad that the option of abortion is available. I would hate to think that if I was raped and got pregnant that I would have no other choice than to keep the baby. Some of you may think I’m cruel, but I couldn’t face giving birth to a baby and watching it grow up knowing that he/she was a product of a violent and traumatic conception. I just wouldn’t be able to feel the love for him/her like I would if it was a baby conceived out of love for my husband.
tazdev
01-22-2002, 01:57 AM
If I were in a situation like that then I would tell her how I felt about the situation but let her make up here own mind (it is her body). I would then back her 110% be it financially or emotionally.
Chances are if it did get into a situation like the one mentioned above it would be with someone who I was in a steady reltionship with (don't like all this one night stand shit) and therefore we could talk rationally about it first
Chances are if it did get into a situation like the one mentioned above it would be with someone who I was in a steady reltionship with (don't like all this one night stand shit) and therefore we could talk rationally about it first
Steel
01-22-2002, 03:24 PM
Well see my problem is with my ex. Up until the rocky breakup, everything seemed fine, i could have stayed with her forever. If i had gotten her pregnent, then i would have wanted to stay with her. But seeing as what she did to me, how easily she could change her mind aobut stuff like this, if she just dumped me and waited for money, screw it. Im not going to pay. If my presence isnt good enough for my kid, then neither is my money.
YogsVR4
01-22-2002, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by FTO Girl
I for one am glad that the option of abortion is available. I would hate to think that if I was raped and got pregnant that I would have no other choice than to keep the baby. Some of you may think I’m cruel, but I couldn’t face giving birth to a baby and watching it grow up knowing that he/she was a product of a violent and traumatic conception. I just wouldn’t be able to feel the love for him/her like I would if it was a baby conceived out of love for my husband.
I understand why you can feel that way. But can you honestly say that if the baby were born he/she wouldn't be happy? Its ok to feel selfish and worry about your happyness, we all do the same. (i mean we all are selfish when push comes to shove). I guess I'm just curious.
I for one am glad that the option of abortion is available. I would hate to think that if I was raped and got pregnant that I would have no other choice than to keep the baby. Some of you may think I’m cruel, but I couldn’t face giving birth to a baby and watching it grow up knowing that he/she was a product of a violent and traumatic conception. I just wouldn’t be able to feel the love for him/her like I would if it was a baby conceived out of love for my husband.
I understand why you can feel that way. But can you honestly say that if the baby were born he/she wouldn't be happy? Its ok to feel selfish and worry about your happyness, we all do the same. (i mean we all are selfish when push comes to shove). I guess I'm just curious.
Spec2 Girl
01-22-2002, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by YogsVR4
I understand why you can feel that way. But can you honestly say that if the baby were born he/she wouldn't be happy? Its ok to feel selfish and worry about your happyness, we all do the same. (i mean we all are selfish when push comes to shove). I guess I'm just curious. I just wouldn’t be able to love the child in the same way and to the same extent. Every time I looked at the child I would always see the event that led to the conception and I'm sure my hatred for the father would come across in my actions and words.
The other part of it is that to see the resemblance of your partner in a child would be so amazing. I look at my father-in-law and I can see exactly what my husband is going to look like when he reaches that age. The resemblance is incredible. So to see the face of your rapist looking back at you all the time would be way too traumatic.
Probably not explaining myself too well here, but it’s really hard to put it in words what I’m getting at. :(
I understand why you can feel that way. But can you honestly say that if the baby were born he/she wouldn't be happy? Its ok to feel selfish and worry about your happyness, we all do the same. (i mean we all are selfish when push comes to shove). I guess I'm just curious. I just wouldn’t be able to love the child in the same way and to the same extent. Every time I looked at the child I would always see the event that led to the conception and I'm sure my hatred for the father would come across in my actions and words.
The other part of it is that to see the resemblance of your partner in a child would be so amazing. I look at my father-in-law and I can see exactly what my husband is going to look like when he reaches that age. The resemblance is incredible. So to see the face of your rapist looking back at you all the time would be way too traumatic.
Probably not explaining myself too well here, but it’s really hard to put it in words what I’m getting at. :(
darkness
01-22-2002, 06:42 PM
i know what you mean FTO. A friend of mine had a child, not through rape but a really nasty relationship, and still cares for the child but finds it hard because the kid look so much like the guy.
Spec2 Girl
01-22-2002, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by darkness
i know what you mean FTO. A friend of mine had a child, not through rape but a really nasty relationship, and still cares for the child but finds it hard because the kid look so much like the guy. That’s exactly it! Thanks Darkness. :)
i know what you mean FTO. A friend of mine had a child, not through rape but a really nasty relationship, and still cares for the child but finds it hard because the kid look so much like the guy. That’s exactly it! Thanks Darkness. :)
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