mach1 or lt1 trans am?

Would a stock 03 mustang mach1 with a manual be faster than a 1996 trans am ws6 automatic with flowmaster exhaust,shift kit and a k+n intake?If the two cars were to race would the mach1 win?

Probably depends on the how well the driver of the mustang is with a manual.

with a fairly good driver.

When u say exhaust do u mean muffler or the hole thing? If its just the muffler then i would have to give it to the stang. Otherwise its like tbirdmuscle says. the intake won't help enough to make a big difference. the shift kit if he knows what he is doin will improve his shifting a little bit. I still think the Mach 1 wins. if it were a GT then i think the story would be different.

It is the whole catback exhaust and I forgot headers too.

Well that changes alot now i think the WS6 has it.

I'd take the MACH1 with a good driver.

I'd take the MACH1 with a good driver.
Yup, same!

With headers and everything? I don't know i guess i am just biest to the f-body.

the trans am might pull alittle bit considering its got the shift kit and everything

haha, the GM guys go for the LT1 and the Ford guys go for the Mach 1, who wouldve known...

btw z28boy, that camaro is sexy...

Its not that i am going for the Lt1 cause its a Gm its just that all those mods give me the impression that the Lt1 will hold it down.

Thanks for the compliment. Its not my ride though but it is cool.

I think that it would be the Mach 1 by a bit.

I definetly think it would be a close race with those mods. I just think the MACH1 still will edge it out if the guy can drive. But I can also see why some1 would choose the LT-1 also.

The 2004 Mach 1 has higher hp ratings. Anywho, close race, LT1 has a hint more torque, but considering its 1.1 litre advantage, im not gona get into the technical wars. But I would definately be mustang biased in this race.

I dont see how the T/A would win. Ive seen Mach 1s click off 13.3 stock and 12.9s with just X-pipe and shifter. Unless Im missing something here... :dunno:

Well lets look into what your missing

OK
96 LT1 WS6 Trans AM
Horsepower - 305
Torque - 335
0 - 60 - 5.3 -5.5
1/4 - 13.9 -14.1
Mods -
Catback Exhaust - 15 - 20 Horsepower- .2 -1/4
Headers - 30 Horsepower (stock headers on LT1's are very restrictive and always yield 30 + on the dyno) - .3 1/4
K&N CAI - 19 rear wheel horsepower (dyno proven)
- .2 1/4
Shift Kit I'm assuming transgo cause almost everything else is a waste of money at least - .2 1/4

New Horsepower rating - Min 369
New Torque - Min 350 +
1/4 13.0 - 13.2


03 Mustang Mach 1

Horsepower - 305
Torque- 320
0-60 5.3 -5.5
1/4 Your number 13.3 but most people state 13.6 +

Your right you are missing something

Since when does KnN and Flows gain over 30hp?? :eek7:

Oh and I didnt read that it had headers... Hmmm... If thats the case then it should be a drivers race... :dunno:

Oh and the mach 1 is underrated. It makes around 280 to the rears. :)
Well lets look into what your missing

OK
96 LT1 WS6 Trans AM
Horsepower - 305
Torque - 335
0 - 60 - 5.3 -5.5
1/4 - 13.9 -14.1
Mods -
Catback Exhaust - 15 - 20 Horsepower- .2 -1/4
Headers - 30 Horsepower (stock headers on LT1's are very restrictive and always yield 30 + on the dyno) - .3 1/4
K&N CAI - 19 rear wheel horsepower (dyno proven)
- .2 1/4
Shift Kit I'm assuming transgo cause almost everything else is a waste of money at least - .2 1/4

New Horsepower rating - Min 369
New Torque - Min 350 +
1/4 13.0 - 13.2


03 Mustang Mach 1

Horsepower - 305
Torque- 320
0-60 5.3 -5.5
1/4 Your number 13.3 but most people state 13.6 +

Your right you are missing something

If you read you would see K&N intake which includes a less restrictive intake duct a 9 inch cone K&N filter that hangs under the front fender and yes it has been proven time and time again to yield 19 to the wheels which even if you calculate for drivetrain loss where do you get 30 from that number

If you read you would see K&N intake which includes a less restrictive intake duct a 9 inch cone K&N filter that hangs under the front fender and yes it has been proven time and time again to yield 19 to the wheels which even if you calculate for drivetrain loss where do you get 30 from that number

Hmm... Just to make sure... are we talking ricer intake or manifold? If its like the KnN PIFK, its been dyno proven to make 1-2 hp on most Stangs.


And... you said....

Catback Exhaust - 15 - 20 Horsepower - .2 -1/4
K&N CAI - 19 rear wheel horsepower (dyno proven) - .2 1/4



So add em up... ;)

The LT1 CAI which is the also referred to as the K&N intake is far more productive on LT1's do some research , one way GM detuned the F-body's to have less horse was with the restrictive intake

The LT1 CAI which is the also referred to as the K&N intake is far more productive on LT1's do some research , one way GM detuned the F-body's to have less horse was with the restrictive intake
Why would I reasearch mods on a car that I dont own? :sly:

Because if your going to give biased info you should at least have some type of facts to back it up

I think that it would be the Mach 1 by a bit.
Agree

Because if your going to give biased info you should at least have some type of facts to back it up
What biased info? The info where I dont believe that a CAI gives you 19rwhp or a gain of 20+ on a catback? It just doesnt add up to me. Obviously different cars react to different mods but Ive never heard of a 19rwhp gain from a CAI!

Threadstarter what kind of midpipe is the LT1 using? Long tubes or Shorty headers?

F*ck it... just race. Who gives a shit about other peoples opinion. Get off your lazy ass and race. E-Racing is stupid and not everything happens like its on paper. So GO RACE!

Mach 1 has more HP and better gearing. it should win unless the driver is horrible.

All those HP and ET gains I see are very optomistic IMO.

All those HP and ET gains I see are very optomistic IMO.
Which is why I made this post

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1690936&postcount=26


Theres no point in these threads, itll just give different opinions. Just go and race and post results.

With headers and everything? I don't know i guess i am just biest to the f-body.

Yep I had an F-body once..... Then I got a job!!! :-)~

For Real though, I think the Mach 1 would come out a little short on this race... If the Trans has all the mods stated and the Mach 1 was stock that is... Now if the Mach 1 had simular mods... It would be a whole different story...

Those Trans am are fast I ran against one at my last track outing and had my back side handed me... I ran 12.23 and he ran 11.88...

For all of you who don't know I'm not the one who is racing.My best friend (with the trans am) wants to race my dad (with the mach1).Will they end up racing probably not. It was just one of those who's got the faster car arguments and I figured you guys might have an idea but some people sided with the trans am and some sided with the mach1 .
If they do race it will be friday night at the track and I will tell you guys what they both ran.If not then oh well.My dads mach1 won't be stock for too long anyway.
I was thinking the trans am is faster but then again by dad is so confident on beating the trans am.

What biased info? The info where I dont believe that a CAI gives you 19rwhp or a gain of 20+ on a catback? It just doesnt add up to me. Obviously different cars react to different mods but Ive never heard of a 19rwhp gain from a CAI!

Threadstarter what kind of midpipe is the LT1 using? Long tubes or Shorty headers?
Your first comment you don't think is biased, and yes its your opinion to decide you don't believe that you can get those gains but then you say you don't care about the facts of the other car because you don't own one ,I get it Mustangs Rule , Rock on dude!
And by the way about my lazy Ass I have raced a Mach 1 recently and lets just say it was a sad day for mustangs. But also GTstang your right some of my figures may be off because not all cars even the with the same engines react the same to the same mods so lets say 20 less horse and .2 tenths less it could go either way and I can respect someone thinking that the Mach 1 can win but people don't completely dismiss a car cause your biased towards your make thats just ignorant

The Mach 1 sucks, plain and simple! :screwy:

The Mach 1 sucks, plain and simple! :screwy:
I don't believe that and I know you don't believe that so whatever reason you have for posting this is over my head but I wouldn't just treat a mach 1 like a joke or a slow Cobra because many F-body owners have been stomped by the Mach 1 because they basically treated it like your average GT but the same way I respect your car , I would like the same respect and I don't think that is too much to ask or we can all just stay in our own forums and bash other cars and never venture out to see what the other guy is saying about our cars

Your first comment you don't think is biased, and yes its your opinion to decide you don't believe that you can get those gains but then you say you don't care about the facts of the other car because you don't own one ,I get it Mustangs Rule , Rock on dude!
And by the way about my lazy Ass I have raced a Mach 1 recently and lets just say it was a sad day for mustangs. But also GTstang your right some of my figures may be off because not all cars even the with the same engines react the same to the same mods so lets say 20 less horse and .2 tenths less it could go either way and I can respect someone thinking that the Mach 1 can win but people don't completely dismiss a car cause your biased towards your make thats just ignorant

Uhmm All I said Is that I didnt see how an LT1 with KnN and flows is gonna beat a Mach 1... How is that biased? Jeez. People trying to make this into a Mustang v F-body shit. I didnt even read it had headers. I also questioned a car gaining 19rwhp from an intake because it just sounds absurd. But whatever... Im biased, Youre right. Mustangs do rule. Thats why youre hanging over here. ;)

Back on topic. If the guy in the mach 1 cant drive hell lose. Simple as that. The auto all he has to do is get traction off the line and just let the car shift from there on. The guy in the Mach 1 will need to know how to drive so he can win the race.

So whatever. End of thread. Go tell your dad to race and then post results.

Uhmm All I said Is that I didnt see how an LT1 with KnN and flows is gonna beat a Mach 1... How is that biased? Jeez. People trying to make this into a Mustang v F-body shit. I didnt even read it had headers. I also questioned a car gaining 19rwhp from an intake because it just sounds absurd. But whatever... Im biased, Youre right. Mustangs do rule. Thats why youre hanging over here. ;)
Yeah and I can say that I think its crazy how much horsepower people claim they gain from a supercharger pulley change on the Cobra but that doesn't make it any less true and if I choose not to research it and see that I'm wrong I can go on believing I'm always right and bash everyone else for stating fact. anyway I read this thread and thought your comment sounded biased to me, same way if I said Mach 1 beat a LS1 with a exhaust the ls1 is low 13 second car and with 2 or 3 bolt on gets deep into the 12's am I missing something but It must just be me, And I see gtstang and other Mustangs member post in GM threads so why shouldn't I post in a Ford thread again, You really need to become a little more humble and relize that your not always right and you don't know all the answer's

FormulaLT1 I'm glad you posted in this forum.Especially since it has something to do with a trans am.You own a pontiac so you must know about thease cars (horsepower,1/4 mile times,how fast they go)etc... just like the guys here know their mustangs.I feel if you know what your talking about then you should be able to post in any forum you like especially if your helping someone out.In my case helping me determine which car is possibly the faster car before racing just so I have an idea on what to expect.

Sorry,if my thread started so much trouble.

I think if it is straight line the Mach would win with a good manual driver.

Yeah and I can say that I think its crazy how much horsepower people claim they gain from a supercharger pulley change on the Cobra but that doesn't make it any less true and if I choose not to research it and see that I'm wrong I can go on believing I'm always right and bash everyone else for stating fact. anyway I read this thread and thought your comment sounded biased to me, same way if I said Mach 1 beat a LS1 with a exhaust the ls1 is low 13 second car and with 2 or 3 bolt on gets deep into the 12's am I missing something but It must just be me, And I see gtstang and other Mustangs member post in GM threads so why shouldn't I post in a Ford thread again, You really need to become a little more humble and relize that your not always right and you don't know all the answer's


I have no problem with you posting here! ;-)

But a blower pulley change compared to a K&N intake CAI.... Apples to Oranges....

Ok your right completely different mods but I can tell you first hand and if you look into it that most 90 % of LT1 owners see over 15 + horsepower to the rear wheels and ask any dyno tuner that has worked on LT1 F-body and he will tell you that the stock airbox was purposely made restrictive so as to starve the engine of air and provide less horsepower than the Vette version

well in the way of torque, it doesn't have much more that would make any difference maybe 15 ftlbs if that.. lets just think about this.. mach1 has a supposed underated 305 horespower.. the lt1 comes with 275 and it may be making 300 with the exhaust.. maybe a little more or less.. stock the lt1 probably runs mid to high 14's versus the machs high to mid 13's.. i'm guess the lt1 runs low 14's with the mods.. maybe a 13.9 at best.. now that the facts have been stated, i can say i'm going with the mach1.. Not just cause i'm a ford guy either...

Ur only giving the lt1 25 horse power with all the mods? Thats crazy its not just the muffler. Its the whole system including headers man how can that be only worth 25 horses. It also has the shift kit so u got improved shifting over the manual stang. Its not all about hp. its already been said but here goes race them bi#ches. :evillol:

well what kind of headers are they? shorty headers suck and don't give crap.. my cousin has a 02 firehawk.. he has headers,test pipe, and slp loud mouth catback.. his car is dead nuts even with my 99 Cobra.. i'm actually being modest because when we raced i had a passenger and traction control on.. he was alone and had his TC off... at the time my car only had 4:10 gears.. no exhaust or anything... I think f-body owners go over board with horsepower gains with mods.. my cousin thinks he has 380 HP.. its nonsence.. the only difference in a LT1 with the WS6 package is the ram air ,that supposedly bumps it from 275-285 up to 305, and the suspention.. i don't think ram air can give that kind of power.. same thing with my moms grand am with ram air.. ppl say it gives 5hp.. bull, it doesn't do anything.. ram air has been proven to give .001HP... LT1's are way slower than Ls1 powered F-bodies...i'm totally serious when i say i think it runs mid to high 14's stock...

That's it mid-high 14's.Wow I always thought low 14's for a stock auto lt1.

well in the way of torque, it doesn't have much more that would make any difference maybe 15 ftlbs if that.. lets just think about this.. mach1 has a supposed underated 305 horespower.. the lt1 comes with 275 and it may be making 300 with the exhaust.. maybe a little more or less.. stock the lt1 probably runs mid to high 14's versus the machs high to mid 13's.. i'm guess the lt1 runs low 14's with the mods.. maybe a 13.9 at best.. now that the facts have been stated, i can say i'm going with the mach1.. Not just cause i'm a ford guy either...
You die hard ford guys make me want to buy A-bomb, You've been hitting the smack again if you think a LT1 is a high 14 second car first second you need to learn how to read 275 was the rating for 93 -95 Model F-body's and has been proven to be under rated just like some fords go figure, the 96 WS6 model which was sent to SLP in toms River NJ for modding was rated at 305 Horsepower and I haven't seen one that did anymore than 14.1 1/4 stock and 25 horsepower is F*cking crazy for the mods listed.

deffinatly not low 14's stock... Lt1's are weak if you ask me.. i know this kid who had a firebird and swapped the whole car over to a trans am.. full engine swap and ground effects.. everything.. it was an automatic.. he was running the same 1/8 mile times ass my cousin with an 88 camaro.. those run high 14's all day long.. after that the kid started juicing it so i dunno what he ran in the 1/4.. my cousin said he raced him before on the express way and it was even.. so thats 14.8 for ya..

Dude I'm not even going to get into it , you gotta be kidding me. Its been reported in every car mag and I have seen it first hand that the stock LT1 from 94 - 97 does low 14's, high 13's but they must have all been paid by GM to say that. I really hope you believe this crap, because you really sound like just a really ignorant person who believes everything his ford friends tell him

hey, i'm the first to admitt a slow car.. i bet a mustang GT automatic runs mid to high 14's too.. its around the sdame power rating.. 262 vs. 275..
So can you tell me the difference where the engine goes from 275-305? Sure, maybe SLP gave it a freer flowing exhaust, but i don't see 35 hp comming from that and ram air does crap so.. Man everyones car is underrated these days.. i think thats a dumb way to gain respect.. i will never ever pull the line, Oh, my cars under rated..... dude just face it its a slow car.. i think your just pissed cause your car has an LT1 in it too...

Dude I thought I have met the most moronic people time and time again but you just made my top ten list, You must have no track experience what so ever to talk the sh*t you talk, its a waist of my time to even go over figure's with someone who won't listen anyway so keep on believing LT1's are slow and then that one day your Cobra picks on the wrong LT1 we'll see who is slow

Formula... I notice you get pissed off easily and whenever someone says anything you call them Ford Biased owners... Dude WTF is your problem? Chill out.

Im not even fuckin biased yet youre calling me one. I like F-bodies alot and Ive owned one previously. Jeez. It just seems to me you come here just to fuel some F-body v Stang threads. The LT1s here run low 14s. With those mods I dont see anything better than 13.3-5 unless its on sticky tires. There was a Mach 1 out last friday that ran a 13.1-13.2 and all it had was shifter. Like I said previously, If the guy in the Mach 1 cant drive hes going to lose.

have any of yall bothered to ask formula what he runs and what he has in his car. he speaks of experience. He is only getting mad because for some reason yall can't belive that an lt1 can't do 13's. I my self have seen some fast Lt1's. SInce he does drive an lt1 himself then yall should pay attention to what he says since he is the only one of us here who can really know what an Lt1 is capable of. We have totally gotten off the subject of the race. Now its become ford guys bash the lt1 and the gm guys defend it.

The LT1s here run low 14s. With those mods I dont see anything better than 13.3-5 unless its on sticky tires. There was a Mach 1 out last friday that ran a 13.1-13.2 and all it had was shifter. Like I said previously, If the guy in the Mach 1 cant drive hes going to lose.
I think this pretty much sums it up.
I don't have a hard time at all believing the LT1 runs high 13's, and I think the statement of high 14's is a little exaggerated. I also know the Mach 1 can run low 13's with a very good driver, but to the average Joe it will be more like mid to upper 13's because of driver error.

have any of yall bothered to ask formula what he runs and what he has in his car. he speaks of experience. He is only getting mad because for some reason yall can't belive that an lt1 can't do 13's. I my self have seen some fast Lt1's. SInce he does drive an lt1 himself then yall should pay attention to what he says since he is the only one of us here who can really know what an Lt1 is capable of. We have totally gotten off the subject of the race. Now its become ford guys bash the lt1 and the gm guys defend it.

Correction Ford "GUY"... only one has bashed the LT1 in this thread. I know LT1s are capable of 13s. I really dont care anymore. This thread has run its course already.

This is what I dont like... When one guy says something he then goes and lumps everyone in here with the guy. If JoeschmoeGT said "LT1 sucks nuts and are slow" Hell go say "WHY ARE ALL MUSTANG OWNERS BIASED?!?!" Dude.... Seriously stop that.:disappoin

I think this pretty much sums it up.
I don't have a hard time at all believing the LT1 runs high 13's, and I think the statement of high 14's is a little exaggerated. I also know the Mach 1 can run low 13's with a very good driver, but to the average Joe it will be more like mid to upper 13's because of driver error.
Yeah... Ive also seen a Mach 1 driver run 14.4s. :disappoin

Yea K&N are good mods. They do have better but K&N are good balence of price and performance. Also i dont really like Shorty headers either.

Formula... I notice you get pissed off easily and whenever someone says anything you call them Ford Biased owners... Dude WTF is your problem? Chill out.

Im not even fuckin biased yet youre calling me one. I like F-bodies alot and Ive owned one previously. Jeez. It just seems to me you come here just to fuel some F-body v Stang threads. The LT1s here run low 14s. With those mods I dont see anything better than 13.3-5 unless its on sticky tires. There was a Mach 1 out last friday that ran a 13.1-13.2 and all it had was shifter. Like I said previously, If the guy in the Mach 1 cant drive hes going to lose.
I get pissed by the fact that you refused to see how a LT1 could posibly beat a Mach 1 which yes I consider biased , same way I think some LS1 owner's think a Mach 1 can't beat them. Also I have modded my car I have spent time researching dyno figures seeing what people who own the cars say how the car ran after the mod, see what people after they did how much they gained and asking what they run in the 1/4 . I then starting moding my car using the performance parts and testing what gains & loses sometimes unfortantly because like I said before not every car even with the same engine react the same. I have first hand experience so even though you know a guy or you think based on how much a Mustang would gain he should run this. I know first hand what he should gain and how much faster he should run , sameway if someone came to me with 2003 Mustang GT mods and I based that he should run different numbers than you said. I think that everyone should go with what you said because you have first hand experience and I don't. also I never tried to turn this into a Mustang Vs F-body thread If anything I praise the Mustang and I'm one of the last people to put down Mustang but I did call you out on what you said no one else until that moron showed up. I never said all you Mustang owner are all alike I responded to just you so maybe your the one trying to start a flame war. Peace

Ok an LT1 is a solid low 14 second car to high 13's in stock trim. I'll be honest and think high 13's is more of the acception to that rule but definetly possible cause I have seen it.

Formula you need to be careful about grouping people together... Just cause I think the MACH1 will win doesn't make me baised. That's like me turning around and saying cause you think the LT1 will win your baised.

I am no automotive expert, but here are a few of my experiences. I got a 97 WS6 T/A as an early graduation present. We are a car family. I had a 91 firebird so you can imagine the hell I gave it. It was mostly stock, except for elderbrock headers, k&N, and other little things. I raced it once on the 1/8 mile. I pulled a 8.8 after a few tries (Auto). I dont know how that relates to 1/4. I got an offer on it more than I had in it so I let her go and my dad agreed that we would find a newer model since 02 was their last year. Then somehow I came across my dream car. A 02 red WS6 T/A 10000 miles (Auto) I wanted a 6 speed at the time but glad i have the auto now b/c we moved into town. I never took it to track, but have raced 3 times. The first was an one time friends 99 z28 It beat him off the line good but he kept up. My manager at work had a 99 cobra (I know this is going to cause an argument but Iam sorry.) We tried it in the parking lot but neither could get much traction, and we spun all over the lot. I dont know how we didnt run into each other. So we waited till we left work at about 1 am and it was cold that night. We decied the stoping point, a school about a 1/2 mile from foodlion. And we both got off good but I pulled away and stayed ahead. we had to cut it a little early. (headlights coming) but we were still good friends after the race. Which I dont think yaw could ever be friends with someone you race. Too competetive. Any way I got a little cocky and my grandpa told me to bring the car to the house b/c I told him I could keep up with his 01 convertible Vette. I knew he would win, but he shut me up quick. Any way this only proves one thing A Vette is the bad ass king Under 60 or 70000 anyway.

But also GTstang your right some of my figures may be off because not all cars even the with the same engines react the same to the same mods so lets say 20 less horse and .2 tenths less it could go either way and I can respect someone thinking that the Mach 1 can win but people don't completely dismiss a car cause your biased towards your make thats just ignorant
Did I not make this statement , was that in another thread or something and when have I ever said your all biased , I said I thought dkshadow's statement was biased cause he dismissed the car without even bothering to read the mods or even looking at the figure's, That is totally biased in my book