beginning/end of the Universe

this probably has already been discussed, but instead of bringing up an old thread i'll just start a new one

this thread is meant to be a spot to discuss our individual beliefs on the beginning and end of the Universe, below is my idea of it:

while reading Stephen Hawking's books on the Universe(specifically when he was talking about the big bang and the end of the Universe) i came up with an idea that if true would mean that the Universe is neverending and God created it (well, it could still have an ending, but you'd have to get pretty technical) and there was a big bang. see, in one of Hawking's books i read about the Universe expanding, and gravity could possibly slow and eventually reverse the expansion, which would bring the Universe back towards where it started (assuming the Big Bang theory is correct) and i think gravity would bring it back to a singular which would then become another big bang, creating a "new" Universe, and if true would mean the Universe as we know it would have a beginning and end

please tell me what you think of this, and if i didn't explain something engouh just ask and i'll try my best to explain it more, and if anyone has heard of something like this before in a book or by a physicist please tell me where i can find it

The Yo Yo effect huh?

yea, i guess thats a pretty good way of describing it

that's one possibility. The other as that it will keep expanding forever.

Has it been proven that there is a beginning or end? What if the concepts of beginning and end don't apply to universes?

my idea actually means it has no beginning or end, it just sorta renews itself every so often

How 'bout this.
Think of how the the magnetic field surrounding the Earth flips every few eons, it more or less turns itself inside out.
What if the "big bang" was one of those occuraces.
An occurance where the entire universe reverses itself kinda like switching from a positve photo to a negative. But in a four dimentional space.
There is no beginning or end, it just does.

And yes, it is okay to question a quadropolegic who's happens to be one of the smartest people alive, don't be afraid.
It's not like he's gonna hit you if you piss him off about who's right and who's wrong.

lambo/rocks, remember. there is no spoon. hee hee

1) LAMBORGHINI RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!
2) I want a 6.0 GT, or Roadster (all diablo) or just a 6.0 2001.
3) you're talking about the big crunch...The complete oposite of the big bag. Matter is destroyed, not created.

How 'bout this.
Think of how the the magnetic field surrounding the Earth flips every few eons, it more or less turns itself inside out.
What if the "big bang" was one of those occuraces.
An occurance where the entire universe reverses itself kinda like switching from a positve photo to a negative. But in a four dimentional space.
There is no beginning or end, it just does.
really? i've never heard of our magnetic field flipping, i'm not saying you're wrong, just it surprises me, could you explain the effects of it flipping, i don't quite understand it, thanks

And yes, it is okay to question a quadropolegic who's happens to be one of the smartest people alive, don't be afraid.
It's not like he's gonna hit you if you piss him off about who's right and who's wrong.
in his books that i've read he doesn't really say if he thinks one specific view of the end of the Universe is true, he just states both of the possibilites (expanding forever, or reversing and end up with the big crunch) i think with this i'm just basically expanding on the idea that it will stop expanding, i'm basically saying what could possibly happen once it gets to the Big Crunch (which would be that it turns into another big bang)

lambo/rocks, remember. there is no spoon. hee hee
"my spoon is too big!!" is from a animated short film called "Rejected", its really hilarious, if you have some sort of thing like Kazaa you should download it

I was watching NOVA a couple of weeks ago. And it was about the very subject.
The magnetic field that surrounds the Earth and give us our directional sense, (there's even a little compass in your nose) magnetic north and magnetic south and whatnot. It was found in rock layers that every few thousand years there is a complete flip of the magnetic field. It is constantly moving albeit very slow to human standards but lightning quick in universal time. I believe (I can't remember the details of the show)it was discovered by accident in samples of rock. The crystaline structure of the magnetic elements in said rock all line up in the same direction as magnetic north depending on when the crystaline structure initially formed. A few thousand years later they found, in crabon dating of the rocks, a 180 degree switch in which way all the magnetic elements in the rock lined up. And this was concluded from rock layers from all over the globe. Now they have equipment to view and simulate the magnetic field around the planet and view it's progresion, since it is in the process of flipping. :eek:

well if the matter has always been here then there is no real beggining or end.......... and if you've read the universe in a nutshell you will discover that he believes that the big bang would be the perverbial creation, because it was the beggining of time, but not the creation of per-say: the universe, i think a more adequite title would be the begining/end of time; don't you?

and one thing that i have failed to determine from hawkings books is how he thinks "the universe" got here ot what started the big bang, i think he was mentioned string theory, and the whole idea of the p-branes colliding, but doesn't go into specifics onto what he believes, granted that his books are for educational purposes not to anounce what he believes, he only publishes what HE perceives as fact, so i guess he can't go into much detail on things that actually matter like: origin without the fear that someone might prove him wrong the second his book is published......

really? i've never heard of our magnetic field flipping, i'm not saying you're wrong, just it surprises me, could you explain the effects of it flipping, i don't quite understand it, thanks




it does, it's called "palaeomagnatism"

only happens every few million years i think. I should know I just learned it a few weeks ago in Geology!

I think the only affect is, is that our magnetic north, becomes south, and vice versa, no real damage done, but I could be wrong.
Also, it affects animals relying on the poles, for example, bats (i think) have a sence of which is north and south (for migration) and some birds, someone correct me on this.

Not being a physics major, I can't very well answer this question, but has anyone here considered the possible effects of a multiverse system? If so, what do you guys think would the be the three dimesnional/physical consequences/effects of this system.

For those who don't know, a multiverse system is essentially a system where our universe as we know it is infintely splitting off into brother universes along the basic idea of parallel universes. Think of it as sort of a fifth dimesnional realm of existence.

Also, I don't know exactly how this helps the discussion, but I heard/read that NASA was conducting an experiment where they were looking for repeated gamma ray patterns in the universe possible suggesting whether or not the universe is finite or infinite. Unfortunately, I don't believe the experiment is finished.

BTW: Lamborghinirocks, Rejected is incredible (hence my avatar). And by the way, I AM A BANANA!

gravity could possibly slow and eventually reverse the expansion, which would bring the Universe back towards where it started (assuming the Big Bang theory is correct) and i think gravity would bring it back to a singular which would then become another big bang, creating a "new" Universe, and if true would mean the Universe as we know it would have a beginning and endIt's been shown that the rate of the expansion of the universe is increasing with no end in sight. No "Big Crunch," sorry.

And regarding the Big Bang theory, it's been slightly modified with the advent of Super String Theory. I'm not qualified enough to give you the details, but the theory basically sets up a multi-dimensional multi-verse. It envisions a multiverse system somewhat like a stack of cut bread with gaps between each slice. Each slice, or membrane, represents its own universe with its own set of physics laws. These membranes tend to vibrate, and in the event that one vibrates violently enough to collide with another membrane, a Big Bang-like event occurs.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I most likely am, in some parts), but that's what scientists are thinking.

sounds about right there, but I'm a little confused by your statement about each multiverse abiding by its own physics laws.
Anyhow, here's an interesting question. If hte idea of multiverses is true and our universe is infinitely spliting off, then time would essentially be defined by the continuum created by the alignment of a certain strand of these multiverses. therefore, the big bang if it occured, happened in another multiverse. Then again, that brings up the question of how we could "view" the big bang now or view past events due to our acceleration. Then again, I suppose this is a major conflict with the idea of multiverses.

Food for thought

from what i've read string theory is still far from being proven or from having people totally sold on it, i've read that theres quite a few people working on it to develop it completely, but they have yet to confirm it through observation

Also, could you point me towards where you found out that they have proven that the Universe is going to keep expanding?

Also, could you point me towards where you found out that they have proven that the Universe is going to keep expanding?I first heard about this from a NOVA documentary I watched several months back on PBS, and then I read about it in some scientific magazine. Science or Scientific American should have something on their websites about this.

I'm a little confused by your statement about each multiverse abiding by its own physics laws.For example, in the universe that we are familiar with, all of the fundamental forces have a plus and minus component. Electricity has positive and negative charge, and Magnetism has north and south poles. Gravity, however, possesses no anti-component. Gravity attracts bodies; it doesn't repel them. An anti-gravity force hasn't been found.

Scientists theorize that in a multiple universe, forces that don't exist in this universe, such as anti-gravity, would be present.

read "Timeline" in the beginning the do a pretty good job of explaining the whole parallel universes thing. and again... read "angels and demons" for another look on multiple universe theory.

from what i've read string theory is still far from being proven or from having people totally sold on it, i've read that theres quite a few people working on it to develop it completely, but they have yet to confirm it through observation

Also, could you point me towards where you found out that they have proven that the Universe is going to keep expanding?

Well it actually wil never be trully proven through observation. That is we can only "accurately" percieve three dimensions (though that is also subject to another philosophical discussion) and four is a stretch (notice how we cannot definitively define time). Super String theory not only involves 11 dimensions but illustrates how they are put together. Basic human capabilities limit us from ever proving this conjecture through observation. Even if we can offer a lot of physical evidence to support it, super string theory as far as I know cannot be proven.