Who else exagerated the claims of iraq?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3576905.stm

Who other then the bestest of US allies.

I should rather say made up/agenda, rather then exagerated.. but anyways..

Blah Blah Blah. Same stuff different day.

Same shit different day time to move on!

Same shit different day time to move on!

I don't think it's quite time to move on yet... Bush made countless statements he couldn't back up, every night practically. They've all turned out to be false, his intelligence experts say that's what they were telling him all along, his weapons inspectors in Iraq have gone home, saying there are no WMD's, and there most likely haven't been any since '98.

That means he was feeding us a big crock of shit, and if I was an American citizen, I'd probably be pretty pissed off about it. Being a Canadian citizen however, I just laughed when I heard the claims in the first place, as did most other non Americans.

That means he was feeding us a big crock of shit, and if I was an American citizen, I'd probably be pretty pissed off about it. Being a Canadian citizen however, I just laughed when I heard the claims in the first place, as did most other non Americans.
Yeah, because we're just the stupid Americans right? You cocky, arrogant, fascist POS. You're so much more righteous than us Americans right?

Yeah, because we're just the stupid Americans right? You cocky, arrogant, fascist POS. You're so much more righteous than us Americans right?
What caused this outburst? Was it the criticism of Israeli intelligence or the endless stream of lies revealed?

Your anger should be directed at those who lied to you rather than at those who tried to warn you.

The time to clean house is well overdue. The people of the US have done it before and they can do it again - if they act before it's too late.
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With regard to the article itself. It seems like the Israelis had their own version of the "Office of Special Plans". The tactic used in both intelligence communities is commonly known a stove-piping. They need to clean house as well.

If you are unaware of the "Office of Special Plans" then this link will enlighten you:
http://fairuse.1accesshost.com/news1/kwiatkowski.html

Yeah, because we're just the stupid Americans right? You cocky, arrogant, fascist POS. You're so much more righteous than us Americans right?
Hmmm. Since I agree with him, am I all of those too? I'm American. I served my country in Desert Storm.

I served my state as a Corrections Officer.

I was also a spoiled, rich brat like you, that decided to find his own way in the world. My dad is still conservative, and frankly, so am I. You consider yourself one...then why are you supporting a war that has LIBERAL stamped all-over it?

FYI: I was for the war. But in hindsight, my support was gained by nothing more than lies, which REALLY irks me. Besides, a TRUE conservative would've kicked-ass, and went home. None of this spending billions of American taxpayer money for "rebuilding", when most of the world's money (in the form of oil) probably lies underneath the sand of Iraq.

Read this: http://theboywhocriediraq.com/

I love the comparisons to Thir Reich. BTW, you DO know that Dubya's Grandpaw, Prescott Bush was the Director of a bank that was investigated, and had funds seized for having financed Adolph Hitler, right? http://www.thedubyareport.com/family.html#prescott Here it is, also, from the Administration mouthpiece itself, FoxNews: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100474,00.html

As a matter of fact, I think I will start a new thread, detailing the Bush-Nazi connection timeline I found.

You're a capitalistic, daddy's-money-sucking kinda guy right? (From the recent assessments of you I've read, at least, as I haven't been visiting here long) Where in the near, far or ANY future do you see any return on our 87-billion (and counting) "investment" in Iraq?

Yeah, because we're just the stupid Americans right? You cocky, arrogant, fascist POS. You're so much more righteous than us Americans right?

Shit like this makes me ashamed to be American at times, "Yeah, because we're just the stupid Americans right?" Well, the rest of your post says all signs point to yes.

Hmmm. Since I agree with him, am I all of those too? I'm American. I served my country in Desert Storm.

I served my state as a Corrections Officer.

I was also a spoiled, rich brat like you, that decided to find his own way in the world. My dad is still conservative, and frankly, so am I. You consider yourself one...then why are you supporting a war that has LIBERAL stamped all-over it?

FYI: I was for the war. But in hindsight, my support was gained by nothing more than lies, which REALLY irks me. Besides, a TRUE conservative would've kicked-ass, and went home. None of this spending billions of American taxpayer money for "rebuilding", when most of the world's money (in the form of oil) probably lies underneath the sand of Iraq.

Read this: http://theboywhocriediraq.com/

I love the comparisons to Thir Reich. BTW, you DO know that Dubya's Grandpaw, Prescott Bush was the Director of a bank that was investigated, and had funds seized for having financed Adolph Hitler, right? http://www.thedubyareport.com/family.html#prescott Here it is, also, from the Administration mouthpiece itself, FoxNews: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100474,00.html

As a matter of fact, I think I will start a new thread, detailing the Bush-Nazi connection timeline I found.

You're a capitalistic, daddy's-money-sucking kinda guy right? (From the recent assessments of you I've read, at least, as I haven't been visiting here long) Where in the near, far or ANY future do you see any return on our 87-billion (and counting) "investment" in Iraq?

You're couldn't be more wrong. What you've read is a complete shot in the dark, bullshit opinion of some guy 1500 miles forom where I live. He doesn't know me and I don't know him. SO DON'T FREAKING ASSUME THINGS ABOUT PEOPLE! I'm not interested in hearing you guys bullshit about my character, so let's stay on topic. This is pissing me off. I don't wnat anymore stupid-ass guessing games on why I am conservative, so lay off.

If you are conservative as you say and you vote for Kerry, you are A) plain ignorant B) not a conservative 3) so blinded by the fallicies of George Bush you will vote for a guy 10 times worse than him or 4) blinded by your senseless "investigations" that you post about on here all the time.

Take a damn minute and realize that Kerry is the MOST LIBERAL PERSON IN THE WHOLE DAMN GOVERNMENT. He is a turn-coat, a liar, a coward, and an immoral bastard.

Hey, you served in Desert Storm, so I guess you have the right to say all this. But I guarantee you are about 1 or 2% of veterans that want John Kerry in office. You ought to hate the guy for what he has done to this country.

Shit like this makes me ashamed to be American at times, "Yeah, because we're just the stupid Americans right?" Well, the rest of your post says all signs point to yes.
Read the arrogant context of his post and then tell me that this guy's underlying message is not that us americans are stupid band-wagon followers. You should be ashamed if you agree with this guy on anything.

And your post wasn't arrogant how?

I know it, and I would guess most other people know it's all about oil. Would you rather be riding in a buggy behind a horse swatting at flies? Yes it's an unpopular conflict now, but most everyone supported it at the time. If you didn't think it was about oil, why aren't we attacking Pakistan, India, China, etc.

I know it, and I would guess most other people know it's all about oil. Would you rather be riding in a buggy behind a horse swatting at flies? Yes it's an unpopular conflict now, but most everyone supported it at the time. If you didn't think it was about oil, why aren't we attacking Pakistan, India, China, etc.
Aside from the oil motive, Pakistan, India and China actually do have WMD - great big !@#$-off shiny ones.

...I'm not interested in hearing you guys bullshit about my character, so let's stay on topic. This is pissing me off. I don't wnat anymore stupid-ass guessing games on why I am conservative, so lay off.
Remind me again who started the personal insults in this thread? Don't dish it if you can't take it!

......If you are conservative as you say and you vote for Kerry, you are A) plain ignorant B) not a conservative 3) so blinded by the fallicies of George Bush you will vote for a guy 10 times worse than him or 4) blinded by your senseless "investigations" that you post about on here all the time.........

......Hey, you served in Desert Storm, so I guess you have the right to say all this. But I guarantee you are about 1 or 2% of veterans that want John Kerry in office. You ought to hate the guy for what he has done to this country.
There you go again trying to categorize people into tidy little pigeon holes. (e.g. the Bush vs Saddam poll) Life's not so simple and neither are people.

Yeah, because we're just the stupid Americans right? You cocky, arrogant, fascist POS. You're so much more righteous than us Americans right?

Read the arrogant context of his post and then tell me that this guy's underlying message is not that us americans are stupid band-wagon followers. You should be ashamed if you agree with this guy on anything.


Pick, you just can't make up your mind about me, can you! I've gone from a bleedingheart liberal to an arrogant fascist, how does that work?

It's a natural reaction to trust what you're told by the government of your country, after all, they're entrusted with more power than anyone else, so that they can make the right decisions and act in the best interests of the people.

When the people you have entrusted to act for you, and in your interests, lie to you to garner your support for an action that serves only their own narrow interests, at incredible expense to your people of life, diplomatic relations with the rest of the world, and hundreds of billions of dollars, that might just irk you a little bit. It would certainly piss me off.

I don't trust the US government, I see no reason to, they have a long standing record of saying one thing, doing another, and presenting it to the American people as justified with fecicious reasoning, and often outright lies. As a Canadian, I'm well acquainted with these practices, because I see the effects of them daily. So unlike you, I don't hold a rosey view of the Bush adminstration. I hated the Clinton administration, and Bush's regime is easily twice as despicable.

You have misconstrued all of this, because you want me to be anti-American, so you can just label as a bigot, and not have to think that maybe, just *maybe* there are justifiable reasons behind my opinion, which while opposed to yours completely, carries just as much merit. I'm not going to say my opinion is more informed than yours, as that *would* be arrogant, but my opinion is informed from different sources than yours is. You write off my viewpoint and opinion as anti-American, without even considering how I might have REACHED that perspective. That is profoundly ignorant, and arrogant.

Frankly, I'm sick of hearing your offensive and inflammatory remarks. You never have anything to add to a discussion, you just start an argument based on your ideals, and end up pissing everyone off. This is the third time you've personally insulted me, and it'll be the last time.

Pick: Don't construe this is as an insult. It's an observation...if you are an example of the average Bush voter, it really explans a WHOLE lot.

Let's enumerate:

1) You're quick to file people into a category, irregardless of how little you know about them, where they stand, and what their rationalization's are for whatever decisions they have made. This is perfect for your acceptance of Bush's neat categorization of "the enemy", and whoever he happens to include in that category. BTW, anybody that doesn't support HIM is against America, if you are to believe him...and you sound like you do.

2) Your statement that I am "so blinded by the fallicies of George Bush you will vote for a guy 10 times worse than him" clearly shows an apparent lack of communication skill, hence very sympathetic towards a grammatically-challenged President, where an insult on his "Bushisms" becomes a personal attack on you, for you are most certainly, feeling his pain.

3) The fact that you say that Kerry is ten times worse than Bush. That clearly shows that you have bit into the propaganda, and have failed to realize one is exactly just as bad as the other. The biggest difference is the fact that the Republican-controlled Congress will oppose one, while debasing themselves in front of the other...therefore upsetting the natural balance that the Founders envisioned between the Executive, and Legislative branches. Guess which one's which.

4) The fact that you are of the opinion that MOST Veterans are FOR Bush. It shows how out-of-touch you really are. I suggest you do a search on Google for the exact expression: "Veterans for Kerry", and browse through the hits. I suggest you start with this: http://www.vietnamwar.net/

Who do YOU know that is a Veteran? My father-in-law is a Vietnam Vet, and he's FOR Kerry. My father is a lifelong Executive type, and he's for Bush. Does that tell you something?

Let me educate you on something. If I had a choice of who would be (or should've been) President, it would have, and still is, Sen. John McCain. The same man that the Bush campaign used to smear Sen. McCain, is also the same man that would now have you believe that Vets are against Kerry with the website he started. "Which one?" you ask? why the http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.org/ website of course. "Who is the founder?" His name is Ted Sampley, and you can learn more about him here: http://www.miafacts.org/prankster.htm and about his tactics against both Kerry and McCain here: http://sadparade.typepad.com/sad_parade/2004/02/who_is_ted_samp.html

5) I have waxed on about a many things in this reply, and many other replies and threads I have started.

I have posted countless links that supports my statement yet, instead of opening your eyes, you have claimed me "blinded". How assumptive and frankly, ignorant.

If anything, my eyes have been opened, as I was just as you were, and voted for Bush in the last election.

The most important fact that jumps out about you, as an example of a Bush supporter is this: you won't do your own research. Go ahead. Quit pointing out Kerry's foibles to me, as I know, and accept them, with the confidence that the (few) true Conservatives in Congress will handle him.

Do your own research about Bush, and I dare you to look beyond whitehouse.org for your material. I caution you though, I won't accept opinion pieces from biased sources. Give me facts. I challenge you to DISPROVE any Bush fact I have linked to. I doubt if you can though...because that would require you to read through the material I have read through...which emphasizes my point. You are PRIME for Bush's propaganda, for you are far too lazy to find information on your own, and have fallen into accepting whatever Bush's machine spoon-feeds you.

BTW, about me not being conservative...let's just say I hold the same opinion as this guy: http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/bush30mar04.html

C'mon man. come at me with some sources and facts! Yogs, if you can, try to stay out of this one. Let's see if this kid actually has an opinion, or even balls, that are genuinely his, as opposed to simply a repeater for whatever propaganda the White House is spreading currently.

Umm, not to burst your bubble, but I don't think Pick will be reading/responding to that anytime soon...

Umm, not to burst your bubble, but I don't think Pick will be reading/responding to that anytime soon...

I guess in the end, THAT was my point...oh well. :disappoin

Oh well, you can rest easy tonight, because you know it would've been total ownage...

Oh well, you can rest easy tonight, because you know it would've been total ownage...

Oh wait...I didn't even know he was banned. I thought you just meant that he didn't have the motivation to read and respond to my challenge!

Bush, Kerry oh what's the difference? I'm a Vietnam Era veteran and I voted for Bush. The Democrats want to take away basic rights of the people. The Republicans want to kiss up to big business, so what else is new. In the end, it's big business that really runs the country anyway. I don't bad mouth other countries and their policies, but I could just as easily as others do mine. The US has gone through many changes politically and survived very well, can you say the same of other countries?

The Democrats want to take away basic rights of the people. The Republicans want to kiss up to big business, so what else is new.


Well, that's interesting, I think. I don't think I've ever really seen an instance where the democrats want to actually take away a constitutional right, certainly not the core rights of Americans.

Bush on the other hand, has expanded the powers the police and intelligence agencies to the point where they are heavily infringing upon the freedoms and rights of Americans. For instance, the expansion of the phone tap warrant from being a warrant for a specific phone line, to being a warrant that covers any phone that the suspect may be likely to use, including friends, family, phones at work, etc.

If you ask me, the PATRIOT act is scary. PATRIOT 2 is reportedly being filtered through congress, incorporated into unrelated bills... I can't find the link for where I read that though. :icon16:


In the end, it's big business that really runs the country anyway. I don't bad mouth other countries and their policies, but I could just as easily as others do mine. The US has gone through many changes politically and survived very well, can you say the same of other countries?

Big business runs either party, it's just that they have different ideologies about how to divy up the taxes. The republicans would rather have low tax rates, and fewer services. If everyone has to pay a flat fee for a service, let's say $50, as opposed to 200 million taxpayers having to pay $10 trillion, with 90% of that $10 trillion being payed by the richest 1%, that means that the average consumer will have $50 less to spend, while the average billionaire will have another million to play with. Now if that billionaire invests that money in a corporation that uses the money to create jobs, and every dollar you have given him makes its way back to the bottom of the food chain, it'll create growth in the economy. If at any point however, the billionaire invests the money outside of the US, or sends it to a tax haven, or it is invested in a company that doesn't use it to create jobs, then it won't encourage growth.

You can be damned well guaranteed that the lower income taxpayers will spend that $50, or at least put it into a retirement plan. When they spend it, on products or services, they are fueling the economy at the base level, what it's supposed to be about. If a company sells more products, then it grows, it is worth more, it increases it's production and creates jobs.

If to finance a tax break you have to privatize or stop funding a service, that means the users of the service will have to pay for it, and that means that they won't have that money to spend on products and services. The increased consumer spending and resulting growth won't be there, all you'll have is a billionaire with another million dollars coming in every year.


Oh wait...I didn't even know he was banned. I thought you just meant that he didn't have the motivation to read and respond to my challenge!

I'll lift the ban for a few days if you'd like, I want to hear this! :iceslolan

Speaking of job creations...(I'm suprised someone didn't jump on this when it was announced.)
300,000+ new jobs in the US last month? What do you think will happen to sKerrys election chances if this continues? I think he needs to start thinking of another platform to base his election on. Maybe the Veitnam thing huh?

The Democrats are the ones always lobbying to push more gun controls. California's Senators don't want the average person to have guns (which is a whole other argument) but their personal guards may have them. This is one of the orginal constitutional rights.

Police and other agencies have been tapping your lines for decades. Today if you send an e-mail with targeted words (you make up your own) you may get a visit from one of the government agencies.

Job increases? What a joke. What sector is that in, "Do you want fries with that"? Computer programmers are working for less than half of what they commanded before thanks to out sourcing. Technical jobs are on their way out because of corporate greed. The only thing left will be clerical and burger flipping. I'm an old dinosaur in a telecom field, my son is a college grad with a degree in chemistry. He'll be lucky to make what I make in the next few years. He's currently earning half of what I make.

Therefore, don't think any one political party is holier than the other. You may think that the Democrats are great because of Kerry, but did you vote for Clinton? Remember what his stand was on war and military service? Everyone has something to hide.

Since the early 90s 355,000 jobs were lost due to outsourcing. Over 1,000,000 were lost to technology advances which made it possible for either machines or fewer people to do the same work it took more people to do. Over 600,000 jobs are currently being outsourced to the US today.

Is outsourcing the real problem?

Who thinks the Democrats are great because of sKerry? Whoever it is should have his head examined. Don't even get me started with Clinton. I've never seen anyone who is as proud of the fact that he is a fool than him. Anyway that's thankfully in the past.

Over 1,000,000 were lost to technology advances which made it possible for either machines or fewer people to do the same work it took more people to do. Over 600,000 jobs are currently being outsourced to the US today.

Is outsourcing the real problem?

.

It is corporate greed. Yes technology makes it possible for one person to do the job of many, BUT remember, Jack of all Trades, Master of None. During the course of my job, I'm taking the responsibilities of what others used to do via a wireless connection through a laptop, the only problem is, now my production on my actual work suffers because I have to take the TIME to stop my work to do what others could have been doing while I'm doing my job. In business, time is money, but of course the industry I work in was a public utility that really had no knowledge of how to make a profit on it's own. Now that they have to, the only way they know how is to cut cost. We've had marketing people come out to talk to us in the field to ask us to look for marketing refferals :eek7: while they sit on their asses in the office. I asked them if they went out on "cold calling" and they didn't know what that was :uhoh: .

Yes, outsourcing will be a problem, because they are basically contractors who really don't give a damn about job quality, they don't have to see the customer face to face like I have to.

The Democrats are the ones always lobbying to push more gun controls. California's Senators don't want the average person to have guns (which is a whole other argument) but their personal guards may have them. This is one of the orginal constitutional rights.


The right to own a handgun and restrictions are two very different things. If you want a gun for legal purposes, what is the harm in applying for a license and registering it? You still have the gun, you are still free to use it as you see fit, but now, if it's stolen, or you sell it, the police have a serial number they can work with.

In Canada, you need a license to own a gun. Anyone over the age of 18 can apply for a license, you just have to write a basic test, show competence in handling the weapon, and pay a licensing fee. You need the license to buy ammunition, guns, or even components.

It's a big hassle, but you can bet that the average street thug is not going to go through that process, and will just get an illegal handgun. If the cops catch him with that gun, now they have something they can charge him with, and start pressuring him with.



Police and other agencies have been tapping your lines for decades. Today if you send an e-mail with targeted words (you make up your own) you may get a visit from one of the government agencies.


Indeed, but these powers have been expanded by Bush.


Job increases? What a joke. What sector is that in, "Do you want fries with that"? Computer programmers are working for less than half of what they commanded before thanks to out sourcing. Technical jobs are on their way out because of corporate greed. The only thing left will be clerical and burger flipping. I'm an old dinosaur in a telecom field, my son is a college grad with a degree in chemistry. He'll be lucky to make what I make in the next few years. He's currently earning half of what I make.

Exactly. The good jobs are leaving the country, or disappearing, and the only jobs left are service industry jobs. An economy can't run on the service industry. Maybe if steps were made to do something about the massive trade deficit, there wouldn't be such a problem.

This is getting off-topic now but with regard to the other posts about new jobs I'd ask the following questions.

How many of those jobs are filling in for part time soldiers deployed in Iraq?
How many of those jobs are in the private sector?
How many of those jobs are in the defence sector and as such paid for by the taxpayer?
What has been the movement in the average wage/salary? (an indication of the type of jobs)

Someone mentioned corporate greed. A corporation has only 2 objectives, to profit and to grow. A conscience is not an inherent part of it's make-up. This is something that has to be applied to it from outside.

Long ago, a government would revoke a corporations charter for bad behaviour effectively killing the corporation. This hasn't been done for so long it doesn't matter anymore. This is the main reason I lean towards nationalisation of key infracstructure, or at least enough of it to keep things honest.

As an example, here in NZ when the Electricity sector was wholly government owned, we had some of the cheapest power in the world. Enter privatisation and the price of energy has increased 1000% over the 15 odd years since. Even the state owned energy companies are focusing on return to the shareholder and playing the oligarchy games in the market with all the others.

As for outsourcing, I read somewhere that small arms ammo for the US military is imported from Russia and previously came from China. Is this true?

Someone mentioned corporate greed. A corporation has only 2 objectives, to profit and to grow. A conscience is not an inherent part of it's make-up. This is something that has to be applied to it from outside.


I did. Our jobs have been cut, people forced to take lower paying jobs within the company, the CEO and other officers have had their pay and bonuses increase by the millions each year. Okay, I understand about the company growth and such, but the stock holders better wake up soon, as the officer's wages and bonuses increase, the stock value has decreased by 50%. Who's screwing who?

I did. Our jobs have been cut, people forced to take lower paying jobs within the company, the CEO and other officers have had their pay and bonuses increase by the millions each year. Okay, I understand about the company growth and such, but the stock holders better wake up soon, as the officer's wages and bonuses increase, the stock value has decreased by 50%. Who's screwing who?
Well, you know who's getting screwed, and you know who's not getting screwed, so logic would dictate..................

May I ask the name of the company?

Hey I hope it's not another Enron story.

May I ask the name of the company?

Hey I hope it's not another Enron story.

I shouldn't say the name because I work for them but.........let's just say we're being Screwed By Cowboys :sunglasse .

Blah Blah Blah. Same stuff different day.


Funny that,because the truth never changes.

The Bush assault on the Middle East is failing.Whilst the sunni Iraqis have fought for their country since day one,the rest of the population is starting to rally against the occupying forces.Sadaam may be long gone,but airstrikes against Iraqi targets are a clear indication that GWB doesn't want to listen to the rightfiul owners of Iraq.