1997 GTP vs 2004 HEMI Ram

Today i've smoked a 2004 HEMI RAM on the highway. We started from 0 mph. At 90 or 95mph i smoked the RAM by a two cars distance. How many HP the Hemi makes?. My car has stock SC pulley, removed TB Screen, removed U-Bend, autolite 104's and Custom Air Intake.

Thanks

MoshimoGTP

Unless i'm mistaken, i believe the 5.7L HEMI put out 345 hp.

I tried to take one in my probe... that wasn't happening.. haha.

Well remember that that makes the car great is not only the hp is the hp/torque mix. HP basically measures how quick you can get there. Torque means how much you can get there.
Check the jap imports. A lot of them have a great hp rating but really small torque. Meaning that these cars are really subject to weight. Anything that changes inside the car would make it behave differently. On the other hand a car that has a massive torque would be less prone to behavioural changes when different loads are applied to it.

To be honest, the Hemi did not had a good driver. The thing has too much torque and too much hp for you to beat it. That is my humble understanding.

They weigh 4850 pounds without driver and gas, they are heavy beasts and thats the regular cab shortbox. Well over 5000 pounds fully loaded, they run low to mid 15's in the quarter mile.

Easily beatable by a stock GP.

Yes, but he was talking about high speed. Not racing from light to light. What is the RAM final gear ratio? If the Grand Prix has 2.93 stock and the RAM has higher than that then is easy to beat but if not then we have to check :iceslolan . Packrat by anychance do you have the final gear ratio?
Because at above 90mph the momentum would help the RAM get better acceleration than the GP because of it's massive weight and the RAM has good torque and good HP. THe only thing above 90 stoping would be a really high end gear ratio or a really really bad driver.
Is like normal big cars, they tend to be slower from 0-60 than smaller cars but if the have the correct final gear ratio and good torque/hp mix on high gear is a complete different story.

Weight at high speed dosent change... it still has to make all that weight go faster. The gears ratios vary truck to truck but I do beleive that my buddys is a 3.55 ratio (four door rams have different ones than the regular cab) but with the weight the ram has to pull and the brick like arodynamics of the ram, the gp still has an advantage.

Well aerodynamic wise you are correct, the GP has an advantage(Dont get me wrong, I drive one) but the grater the momentum the easier to move a body. Momentum=Weightxspeed. So the higher the speed or the weight the higher the momentum. So the aerodinamics play a role but at that speed it is a heck lot easier for the HEMI to push the truck forwards with the torque/hp that it packs.
355 is rather high gear ratio. That could be the reason that at 95 our friend here smoked it good. The higher the gear ratio the lower the top speed

my old man's got a chevy silverado SS that puts out 345 & 380 and my slightly mod'd GT burned his ass on the line but by time I hit 100 he was right next to me. the thing you have to look at is HP/LB my gt gets .0588 hp/lb where my dads pickup gets .0539 though they seem evenly matched heres where aerodynamics comes into play ( as stated by kilroypr) I dont have the stats but I can guarentee that the ram or in this case my dads silverado creates twice as much drag as our grand prix's

Well aerodynamic wise you are correct, the GP has an advantage(Dont get me wrong, I drive one) but the grater the momentum the easier to move a body. Momentum=Weightxspeed. So the higher the speed or the weight the higher the momentum. So the aerodinamics play a role but at that speed it is a heck lot easier for the HEMI to push the truck forwards with the torque/hp that it packs.
355 is rather high gear ratio. That could be the reason that at 95 our friend here smoked it good. The higher the gear ratio the lower the top speed

kilroypr I believe you are mistaken on this one. To sustain a constant speed once it gets there you are correct - the object with more mass would require less power to maintain that speed (momentum) given frictional forces are the same. In this case we are accelerating an object (wether 0-60 or 60-100 you are still accelerating), so the formula Force=Mass x Acceleration would apply. So the more massive object (HEMI Ram) would require more force to accelerate at the same rate as the lesser mass object (GTP) - again given frictional forces are equal.

FWIW

actually...if u think about it...the HEMI might probably has more friction because it probably has wider tires...but that'z prolly not that much more, therefore not that noticeable...just a couple centz from me...

this 1 is easy.. im a truck driver and have a freightliner with 600hp and close to 2000ftlbs of torque and beleive me it has no chance against my measily 260hp 04 ws6 i dont care at what speed. Plain and simple weight is an issue at any speed, sorry kilro.

by the way mopar is using the word hemi as a sales gimmick. the 5.7 is no where near a hemispherical(is that spelled right?) design.

Titleist, you take the 04 to the track yet

april 18th. There was suppose to be a gtp car club clash that weekend but noticed it is no longer on the schedule but in october it will be the gtps against the t-bird sc. thing. when my car was bone stock we ran my buddys g-tech pro on a 45 deg. night and ran 3 consecutive 14.50s @ 97mph. 0-60 6.4 to 6.6. i now have custom exaust on the car and actually did notice a difference as the car now keeps pulling after shifting into 2nd gear.

260hp 04 ws6

04 ws6? sorry but they haven't made a ws6 since 02. Do you mean GTP? Because the hp you gave sounds about right for teh comp G/GTP.

WS6 is a option code for the 04s too

sorry to confuse you swigz but my car is an 04 gtp with the competition group package (comp g) or for short ws6 its listed on my build sheet. you were probably thinking of the trans am ws6 which in fact you are right about the 02 thing. many web sites that have info on the comp g are also calling it a ws6.

I was not aware of that, thank you for the correction on my part.

Well remember that that makes the car great is not only the hp is the hp/torque mix. HP basically measures how quick you can get there. Torque means how much you can get there.

To be honest, the Hemi did not had a good driver. The thing has too much torque and too much hp for you to beat it. That is my humble understanding.

just fyi, you have it backwards. TORQUE is how QUICK you get there.. not hp. and it doesnt matter how good the driver is with the truck.. it's not gonna beat a gtp.. no way.. your humble understanding is way off.

if the truck was a lot ligter...like maybe dropped the HEMI in the Dakota...then it might beat a GTP...:-P even tho that would probably not happen...(dodge droppin a HEMI in a dakota that is...)

Oh no, physics class flashbacks!!!!

1 HP = 550 lbs one foot in 1 sec. As long as time or distance is invovled you're taking HP...so neither one of you are correct. Toque is neither how much you can get there or how quick you get there...both are Horsepower.

By the way, a dyno only measures torque...the force applied by the drive wheels. It calculates HP by the formula torque x rpm / 5250...which is why all torque and HP curves cross at 5250.

they must lie on tv then.. iv always heard the more torque the quicker you get there. that's why a car with 300hp and 275lb/ft torque is not as quick as the same car with 275hp and 300lb/ft torque--example: newer cadillac deville. they made it with both setups, with pretty much those numbers^

fast98 what they said on TV is not a lie. What happens is a car that has a higher torque would require less effort from the engine to rotate the wheels under load than a car that might have a higher hp. Hp is a power meassurement where the Torque is a strength measurement.
You know that the caterpillar engines start from 300hp onwards and their red lines are really low(around 4000rpms), that is comparable to many cars hp rating on the road today. But why a caterpilar engine fixed on a Ford Truck that has a 300hp rating can pull 4 tons of load where a 325 hp F-150 lightning would not even dream pulling that load? Because the caterpilar engine have a heck a lot more Torque than the f-150 lightning engine. Assuming both are bolted to a tranny that would have the same end gear ratios.

thanks for clarifying that it is not a lie. but you dont have to explain anything to me. iv had a pretty good and clear understanding of that for many years. i was just giving an example about a car. you talk to people on here like the are children..like they need everything explained to them. please dont. it's annoying as piss

No problem, I know that you know. But there are people that might like the long version.

Again, HP is torque applied over time and distance. When people talk about hi-torque motors, they really mean motors that put out a lot of torque at relatively low rpms, i.e. your caterpillar motor.

Someone mentioned two motors, 300hp and 275lb/ft torq vs. 275hp and 300lb/ft torq. Which one would accelerate faster. Depends...what rpm was peak tq/hp generated? 300 ft/lbs of torq at 6000rpm with a torque curve that looks like the side of a cliff isn't going to out accelerate a 275 ft/lb torque motor that has a torque curve as flat as a table from 2000rpm up.

Without a time/distance factor...in our case, rpm, HP/Torque numbers are just good for bragging rights.

By the way, the 5252 number used to convert torque to HP is not an arbitrary number. Without getting too much into math, it is the result of converting rotation over time (rpm) into a constant that can be used to calculate work (moving a weight over distance), i.e. Watt's calculation for HP.

Lastly, does anyone shift at slightly above the peak torque point when racing? If torque alone were the key to accelerating, wouldn't we want to stay as close to peak torque as possible? Yet when you race you never want to get too far away from the peak HP rpm. Why does everyone shift at slightly above peak HP? It's because HP is torque applied over time and distance (rpm). The peak HP is were the most work can be done...which is the reason Watt came up with the formula in the 1st place, to figure out how much work his steam engine could perform. HP is nothing without torque and if torque does nothing it creates no HP - the two items are not mutually exclusive.

That is the point. If you got a lot of torque low on the rpm band your car would move easier(Caterpillar Engine). Is the same thing like the S2000. The S2000 has 200hp but the pick torque at the very high end of the rpm band. That is why this car on a track setting could be outperform by other cars that have their pick torque at a lower level on the rpm band. The other cars that have the pick torque at lower rpms would come out of the turns a lot quicker.
This we have to treat it on mundane terms. That is why also that let's say the S2000 engine on a celebrity box would be beaten by the Celebrity V6 sitting on the S2000 Body even the S2000 engine has mor hp thant the celebrity V6. The V6 has more torque lower on the rpmband.
Sohasteg, tell me if this makes sense. Hi torque engine is the one that generates it's pick pulling power at a relatively low rpm range(Caterpillar Engine) And Hi HP engine is the one that is capable of reaching its pick torque in the least time.
To me personally I would preffer a average hp engine but with a lots of torque on the lower rpm band. It would really help you a lot on normal roads or circuit race tracks. If you are going for the 1/4" drag racing then you would like to have an engine with decent torque and lots of HP to move your car body quicker on the straigt line

kilroypr...you could start another mile long thread with a question on which is better.

Your typical late 60's Muscle Car modded can hit 12's in the 1/4 without seeing the high side of 6000rpm. Your typical hopped up turbo Acura goes 12s, but has to turn 8k to do it. Which one's better - they both go 12s.

Road racing is the same deal. Some like the low rpm pull out of the corners like a 'Vette. Other's rather keep the rpms high, like in a Porsche.

I have noticed this...if all out performance is the goal you turn a lot of RPMs. Look at the top class in any form or auto racing and you'll see motors turning 8k and up. Street cars are another matter. Most of a street cars life is spent under 3k. If you don't make any power down there, it's going to be a very unfriendly car to drive.

Just my thoughts.

wow i have seen the definition of elaborating in this thread

by the way the reason its not hemospherical is because mercedes only wanted the name and it worked for chrysler

Today i've smoked a 2004 HEMI RAM on the highway. We started from 0 mph. At 90 or 95mph i smoked the RAM by a two cars distance. How many HP the Hemi makes?. My car has stock SC pulley, removed TB Screen, removed U-Bend, autolite 104's and Custom Air Intake.

Thanks

MoshimoGTP
i drive a 04 short wheel base hemi. I push roughly 410 horses and I would smoke your little white car.

i drive a 04 short wheel base hemi. I push roughly 410 horses and I would smoke your little white car.

How about "little black cars"? I was sitting here a couple days ago saying how great it was the Chrysler got off their butts and did something right.
Being a little old, I remember the 60's. Remember the 426cuin/ 425 HP Roadrunners. They could out run "little white cars". Didn't do too much to My 421cuin. GTO. Which I still have. Just may have less miles then what your driving.
We like to have guys in from other parts of this forum. And your welcome anytime. But don't try to push the little guys around. There are some 12 and even some 11 sec. cars here.
Have a good night. Enjoy your truck.

i drive a 04 short wheel base hemi. I push roughly 410 horses and I would smoke your little white car.

:sleeping: This message thread has been inactive for over 1 year. Let it rest in peace. And with all due respect, I don't think anyone really cares.

BTW - Welcome to the forum. Have a nice day.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 ECU,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, TB spacer,
MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 104 Spark Plugs,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials

i own a 04 hemi pushing 410 horsepower and i would smoke you any day

i own a 04 hemi pushing 410 horsepower and i would smoke you any day


:shakehead Oh no....not another FNG with a hemi...lol. :lol2:

These guys never learn to quit. Maybe he should put his money where his mouth is?


http://www.photodump.com/direct/coolrex/100.jpg





http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 104s,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials

:shakehead Oh no....not another FNG with a hemi...lol. :lol2:

These guys never learn to quit. Maybe he should put his money where his mouth is?


http://www.photodump.com/direct/coolrex/100.jpg





http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 104s,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials


I thought he had a pickup. Let him put it in the back.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/kustomkid54/v4p3r6hae2m.jpg

I thought he had a pickup. Let him put it in the back.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/kustomkid54/v4p3r6hae2m.jpg

Hey Jim,

The original posted stated that he beat a Hemi Ram so I'm assuming its a pickup truck too. Don't those things way upwards of 5,000 lbs. They need 100 horsepower just to handle the extra weight. :lol2:

Great vehicle for towing though and getting the MX bike out to the track.



http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 104s,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials

Hey Jim,

The original posted stated that he beat a Hemi Ram so I'm assuming its a pickup truck too. Don't those things way upwards of 5,000 lbs. They need 100 horsepower just to handle the extra weight. :lol2:

Great vehicle for towing though and getting the MX bike out to the track.



http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 104s,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials

Have two at work. One has a ton of money into it. It took him a while but he asked if I "want to go"? I asked him where? Then he told me he want to race. Said he's turning 13.5's out at the strip. Well then you know I wanted to run him. Oh, now he likes GP's. We ran from zero to 70 MPH, twice. He lost both rounds. He said he never has troubles with GT' Mustangs. I told him "no one does."

So with all these new parts, are you trying to get into the 11's?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/kustomkid54/pic19791.jpg

Have two at work. One has a ton of money into it. It took him a while but he asked if I "want to go"? I asked him where? Then he told me he want to race. Said he's turning 13.5's out at the strip. Well then you know I wanted to run him. Oh, now he likes GP's. We ran from zero to 70 MPH, twice. He lost both rounds. He said he never has troubles with GT' Mustangs. I told him "no one does."

So with all these new parts, are you trying to get into the 11's?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/kustomkid54/pic19791.jpg

11s?? Yeah I wish. 12s yes. Making progress.

You know the best race I had ever seen was between a Hemi 'Cuda and a SS454 Chevelle LS6 back in 1974. Needless to say the Mopar lost.

BTW - Can I call my MX bike a hemi? Its got a hemisperhical combustion chamber....lol. :lol:


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 104s,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials

I used to go drag racing with a friend who was running a hopped up VW Bug. It was bracket racing and I used to love the expressions on the Chevy guys faces when they had to take the head start to him. that put a quick end to the comments like "what the #@*& does a VW need with wheelie bars?". A bug engine takes on a totally new sound when you come off the line at 8 grand and shift at 9500! :cheers:

I used to go drag racing with a friend who was running a hopped up VW Bug. It was bracket racing and I used to love the expressions on the Chevy guys faces when they had to take the head start to him. that put a quick end to the comments like "what the #@*& does a VW need with wheelie bars?". A bug engine takes on a totally new sound when you come off the line at 8 grand and shift at 9500! :cheers:

lol. What's the moral of the story? :lol2: :dunno:


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 104s,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials

[QUOTE=bnaylor3400]lol. What's the moral of the story? :lol2: :dunno:


The moral is: Blanket statements such as "i own a 04 hemi pushing 410 horsepower and i would smoke you any day" are dangerous and someone might just suprise one of these people. The people should just keep these stupid generalizations in the street racer forum where they belong! Or, like you said, put their money where their mouth is! I saw some pretty healthy big block muscle cars having to take the head start to a VW. 6.90's in the 1/8 mile at high 90s trap, BTW. And this was almost 20 years ago. I wonder what the bug people are doing now...

[QUOTE=bnaylor3400]lol. What's the moral of the story? :lol2: :dunno:


The moral is: Blanket statements such as "i own a 04 hemi pushing 410 horsepower and i would smoke you any day" are dangerous and someone might just suprise one of these people. The people should just keep these stupid generalizations in the street racer forum where they belong! Or, like you said, put their money where their mouth is! I saw some pretty healthy big block muscle cars having to take the head start to a VW. 6.90's in the 1/8 mile at high 90s trap, BTW. And this was almost 20 years ago. I wonder what the bug people are doing now...

Good point JimmyT and good moral of the story. I agree. :bigthumb:

As to those VW Bug people the ones that freaked me out were the conversions where they were running a V8 such as Chevy 327. Regardless, you have to think twice about it when they have wheelie bars.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 104s,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials