Question on Spark Plugs!!!

I went to Pep Boyz today and bought the wrong plugs I think, I bought them for a 1.6 Crx Si, when they are going into a 1.6 Zc. First Which car should I get the plugs for??? Also are Bosch Platinum any good??? Thx for all your help!!!

- Phat_Si

88-91 civic/crx plugs or 89 integra plugs will be fine. Since you got the ones for the 1.6 crx si they will work. Here is a part number if you need it: NGK BCPR6E-11 I have used ngk and that is all I will use. I don't know anything about the Bosch plugs.

Does anybody know anything about the Bosch Platinum plugs??? I need help, should I go with NGK or are the Bosch just as good???

- Phat_Si

WHATEVER YOU DO DON'T GET THE BOSCH PLATINUMS!!! They burn too hot of a plug. You want to go with what the car Manufacturer says to go with.. in this case NGK. Example of why to not to get them : I worked on a car in my garage doing a steering gear box. Got done and it wouldn't start.... Well I decided to look at the plugs and I saw they were bosch Platinum. I know they are bad plugs because of previous experiences. I pulled them put OEM plugs in it and it ran! Bosch doesn't work well with Honda and alot domestic cars. Also they took part in blowing the head gasket in the CRX I bought for $600!! No rust perfect condition!!

Originally posted by 5_LiTeR_EaTeR
WHATEVER YOU DO DON'T GET THE BOSCH PLATINUMS!!! They burn too hot of a plug. You want to go with what the car Manufacturer says to go with.. in this case NGK. Example of why to not to get them : I worked on a car in my garage doing a steering gear box. Got done and it wouldn't start.... Well I decided to look at the plugs and I saw they were bosch Platinum. I know they are bad plugs because of previous experiences. I pulled them put OEM plugs in it and it ran! Bosch doesn't work well with Honda and alot domestic cars. Also they took part in blowing the head gasket in the CRX I bought for $600!! No rust perfect condition!!

:eek: Man I never knew bosch was that bad. I have heard that the bosch O2 sensors are crappy but never knew the plugs were. I will keep that in mind for the future. as I said before just go with the NGK plugs.:)

How much are the NGK plugs for a set at Pep Boyz???

- Phat_Si

it's not the plugs, it's the user

ive got the bosch platinum +4 and they run alot stronger then my ngk's that i had in there, i felt a noticble power increase right after install, and for the 2 or so years they have been in there, they have had not giving me any problems, plus they are rated at over 100,000mile replacement, so you save money in buying them too.

You will always feel and increase in power after every tune up. Its because you run on plugs and dont notice a change in performance while it decreases. After you do the plugs it will always feel like you just gained power. Get back to me after you start having problems with your car... Thats if you ever do.

well they have been in for about 30k and i havent noticed any problems yet.

I think I'll stick with the ones I got ( Bosch Platinum's). My friends has 'em on his rex also and says thier good!!! Thx crxlvr and everyone else!!!

- Phat_Si

One more thing, It says that there is no need for gapping the new Bosch Platinum plugs, for the 1.6L Si motor. I need to know if they are still ok gappage wise for the 1.6L Zc motor??? Thx all.

- Phat_Si

ALWAYS gap your plugs. Pre-gapped my a$$! :p

Who knows what car they were pre-gapped for? Most of those plugs have dozens of cars they fit into. And who knows if the box has been dropped? Or when the last time the factory machine was calibrated? Heck, I've even gotten the wrong plug in the right box!

Just be gentle with the platinum plugs; you can actually scratch off the platinum coating with the gap checker. This, of course, is why they tell you not to gap them - not because the gap is actually correct, but just so you can't return them later claiming that the platinum came off.

You can gap the platinums just fine, just don't hack or saw at the gap points with the steel tool. And I wouldn't recommend chrome-plated gappers - they'll scratch the platinum even more easily.
:cool:

ok thx but what engine is the zc out of, (what cars parts fit best)??? Thx

the common trend, which i have gathered from my own experiences as well as by listening to many stories, seems to be that the bosch platinum +4's dont work very well in foriegn cars, especially japanese ones like hondas. there are some technical reasons as to why this is, which include things like the plug runs too hot, not enough spark, the the conductivity of platinum...etc.. Bosch +4's tend to work better on american made cars, while the NGK brand plugs tend to work best on hondas and other foriegn cars--why is why most hondas reccomend a certain type of NGK plugs in the car manual. always use what the manual reccomends for the best performance. most of the time whatever plugs the manual tells you to use, will be the best performing ones. there are a few exceptions, however, some of which involve people using the newer iridium plugs. I personally bought the platinum +4's and put them in my accord. i experienced a very noticeable loss of torque--especially in the low RPM range. i still have these for plugs, which i put back in the box. they have only been run for about 10 minutes if anyone wants to buy them. if you have a honda, i would stay away from the bosch +4's--if you have a chevy or a ford maybe you could try them, but always check the manual. and fritz is absolutely right, even if it says pre-gapped, always check the gap yourself.

I worked for a guy who owns his own foreign car repair shop. He has been working on foreign cars since he was in high school. He has worked for toyota dealerships before he owned his own shop. He wont even look at a foreign car if it has platinums. He has seen platinum plugs melt the wires because they burn too hot for them. I agree with everyone that says run NGK. if the manual recommends them then use them. Just like motor oil. if it recomends 5-w30 use it. hehe. i am almost 101% sure that honda knew what they were doing when they recommended that plug for their cars

Originally posted by white97ex
I worked for a guy who owns his own foreign car repair shop. He has been working on foreign cars since he was in high school. He has worked for toyota dealerships before he owned his own shop. He wont even look at a foreign car if it has platinums. He has seen platinum plugs melt the wires because they burn too hot for them. I agree with everyone that says run NGK. if the manual recommends them then use them. Just like motor oil. if it recomends 5-w30 use it. hehe. i am almost 101% sure that honda knew what they were doing when they recommended that plug for their cars


So this guy is trying to tell you that the electrode tip material causes such a difference in heat at the opposite end of the plug that the boots melt? Does he also sell bridges? Tip material has NOTHING to do with how hot the plug gets, that is dependent entirely upon combustion chamber temps and spark plug heat range.

well i am not an ignition system guru. But, the plug could be trying to draw more current than the wires can handle and they fail. the only time that he has ever seen a honda factory plug wire fail was when platinum tip spark plugs were used...he never explained why it happened. he never once implied that the electrode tip material burned to hot to melt the wire. he just said, basically, that the only wire failures he had ever seen was cause by the use of platinum tip spark plugs

oh, could someone post the link to the post where i can get my posts back. i've done it once already but for some reason i got deleted and had to re-register...thanx

Texan.... On EVERY car I don't care what make or model, but all combustion chambers will burn at 572 degrees. Thats on every single car ever made that has a internal combustion chamber excluding rotary. I have had too much bad experiences with platinum plugs. They burn way too hott. Honda didn't spend thousands of hours testing in labs and what not to find out that Platinum plugs make a difference. They don't do jack shit but end up fucking shit up. Guess how much I bought my car for? $600. a 90 CRX with a blown head gasket. I bought it did the job myself at the Garage I work at. I talked to her and she said yeah I just got a tune up done like last week then I found it out was blown. She said she had it done at percision tune (a local tune up shop) and I just shook my head at the stupidity. they put Platinum plugs in my car and fucking blew the head gasket. If you want and think Platinums are good and the best then there is no problems with me. It will give me the chance in the future to make more post because you come back on saying something in wrong with the way you car is running. I have been working on car for 5 years and am 17 now... I have the knowledge of people who have been in the business for 30 years. take it from me... you don't want Platinums. Ak any real performance shop They'll say Platinum suck ass. Go NGK... I don't know about the iridiums....

5_LiTeR_EaTeR- With all due respect, all of that is just not true. Where you got the 572 degree number is not clear to me, except that you may have heard it from nitrous applications. It is true that nitrous disassociates into free oxygen and nitrogen at that temperature, butthat's a LONG ways away from where average combustion temps are. Think about it, when was the last time you saw an EGT reading off your average modestly turboed motor? It should be around 800 celsius (~1450 farenheit) to be in the nice safe zone for combustion temps on premium pump gas. Which is a shitload more than 572, and the reason why engines make power from converting heat energy into mechanical motion.

There are a lot of things that will significantly effect combustion temps, inlcuding but not limited to...
-VE
-RPM
-ignition timing
-compresison ratio
-fuel type
-air/fuel ratio
-combustion chamber design
-mixture homogeny
-charge stratification

Beyond that, Honda DOES use platinum plugs on some of their best engines. All 5th gen Preludes for example have them (NGK's), in addition to the new RSX and countless other cars from very reputable manufacturers (Porsche, Mercedes Benz, Jaguar, etc...). And beyond that, the only thing platinums change is the hardness of the electrode material and their conductivity. Platinum is used becuase it is so much harder than everything (besides iridium) that the electrodes don't round off for at least 50,000 miles, which makes plug changes a rare issue and performance more reliable over long periods of engine use. And to state it again, the plug temperature has everything to do with it's heat range (a design feautre) and nothing to do with it's electrode material.

So with all due respect your car knowledge, please understand you aren't the only one who knos about them. I've got about triple the time in on you in wrenching on them, and grew up with a father who built race motors.

As usual Texan is right on this one. I'll see exhaust tempatures well over 1200 F with out a turbo. The flash point of gasoline will very depending on its make up, but I believe its considerably lower then 572 F, which actually has little relationship to what tempatures a combustion chamber will experience. If it wasn't you'd have a hard time lighting a pool of gas with a match, and Mr. Science doesn't recomend you try that one at home. BTW, here's a link to a wonder site which sites the approximent tempature of when nitrous oxide breaks down:

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question259.htm

Anyway the tempature in the combustion chamber is a function of how much energy is released (in the form of heat, directly or indirectly) by the burning of the fuel over time, and how rapidly the surroundings dissipate that heat, which is a function of many things including what Texan listed. The flashpoint of typical paper is 451 F, but that doesn't mean if the paper is burning its tempature is 451 F.

Anywho, most of the real hardcore guys I know actually run copper plugs. They don't last nearly as long platniums or iridium plugs (or sound nearly as sexy), but depending on the application, actually have better performance while they do last.

texan - you're conclusions are correct, but it's not technically the 'hardness' of the material that makes the difference in the plugs (no matter what marketing says...). What matters is the melting point of the metal. Here are the melting points (in Celsius) of the common metals:
Copper == 1083
Steel == 1400-1500
Platinum == 1772
Iridium == 2410

The higher the melting point, the less electrode wear you'll get.

Someguy - copper plugs are great in high-compression, boosted, high-RPM, or any other high-heat engine. Because of the wide electrode, they do a great job at conducting heat away and preventing detonation causing hot-spots. But in a normal, cool street engine, platinum or iridium plugs (in a conventional configuration) should - in theory - provide a more reliable spark because of the sharper elecrode geometry; particularly at low-voltage and/or high-RPM conditions.

5_liter_eater - I'll just say I agree with texan and Someguy. Combustion chambers burn much hotter than 572 degrees F and can vary by thousands of degrees F between engine designs. Platinum plugs of the correct size and heat range will do absolutely no damage to a stock engine. And please take it easy on the cursing, this is a public forum. :)

Lots of basic info on spark plugs can be found in "Fritz's Treatise": :)
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13950