Tough Race question

Hey guys. I am pretty regular on the nova and corvette forums, because I own a 71 nova, and a 69 vette that I am in the process of restoring, but I have always liked camaros and I drop in on this forum from time to time just to whats crackin. Now comes to my question. My everyday driver is a 2001 Ws6 Trans am with the Ram Air package, and I was just wondering how that would stack up against one of the SS camaros with the Ram Air and Ls1 engine. I know alot of it would have to do with the driver, because the power ratings on the cars are just about identical, but is there one little thing that would turn the scale one way or the other? Any questions you might have on the Ws6 I would be more then happy to answer. Also the Trans am I own is a 4 speed automatic with the 3.42 gears (I realize its not the six speed everyone covets but I have raced 6 speed Ws6 Trans ams and I have yet to lose to one so I feel they are overrated.) Any opinions you guys have would be greatly appreciated bcause you all seem like knowledgable car guys. Thanks for your time.

Rob

PS. In case your wondering, Both my Nova and Corvette will blow the paint off the Ws6 :wink: And i have pics of all my cars on Aim or i can email them to you.. i tried putting them on the sight but the images are to large to put on.

The WS6 is about dead even with the SS and its basically the same exact car so its just a driver's race and from a dead stop auto Trans Am and Z28's walk the 6 speed's but from a roll and top speed 6 speed's usually pull and if your need me to crop your pic's and down size them let me know

there is only one problem with the post. an A4 has stock 3.23's and a stock M6 has 3.42's. so if ur A4 has aftermarket 3.42's then i think that the A4 would win. because the A4 will shift more precise and quicker. here the cars are on a level playing field having everything the same. M6 cars usually have the better gears to make up the time lost in between shifts but with the same gears the A4 seems to have an advantage. as it will accelerate the same but shut more efficiently.

While I do agree that a 6 speed will take a auto with the 2.73 gears , the gear difference between 3.23 and 3.42 is so minimal that 9 times out of ten from a dead stop the Auto wins and when your competing with a excellent driver which everyone likes to think they are it makes it much more difficult but still possible yet throw some 3.73's or 4.11's in the 6 speed and now you need to swap to stand a chance

Hey. Thanks for you alls responses. Please do tell me how to crop the images down Formula. I have been playing with it for a while but I am not very "computer literate". Also after reading the thing with the stock A4s having 3.23 gears.. I went back and looked at the sticker from when i first bought the car and it lists all the options, and it has 3.42 gears under the extra options side.. so i may have unknowingly gotten the 3.42 gears when i bought the car not knowing there was a difference??? I am pretty confused on the whole gear thing, but I know my A4 has 3.42 gears. Once again, thanks for the feedback and I would very much like to know how to make my images smaller so I can put them on here.. as I recall when I was putting mine on there was an 80kb size limit, and all of my pictures are around the 500kb size. Well thanks again.

Rob

You need to photo editing software which I have so if you would like rto email me the pictures at [email protected] I can edit them to make them smaller after I crop them and email them back to you

Thanks for your help formula. I will send 2 or 3 pictures of each vehicle and I will leave it up to you to choose which ever ones come out the best. I wil not be able to mail the pictures until tonight, however, because im at work for the next 12 hours. Thanks again.

No Problem

in order to resize images, right click, then click on edit. then go up to image from the task bar, and click stretch/screw, and resize the dimentions to the proper size, in percentages, youll have to play with it. save the image under a new name, and bam, your done.

oh and bad ass rides man, im a bit jealous of all the chevy iron parked in your driveway. ;)

as far as the camaro vs firebird, yeah they are nearly the same vehicle. but from what ive seen and read, the WS6 is worth a few tenths in the quarter, and personally, even as a die hard camaro guy, i like the muscular curved lines of the WS6 over those of the camaro of the same year.

Whoever you were racing must not know how to drive a stick because every automatic ls1 I've raced i beat.

Hey, Thanks 89 Iroc. I am a definite Chevy guy through and through. I will try messing with that tonight as son as I get off of work, and if I can not get it I will send them Formula. I really want to get the pictures up here because I am pretty sure there are some skeptics out there that dont believe I have all the cars I mentioned. The Nova is my baby because a 71 Nova was my very first car and I am now fortunate enough to own another one. The Corvette is the fastest of all three with a 461 CU big block (454 .30 over), built turbo 350 and a set of 4.11 gears. The drivetrain on the Vette is completely finished and the interior is decent. I am in the process of stripping the Vette and it is getting a new ragtop put on it, but it is fairly close to being finished. I will finish stripping it over the next month or so and when summer hits in full swing I am going to spray it. The Nova has a 385 stroker motor (same as 383 but bored .40 over instead or .30, just to be a little different.) I realize I am posting on these topics pretty regularly, but when you work 16 hour shifts there isnt much else to do.. I will definitely mess with those pictures tonight, however. I hope I didnt insult anyones intelligence by posting the motor numbers, But I just like being thourough. Thanks again for all of your responses.

Rob

I would think the stick is faster than the auto... having owned both, i hate the 4l60e. It only has two usable gears... 1st and 2nd. Third gear is a 1 ratio and forth is overdrive with a .70 ratio, both sluggish ratios. The only gear the auto has on the stick is first, it has a 3.06 while m6 has 2.66. Second is 1.63 vs 1.78... you get the idea, so how the hell can the auto be faster w/o defying the laws of physics?

well, i know that were talking street trannies here, but without getting into specifics, you ever notice that EVERY serious drag race car, other than funny cars and top fuel diggers (cuz they have no transmitions at all) use CO2 power shifted automatics???? and no manuals anywhere in the feild???? just something to think about.

Ill tell you how the A4 can be faster then the m6 without defying the laws of physics. Skill. Driving the m6 takes much more skill then driving the A4, and although alot of people think the have skill, many of them dont. Anyway i think this post is getting a little off track. I was curious as to if you lined a m6 ls1 trans am and a m6 ls1 SS , and vice versa with the automatics, which one would be faster?


Rob

as i said before, from what ive seen the firechicken is a few tenths faster, and some people argue that the style of the ram air hood on the TA is more efficient than that of the SS and adds a few ponies, other than that, they are pretty much as close to twins as you can get.

Well I don't think that the hood styling will have any effect on the power output of the engine, the air still has to come in and back track to the front of the compartment so I don't see that being a factor. The only differences between the two cars that I could even see playing any part at givine the firechicken a chance would be the aerodynamics. Smoother lines, more aggressive spioler, less wind resistance. Like my uncle said, pontiac does it with style, and chevy just does it. However, the "style" might add some unwanted poundage to the car, I don't know but that's what I think.

well that style subject is a very good point, the firechicken is a bit heavier, but there is a difference in the hood design, notice on the SS the scoop opening is halfway back on the hood, meaning the air does have to turn 180 degrees, to the front where the airbox is, then 180 again back into the engine. where as the "nostrals" on the TA feed air strait into the airbox. now i agree, and have argued this point before, i dont think its that big of a difference, but its something to bring up.

Hey guys. I appreciate everyones feedback, but i found what i was looking for on MotorTrend.com. They did a roadtest between a 6 speed ws6TA and a 6 speed ss camaro (2000 models) and the T/A was .2 faster in the 1/4 and 1.8 mph faster. Thanks again

ROb

:-d

Hey all. I finally got my pics on here.. thanks our all yalls help. Now i just need help on one more thing.. how do i put them in my signature? I have one as an avatar, or im suppose to. Il find out after this post.. haha

well i have pics on here, but i can figure out how to put them in my signature or as a avatar Oh well.. they are on my gallery if anyone is really interested.

hey rob
an SS isnt faster than a WS6
they are pretty much dead even
reading motortrend will make your braincells die, just like the rest of the mags similiar to them

but on ramair discussion, on LS1 Fbodies, they actually pull most of their air from under the car. It hits the front spoiler, and bounces up thru the radiator, AC radiator thing, or to the airbox
so the design of the SShood can't be too hindering

check out LS1tech.com to learn a few more things about your car, Its one of the few LS1 boards I recommend reading

um, actually if you look at the design of the cars with the hood scoops, when the hood closes, the air inlet on the airbox, is closed off onto the holes in the hood, letting the air in from outside. so no, on the SS and WS6 the air does not come from underneith. on the models with standard hoods, yes thats where it comes from. oh and i have learned alot, a HELL of a lot from magazines, i dont always agree with motortrend, but it is a good source of info. matter of fact, this months Chevy High performance is a pretty good one, just for something to read on, i suggest everyone take a look at it. i know ill be very interested in the artical on building a race ready 10bolt rear :) and yes the WS6 is faster on a regular basis, than the SS, only by a few tenths though.

well i dont know but from what i have seen my Z has an opening of about an inch under the airbox that faces foward but when my hood closes that gets blocked off. On my friends 35 anniversary ss it does the same except there are holes where the air comes through. I am jsut saying that both cars have to get the majority of the air from underneith. On my car i cut out some peices from under my intake box which allows the air from underneith to travel up the slanted radiator and directly into my air filter.

well i dont know but from what i have seen my Z has an opening of about an inch under the airbox that faces foward but when my hood closes that gets blocked off. On my friends 35 anniversary ss it does the same except there are holes where the air comes through. I am jsut saying that both cars have to get the majority of the air from underneith. On my car i cut out some peices from under my intake box which allows the air from underneith to travel up the slanted radiator and directly into my air filter.

if that's your z in your signature... then u don't even have a ram air hood, and that's why your car gets its air from under. ram air hoods on the other hand, have an opening on the hood for air to come through, creating a more direct path to the intake manifold; that's why they call it ram air. and i think the difference has to be the different styles of RA hoods, the nostrils are obviously bigger on the ws6, more air=more power; makes sense to me...

i didnt say i had the ram air hood. but if u look at the underside of an ss hood and a z hood they both have the same hump infront of the intake box the difference is the the ss hood has holes there so that the air that came in the scoop can enter the air box. my arguement is that thats not enough air and its not coming fast enough to make a big difference. they both still draw air from underneath. my car only draws air from the bottom i understand that but u are saying that ss doesnt at all.

I read somewhere online an article by some physics person that "ram-air" does not actually function, the speeds of a moving car are way too slow for it to be practical. If you know the SS or WS6, it is actually a freer exhaust that creates the extra HP. I'd have to agree being that the speed at which an enigne sucks in air is so much greater than the speed of the moving car that it wouldn't matter if it is moving or standing still. The only benefit I could imagine from Ram Air is that it has more access to colder air outsdie the engine bay.

u completely correct i had hypsi explain this to me in detail he even showed me the numbers.

I read somewhere online an article by some physics person that "ram-air" does not actually function, the speeds of a moving car are way too slow for it to be practical. If you know the SS or WS6, it is actually a freer exhaust that creates the extra HP. I'd have to agree being that the speed at which an enigne sucks in air is so much greater than the speed of the moving car that it wouldn't matter if it is moving or standing still. The only benefit I could imagine from Ram Air is that it has more access to colder air outsdie the engine bay.

i don't think that's true, the ram air hoods have dyno proven performance results, so it has to do something. i don't think it is as much amount of access, i think it is the shorter intake. the air has less distance to travel to get into the manifold.

I think the only reason the ram air show's any gains is because of the engine getting a cooling effect from the air passages and the air than runs under your car is colder than the air that passes over your car so while I do agree the air has a shorter distance to travel you should see more of a gain from a CAI system than a ram air hood and intake

the ram air hood only provides more in the area for the car to suck in. That is what i have basically done with the mod i told u about in the earlier post. Its not actually ram air sense its not really forced into the intake. its not even forced into the intake box. i dont exactly see how the ss hood shows better numbers on the dyno if the only way the hood "works" is if the car is in motion.

Exactly, there is no "ram-air" it is not practical. To ram air into your intake you'd need a fan of some sort, spinning very very fast, can anyone say FI! So we measure boost by Induction speed, then what, Ram-air provides .000000001psi of boost.