questions on an evo 16g and neccesary supporting mods

I am very interested in putting a evo 16g on my 1g. I have the usual 3 inch exhaust, boost control, k&n, porting, data logger, act 2600, free mods (a walbro 190 is next). I want to know if I can put the 16g on with out upgrading the intercooler, injectors, or using an air fuel controller. This is a street car and will get very little track time. What trade offs will I have to deal with if I bypass an upgraded intercooler, injectors and afc? How much of a performance difference will there be?

Also... I start logging knock at 17 psi(anywhere from 3 to about 15 counts of knock if the car has been run a few times). This seems a low psi to me to notice that much knock.

One last thing... When will I start noticing fuel cut and is the only way to avoid it through buying a computer that eliminates it?

Thanks in advance,
Nate

I realize a similar question was posted right after I initially posted this one but... Has anyone just swapped an evo 16g and tuned their car w/o upgrading injectors, intercooler and afc? Someone has to have done this...

Thanks
Nate

I ran out of fuel on stock injectors with a 14b at 17 psi, which appears to be the case for you as well ;) Look for O2 voltage to drop off as rpm increases, starting around 6500-7000. An EVO 16g will just magnify the problem. You cant make any more power than you can supply fuel for, regardless of the turbo. You need fuel control to run larger injectors as well, increasing the cost.

If I were you, knowing that the 1g airflow sensor blows enough that even a 16g will challenge its limits, I would do the MAF translator. MAFt (~300), 190 (~100), and 500s or 660s (couple hundred used). Doing the MAFt knocks out the crappy aiflow sensor and fuel control all in one shot. Even with a stock intercooler the car should rip. The next thing you will have to deal with is fuel cut (surprised you havent hit it yet!), and the injectors should help with that as well. If the injectors arent enough, you'll need to look into an EPROM ECU if your car doesnt have one, and an inexpensive Keydiver chip. The ideal setup would be everything I mentioned above with a keydiver chip with injector compnsation for your injectors (keeps timing in check with larger injectors), preferably 660s. There are zero tradeoffs in this case. The next best thing to a full 2g ECU and DSMlink swap ;)

The other thing to consider is being a street car, pump gas will be on the menu. MAking efficient use of pump gas requires efficient intercooling. A FMIC will be the single best thing you do for pump gas power, once you have enoguh fuel to feed the beast.

I know the costs keep mounting, but its the natural order of things. You can do it one step at a time, with the exception of injectors/fuel control, until you get there. In the mean time you have to keep the boost down to stay safe. Datalogging is a massive piece of the puzzle though, so you are one step ahead of the game there ;) I hope this helped out.

Yes, that did help put things in order for me, thanks. I do not understand though how a maf translator will help my fuel problems if I am buying fuel injectors... and an afc. Does this stop me from buying an afc?

The MAFt has fuel control cabability built in. The AFC has slightly more adjustability in the sense you can adjust things every 500 rpm. If you ask me though thats overtuning anyway. The MAFt's newest version should have all the fuel tunability you need. You can certainly still get an AFC and use them together if cost isnt an issue. Use the MAFt to adjust for your injector size, then do the rpm based tuning in the AFC the old fashioned way. Some poeple like the rpm based tuning better, others like load based tuning (MAFt) better. ITs all up to you. :)

ive never heard of a MAFt, where can i get one?

The website is www.fullthrottlespeed.com. They have a forum as well, www.fullthrottletech.com for poeple that own them. Or maybe its public, not sure. There is an assload of info out there, espcially on dsmtuners and dsmtalk. I know I posted a ton in those threads. One of them is up to 100 pages I believe :D Happy reading.

It seems that I have two different options for fuel control. I can do the MAFt and Gm MAF sensor. I would prefer to buy the MAFt new for $200 and likely a new MAF for $130. Or I can buy an AFC used for $200 and a 2g MAS for $50-100. Both options also require buying a fuel pump (190) and likely 660's. Why would it be better to get the MAF and the translator? Money is always an issue (I do drive a '92;) and I think I could get a MAS 2g for about the same price as a GM MAF. It doesn't really matter to me but I wonder what is superior in the GM setup. Thanks again. Nate

One advantage the MAFt has over S-AFCII is that you can put the MAF in the UICP, 'blow through' so that you can vent any BOV all day with no problems. The air mass is read AFTER the BOV.

Other than that, there isn't advantage until you NEED the 3''+ MAF, because the 2g won't flow enough anymore. Kevin past this situation a long time ago, as he is now needing a 3.5'' MAF. Personally, I'm going to see if the new version of MAFt has as fine of incriments as S-AFCII, then probably buy that setup for blow-through.

Yes, its a matter of need in some cases. I found the limits of the 2g sensor at about 450 whp worth of air. The 3" sensor is much better. Just an FYI you can get the MAFt, sensor, and couplers for 300 total if you shop around. Thats what makes it good competition for an AFC. The 2g sensor isnt a bad way to go, but its still a hack job upgrade. The 1g ECU isnt tuned to the same curve as the 2g sensor, so it takes so fine tuning to make it work properly. It may seem to work properly, but there is more to it than even the seasoned tuner will notice with a simple logger. But it is an option, and many people have run this setup in the past. The MAFt just seems like a cleaner solution, and you'll have plenty of room to grow in the future. Not to mention the huge improvement I saw in full boost rpm, and in the time it takes my turbo to recover to full boost after a shift. Even the larger 2g MAS is a decent intake restriction ;)

The choice is yours. Look closely at both options, and choose what you think best suits your circumstances. :)