GTO vs GTO??!!

You guys know what would be a cool race...the 3000 GTO (VR4) goin against the 2004 Pontiac GTO! Since im more into the Import side, i'd go for the GTO (VR4), but as we all kno, it will depend on how good the driver is in each car. Since i hear alot about the Vr4 hittin mid 13s easily, i think the Vr4 should win. I forgot what the Pontiac GTO hits in 1/4 range. But I think that that would be one cool race....FOR ME..whats your guys' suggestions? :banghead:

The VR4 would murder the Pontiac... but then again I have not seen one run... only at D1GP... and it sounded mean!

Win lose or draw, it would be a fun race to see (especially if the VR4 had the GTO badging) :iceslolan

Please dear god dont start this again. I'm only going to say this once, because it's pretty much the same as arguing SS camaro vs VR4. It's a driver race, always has, always will be. If you dont know anything about the car(1viadrft) dont make statements like that. The new LS1 with the 6 bolt main is far from a slouch. It's statements like "the vr4 would murder the pontiac" that start flame wars from people who have a cob up their ass and can't take constructive criticism. But to answer the question, yes that would be a cool race.

Did you completely read my post? No? Well, shaddup then!

Performance stats according to Fast Autos. net:

2004 Pontiac GTO

0-60 mph: 5.3 sec
0-100 mph: 12.9 sec
Quarter Mile: 13.8 sec @ 103.8 mph
Skidpad: .81g
Top Speed: 160 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 132 ft
Slalom Speed: 63.4 mph

1999 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4.

0-60 mph: 5.5 sec
0-100 mph: 14.0 sec
Quarter Mile: 13.9 sec @ 102 mph
Skidpad: .90g
Top Speed: 160 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 122 ft
Slalom Speed: 63.7 mph


Yep, driver's race. Though we must all remember that neither of these cars are true GTO's. The real GTO's are Ferraris. Namely the 250GTO and the 288GTO.

The VR4 would murder the Pontiac... but then again I have not seen one run... only at D1GP... and it sounded mean!

lol wasnt that the only domestic there along with the viper??

sorry but I believe this is the true GTO
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/7/web/175000-175999/175165_4_full.jpg

Now that just isn't a true GTO, that is a truly beautiful car right there. Can't say it's my color preference but i would still take it.

R1-Rider, you have just tread on sacred ground for a diehard Tifosi like myself.

Gran Turismo Omologato, the suffix attached to the third evolution of the Ferrari tipo 250 Berlinetta chassis, was factory-speak for the fact that the 36 Ferrari 250GTO's built were built solely to homologate (Omologato) the cars for Grand Touring (Gran Turismo) competition. The two previous generations, the 250GT LWB "Tour de France" (so nicknamed because of the tipo's debut victory at the hands of Alfonso de Portago in 1956) and 250 SWB "Lusso" (a nickname carried over from the luxurious road cars) were fiercely competitive cars, but the 250GTO took all of the lessons learned from them and revamped the chassis and engine into a truly awe inspiring package which was then cloaked in bodywork considered by most if not all critics to be the most beautiful automobile of the postwar period.

In the years 1962, 1963, and 1964, this car scored more international wins, more class victories, and more overall podiums than ANY other GT car before or since. It took Carrol Shelby's incredibly specialized Daytona Cobra coupes and a Ferrari factory boycott of sports car racing (due to the FIA's refusal to homologate the mid-engine 250LM as a GT car) in 1965 to end the reign of what was essentially a 9 year old design. And even with all of that, privateer teams like NART and Auto Belgique still carried the 250GTO to class wins at Spa-Francorchamps and the Nurburgring.

I'm sorry to all the muscle car guys, but no dressed up Tempest/Le Mans option package NAMED AFTER THE FERRARI can lay claim to being the keeper of the GTO heritage. The GTO name is a FERRARI name. All other references are homage to history's most awe-inspiring and successful Grand Touring race car.

http://www.fast-autos.net/ferrari/250gto2.jpg
This is the true GTO. End of discussion.

:iagree:

When you move to italy that may be true, meanwhile this is american, we like muscle.

When you move to italy that may be true, meanwhile this is american, we like muscle.


Um... not all of us like MUSCLE... speak for yourself and the other Stang Maro drivers... I'd prefer a nice Japanese built car...

the stats above are wrong. for the vr4 13.9 is for 1st gens. 13.5 is what 2nd gens run(constantly) and for the gto motor trend ran it at 13.62 in the 1/4, meaning this is a drivers race. just as the camaro has ran faster times so the gto can.

When you move to italy that may be true, meanwhile this is american, we like muscle.


Sorry but while you have the right to prefer the car you want you cannot dispute the facts: the original GTO cars are Ferraris. Layla made that very clear.

And did the pontiac GTO even paticipated ever in a GT race?

who cares!
ask anyone in america what a GTO is and they will reply with an answer of muscle car or something of that nature

then go ask anyone in europe what a GTO is and they will answer ferrari and such

a GTO is is a pontiac in my mind U.S.A.!!!!

Well I would not care who wins just want to see it but i'm with the Ferrari being the Real GTOs but the pontiac is ok in my book same with VR4.
Be it as it may i'm still not feeling the newest Pontiac

To answer your question, Neutrino, the Pontiac GTO (until this season in the Speed World Challenge) has never been entered under factory colors in any road racing event.

However, Bob Tullius (founder of the infamous Group 44) successfully campaigned a privateer 1964 GTO in the SCCA Trans-Am in 1971. The car was nicknamed the Grey Ghost because of its grey color and its eerily good handling in the wet.

http://www.glenphotos.com/memories/graygoast.JPG

The Pontiac GTO's were and are fine cars. I'll never dispute that.

To answer your question, Neutrino, the Pontiac GTO (until this season in the Speed World Challenge) has never been entered under factory colors in any road racing event.

However, Bob Tullius (founder of the infamous Group 44) successfully campaigned a privateer 1964 GTO in the SCCA Trans-Am in 1971. The car was nicknamed the Grey Ghost because of its grey color and its eerily good handling in the wet.


The Pontiac GTO's were and are fine cars. I'll never dispute that.


Thanks Layla. You should change your name to Dictionary of Car Racing, Octagon edition;)

And as you said we agree that we all like the pontiac GTO but since the car was never made specifically to homologate a racing version of the car as in the case of the Ferraris the name was just a publicity stunt.

Is GM going to bring over the smaller 2 door Holdens? (spelling?) If you ask me those things look damn sexy and I dont think that of many American cars. Although is the Holden really american? I mean it was never sold her in the US.

when I think of GTO, I think of the old Pontiac that must be on steroids
As was said earlier, here in America people will think Pontiac when GTO is said...
this is such a useless arguement though

for me, GTO = gas, tires n' oil!

In case some of you aren't lucky enough to get Hot Rod magazine, here's their cover of it. ENJOY, I DID.

HRM: Are you the father of the new GTO
Bob Lutz: The GTO was my idea, but i dont want to take anything away from the team. I remember being at Chrysler and being impressed by many Australian GM products like the holden commodore SS and wondering why we can't get them here. Well, when i got to GM, i got an email from one of the guys in the holden group saying the manaro would be a natural for the U.S. market. It rang my bell, so i told him to do a very quiet study on what it would take to make it exportable to this country. The result was very encouraging.

HRM: What were the major hurdles in getting the manaro ready?
Bob Lutz: The rear impact standards here are more stringent, so the fuel tank had to be repositioned over the rear suspension for the needed protection. This is why you'll see a vertical bulkhead in the trunk of the GTO that isnt there on the manaro. Also, the Australian LS1 was a bit weak for our goals, so we reworked the intake and camshaft to boost horsepower to 350. In all, there were over 400 details we had to redesign or finesse.

HRM: I understand the exhaust system came in for some revisions
Bob Lutz: Yes the manaro didn't have an aggressive growl. I want to stress that the pontiac GTO has a true dual-exhaust system. The mufflers and tubing have been tuned to emulate the sound of a classic GTO from the 60's. We recorded the exhaust sounds of a '66 and a '68 GTO at the milford proving grounds to get a sonic signature to shoot for. Then we made it happen using dual resonators, dual cats, and dual mufflers without a crossover path to get a deep throated sound. When you step on the gas it goes graaaaghhh, then just as important, when you let off it goes braaaaaaghhh. This way you can hear exactly what the engine is doing. The twin outlets are placed on the left corner of the rear bumper cap rather than on each corner of the car because retooling the fascia would have added too much cost to the program. We may refine this detail later.

HRM: Is there any internal conflict at Pontiac because the GTO is an import?
Bob Lutz: We had to sit down with the UAW and convince there is nothing more American than a rear-wheel-drive, V8 powered musclecar. Because we didn't have anything suitable in our own product line, we all agreed that the imported GTO was the way to go for now, until a homebrewed successor arrives in the future.

And here's their review of it.

Enhancing performance for the sole purpose of impressing magazine taste-testers, the wangers treatment ranged from simple tricks like thicker valvespring shims to coax a few more revs from the Goats 389 to the infamous (and only recently admitted) 421 H.O. Tri power switcheroo in the legendary car and driver "red car". It trounced a Ferrari GTO by proxy and stirred four decades of controversy.
Today Hot Rod magazine is overjoyed to announce that the '04 Pontiac GTO needs no excuses or crutches. It's everything Pontiac says it is... and more. We found out firsthand recently during the '04 GTO media drive event wher Pontiac shipped 20 pilot cars to the ultra fru-fru Bacar Spa and resort in Santa Barbara, CA. Frequented by the likes of Brad and Jennifer, Oprah, and Rob Lowe, at first it seemed an unlikely place to celebrate the return of the traditional american musclecar. We'd have imagined the staging lanes at Pomona or a darkly lit backstreet to be more suited to celebrate the bare fisted, street brawling legend of the mighty GTO.
But after driving teh beautiful beasts over a prestaged 270 mile road loop that included everything from 130 mph freeway flying to 70 MPH corner carving on two-lane mountain roads, we realize it would have been insulting to the revived Goat's incredible cornering and braking prowess to confine it to a straight line venue. And while this writer doesn't spend much time behind the wheel of European touring sedans from BMW and Mercedes, this new GTO can definately hang with the Autobahn set. In fact, Pontiac makes no bones about it: The expectation and hope is that forty-somethings will abandon their beemers and benzes for a Goat costing a whole bunch less (about $36,000). Pontiac isn't nuts- The GTO is that good. So maybe the plush country-club setting was appropriate after all.

"Performance stats according to Fast Autos. net:

2004 Pontiac GTO

0-60 mph: 5.3 sec
0-100 mph: 12.9 sec
Quarter Mile: 13.8 sec @ 103.8 mph
Skidpad: .81g
Top Speed: 160 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 132 ft
Slalom Speed: 63.4 mph

1999 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4.

0-60 mph: 5.5 sec
0-100 mph: 14.0 sec
Quarter Mile: 13.9 sec @ 102 mph
Skidpad: .90g
Top Speed: 160 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 122 ft
Slalom Speed: 63.7 mph
"
Did you misprint the 0-100 for the GTO? Cuz if its doing 12.9 seconds to get to a 100, and its got 3 mph left before it reaches the quarter mile, why the hell is it only doing .1 second faster then the VR4 which takes 14 seconds 0-100? That doesn't make sense. Anyways I have yet to see proof but I still believe the GTO can do a much better time then a high 13-14flat second run. It may be heavier then a Trans Am but it ain't that much, and it has 350hp.

I remember reading about how MotorTrend or Car-and-Driver, one of the big time mags wanted to do a comparison with the 64 Pontiac and the Ferrari GTO. They never got to really do it but I think they did find out somehow that the Pontiac was faster in a straight line and the Ferrari of course was better on the road course.

Those times (for both cars) do not look right. The times do contridict themselves which is another reason not to buy into magazine racing times.

Yeah the VR4 takes 14 seconds to get to 100 mph but 13.9 to get to 102, wtf?

ive said this many times GET WIDER TIRES ON THE NEW PONTIAC GTO, IT WOULD GET BETTER TIMES!!!!!!!!! dumb GM i think it would get 5 seconds to 60 with more rubber.