Which is a faster car?

A 2002 mustang gt 5 speed with a good driver or a trans am LT1 auto?
I know it will be close but who has the upper hand.Don't both of thease cars run like low 14's,I've heard people saying automatic LT1's running 14.0-14.4 and thats around the same time a gt 5 speed will run correct.

I'd have to say the LT1, but what year is it?

Drivers race. Ive beaten LT1s stock and my cars an auto :)

Driver's race all they way one fuck up ends any slight advantage either has.

I smoked a 5 speed LT1 last summer on the streets.

A 2002 mustang gt 5 speed with a good driver or a trans am LT1 auto?
I know it will be close but who has the upper hand.Don't both of thease cars run like low 14's,I've heard people saying automatic LT1's running 14.0-14.4 and thats around the same time a gt 5 speed will run correct.

Could go either way. I agree with everyone else, it's a driver's race.


Matt

Plus one with drivers race but say equal driving the LT1 will nose ahead.

i would say mustang gt, but yea its a driver's race

Would the results change if it were going against an auto LS1 or will the gt still have the advantage because it's a 5 speed?

Would the results change if it were going against an auto LS1 or will the gt still have the advantage because it's a 5 speed? An stock LS1, be auto or stock, would beat a GT. An ls1 v a Mach 1 now that may be a drivers race.


But then again... The ls1 can never lose :uhoh:

I smoked a 5 speed LT1 last summer on the streets.
Must have been a 6 speed all Lt1's came with either a 6 speed manual or 4 speed auto. F-bodys and Corvette's

Yeah I didn't realize that the LT1's only came in 6 speed form till GTStang brought that to my attention. It deff was not an auto, so I just assumed it was a 5 speed.

The ls1 can never lose

:iagree:

pretty simple for me to decide and i dont even like the trans am , Trans am is quicker , sorry

:iagree:


apparently someone hasnt heard of the LS6 hehe.

Would the results change if it were going against an auto LS1 or will the gt still have the advantage because it's a 5 speed?
I just wanted to add my 2 cents to this comment cause I see it more and more from people who don't realize something. You can't out shift an AUTOMATIC, you can be the best driver in the world, a Computer or mechanical device will out shift you, Fun factor stick totally the way to go and I wish I had one but although manual is well known to put more power to the rear wheel's (but newer Auto tranny's are losing less through the drivetrain). Auto will produce consistant et's and while it is possible to put down a amazing track time it's harder to produce that same number time after time but I do agree that the 87 - 95 Stick Mustang was way faster than the Auto but I think its becuase the auto seemed to lose alot of horsepower for some strange reason

i heard somewhere that autos generally take away around 20% of your FWHP.

Auto usually eats about 15 -20 % and a manual generally eats 10 - 15 % going by most dyno number's but there are ways to build up either one to take those number's down a little but I have heard of some really crappy tranny's that can eat as much as 40 % but nothing made within the past 10 years eats anything close to that

I drive an auto too. I have learned some tricks to reduce the diminishing effects and get more usable HP. It was my first step in modding the preformance then I did engine upgrades that I could do myself by hand. It works like a charm and I dont lose the hp from the wide gear setup like it did stock and I dont have a heavily modded that could be costly to maintain but performs the same every time. 2 cents sorry.

I just wanted to add my 2 cents to this comment cause I see it more and more from people who don't realize something. You can't out shift an AUTOMATIC, you can be the best driver in the world, a Computer or mechanical device will out shift you
I'm not to sure what you mean by out shifting? You mean like the computer can shift faster?

Yeah, I mean shift faster>

I agree with formula , bosses t-bird is a 5speed auto , stock had less hp than gt mustang and the mustang never could keep up with the fast shifting of the 5 speed auto and wound up a few car lengths in 0-60mph , and extremely smooth and consistant. Did you know the auto on the t-bird has some crazy limiters. If your in park and you stomp the gas it just hovers around 4k rpms calmly.
The rpm gauge doesnt have a redline either.

I hear all the time well he might not be able to beat the 6 speed but the auto will give him a good race. Like every auto is slow, Auto's own drag racing. Most people with Auto's find that they launch better and straight .quarter mile or 0 -60 runs, Auto LT1's and 6 speed's LT1's are always within a few tenths of each other and go either way. Top end is usually where the 6 speed will pull on you if he is going to

Very true , almost all of my drag race buddies use autos , they make it more efficient with high stall torque converters and if available computer and line adjustments.

Given my car isn't stock and hasn't been since I have owned it but you drop in a torque convertor with a slight higher stall speed , Shift kit (transgo worked for me) and if you have a 4l60-e a corvette servo and now you have a durable, firm & fast shifting Auto but even in stock form they are pretty good.

yes thats right. I think its neat how the auto trans stuff works (alot over my head) Im a lil disapointed with mine. It works great but i cannot maintain it myself , it doesnt even have a dipstic.

What kind of car?

My buddies 94' Z28 shifts slow as shit w/o the adjustable shift kit on. I can shift faster than that thing w/ my five speed. But then again the rest of my friends/parents auto's can shift faster.

Maybe there is something wrong with your friends car cause I have driven healthy LT1 4l60-E's Auto like your friends car has and they are pretty good in stock form under WOT they take the car upto redline then drop into the next gear usually pretty firm and faster then I have seen one of my friend's or I have ever gone into the next gear.

yea i raced my dads ford bronco at mir today, i must say it does shift fast, i experimented with dropping it into first and manually shifting it but it was slower that way by almost a second and took longer to shift, i love that truck it pulls hard at the start, i was beating everybody off the line but most of them caught me, my first race i was neck and neck with a 94 mustang gt maybe, i was like god damn this truck is quick but like 3/4 down the track he started pulling and jus went right by and ran a 13:eek:

I'm sorry, stock for stock a auto will always be second! The converters are too tight for any type of performance, they can't get a decent launch like dumping a clutch can, the shifts are lazy without a shift kit, and unless your manual shifting your auto, chances are the auto is shifting at too low an rpm to race anyway.

I'm sorry, stock for stock a auto will always be second! The converters are too tight for any type of performance, they can't get a decent launch like dumping a clutch can, the shifts are lazy without a shift kit, and unless your manual shifting your auto, chances are the auto is shifting at too low an rpm to race anyway.
:1:

I'm sorry, stock for stock a auto will always be second! The converters are too tight for any type of performance, they can't get a decent launch like dumping a clutch can, the shifts are lazy without a shift kit, and unless your manual shifting your auto, chances are the auto is shifting at too low an rpm to race anyway.
While I will agree this is the case on Mustangs, It is not the case on every car with a auto Tranny.

I'm not too sure of that. Take any car, same exact make and model. One with the auto option, other with the manual option as the only differences. I'm just about sure the manual has the advantage everytime, for a multiple of reasons.

I will make a vid of my car showing shift point and while I do have a Torque convertor and shift kit. My shift points are not altered from what the tranny did originally which was bring the car up to redline before engaging the next gear in WOT situations and I know of plenty of stock cars stick vs Auto races with same type of car where the auto walked the stick and while I do agree at some point eventually a stick no matter what car will end up winning I don't believe all cars stick has advantage hands down. As for launching if you hold an auto in place with the brake while gently applying pressure to gas pedal to raise your rpm's for a launch while being careful not to break the wheels loose you will jump on the manuals everytime cause if the manual just drops the clutch he's going to spin and if he drops too low your already ahead

unless your manual shifting your auto, chances are the auto is shifting at too low an rpm to race anyway.I made the Vid if you want to see it give me your email.

I will make a vid of my car showing shift point and while I do have a Torque convertor and shift kit. My shift points are not altered from what the tranny did originally which was bring the car up to redline before engaging the next gear in WOT situations and I know of plenty of stock cars stick vs Auto races with same type of car where the auto walked the stick and while I do agree at some point eventually a stick no matter what car will end up winning I don't believe all cars stick has advantage hands down. As for launching if you hold an auto in place with the brake while gently applying pressure to gas pedal to raise your rpm's for a launch while being careful not to break the wheels loose you will jump on the manuals everytime cause if the manual just drops the clutch he's going to spin and if he drops too low your already ahead


The shift points may not be altered but the speed and firmness of the shifts have and if they haven't then I would be screaming for my money back.

I did test drives on alot of Camaro & Firebird (most of them are auto's) and while my take off and shift firmness are not in question because ofcourse they are better, my point about not having to manually shift your car to get it to rev high is the point I'm trying to make. But stock 4L60-e's in general are programmed to shift firmer during spirited driving.

As for launching if you hold an auto in place with the brake while gently applying pressure to gas pedal to raise your rpm's for a launch while being careful not to break the wheels loose you will jump on the manuals everytime
You also have to remember that stock autos have very tight torque converters, so power braking is good to a point till it stalls out and wants to grab, usually at a very low rpm.

My auto shifts right at 6000rpms. Doesnt miss a beat unless I let off the gas. :)

You also have to remember that stock autos have very tight torque converters, so power braking is good to a point till it stalls out and wants to grab, usually at a very low rpm.
I usually find it better just launching off idle. :dunno:

I usually find it better just launching off idle. :dunno:
Yeah, flashing the converter usually is better and will net a higher stall speed, even on a stock converter.

You also have to remember that stock autos have very tight torque converters, so power braking is good to a point till it stalls out and wants to grab, usually at a very low rpm.
Good point but your also talking about cars with lots of low end torque so if I take off full throttle after anything above say 2000 -2500 Rpm's I'm going to be spinning all day same thing with a 6 speed

I usually find it better just launching off idle. :dunno:
Really depends on what gears you have which one works better

Automatic Firebirds and TransAms were known back in the day to be just a bit faster in the quarter than the six speeds. Most (if not all I think) had a performance shift button that served to increase the shift RPM's, provide firmer shifts, and allow for quicker downshifts. In this case I think it was usually a 4-speed 3.23 option (MAYBE 2.73) vs. a 6-speed 3.42.

Yet I'd agree with HiFlow that with most cars the manual can be driven faster than its auto twin. It all has to do with gearing. But if you could figure out a gear arrangement that would see a factory 4 speed and 6 speed shift at the same engine RPM's and Mph (for the first 4 gears anyways), the auto would beat most of the people. Only an M6 dude who really knows what he's doing would be able to outshift the auto.

Sometimes a taller gear can be an advantage (obviously if YOU can't drive stick! :disappoin ) because in a 1/4mile you typically have 1 less shift than the manual car. The auto is not only wasting less time shifting, but the manual driver has more opportunities to screw up. I've seen it happen so often (usually at a Mustang's expense - :eek: OK sorry guys :grinno: ) where I take off at a green light with another guy on my way to more or less a 2-gear 1/4mile, and it just baffles the other driver to the point where they start messing up shifts looking for gears they don't even have.

Then again, a very tall geared automatic is in shit if its up against a very short geared manual car. In the case of the factory 4 & 6 speed Firebirds, it wasn't a huge difference - pretty much even. But you try pitting a 300HP 2.73 LT1 up against a 260HP 3.73 or 4.11 GT and it will matter a heck of a lot more because the GT will not only be making more torque than with the stock gears, but even the not-so-greatest manual driver will be able to get that car moving easier because the power is on a silver platter.

If those GT's came with the 3.55 axle option like the Mach1 and it was up against a 2.73 LT1, a good driver would be able to take the older F-Body.

Automatic Firebirds and TransAms were known back in the day to be just a bit faster in the quarter than the six speeds. Most (if not all I think) had a performance shift button that served to increase the shift RPM's, provide firmer shifts, and allow for quicker downshifts. In this case I think it was usually a 4-speed 3.23 option (MAYBE 2.73) vs. a 6-speed 3.42.
Yeah it was the 3.23 (which are long gone) and it came with a Transmission Perform Button located behind the shifter which I have, They called it the Performance Rear axle package

but wouldnt the 4 speed have less top end than the 6 speed if they were set gear for gear as the same? Im a lil confused cus I thought autos were geared wider. I was also told by racing enthusiasts that nothing beats an auto for take off speeds , is that true?

Auto's are always going to lose on top speed catagory, They always lose more through the tranny than the Manual but we are comparing take off and 1/4 mile and road races which should never get up to top speed by the way. I think auto launch better and other people think manual launces better it really depends on alot thing's like gears, what kind of car , stock torque convertor or aftermarket and stuff like that

LS6, now nothing beats that...

LS6, now nothing beats that...
And nothing beats the power of the "lock" (hiflow :) )



Please dont bring up old threads.

LS6, now nothing beats that...

Nothing stock. Fellas no mater what you drive even the LS6 somebody is always faster.