5th gear problem (not this again)

Ok guys remember a while back that crazy guy that was taking about 5th gear popping out

Well i was driving today and it happen :eek7:, just driving at 45 mph and it came out. Then I took it around the block to see if it will happen again but it didn't. So was it just a one time thing. Is it a loose nut down there... I just installed a short shifter.

what kind of short shifter and how much throw reduction? and what are you doing cruzing around at 45 in 5th?

I found this at www.vfaq.com....hopes it helps.

This is a symptom of a serious problem, at least on 1G DSMs. Shifter movement is not generally normal in DSMs. Having the shifter move around, especially in 5th gear, or popping out of gear (even once or twice) could be an indication of a loose retaining nut inside the transmission. Several 1G DSMers have had the rotten experience of having this nut come off completely, and consequently blasting a hole in their transmission. This problem only affects FIFTH gear - gears 1 through 4 and reverse do not appear to suffer from this difficulty.

Those who are uncertain must read this post and this post, both by Paul Lyons, and this one by Ashok Babu, who had his transmission fail on him. Don't take a chance on this one, since the inspection procedure is easy.

This problem does not appear as common on 2Gs, and at least one owner has reported that there was a loose nut in his shifting assembly that was causing the shifter to pop out of 5th. This is NOT the same nut that is involved in the 1G problem.

Is yours a 1g or 2g?

Homemade shifter... hehehe :iceslolan
Actually i like it. It was cut 2.5" less then stock.
And I can see the radio now. The throws are pretty short, but i dont know how to calculate the percent, otherwise i would- it would be interesting to see.

And the link does not work... but i will try to find it.
And my car is a 2g, hoping it is not anything serious.

and what are you doing cruzing around at 45 in 5th?

ummm... why not

I can tell you the percentage decrease in shift length if you tell me how long the shifter was before you cut it (or is now).

Because 45 in 5th gear is way low RPM's and most people don't cruise that low.. you won't be able to accelerate at all.

I can tell you the percentage decrease in shift length if you tell me how long the shifter was before you cut it (or is now).

Because 45 in 5th gear is way low RPM's and most people don't cruise that low.. you won't be able to accelerate at all.

Sweet...
Do you need the whole length from top to bottom. If so...
It was 7" and now its 4.5"

And yea it is low, apx. 2000 - 2100 rpm but when i am crusing i dont care about acceleration, I need gas mileage. I can always downshift if i need to accelerate.

35.7% less.
I remembered it being harder, but arc length of a throw is directly proportional to radius (shifter length) and angle which is a constant, so doesn't matter.

So 2.5/7... that really does seem to easy.
I guess 35.7% is not bad, better than most short throws, except the 50% ones.
My throw is really short, I could only wonder how 50% would feel.

actually i think it should be calculated from the fulcrum of the lever to the top. and it would be a little more of a complicated math problem. not that much, tho. and if you really think about it the angle of shift arc would be a constant because it is the same lever, but the length of the arc would be reduced. the length of the total piece would be reduced by 35.7%, but the lenght of the reduction in throw arc would be different. 100 - ({[new arc length]/[old arc length]} x 100) would give you the corrected percentage reduction. i think i just hurt my brain...

Wait that is still 35.7%... im confused.
I'm going to ask my physics teacher tomorrow

I thought 7 inches WAS from the base of the shifter, at the angle theta.

Wait I think my stupid brain is playing tricks on me.
I measured this over a month ago and I can't remember if I measured the lever or the whole thing.

I am going to re-measure it right now.
Sorry guys.

Ok it was messing with me--as usual

Here are the real measurements:
Current length from top to bottom 8.5"
Was cut: 2.5"
So i calulated 22.72%

However is the fulcrum at the bottom. There is a hole in the shifter that it goes through. Would that not be the fulcrum? But then again it is connected at the bottom too.

Meh, whatever.. its pretty accurate :)

STOP IT my brain hurts just reading this lol

lol... Dude i have to figure this out now. I will see what my physics teacher says, and then i will give up.

Ok so should I worry about my shifter popping out of 5th

lol. I know how it is when you cant figure somthing out, it just keeps eating at you till you do.

if the pivot was from the base of the shifter, it would never shift, just like if you put your finger on an upright toothpick. damn, i did hurt my brain... you guy's are giving me flashbacks to college trig...

i was just thinking a little out loud before, and this is not meant to prove my theory over any others, but meant as a difinitive answer [for fun ;)]...

now i got to knock the cobwebs off...

reducing the length of the shifter will not change the angle of required movement, only the distance of travel required to achieve such angle, and the percentage of difference of said travel is the solve.

circumference is still [and if i'm wrong, just don't make too much fun of me, i went to San Diego State!]: 2pi[r]

given: that the length of said shortened lever from the fulcrum to the top is [x], and the original shifter is [x+2.5]:

given: the angle theta[t] is constant

given: the length of the arc will be a constant percentage of the entire circumference: t/360 = percentage of circumference = [t%]

therefore: [t%][2pi[x]] = arc length [a]
and: [t%][2pi[x+2.5]] = arc length [b]

and % difference would be 100([a]/[b])

now just plug the #'s LOL

Wait I dont have an angle.
Edit>> So the fulcrum is in the middle(where the hole is) And I have to measure from there to the top.

But then if the angles are the same so they can cancel out, and so can the 2(pi). So we are back to the New length/original length. But this time it is not subtracted by 100.

So the answer is 64.29% or 35.71% :dunno:

yes, you have to measure from the static pivot point to the top. in the end, you would end up with the equation:

100{t%2pi(x)/[t%2pi(x)+t%2pi+2.5)]}

remember the 1% is = .01 [i put the % in there to simplify the basic eq]

if i remember my algebra right, you can't break that up, and you would not want to cancel out anything because then you are looking for a specific # based on the given parameters, so in reality those would all be #'s.

say theta = 35 [deg]

and x = 3

so:35/360 = .097

therefore: 100{[.097(2)(3.14)(3)]/[{.097(2)(3.14)(3)}+{.097(2)(3.14)(2.5)}]} = 100[1.83/(1.83+1.52)] = 54.58% shift throw reduction

so you see there is a difference and they don't just cancel out.

now i haven't stepped foot in a classroom for, well let's just say even though i was at college, i wasn't 'at' college. so i could be completely off, but i'm pretty sure this is sound ;)

Are there any drawback would you guys say to cutting a shifter down in size? I was thinking perhaps there would be less leverage (sp?), making it harder to throw into gear (more force required). I have no idea one way or the other, but thought I'd ask to be on the safe side. :)

I had my reverse pop out once, but that was because I didn't have it in gear 100%. Kinda just quickly stuck it in, but I felt it right away that it didn't seem to be in place exactly (no grinding). So maybe shorter it is, more diffcult it may become to get it into gear correct? I dunno just a idea, but probably not correct as shifting between gears with my short shifter is a brezze right now (should be 40-50% decrease right now).

I was just thinking if it would be worth it for me to also cut my short shifter down in size about 2" or so. Cause my boot right now hangs off the shifter exposing the metal stem + my hand would be held lower which should make it more comfortable for me.

That's 100% true.
There is less leverage which makes it harder to shift.

Check this out... the design of steering wheel size is a balance between 3 things:
1. Small enough that you can turn without cranking it 50 times.
2. Big enough that a slight bump doesn't throw you out of control
3. Big enough that you have enough leverage to turn it easily (thank you, power steering!)

Same kinda deal.. it's a trade off. Decide what's more important.

This is too early too be reading this much math, but thanks.

I think I am going to get the Symbroski shift kit next.

ya, i think i hurt my brain... lol