Save boost on a Supercharged B16a2
moleodonuts
03-08-2004, 03:26 AM
Aight, so I mihgt be buying a hatch with a supercharged b16a. The guy is running 9 psi of boost on a stock head and block. How safe is that? I know I'm glad I have a new engine ready to put in it, but should invest in a lower boost pulley? (is that even the right term? I spend all my life wanting turbo and now I'm being forced to learn about superchargers so any help is appreciated)
Assuming people say that's ridiculous and that its a timebomb: what do I look for when I'm shopping for a new pulley? I kinda did a quick search only to realize I have no clue what I'm doing, its a JR supercharger btw.
Assuming people say that's ridiculous and that its a timebomb: what do I look for when I'm shopping for a new pulley? I kinda did a quick search only to realize I have no clue what I'm doing, its a JR supercharger btw.
88_SC_CRX_Si
03-08-2004, 10:45 AM
The biggest complaint on B series sc's, is the tip-in detonation. Just as long as you keep that under control, everything else should be fine. Unless there are some "hidden" problems elsewhere, with fuel or ignition.
Running on 9 psi, the intake temps are going to be fairly high, costing more hp loss that way. If it were "me", I would look into Water Injection first, before trying to up the boost. That is only going to create higher temps, and robbing even more hp...
IMO - If you have been dead set on a turbo, then the best bet would be just passing this one. Otherwise, you probably be unhappy with it for one reason or another. When I got mine, I understood the limits of an sc. By doing so, it has relieably served me well, in the stop and go traffic of everyday living...
Anyway, good luck on whatever you do....
Running on 9 psi, the intake temps are going to be fairly high, costing more hp loss that way. If it were "me", I would look into Water Injection first, before trying to up the boost. That is only going to create higher temps, and robbing even more hp...
IMO - If you have been dead set on a turbo, then the best bet would be just passing this one. Otherwise, you probably be unhappy with it for one reason or another. When I got mine, I understood the limits of an sc. By doing so, it has relieably served me well, in the stop and go traffic of everyday living...
Anyway, good luck on whatever you do....
moleodonuts
03-08-2004, 12:16 PM
The car is running 9 psi right now... I was thinking more along the lines of dropping the boost. Do you think that'd be an ok idea?
As for passing it up, yea I'm still ging to go turbo and bought an engine for that, just I liked this car and it happened to be supercharged, so I figured I'd ahve some fun until my turbo build it rdy :evillol:
BTW: Would high octane (91/93) fuel be enough to prevent detonation you think?
As for passing it up, yea I'm still ging to go turbo and bought an engine for that, just I liked this car and it happened to be supercharged, so I figured I'd ahve some fun until my turbo build it rdy :evillol:
BTW: Would high octane (91/93) fuel be enough to prevent detonation you think?
moleodonuts
03-08-2004, 01:06 PM
Another quick note, the car does have a FPR on it.
88_SC_CRX_Si
03-09-2004, 09:34 AM
Having a sc first will give you a damm good foundation to build on, before you go turbo. It will probably also save you a block or two in the long run... :lol:
You want to run the highest octane possiable in your area. Otherwise lowering the timing will be called for. Best thing would be following the advice of the previous owner at first. Sense he has been able to keep it "alive" so far. Also, if the previous owner has been running 9 psi without any signs of detonation on the plugs. Then I would just leave it at that, and not worry about lowering the boost. There again it just depends on the previous history. Or if it starts showing signs of detonation due to weather conditions, gas, ect... then lowering the psi or timing would be called for.
I don't quite understand "the car does have a FPR on it"? It's got to have one if the engine is running. Could you mean the Fuel Modulator Unit (FMU) or sometimes called a Raising Rate Regualtor (RRR) depending on what part of the country your in.
Which leads to the question of what it's been using for fuel/ignition management...?
You want to run the highest octane possiable in your area. Otherwise lowering the timing will be called for. Best thing would be following the advice of the previous owner at first. Sense he has been able to keep it "alive" so far. Also, if the previous owner has been running 9 psi without any signs of detonation on the plugs. Then I would just leave it at that, and not worry about lowering the boost. There again it just depends on the previous history. Or if it starts showing signs of detonation due to weather conditions, gas, ect... then lowering the psi or timing would be called for.
I don't quite understand "the car does have a FPR on it"? It's got to have one if the engine is running. Could you mean the Fuel Modulator Unit (FMU) or sometimes called a Raising Rate Regualtor (RRR) depending on what part of the country your in.
Which leads to the question of what it's been using for fuel/ignition management...?
moleodonuts
03-09-2004, 12:06 PM
You want to run the highest octane possiable in your area. Otherwise lowering the timing will be called for. Best thing would be following the advice of the previous owner at first. Sense he has been able to keep it "alive" so far. Also, if the previous owner has been running 9 psi without any signs of detonation on the plugs. Then I would just leave it at that, and not worry about lowering the boost. There again it just depends on the previous history. Or if it starts showing signs of detonation due to weather conditions, gas, ect... then lowering the psi or timing would be called for.
[QUOTE=88_SC_CRX_Si]
A lot of my worry here is that according to carfax, this guy has put on like 8,000 miles in the last 5 years (he's in the airforce and hasn't beeen around, hence why he's selling it from what he says). Any the SC has only been on for 5,000. So there's still room for something to crap out.
[QUOTE=88_SC_CRX_Si]
I don't quite understand "the car does have a FPR on it"? It's got to have one if the engine is running. Could you mean the Fuel Modulator Unit (FMU) or sometimes called a Raising Rate Regualtor (RRR) depending on what part of the country your in.
[QUOTE=88_SC_CRX_Si]
The car has a Jackson Racing Fuel Pressure Regulator as apposed to an FMU (I'm going to admit that I've tried to understand the difference but failed to a large extent). From what I've heard its not the best, running at 10:1 I think? and that it really works a fuel pump and kills fuel delivery b.c of the high pressure (that's a 90 psi up and 9 pounds boost, right?).
So, I've heard to look into a 1:1 FPR, which is what I'll probably be hooking up this break.
[QUOTE=88_SC_CRX_Si]
Which leads to the question of what it's been using for fuel/ignition management...?
As for Fuel/Ignition management.... right now its been working it the stocky b16a ECU. As far as I know the guy has done no A/F mapping or timing work.
So this leads into my current plans: I think I'm going to be putting in DSM 450cc injectors and an AEM 1:1 FPR to keep those things flowing correctly (I've heard they just crap out at higher pressure and don't flow). A bit down the road once I've gotten a few more paychecks under my belt I'll be investing in am APEXi VAFC... Any thoughts on the safety of that initial FPR/injectors killer combo?
[QUOTE=88_SC_CRX_Si]
A lot of my worry here is that according to carfax, this guy has put on like 8,000 miles in the last 5 years (he's in the airforce and hasn't beeen around, hence why he's selling it from what he says). Any the SC has only been on for 5,000. So there's still room for something to crap out.
[QUOTE=88_SC_CRX_Si]
I don't quite understand "the car does have a FPR on it"? It's got to have one if the engine is running. Could you mean the Fuel Modulator Unit (FMU) or sometimes called a Raising Rate Regualtor (RRR) depending on what part of the country your in.
[QUOTE=88_SC_CRX_Si]
The car has a Jackson Racing Fuel Pressure Regulator as apposed to an FMU (I'm going to admit that I've tried to understand the difference but failed to a large extent). From what I've heard its not the best, running at 10:1 I think? and that it really works a fuel pump and kills fuel delivery b.c of the high pressure (that's a 90 psi up and 9 pounds boost, right?).
So, I've heard to look into a 1:1 FPR, which is what I'll probably be hooking up this break.
[QUOTE=88_SC_CRX_Si]
Which leads to the question of what it's been using for fuel/ignition management...?
As for Fuel/Ignition management.... right now its been working it the stocky b16a ECU. As far as I know the guy has done no A/F mapping or timing work.
So this leads into my current plans: I think I'm going to be putting in DSM 450cc injectors and an AEM 1:1 FPR to keep those things flowing correctly (I've heard they just crap out at higher pressure and don't flow). A bit down the road once I've gotten a few more paychecks under my belt I'll be investing in am APEXi VAFC... Any thoughts on the safety of that initial FPR/injectors killer combo?
moleodonuts
03-09-2004, 12:08 PM
You want to run the highest octane possiable in your area. Otherwise lowering the timing will be called for. Best thing would be following the advice of the previous owner at first. Sense he has been able to keep it "alive" so far. Also, if the previous owner has been running 9 psi without any signs of detonation on the plugs. Then I would just leave it at that, and not worry about lowering the boost. There again it just depends on the previous history. Or if it starts showing signs of detonation due to weather conditions, gas, ect... then lowering the psi or timing would be called for.
A lot of my worry here is that according to carfax, this guy has put on like 8,000 miles in the last 5 years (he's in the airforce and hasn't beeen around, hence why he's selling it from what he says). Any the SC has only been on for 5,000. So there's still room for something to crap out.
I don't quite understand "the car does have a FPR on it"? It's got to have one if the engine is running. Could you mean the Fuel Modulator Unit (FMU) or sometimes called a Raising Rate Regualtor (RRR) depending on what part of the country your in.
The car has a Jackson Racing Fuel Pressure Regulator as apposed to an FMU (I'm going to admit that I've tried to understand the difference but failed to a large extent). From what I've heard its not the best, running at 10:1 I think? and that it really works a fuel pump and kills fuel delivery b.c of the high pressure (that's a 90 psi up and 9 pounds boost, right?).
So, I've heard to look into a 1:1 FPR, which is what I'll probably be hooking up this break.
Which leads to the question of what it's been using for fuel/ignition management...?
As for Fuel/Ignition management.... right now its been working it the stocky b16a ECU. As far as I know the guy has done no A/F mapping or timing work.
So this leads into my current plans: I think I'm going to be putting in DSM 450cc injectors and an AEM 1:1 FPR to keep those things flowing correctly (I've heard they just crap out at higher pressure and don't flow). A bit down the road once I've gotten a few more paychecks under my belt I'll be investing in am APEXi VAFC... Any thoughts on the safety of that initial FPR/injectors killer combo?
A lot of my worry here is that according to carfax, this guy has put on like 8,000 miles in the last 5 years (he's in the airforce and hasn't beeen around, hence why he's selling it from what he says). Any the SC has only been on for 5,000. So there's still room for something to crap out.
I don't quite understand "the car does have a FPR on it"? It's got to have one if the engine is running. Could you mean the Fuel Modulator Unit (FMU) or sometimes called a Raising Rate Regualtor (RRR) depending on what part of the country your in.
The car has a Jackson Racing Fuel Pressure Regulator as apposed to an FMU (I'm going to admit that I've tried to understand the difference but failed to a large extent). From what I've heard its not the best, running at 10:1 I think? and that it really works a fuel pump and kills fuel delivery b.c of the high pressure (that's a 90 psi up and 9 pounds boost, right?).
So, I've heard to look into a 1:1 FPR, which is what I'll probably be hooking up this break.
Which leads to the question of what it's been using for fuel/ignition management...?
As for Fuel/Ignition management.... right now its been working it the stocky b16a ECU. As far as I know the guy has done no A/F mapping or timing work.
So this leads into my current plans: I think I'm going to be putting in DSM 450cc injectors and an AEM 1:1 FPR to keep those things flowing correctly (I've heard they just crap out at higher pressure and don't flow). A bit down the road once I've gotten a few more paychecks under my belt I'll be investing in am APEXi VAFC... Any thoughts on the safety of that initial FPR/injectors killer combo?
88_SC_CRX_Si
03-10-2004, 09:57 AM
One of the first things I did was shitcan that JR FMU, and went with a CarTech instead. It lets you adjust the the Rate of Raise so you can fine tune it better (without tearing it apart), especially if tip-in is occuring (never really had that problem). Along with lowering the overall fuel pressure to some degree. Mine fp was in the 65-70 psi and that was still a little too rich for the set-up I was running. Stock injectors can run up to a 100 psi, for how long, thats another question tho...
Just think of a FMU as another dam, like the fuel pressure regulater is. It starts blocking off the fuel return line to the tank. Which then allows even more pressure to build inside the fuel rail, giving the injectors that much more pressure/fuel.
Talking from experiance - As far as the V-AFC, ect... goes. If at all possiable, save your $$$$$ and get a ZYDNE or HondaData, and larger Injectors first. That way you can use it for both the sc, and when the time comes a turbo. Trying to peice it togather like "I" have done, has ended up costing more in $$$$/time, then if I was just got those at first. Running a standalone will also pay for itself in no time, when you see how easy it is to blow a turbo'ed engine. Unlike a sc where you have to really screw-up big time...
Is there any kind of fuel pressure gauges, or A/F meter. I know they are a joke, however it still will give you an idea on whats happening during boost...
Just think of a FMU as another dam, like the fuel pressure regulater is. It starts blocking off the fuel return line to the tank. Which then allows even more pressure to build inside the fuel rail, giving the injectors that much more pressure/fuel.
Talking from experiance - As far as the V-AFC, ect... goes. If at all possiable, save your $$$$$ and get a ZYDNE or HondaData, and larger Injectors first. That way you can use it for both the sc, and when the time comes a turbo. Trying to peice it togather like "I" have done, has ended up costing more in $$$$/time, then if I was just got those at first. Running a standalone will also pay for itself in no time, when you see how easy it is to blow a turbo'ed engine. Unlike a sc where you have to really screw-up big time...
Is there any kind of fuel pressure gauges, or A/F meter. I know they are a joke, however it still will give you an idea on whats happening during boost...
moleodonuts
03-10-2004, 11:40 AM
Right now its got 450 cc injectrors, the shitbox FMU, and a holley fuel pump (any idea what the specs are on that thing? I need to call the prev owner....). Also, He's got a Fuel pressure gauge, A/F meter, and boost guage hooked up.
88_SC_CRX_Si
03-11-2004, 09:47 AM
After seeing what he has already done now, "I" would jump on that ASAP.... :lol2:
It will save you some major $$$$$ when you do go turbo, with the parts he has already installed. Just spend some $$$$$ on a standalone like mentioned above and dyno time. You will have an excellant set-up, as far as engine management goes. Along with keeping a turbo'ed engine "alive" and "happy" when the time comes. During the meantime, pick up the book "MAXIUM BOOST" by: Corky Bell and read it several times. It will help in understanding whats going on and the problems that can come up when running a turbo...
What few turbo'ed crx's I have been around, usually spent more time setting then running, for one reason or another. Granted they would kill me, just by the amount of boost they were/are running. Buutttt... what good it that if it has more downtime, then it's being driven. To me a daily driver means daily driven. Not every so often, when it happens to be running. Anyway, thats what it's all about too me...
GOOD LUCK... and welcome to the 'Dark Side' when the time comes... :smokin:
Noth'in like Induction..." ;)
It will save you some major $$$$$ when you do go turbo, with the parts he has already installed. Just spend some $$$$$ on a standalone like mentioned above and dyno time. You will have an excellant set-up, as far as engine management goes. Along with keeping a turbo'ed engine "alive" and "happy" when the time comes. During the meantime, pick up the book "MAXIUM BOOST" by: Corky Bell and read it several times. It will help in understanding whats going on and the problems that can come up when running a turbo...
What few turbo'ed crx's I have been around, usually spent more time setting then running, for one reason or another. Granted they would kill me, just by the amount of boost they were/are running. Buutttt... what good it that if it has more downtime, then it's being driven. To me a daily driver means daily driven. Not every so often, when it happens to be running. Anyway, thats what it's all about too me...
GOOD LUCK... and welcome to the 'Dark Side' when the time comes... :smokin:
Noth'in like Induction..." ;)
moleodonuts
03-11-2004, 03:21 PM
Yea looks like I'm picking this puppy tomorrow, I'll keep an eye out and see if anythings nocking around in the engine on the drive home. [whahahahha get it? man that was a truly righteous pun. High five to me <smack>]
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