240sx vs. Integra GSR

if these car were to race, which would come out the victor?

both bone stock and manual

integra gsr in the 1/4 mile

the 240sx would lead at launch but the integra gsr will catch up when the VTEC kicks in then beats the 240sx

Assuming that both drivers are equally matched, the Integra will own the 240 all the way down the 1320 from launch to finish.

HOWEVER. A trend I have noticed amongst Acura/Honda drivers is they can't drive for shit. Back when my S14 ran, I brought it to the street races. Iv'e taken Civic Si's, Integra GS-R's, and non VTEC Hondas. Sometimes by alot, sometimes by a nut hair.

On the other hand, Iv'e come across a few VTEC honda/acuras that smoked me cause they CAN drive. Especially this one guy in a Integra Type R. Anyways, the point is that it's all about how skilled you are. It can mean a full second or even more in a 1/4 mile.

but at least the 240 will win in a drift contest :)

and with an s15 front end conversion....oh so sexxxy

what a ricer...

The 240 is slower b/c we have a driveshaft and a rearend to turn. the integra also has the advantage of all the weight of the engine and transmission on the front wheels adding traction. The only minus would be the gas tank.

I didnt think i would have to spell it out, man. It goes without saying that the driveshaft is heavy. Heavier stuff is harder to spin than light stuff. It also goes without saying that the differential being separate from the transmission and in a separate housing in the rear adds more weight to an already heavier car.

http://www.acura.com/preowned/pre_modlib_index.asp

1998 Acura Integra

Curb Weight, Manual - GS-R
2672 lbs (1212 kg

Weight Distribution, (%)front/rear - GS-R,GS
64/36


1.8-liter, 4-cylinder, 16-valve DOHC, 140 hp @ 6300 rpm, 124 lbs-ft-torque @ 5200 rpm

www.240sx.org
Car Weights
These are from the "NADA Official Used Car Price Guide"

1990 (SOHC)
Coupe XE - 2657
Fastback SE - 2684

1992 (DOHC)
Coupe - 2699
Fastback - 2730
Coupe SE - 2712
Fastback SE - 2747
Fastback LE - 2748

1994
Convertible - 2870

1995
Coupe - 2815
Coupe SE - 2821

the power is 155HP@5600 and 160ft-lbs at 4400.

you make the decision. I'm not even sure anymore. 240 still kicks ass. FR owns FF any day of the week.

what a ricer...


agreed. :iceslolan

The 240 is slower b/c we have a driveshaft and a rearend. the integra also has the advantage of all the weight of the engine and transmission on the front wheels adding traction. The only minus would be the gas tank.

Why would you think a driveshaft and rearend would slow the 240 down? FWD has way more frictional loss. The difference in weight between a transaxle and a rwd manual + shaft + rearend probably is negligable once drivetrain losses are figured in. [EDIT: NM This I was thinking automatic last night for some reason, however the FF and FR difference here is not why this race is lost]

The traction advantage of a transaxle over the driving wheels also may help, but is hardly the race winner...the momentum of a quick start will probably unload that weight advantage for the first 20 feet or so.

What you have to look at in a drag race (assuming both know what they are doing) is the HP of the GS-R is +15 or so more and having the advantage of being newer usually probably the difference is greater....you also have the fact that the GS-R is about 200lbs lighter as well...this is wear the advantage starts....

Another advantage esp in the drag is with a 7600 peak HP rpm vs the 240's in the upper 5k range you probably have one less shift needed. 0-60 times are about 1 sec off.

Lastly the GS-R is probably geared a bit taller, I think they are in the 4.xx range then usually having taller early gears (since they have the advantage of a almost 2k greater HP peak rpm).

Still the 240SX is a more superior car in my opinion. I have had a 92 style GS-R and liked it, but it had not perception of power and in any tight turn I had to baby the throttle or it would start pushing out.

Å

^ You are mostly right. RWD has a significant advantage during a launch because a great deal of weight is transferred to the rear.

However, RWD cars have more drivetrain loss than FWD cars. This is because there is more mass in a longitudal driveshaft, trany, and differential.

well with most F/R cars they have to spin more heavier things to get the power to the wheels, this makes up for the drivetrain loss. in a FF car they don't have a big drivehsaft or big transmission.

The Differential is built right into the transmission on a FF and the axels split right out from there. Its a much more simplier, cheaper, and easier to build setup thats why most cars are FF today.

edited my post, for some reason I was thinking automatic and not FWD last night

dam that sucks a honda will beet a 240 with what engine a ka24d or a doch ka24de???

Umm The Drivetrain Loss Of Any Honda Is Greater Than 240sxs. The Gsr Has 165hp And Only 115 Of It Hits The Wheels, Thats 50hp. The 240sx Has 160hp And What 120 Of It Hits The Wheels. You Got To Remember Every 90 Degree Turn Power Has To Make Is Equal To 4-5lbs Of Rotational Mass. The Honda Flywheel And Clutch Assembly Is About 30lbs What Does The Ka's Weigh?

those numbers are way off....a manual GSR loses about 15% to the drivetrain. The typical GSR you will meet will be a 94 and later 170HP, not the 160HP 92-93...if you are really unlucky it will be a 97+ Type R pushing 195HP.

The 92-93 should make about 136 at the wheels (these would make for a closer race but are rare to see....)
The 94+ 170HP should be around 145FWHP
The Type R 195HP should be around 166FWHP

But the real story of our loss is in the gearing and RPM advantage the GSR has...they make power up to 8k in the Type R. We have to shift at around 6k and are at less torque efficient gears from the start.

That said....once you start dramatically increasing the power chances are the GSR will not be able to put it all to the ground. On a road course, forget about it the Type R even will have to keep it's power down in twisties or else push out of the turn.

Show Me A Dyno Of The 160hp Integra Putting Those Numbers To The Ground. My Friend Is Stock With Just A Cold Air And The Number I Quoted Is The Number He Has On His Dyno Sheet.

yes. come to think of it, musicsurfman is right. If you ever listen to a stock honda rev, it takes forever to get up there. the flywheel and clutch must be pretty heavy. Also, there isn't a whole lot of engine there. I mean a 1.6L and a 2.0. They don't even come with turbos so i don't see how all these companies started making kits for them and not for a true sports car (240sx).

Don't Get My Wrong The Hybrid Honda Motor.... B20 Vtec Is An Awesome Motor. 220hp Just By Swapping A B18c Head Onto A B20 Block Is Impressive. But A Stock Hondas Aren't Impressive. Hell Look At There Performance Model The Prelude. Its Fat, Heavy, Slow, And Has Massive Understeer Matched With Major Torque Steer.

The mags reported these numbers in their tests of the 1992 and 1993 GS-R, I remember I ran a 1/4 almost indentical to the mag numbers back in 1994 (I had a 1992)

1992 Acura Integra GS-R 6.8 15.4
1993 Acura Integra GS-R 6.5 15.2

a 94 GSR made 152 whp on mustang dyno w/190000 miles with I/H/E....I don't have the chart anymore but I remember a 170HP dynoed at 135HP baseline with miles on it.

What was the state of your friend's engine? compression? miles? etc. Also is he absolutely positive he has a real gsr? I know few of the honda guys at the track found out the gsr the bought was a rebadged gs. Regardless most of even the real ones were so dogged out they won't even make stock power with a cat-back.

I am not trying to get into a pissing match...but all you have to do is look at the 0-60 and 1/4mile times a stock GS-R turns. That's power + gearing + overall wieght/aerodynamics. The 240SX cannot hang with that in stock trim. It's not to say the GS-R is a better car, it's just a quicker one out of the box.

Nissanfanatic...there are more than just the 1.6 and 2.0 found in these cars....2.0 is not giving up much to the 2.4 as far as power potential.

Did I hear someone say FF's have drag advantage because the engine is over the drive wheels?

When you launch the weight transfers to the rear wheels and away from the front wheels, thats why FF's have traction issues upon launch.

The GS-R is still faster in the 1320 than a USDM 240SX. But it doesnt mean the 240SX isnt still the superior car.

I'm Not Either I Was Just Quoting What I Saw.

It Was An Hawaii Car With Less Than 60,000 Miles. The Car Was In Great Condition But Had Cooling Issue Because Of A Faulty Pump. It Was A Real Gsr And The The Title And Registration Even Listed It Under The Model Code.

Well If You Real Want To Get Into Piss Poor Honda Transmission Design..... Any Model Civic, Accord, Delsol, And Prelude. This Things Have High Flywheel Numbers But Crappy Wheel Outputs. My Friends Civic With 140hp Was Putting 98hp To The Ground.

Regardless of what's being measured at the wheels by whomever. The 1/4 miles don't lie. A US spec 240SX will be the loser to any of the GSR's both in equal states of tune with equal drivers. It's just the way the manufacturer's handled it stateside.

Many of the 1/4 mile times you may see for Hondas in general are slow as have these morons are running 18" and larger wheels.