Vintage Camaro - Needs Work

I recently became a proud new owner of an 88 or 89 Camaro. It was given to me by someone who no longer wanted it. He had planned on giving it to a car donation place but instead signed the title over to me as I'm w/o a car right now.

Allow me to give you a little history on the vehicle. The cars appearance is ok - the paint on the front hood of the car is peeling in a few places and the driver side door is a little hard to close most likely due to the accident near the rear of the car (in between forward most part of the tirewell and the edge of the driver side door). The last time the car was driven was this weekend but aside from that I don't know how long the car has been sitting there.

I went to pick the car up tonight and found that everything appears to work (wipers, signals, ac/heat, lights etc) except that it won't start. I assume the starter core is ok but it doesn't turn. I had someone try to give me a jump and charge the car for a while but that was futile. We put the car in neutral and tried to get it rolling but thats one heavy badboy! In any event we let it roll a few feet as far as we could but that didn't help.

I was hoping if anyone A) had any suggestions of things to try and B) lived in the area and would be willing to take a look at it.

congrads on the car. however, its not vintage. lol not quite yet anyways.

sounds like the usual wear and tear on a car 15 years old.

As for it starting, will the car even turn over? or make a clicking noise? or anything at all? i take it the battery is ok if you tested all your options. we need more info on what it does and doesnt do.

if nothing, check your connection, make sure the battery posts arent corroded to shit, or anythign like that. if it does turn over, check for spark, maybe check compression. if it doesnt turn over after boosting, make sure you let it sit with the cables hooked up for a couple min, then try.

Let us know what is hapening so we can better assess the situation.

yeah, if all other electronics work, and you charged the battery, but the solenoid dosnt even click on the starter, then the starter is shot. if it clicks, but wont turn, then its still the starter, if it turns the engine over, but it wont fire, its an ignition or fuel problem. so like he said, we need more details.... OH and both my camaros are 89's, dont tell them that they are vintage, its like tellin a chick her jeans make her look fat, probly why your car wont start ;)

.... OH and both my camaros are 89's, dont tell them that they are vintage, its like tellin a chick her jeans make her look fat, probly why your car wont start ;)

LOL Sorry :) I love the Camaro body style. I'm a young buck, just turned 22, and the 'Camaro of the 80's' (until 92..) was my dream car!

Thanks for the replies!

Now I'm a noob so I could be using the wrong terminology so in an effort to not make myself look like a total "ID 10T" I'll just use standard person-who-doesn't-know-anything-about-cars language. :iceslolan Ok so when I try to start the car it clicks and makes your standard starting noise but it just doesn't actually start. The battery posts look ok although they could use a little work. I had someone try to charge the battery for maybe 5 minutes before we decided to disconnect the cables and roll the car a few feet to see if it would start. I suppose it could be fuel, ignition or compression problem (not that I know the difference between the three) but I don't know. I also neglected to mention that this is an automagic.

The current plan is to leave it where it is until Friday and have some friends take a look at it then if we can't get it started, tow it home. Already I think I'm going to have to rebuild the tranny, change all the hoses, probably get a new timing belt, new tires & repaint the vehicle. The interior? Don't get me started: It's got "misc." everywhere - looks terrible! Maybe it just needs to be cleaned I don't know (at six oclock at night, it didn't look great :)). I'll need a new dash, new seats and trunk as it will not close. Meanwhile I'm going to pick myself up a chilton book and RTM. Are there any worthy technical sites online? Sort of an electronic version of the chilton book?

well, congrats on getting the car. sounds like my IROC, just saved her from a guy in arkansas, and am planning a very in depth life saving program for her. sounds very much like your deal, sept she starts ;) and runs GREAT, just looks rough, and is missing some stuff here and there, like the power seat and BOSE system it originaly came with. ah well, these are our projects that make us feel usefull :)

but from what your saying, it sounds like the engine is turning over, so you have a fuel or spark problem more than likely. to check for spark, pull out a plug, put it back in the boot, and hold the side of the plug against the engine block, or other grounded item, like the alternator housing, have someone crank it, if you got spark, youll know it ;) if so, put it back in, and check fuel, an easy way if you dont have a guage or other tools, is to open up the air cleaner, and look down in the throttle body as someone cranks the engine, you should be able to see the fuel spraying from the injectors into the butterfly valves up there. if you got no spark, you have to trace the wiring back to where you have power, use a test light for this, see if you have power at the distributor, if not, see if you have power at the coil, if not, see if you have power at the ICM, if not, see why power is not going from the starter solenoid to the ICM. If you have no fuel, let the car sit for a min or two, then get in and listen carefully to the back of the car, turn the key to ON, not start, and see if you hear the fuel pump spinning and priming the system. if you do, then turn the key off, let it sit for 10-15 min, and pull off the fuel filter, should be under the car, about six inches forward of the driver side rear tire, and about a foot and a half towards the center of the car. youll need a 5/8in and a.... 7/8in??? wrench, i can never remember the big one, but i think thats it. see if the filter is clogged. I think that if you do all that youll find whats wrong, if the engine is cranking normally, and not slow or anything, then your battery is fine, and so is the starter. so i wouldnt try charging it anymore.

^^^ no point in typing out what he just said again. listen to this fellow, he knows his shizzle ;-)

Well Iroc, as much as I respect damn near every thing you say, I don't recall seeing him post if it was a V6 or 8, and if an 8 if it was TPI or TBI, if it's TBI then yeah it will work, but if it's TPI how is he going to check fuel getting into the engine with out having to pull the fuel rail off. Also, since it's been sitting so long it could per chance be a head gasket, call it silly but I've seen it happen a few times. A car will sit for a year or so and the motor will get really tight, and that first crank will blow it. He should get a compression checker. Also, old spark plugs that have been sitting for ever tend not to work, and old gas will get you every time. Just my two cents. Good luck bro, and if you need an engine built and you live close to Jacksonville FL, I have the best price around. Later.

see 92RS, thats why i like having you around, you catch all my screwups, those are all very good points i forgot to bring up. guess i just assumed it was a V8 TBI, and we all know what assumptions are. ;) but to test a TPI for fuel injection, take a connector off an injector, and wire a test light through it, you might have to go one at a time, but if the light lights up, BAM!! got fuel :) that or hold the release valve on the rail while you crank, just be ready for a spray of gas, and for gods sake close your eyes, or wear goggles :)

PS thanx JM93 ;)

Oooookay...

Last night I ran out to an auto store to get myself a spark plug remover and some spark plugs. I know it's a 2.8L engine so I assume a V6.

I replaced the spark plugs and checked to see if there was any oil on them and for the most part they looked fine in that aspect. The reason I say 'for the most part' is due to the fact that most of the spark plugs were very dark or black at the screw area which I thought might have been a small trace of oil or some kind of grease but it wouldn't wipe away so it could just be that they've been sitting there too long. Some of the spark plugs sockets had plenty of rust around and some in them but it was loose as though I accidentally nudged some in there. On the second to last spark plug I noticed that the protective rubber handle had a huge gash in there. The rubber was cut, or rather pulled apart, and the metal rod inside of it was considerably bent. I couldn't tell if whatever had caused this actually pierced the metal rod but that didn't look good. I checked the oil and it appears to have about another month or so left in it and I'm almos out of antifreeze. I tried to start the car with no luck. Again, just to be sure I had a friend try to jump the car once or twice but that didn't help either.

Since the the auto parts store was closed (missed by 2 minutes) I figured I would call it a night and pick up a few things tomorrow. Now, I don't recall the lights dimming greatly when trying to start the car however, I'm going to try with a battery that I know works in addition to the spark plug wires and go from there.

As far as I know, this used to be a daily driven car. I don't think it's been sitting for a very long time, at least that was never mentioned. The guy said that he used it on and off or let his brother use it most of the time - the last time the car was driven was last Saturday and Sunday.

well, congrats on getting the car. sounds like my IROC, just saved her from a guy in arkansas, and am planning a very in depth life saving program for her. sounds very much like your deal, sept she starts ;) and runs GREAT, just looks rough, and is missing some stuff here and there, like the power seat and BOSE system it originaly came with. ah well, these are our projects that make us feel usefull :)

but from what your saying, it sounds like the engine is turning over, so you have a fuel or spark problem more than likely. to check for spark, pull out a plug, put it back in the boot, and hold the side of the plug against the engine block, or other grounded item, like the alternator housing, have someone crank it, if you got spark, youll know it ;) if so, put it back in.


hold the boot with a pair of insulated pliers or something. Did that with my gn......... my arm was numb for half of the day :p

I have a bad feeling that it's the fuel pump or the fuel injection system. I figured that I would check around autozone's website for another fuel pump - any recomended brands? I need to get myself a Hayes or Chilton but they don't have any there.


and if you need an engine built and you live close to Jacksonville FL, I have the best price around

I'm practically in DC but my family lives down that way - next time I'm out that way and I need something I'll let you know.

where outside of DC??? i live close to Mount Vernon Estates. and if your close by, i could try to make some time to help ya out on a weekend or something. depending on where you are, no promises.

where outside of DC??? i live close to Mount Vernon Estates. and if your close by, i could try to make some time to help ya out on a weekend or something. depending on where you are, no promises.

I live in Arlington and the car is currently parked near the previous owners, brothers house which happens to be a few blocks away from Lee Highway in North Arlington. I would say it's a good 15 minutes or so from DC. Let me know if you're interested in coming by sometime.

Last night I replaced one of the spark plug wires, the one that was ripped. During the process of removing the wire, the rubber ripped off but I managed to get the rest off. I then replaced one air filter (since AutoZone didn't have two..) and tried to get it going. Pursuant to my friends father's testing, he doesn't believe it's sparking at all.
(He took some piece of metal and stuck it into the spark plug wires, held it over something metal and had me start the car - didn't see any sparks)
Autozone was closed so we couldn't get another distributor cap and we decided to leave it for today. Last night, some mechanic was going to come by today and take a look it, try to get it running of course but he couldn't make it. He hopes to be out here tomorrow so we'll see. I picked up the distributor cap and another filter this morning so we'll see how things work out tomorrow.

I appreciate everyone's input, tips and suggestions. I picked myself up a Hayes book so I'll be doing a little studying :)

yeah man, thats not too bad, i cant make it out this weeknd, but if you want to get something going for next sunday, get the address where the car is parked, and email it to me, and i can try to come over then. weekdays im too tired (im a mechanic ;) ) and i work most of saturday. but PM me the info and ill see what i can do.

Only 3rd gen that I would conside to be vintage right now is 82's and 83's. My car is vintage. But still I like the 3rd gens. There good solid cars and I was looking at getting one of them untill I found mine.

If all the lights and shit work then theres nothing wrong with the battery. My advice is cross your fingers and change the starter and fuel pump. If that takes care of the problem while your at it you should change the spark plugs and wires, oil+oil filter and transmission fluid. Then take it somewhere and make sure everything is alright. You dont want to be driving something thats not safe, trust me my friends streeing colum droped out while he was on the busyest street in the city and it wasnt pretty But if the starter and fuel pump dont work....My cousin's 89 Firebird had the same problem and his engine took a shit and died.:disappoin

yeah man, thats not too bad, i cant make it out this weeknd, but if you want to get something going for next sunday, get the address where the car is parked, and email it to me, and i can try to come over then. weekdays im too tired (im a mechanic ;) ) and i work most of saturday. but PM me the info and ill see what i can do.

Well no, not this weekend! That would have certainly come as a surprise to me if you did. In any event, I replaced the distributor cap today and p00f started up like a charm.
THANK GOD!!!!
The previous owner took the liberty in removing the tags which resulted in the car getting 160$ worth of tickets overnight. *sigh* Since it worked, I moved it to my 'second family's' house as they have a driveway and nothing will happen to the car.

I'll call my insurance company to get a quote and I hope to take a trip to the DMV by this weekend to register the car and at least get a temporary tag. Before the guy gave me the car, he warned me that it probably wouldn't pass emissions so I need to investigate that - maybe the DMV will let the car go for 30 days :) to fix the problem.

The car sounds pretty good (not that I know what to listen for), has decent acceleration but the steering feels wierd. The wheel turns with ease however it feels as though the wheels themselves are loose. It's hard to explain, ya gotta drive it to understand.

89IROC&RS - I can come meet you at your place, or your shop even, if you still want(ed) to take a look at it.

Only 3rd gen that I would conside to be vintage right now is 82's and 83's. My car is vintage. But still I like the 3rd gens. There good solid cars and I was looking at getting one of them untill I found mine.

That's a schweeeeet car!

Why thank you very much

I've seen these vortec heads on hundreds of threads but I didn't see one regarding them on a V6 2.8 Camaro. I suppose it's because it's not possible or rather impractical (or just plain stupid) to do so. Is this true? Whats another alternative other than getting a v8 and a blower?(figured I'd save Genopsyde the trouble of saying it) Next comes the thermostat - what temperature should I get: 160? 170? 180? Based on what I have read on sites, everyone says something different. Of course in general they apply to camaros of other years however I'm sure someone on here has had experience with this or has a good...mathematical or logistical way of explaining the differences, pros and cons. I don't know what has been done to this car so I'm going to assume that nothing has been changed - at least nothing drastic. Pursuant to some other posts, Hooker and Edelbrock exhaust systems are recommended for this vehicle, are fairly easy to install and don't require a second mortgage on the house. If what is said is true, I'd prefer the edelbrock system as it's not as loud. I love the way my car sounds now however I'd just like to improve it a bit - make it happier. Out with the bad air, in with the good air. I don't need a 500+hp monster but I'd like something around 300-400 or so with a lot of torque. Is that reasonable? (Probably not with my existing configuration but with a 5.0 or 5.7 V8 [or custom], good set of cams and headers, intake and exhaust; I'm sure I could reach that goal). A lot of the things I've seen (like SLP intake runners and cold-air induction, BBK twin 58MM throttle body) are all geared toward the V8 which is again, a little depressing! So I suppose my question(s) is(are) the following...
Realistically, whats the most amount of hp/torque I can get out of my baby w/o causing any harm?
In addition to that, whats the most that I can do to w/o wasting money and having to redo a ton if I decide to get a bigger better engine (be it 5.0, 5.7 or some other engine say from Camaro Industries).

Whats my cost? *shrugg* I don't mind spending say 5-10k to restore it and make it a monster but I can't *poof* drop that all at once. Don't get me wrong - I don't have deep pockets! See, I love the car so cost isn't an issue per-se, I'll pay what I need to pay in order to get what I want (and or need based on personal experience or otherwise) done.

Any and all suggestions, comments etc are welcome. If you need more information regarding the car let me know and I'll find out. I also plan on posting pictures somewhere so you can take a look at it.

yeah the first thing about the vortec heads, is they are a V8 head, so they will not fit a sixer, there is a vortec head for the 4.3L V6, that has the same ports, valves, and chambers that the V8 head has, but i have no idea if they will bolt up to the smaller six. i would say not, but im not sure. for the thermostat, i would say a 180 degree is fine. the reason a car runs hotter, say 210 as a factory spec is to get the car up to operating temp faster, better for emmissions, but with that hot coolant flowing through the intake, bad for performance, thats why the lower temp thrermostats are popular, but they can hurt emissions. headers are always a good performance value mod, and yes, for emissions vehicles, i do recomend them. also the small primary tube diameter of 1.5in will help with low to mid range tourqe, which is what youll be looking for from the six. as far as realistic power from the 2.8L, i dunno man, not really up to speed on them. dont know the aftermarket for them or anything like that. to be honest, dont even know the stock power rating lol. but id aim more for 200hp. i think 300 is asking a bit much of the little engine that could. for comparison, the supercharged 3.8L engine makes 255. as far as the rest, how much you are gonna spend and whatnot, no idea man, i just dont konw enough about the sixers.

I think you can get a reasonable 200hp out of that sixer with out pawning your mom's jewerly. But that motor was not built for power. It was built for a little bit of low and mid range torque so it could still be justified to be put in a camaro. LOL Anyway..I know it was in other things to guys. If you want more power I would suggest a new engine. You would probably spend less with a rebuilt V8 than you would trying to get more power out of what you have. Infact, you can probably go to a junk yard and find a third gen with a V8 and rob it of it's intire engine compartment and computer for about 500 bucks. That's what it runs here. but good luck bro.

Infact, you can probably go to a junk yard and find a third gen with a V8 and rob it of it's intire engine compartment and computer for about 500 bucks. That's what it runs here. but good luck bro.

Yea - thats the plan this weekend. My friend knows some great junk yards and we're going to take a trip up there to see what they have and what we can get. I need a few replacement parts for this car (rear fender and driver side door, trunk lid) as they're dented up pretty bad or simply don't work as they're supposed to.

Yeah seriously, buying a V8 is spending about the same amount or less for more power than trying to beef up a V6.

I've seen these vortec heads on hundreds of threads but I didn't see one regarding them on a V6 2.8 Camaro. I suppose it's because it's not possible or rather impractical (or just plain stupid) to do so. Is this true? Whats another alternative other than getting a v8 and a blower?(figured I'd save Genopsyde the trouble of saying it)
I see i've become a bit predictable here.

First off I want to thank all of you who have taken the time to read my newb posts. I'm sure I'm asking pretty routine, boring simple questions and I appreciate your patience and understanding.

This morning the car had a hard time getting going. After revving the engine around 2500 for a while I let go, it dropped to about 500 and struggled to get back up to 1000-1500. I put the car in reverse (which brings me to another thing*) gave it a little gas and it died. So I started it up again and tried to be quick about switching from P to R and it worked just not as well as I had planned due to the delay. Eventually I got it going in reverse and I heard this 'dragging' type sound. It doesn't always happen when in reverse - it also happens when going forward (coasting). It sounds like two pieces of metal slowly rubbing against each other - or a snow plow truck dragging its plow over a road that doesn't have too much snow.

*Here that other thing I wanted to touch on. One thing I have noticed is that when switching from park to reverse or reverse to drive or park to drive it takes maybe 2-3 seconds to actually shift gears. The car jolts a bit once switched and you can hear a difference in the engine noise. What controls that switching process or the timing? What could be causing that delay (not that I expect it to me immediate but it's slower than other automatic's I've driven (Civic, Escort etc)

This weekends plan is to try and find an IROC-Z coupe and check to see if the 8th digit of the vin is 8 which should be the 350-cid engine [right?]. If they have the whole vehicle I may as well go for it since I currently have an automagic and lots of changes will need to be made based on other posts here and on other forums/web sites. Is there something on the engine itself that I could check out which is a foolproof way of identifying it as a 350? I only ask incase someone took the engine out and put something else in it's place OR if they just have an area full of engines that aren't necessarily labeled as V6's, V8's etc

I found this on thirdgen.org:

"Q: Is there anything I can do to improve my 6 cylinder engine?

A: Yes, just about anything you can do with the 8 cylinder, can be done with the 6. Parts my be a little harder to find, but ads in the back of any Chevy magazine is best place to start. The most basic things are upgrading the intake and exhaust. A K&N air filter as well as freer flowing intake tubing can do alot. On the later models, you might want to try drilling holes in the water shields under the air filters (about five 1/4 inch holes). This will allow much more air into the motor. As for the exhaust, Edelbrock and Dynomax make some excellent free flowing systems for the V6s. And Products for Performance makes a freer flowing replacement catalytic converter.

For the spark, try the Crane HI-2000 ignition discharge unit and the Crane PS91 coil. Also use 8mm helicoil plug wires from MSD and Bosch platinum spark plugs.

You can even swap the cam. Competition Cams makes the CompuCam 2000 which is "computer freindly". Try something with .432 intake and exhaust lifts. In combination with that, use Competition Cams 1.6 roller rockers. All this allows for better breathing, so you might want to have the intake manifold ported. Also port and polish the heads.

Finally, you can go with forged pistons, chrome moly rings, Federal Mogul bearings, a remanufactured crank. This will be plenty strong to handle a nice nitrous set up from NOS."

That look good to you all? That FAQ is pretty good - I'm going to try some of the technical stuff I've seen on there (like the rattling I hear when idle and going in reverse, getting aluminum shaft, not being able to shift into overdrive at wide open throttle etc).

the delay in shifting is normal with your kind of transmission (i believe u have a 700r4) my 92 305 tbi does the exact same thing, the transmission is pretty much a slush box so it shifts slow. the jerking is normal too, u put it in gear therefore there is now power going to the rear wheels and it will push u forward slightly (same deal w/ reverse). the reason u didn't feel it in the civic or escort is because your car has torque (at least a respectable amount compared to the 4-bangers). the difference in engine noise is also normal. when you put your tranny into drive you make a connection between your engine and the rest of your driveline, but, your car isn't goin anywhere if you have your foot on the brake; so your engine will drop some rpms. finally, your car is slower because the 3rd gens are beasts, even with a v6 they are still about 3400-3500lbs, and thats a heavy sob. the civic and escort i would guess are about 1000lbs lighter than the maro, so its understandable that your car is slower.

p.s. remember you can always fix the slower problem by slapping 2 more cylinders on the girl :smokin:

the lag may be normal, the metal draggin noise isnt, but hey, ill listen for it tomorrow. see if we can figure it out.

sounds like rusty rotors. mine does it when it's sat for a while.

IROC: Thanks again for checking the car out. I'll try to get some of the things that we discussed fixed.

I took a bunch of pictures for you all to see. I took waaaay to many to post in my opinion so check them out here http://www.phylum.net/camaro.php (I whipped it up real quick like).

Wow. Did we get a little camera happy? :wink:JK
Someone beat the hell outta that car! It's nice to see that you're trying to bring it back. Good luck with your endeavour and keep us posted!!

no prob man, glad to help out.

I probably shouldn't post this since I already posted something similar on another post but I haven't seen too much here regarding one performing an automatic transmissions swaps or auto to manual transmission conversion and what that entails. I found lots of helpful suggestions (like getting 700R4's although they can be a pain in the ass or the manual T56 kit etc), getting gears for the rear differential but not many technical details. I presume this is due to the fact that it should be done professionally. Has anyone done an auto-to-auto tranny swap? What about auto to man conversion? How much of a difference is there (other than the fact obvious that it's auto and manual) between the 700R4 and t56. (aka how would I benefit having one other the other or what can I expect is along the lines of what I'm looking for.

If I get a 700R4 or a T56 (or any other performance-geared tranny), I assume that I also need to upgrade or change the rear gear differential. Ideally I'll want to scarifice my top speed for a better accel, which suggests that I should get higher gears but I don't know all of the gear ratios available for this vehicle. More importantly, I don't want to get a gear that will not perform well with the new transmission. (So whats a good gear for each type of transmission)

I am however confused on the whole 'rear-end' deal. The rear end is the following correct?

(rear from top)
Gear box (to so speak) = џ

Left Tire Ξ|----џ----|Ξ Right Tire

(to front)

It's the part between both tires, the shaft, plus X-Bolt device [where the gears are] in the middle right? (yes, I am a straight up newb..) Why would one need to upgrade the rear end? If you're going to get new gears, I presume that will also come with the housing portion right Or not necessarily? And where is the posi device on the rearend? Like, does it have to do with the way the whole bar is setup or is that contained within the gear holding apartus?

Here is a breakdown of my vin
1G1
USA-GM-Chevrolet
FP
Camaro Sport Coupe
2
Hatchback
1
Manual Belts
S
173-135 LB8
P9
Check digit
J
1988
L
Van Nuys, CA