Mach 1 vs. new GTO

WOW, I found the new GTO to be quite the lame, after reading car and drivers report. The 2003 mustang mach 1, which has 40+ hp disadvantage, racked up 0-60 in 0.1 seconds faster, and had same 1/4 mile e.t. Both cars were driven by C/D. Now, for almost 4 grand less than a GTO, the mustang mach 1 is the one to buy. It pulls only 0.03 less Gs with a solid axle than the GTO has IRS??!?!? LAME!

Yup the GTO is a huge ass let down even to most hardcore GM fans
I just laffed as GM shot them self in the foot with this one though.

The GTO was just rebadged from a GM made car that was sold in Australia. It has no roots, and is just ploy to get sales by naming as a GTO. They new GTO is complete garbage in my opinion! Although them Aussie's do get some nice cars that the US never gets to see.

yeh in australia it was sold as a Holden. I too am very dissapointed at the new GTO. I mean i realy dont like GTOs at all even back in the day but i hate to think what the chevelle would be like if they brang it back

i wouldnt go as far as calling it garbage tho

Yeah I agree i saw one at the auto show. Kinda looks like a slightly larger cavalier with an LS1 motor. If thats the best GM can do they might as well bring back the camaro.

but you guys dont understand that GM already has its top sports car (corvette) and if they made anything faster and cheaper than the vette then they would lose alot of vette sales, and the corvette is their trademark.

I read a mustang magazine that test drove both cars and got 13.15 1/4 mile with the Mach 1 and like a 13.64 in the GTO (best runs). Then they took the GTO and hopped it up a lot and still only got like a 13.05. Needless to say, the GTO sucks large balls. The drivers could have been slightly biast, being it was a mustang mag.

GET BIGGER TIRES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(on GTO) oh and look in side each car then tell me which one is better, well actually i love them both. and this is really a worthless post of mine, sry!

I think the GTO is too plain.. Plus the body looks retarded.. It's like a rwd GTP... It's heavy, and the engine is old school garbage.. As for the gearbox, it feels sloppy and the throws feel too long.. So now we have a big car, with no feel for the road and a shitty gear box.. They should have that british guy from top gear test drive the thing... He'll let you know whats wrong with it... that guys great..
http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/500/148400Top_Gear_Crossfire_lo_006_0001.jpg

Hey, i was doing some research on the mach1.. I was looking for stock dyno tests and sadly i found some.. On this site they dyno a stock( AUTO) Mach1 and it only produces 227RWHP! thats so crapy.. in a car this heavy thats worth a high to mid 14 second pass...I think the GTO would eat the Mach 1 alive.. I think i'd buy a GTO before a mach1 just because of this one dyno run...http://www.slugbitchracing.com/clips-highoctane.htm

I think the GTO is too plain.. Plus the body looks retarded.. It's like a rwd GTP... It's heavy, and the engine is old school garbage.. As for the gearbox, it feels sloppy and the throws feel too long.. So now we have a big car, with no feel for the road and a shitty gear box.. They should have that british guy from top gear test drive the thing... He'll let you know whats wrong with it... that guys great..

Do you know what the hell you are talking about? are you so Ford bias that you wont even look at a car before criticizing it?
first it is only 200 pounds heavier then the mach 1, thats real HEAVY. old school engine? it is a completely new engine BASED OFF OF the LS1, its all aluminum 6 bolt main 350 horsepower. that is not old garbage. as for the gearbox.. have you ever even saw one of these cars much less drove one? the six speed equipped in these are some of the smoothest shifting and the "throw" is pretty close to the mach 1. and since when does 4 wheel independent suspension have no fell for the road? and a big car? it is smaller then the mach 1.
Now im not here to bash the Mach 1 because i think it is a great car. but it makes me mad when people talk shit about stuff they dont know shit about.

GTO = crap.

GTO = crap.
yeah yeah!!

did you guys also see that the Mach 1 Requires, not recomends, 91 octane?

And Corvettes require Mobil 1.

Ok, what's the problem?

As for the Mobil 1 it is recommended. So Mobil 1 and the guys up at GM have a little money exchange. Same with ford and Motorcraft. it doesnt say on a corvette (that i know of) if you do not use Mobil 1 oyu will damage your engine. BUT, on the Mach 1, if you do not use 91 octane you 1) risk engine damage 2) void warranty


i dont see why people are comparing these 2 vehicles. Fords #1 Sports Car vs GM's knock off of an old sports car. One built for performance one built for smooth quiet ride. Apples and oranges i think.

I went to the dealership and drove one yesterday, i put about 36 miles on the odometer. It's a nice ride and has all sorts of throttle response. I don't think that a 0 to 60 in 4.5 sec is feesible in this car. As much as i like the car, it's pretty much a grand prix with a kick ass engine. Now after saying all of that, I have driven a mach1 and now a new GTO. I think personally I would take the mach 1. Im not much of a fan of the Grand prix looks.

Top of the line Ford? Apples & Oranges? Well let me tell you this, after the many times GM quoted the GTO as a high performance car, capable of high performance, and avid accelerator, I expected more! The mach 1 isnt the top of the line mustang I tell you what. it comes at a measly 29,000 USD. The GTO is priced at SVT Cobra level, 1 grand less. And you know what? Mach 1 is more than 50 HP short of that vette engine in the GTO. There.

now now, arnt we all a wittle biased here, sure GM is trying to sell the GTO as a performance vehicle, but i dout thats why anyone would buy it, for one the GTO has an entior that screams comfort, id hate to ever take a road trip in the Mach 1, Car and Driver says that The GTO has the nices seats in any gm car, and that it is a great car to ride in for road trips, also in about a year there will be a Super Duty, Judge, GXP(or GTX), or whatever version of the GTO. So then well have to compare the lowest to the lowest jk(because then it would be v6 vs. v8). I just want to say that neither car is better, it depends on what kind of car you like, you cant really compare the currrent gen stang and new gto they are different beasts just like you cant really compare the 360 Modena and Ford GT,(sameprice very different performance, ford destroys the 360 in performance) but the modena is well a Ferari(cant spell). It all comes down to what company you like more, or what kind of car you like.

This GTO would probably be ok if they called it something besides a GTO.
The old school GTO was one bad ass ride. Calling this thing a GTO is an insult to the old one in my opinion. You have to admit those are large shoes to fill and I don't believe this LS1 grand prix look alike is cutting the mustard.

I dont understand what GM is doing. Look at the New impala for example it looks like an oversized malibu with a 6 cylinder. Sure its supercharged but let me tell you I drove it and it is nothing compared to the older body style (1996). And what about this new half pickup half sportscar model. That is by far the ugliest thing I have ever seen. Whoever designed it should be drug out into the street and shot.

I think GM should stop trying to improve what does not need to be improved. If they want to keep another LS1 powered vehicle in there line up they should have stuck with the Camaro and Trans am. And don't disgrace yourselves and insult us with half ass combacks like this wanna be GTO.:2cents:

This is what GM is working on right now and will compare with the Mach 1.
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0312PHR_Fifth_Reloaded/
This was a kid who didnt want to see the camaro go so he drew his own and he now works at GM on this project.
The GTO is mor eof a luxury car then Sports car and GM states that. Thats why i say apples and oranges. Thats like comparing The lightning to GM's Silverado HD with the 496ci. yeah the lightning is faster but lets slap a dozer on a steel gooseneck on them then run them down the quarter.

The new GTO is fast, but it doesn't look like a sports car. To me, It looks like the Grand Am/Pre

If you have a V8 sports car, you should at least use Plus Gasoline, not regular.

[QUOTE=okie-chevy-man]This is what GM is working on right now and will compare with the Mach 1.
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0312PHR_Fifth_Reloaded/
This was a kid who didnt want to see the camaro go so he drew his own and he now works at GM on this project.


Now that was tight. I hope GM follows through.

I like the Mach 1 Just for its style cmpared to the Gto nothing against the gto. I just think the Mustang has better style and they followed the herritage better.

im all for bringing the camaro back, but why the hell do companys continue to style their cars like the 60s??? its a new car, it should have a new design....

If you want a badass GTO, just go and import one from Holden, you'll get much better results than getting a toned down version through Pontiac...

Sounds like even the GM guys can't make up their mind.

Ford = 1
GM = -1

They should've kept the Trans Am.

Anyways, Okie man, where in the state are you from?

trans am(and gto and some caddies) the best and only good gm car! ok ok just kidin, sort of.

Opinions are fine and all but yeah Highflow were you not bitching at the Camaro folks for giving their opinion of the Mustang in their forum (aka slandering the stang)? So uh "GTO = crap" and the latter is ok?

Opinions are fine and all but yeah Highflow were you not bitching at the Camaro folks for giving their opinion of the Mustang in their forum (aka slandering the stang)? So uh "GTO = crap" and the latter is ok?


Knocking on the Mustang how? Conext is context.....

And I think most GM lovers would agree the new GTO is crap. It's a good car but by slappin the prized GTO name on it you expect certain things this does not deliever especially after cancelling the F-bodies. The whole thing is leaving a bad taste in GM fan's mouths and I can't blame them.

I compare it to when Ford first went to the less friendly 4.6 mod motor in heavier 96 Mustang 215HP and not a hot rodders friend at the time at all. This all while GM was still makin 300HP LT-1's for the F-bodies. Ford guys didn't quickly switch to GM's just like GM guys aren't racing to buy Stangs. But the GTO was a great name and GM guys were looking for it to live up to it's name and be an answer till the F-body returns and it's not really either of these.

Opinions are fine and all but yeah Highflow were you not bitching at the Camaro folks for giving their opinion of the Mustang in their forum (aka slandering the stang)? So uh "GTO = crap" and the latter is ok?
I was defending the Mach 1, which deserves some acknowledgment. If you have noticed in the past I have also talked crap in the Camaro forum about first gen 4.6L Mustangs as well. I also wasn't "bitching" but just stating facts that were somehow ignored or unknown, I have nothing against other brand cars or what not, and am trying not to be biased.

I was simply trying to make my point, that I do not like the fact the "GTO" badge was just thrown onto a random car that was already in production elsewhere and then hyping it up to be a muscle car great. I would have much rather them make a car specifically designed to fit the "GTO" name. If that were the case I would be thrilled and definitely be all gun ho for the new "GTO".

It's like a rwd GTP...

:thumbsup: Right on! It looks just like the now older GTP style. But for a guy who went through a '98 & '01 GTP I like the GTO a lot. Interior is nice, the seats are WAAAAAAAY better than the shitty perfo-stitch GTP garbage, and its RWD.

But I definitely wouldn't put the new GTO in the same category as the Mach1. It ain't a pony car or a musclecar, its.... a rwd GTP. :grinno:

...and the engine is old school garbage

:thumbsdow Dead wrong! Love it or hate it, the LS1 is the most sophisticated and arguably the most powerful small-block pushrod design every built.

I'm not going to get into a fight defending the LS1 (I don't really dig that motor myself), but if you think its garbage because of its pushrods
explain to me why? Does garbage mean unreliable or underpowered? The fact that a 1950's-derived design can still outdo let alone keep pace with modern multi-valve/twin cam engines tells you its not garbage. Who cares if the design is old? Why change a good thing.

BTW, take a look at America's two big street machines - the Viper and the Z06 - naturally-aspirated pushrod power ... at its best!

:thumbsup: Right on! It looks just like the now older GTP style. But for a guy who went through a '98 & '01 GTP I like the GTO a lot. Interior is nice, the seats are WAAAAAAAY better than the shitty perfo-stitch GTP garbage, and its RWD.

But I definitely wouldn't put the new GTO in the same category as the Mach1. It ain't a pony car or a musclecar, its.... a rwd GTP. :grinno:
If they had decided to label it as a "new GTP" I think I would like it all that much more. There's just something that gets to me about calling it a GTO.

Oh yeah, pushrod power all the way! LOL

Thats right. Push rod all the way. The only thing I like about this GTO is that it has the LS1. But they should have never called this thing a GTO, I think thats going to hurt them in the long run.

mach 1 for life screw the rest

They should've kept the Trans Am.

True dat. It has been speculated that GM pulled their camaro/firebirds for a few years because sells were dropping and they want to reintroduce tobosst sales. didnt that work for the corvette?

Anyways, Okie man, where in the state are you from?

Tulsa area. Kellyville actually.

I think we've established that the mach1 wins over the GTO in every category. As for the camaro, I like them ok but what was Chevy to do but kill em. With the cobra's runnin 390hp now for $33k the camaro couldn't be made to outrun the corvette. Camaro's were slightly overpriced and a dying breed, Chevy knew that a while back. Although i am all for Chevy bringing them back as a special edition, as long as it doesn't end up like the GTOs.

I don't really like the new GTO, sure it's got 350 horsepower, but it's not true to the spirit of the original IMO. It's just a Monaro with a Corvette Engine. I'm not going to say it's slow because I'm sure it could kick my ass any day, but somehow it just doesn't feel right, it's not intimidating. My uncle had a 68 GTO; it was running something like 11.88. To me, it's a car that's supposed to scare you at a stoplight, this new GTO doesn't. It still looks like a Grand Prix on steroids. Just my :2cents: .

2004 GTO 6 speed. Bone Stock

Went to the strip on Saturday.

Removed the spare tire and jack only. Lowered rear tire pressure to 20lbs

Here is my best time of the day.


R/T .154
60' 1.915
330' 5.435
1/8 Mile 8.459
MPH 79.48
1000' 11.107

1/4 mile 13.320

MPH 104.16


http://images5.fotki.com/v61/photos/4/42075/345270/2004gtotimeslip-vi.jpg?1079281771

Three runs.

Launched at idle on all runs, slipping the clutch, then flooring it. bad wheel spin on the first run, but no wheel hop . Speed shifted on the 3rd run.

1st run 13.6@103
2nd run 13.45@104.
3rd run 13.3@104

It's all in the launch and the first 60'

1st run 60' time 2.1
2nd run 60' time 1.94
3rd run 60' time 1.91


It doesn't look like a GP or Cavalier either.

http://images5.fotki.com/v61/photos/4/42075/741959/DSCN0026-vi.jpg
http://images5.fotki.com/v60/photos/4/42075/741959/DSCN0031-vi.jpg
http://images5.fotki.com/v62/photos/4/42075/741959/DSCN0040-vi.jpg
http://images5.fotki.com/v60/photos/4/42075/741959/DSCN0047-vi.jpg
http://images5.fotki.com/v60/photos/4/42075/741959/DSCN0072-vi.jpg

Have a good day gentlemen.

Sorry, you can't tell anyone the front of your car doesn't look exactly like a GP.

But hey, nice car and great run. It sounds and looks like you're a guy with lots of drag racing experience. You'd probably have no trouble getting a Mach1 into the 12's... :naughty:

This GTO would probably be ok if they called it something besides a GTO.
The old school GTO was one bad ass ride. Calling this thing a GTO is an insult to the old one in my opinion. You have to admit those are large shoes to fill and I don't believe this LS1 grand prix look alike is cutting the mustard.

I dont understand what GM is doing. Look at the New impala for example it looks like an oversized malibu with a 6 cylinder. Sure its supercharged but let me tell you I drove it and it is nothing compared to the older body style (1996). And what about this new half pickup half sportscar model. That is by far the ugliest thing I have ever seen. Whoever designed it should be drug out into the street and shot.

I think GM should stop trying to improve what does not need to be improved. If they want to keep another LS1 powered vehicle in there line up they should have stuck with the Camaro and Trans am. And don't disgrace yourselves and insult us with half ass combacks like this wanna be GTO.:2cents:
I think I'm going to have to agree here. They take an exsisting body style slightly changed.Looks like a Gran Am/everyother Pontiac out there.Don't get me wrong,I believe it has Balls!!But why call it a GTO???That's like calling a new car an El Camino with a pretty decent engine,but with the body of a Malibu,Cavalier,.It's like a sex change,you see the difference.Sometimes it's hard to tell.But, you can always spot something that is out of place.

2004 GTO 6 speed. Bone Stock

Went to the strip on Saturday.

Removed the spare tire and jack only. Lowered rear tire pressure to 20lbs

Here is my best time of the day.


R/T .154
60' 1.915
330' 5.435
1/8 Mile 8.459
MPH 79.48
1000' 11.107

1/4 mile 13.320

MPH 104.16


http://images5.fotki.com/v61/photos/4/42075/345270/2004gtotimeslip-vi.jpg?1079281771

Three runs.

Launched at idle on all runs, slipping the clutch, then flooring it. bad wheel spin on the first run, but no wheel hop . Speed shifted on the 3rd run.

1st run 13.6@103
2nd run 13.45@104.
3rd run 13.3@104

It's all in the launch and the first 60'

1st run 60' time 2.1
2nd run 60' time 1.94
3rd run 60' time 1.91


It doesn't look like a GP or Cavalier either.

http://images5.fotki.com/v61/photos/4/42075/741959/DSCN0026-vi.jpg
http://images5.fotki.com/v60/photos/4/42075/741959/DSCN0031-vi.jpg
http://images5.fotki.com/v62/photos/4/42075/741959/DSCN0040-vi.jpg
http://images5.fotki.com/v60/photos/4/42075/741959/DSCN0047-vi.jpg
http://images5.fotki.com/v60/photos/4/42075/741959/DSCN0072-vi.jpg

Have a good day gentlemen.
It does'nt look like a GP?? Are we looking at the same picture of the front end of the car??? If I saw it driving on the highway,and I had the stereo up and did not hear the exhaust.I'd think ,Damn look at that GP/GA he's flying.I'd wonder what you had in that thing.It is very nice looking,and I'm sure it drives like a dream .It's just that if you don't see the GTO emblem,you might think GA/GP,that's all I'm saying.

I think we've established that the mach1 wins over the GTO in every category. As for the camaro, I like them ok but what was Chevy to do but kill em. With the cobra's runnin 390hp now for $33k the camaro couldn't be made to outrun the corvette. Camaro's were slightly overpriced and a dying breed, Chevy knew that a while back. Although i am all for Chevy bringing them back as a special edition, as long as it doesn't end up like the GTOs.
Yes,I sincerely hope that they don't get stupid with the design of a possible special edition.You're right, they would not make a Camaro that would outperform the Corvette.There is a place I believe is in Mich.Called "Berger something or another."Some of the Camaros that they built were slightly powerful(understatement.)Imagine a car like that with a supercharger,or whatever high priced horsepower streching device you could think of.Anyway,I'd better keep quiet .Lest I have people with a sincere desire to choke me to death.

This is what GM is working on right now and will compare with the Mach 1.
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0312PHR_Fifth_Reloaded/
This was a kid who didnt want to see the camaro go so he drew his own and he now works at GM on this project.
The GTO is mor eof a luxury car then Sports car and GM states that. Thats why i say apples and oranges. Thats like comparing The lightning to GM's Silverado HD with the 496ci. yeah the lightning is faster but lets slap a dozer on a steel gooseneck on them then run them down the quarter.
Hi,I was just curious,I saw the picture before. I did'nt look at the link you provided.Being that I gotta run.But,The picture I saw before resembled a middle 60's style Camaro.Very cool and Retro looking.Is it true that kid is working for GM now???Where did you get the info??That would be very interesting to see what Chevy can put out.I'm not that impressed with the Monte Carlo v6& I think an Impalav6(supercharged,oh be still my beating heart!!)Anyways,I'd love to see Chevy prove that their designs can still hang with the (other) car companies.

It sounds and looks like you're a guy with lots of drag racing experience.
Agreed! Those are some nice 60 ft's, you can see where they helped you out on the 3rd run. It's tough having self control in a higher hp/tq vehicle.

Nice GTO.....................Of course Im talking about the green one in the middle, not the cavalier grandprix lovechild parked next to it with GTO sideburns.

Listen no disrespect If you like the New GTO more power to you but I think its safe to assume that most people are going to say it looks just like a grand prix. And regardless of what anyone thinks I think GM should be ashamed of themselves for calling it a GTO.:nono:

The new GTo is cool.. i'm glad GM has a semi fast car now to compete with the mustang...But it's not even american, how can they call it a GTO.... I think if they were gonna make a GTO they should had started from sctracth and not be lazy and take an old idea..i mean if you look at the GTO's over the yrs you can see the resemblance.. This car is not worthy of the GTO badge, but hey it's a car that can be good competetion to Mustangs so sweet

Back to comparison:

Considering it is half a grand less than an SVT Cobra, a whopping 1.1 litre higher displacement than an SVT Cobra - lets not even compare it to an SVT Cobra. Mach1. The GTO is nearly 5 grand more than a Mach 1. 1.1 litres more, makes 50+hp more, but racks up near identical times and a worser 0-60? I think i wud definately opt for mach 1 if not SVT Cobra.

is the GTO underated like the mach 1? the mach 1 makes 283 rwhp which is about 331 bhp asuming 15% drivetrain loss. i was seriously supprised when i found out the mach 1 runs 13.1's. some one said that the mach 1 auto makes 227 rwhp. wtf are you thinking? the auto GT makes 215 (getting all info from mm&ff). i dont even see why anyone would get a GTO when you could spend $500 and get a cobra. 'on paper' it makes 390 bhp, but it already makes 386 rwhp.... thats like 430+ bhp. that car can out run most vettes..... probably could do 12.5 w/ hard top (12.67 w/ rag top)

The GTO was just rebadged from a GM made car that was sold in Australia. It has no roots, and is just ploy to get sales by naming as a GTO. They new GTO is complete garbage in my opinion! Although them Aussie's do get some nice cars that the US never gets to see.
This is story

Holden took a rebadged GTO/Lemans and named it the Monaro (this was back in the GTO Heyday) The GTO/Lemans was discontinued in the states while its rebadged "brother", the Monaro, continued to develop and change (as all cars do) until it was shipped back over here, so in a sense it does have just as much roots as any other car. I mean you can base it on looks, Just look at the new 'vette and the original one, very little resemblance in appearance or performance.

This is story

Holden took a rebadged GTO/Lemans and named it the Monaro (this was back in the GTO Heyday) The GTO/Lemans was discontinued in the states while its rebadged "brother", the Monaro, continued to develop and change (as all cars do) until it was shipped back over here, so in a sense it does have just as much roots as any other car. I mean you can base it on looks, Just look at the new 'vette and the original one, very little resemblance in appearance or performance.
Humm, very interesting!!! Still if it was rebadged then it lost its GTO routes IMO.

This is story

Holden took a rebadged GTO/Lemans and named it the Monaro (this was back in the GTO Heyday) The GTO/Lemans was discontinued in the states while its rebadged "brother", the Monaro, continued to develop and change (as all cars do) until it was shipped back over here, so in a sense it does have just as much roots as any other car. I mean you can base it on looks, Just look at the new 'vette and the original one, very little resemblance in appearance or performance.

Thats a real good story but I'm sorry I am not buying that BS. :disappoin If it was discontinued here than thats it. Dont give me this story about its twin going overseas and returning to the states to pick up where its brother left off. Sounds like a real bad Van Damn Movie.

If you are going to bring back the GTO and EXPECT IT TO GO OVER WELL in the U.S. You need to sit down with photos specs and a model of the original GTO and start your design from there. Now because this car was discontinued or for your sake had no time to evolve HERE. This is precisely why a newly designed GTO must carry on some of the same design charactaristics of the original. It sort of pays tribute and respect to its predecessor but most importantly ties the two together. As far as performance goes the LS1 was a great choice for the new GTO, but its the design of the car itself which has disrepected the name GTO.

ditto to that.. heres where i stand.. I think the "GTO" is cool cause its a modern car with some v8 power, but the whole GTO name ain't workin... As for the mach 1 i feel its overrated..

Ok if anyone has experience with high power cars and knows how power is supposed to feel like would you mind if i ask u to take a drive in a GTO and compare to Mach 1?