so what are some easy cheap upgrades?

i need to know cause from what i'm seeing for a 2000 camaro ss everything is over $600 and how much is this stuff to install? what can i do to run 12's like 12.5 in the 1/4 how much will it run me, it seems that i takes more to get these things movin into the 12's. i know some of you might say they do run 12's, but for the most part they run more like 13.5. will it take me 3grand just to take off 1 second off my 1/4 mile or what?

and my friend will be getting his 2000 Z28 in about 2 weeks what does he need to do to get in the 12's. mind you, i dont know much about these cars, i just bought a camaro mag and the parts to add to your car are expensive most parts are thousands, or maybe i just looked in the wrong book, feed me knowledge :smile:

so I'm confused. you don't want to spend over $600 on parts but you want a car that runs in the 11's and 12's ???? :uhoh: Nos alone would shave around a second off your 1/4 mile time and thats no where near around 3 grand. Also, getting a camaro ss into the 11's is very possible. I went to my local drag races three nights ago and there was a camaro ss (98-02) that ran in the 11's. As far as i could hear it wasn't turbocharged or supercharged but it did have a shot of nos. for 3 grand i'm not sure you can get your car into the 11's but you should get pretty damn close, i'd estimate around mid to low 12's with a shot of nos and a few extra goodies.

in the February 04 CAR CRAFT is an article about Lincoln Tech getting a stock LS1 down to mid 12's. No cam change, headwork, or internal engine work, but it did take close to $3000 in parts. it aint cheap :grinno:

yeah man, welcome to the car hobby, speed aint cheap, regardless of what anyone tels you. nos is the best bet for that price range, but with that money, you could put on some ported heads, and a cam,(well have yours ported anyway) and run low 13's high 12s im pretty sure.

i always hear about people blowing there engines with nitrous, and yeah i'm not looking for 11's just 12's

125 HP shot is the the max I would to to a stock LS1. I would also get a wet shot, I don't trust the MAF to do all the fuel metering for something as destructive as Nitrous

EVENESSENCE KICKS ASS... and damn shes hot :) has anyone noticed that singer chicks have very talented mouths???? ;)

but yeah anyway back on subject, nitrous when used intellegently is perfectly safe. just do like hypsi said on the 125 shot and wetflow. use your head, read up on the subjet, and you should be fine.

thanks you guys.

whats the best exhaust to get and best intake to get?

dont call nitrious NOS damn it...but yea your not running 12's or 11's unless you dig a little deeper into your wallet

to get 12's on an LS1 is not hard. Get an airbox, better flowing exhaust, and a higer stall converter. Also have to learn how to drive the thing. we just put a stall converter on my buddys car. he ran a 13.2 with the stock one. I bet $100 that it will run high 12 this summer.

Everyone wishes they could get more power for cheap. Whenever I talk to old motor heads they make it seem like you need to put 10k into an engine and beef up every part of the car to make it into a streetable monster. Well look guys, you're the same as us kids except 20-30 years older and it's a little easier for you to dish out thousands of dollars than it is for us, and infact in the spirit of the classic muscle I would think that the emphasis would not be "it doesnt matter how much it costs if you want the power you dont ask that just dish out the money and do it", it should be more like "learn how to do things yourself with someone knowledgeable to help you along". that's one thing that really steems me too. no, i dont have five thousand to just go buy an ls1 and get it decked out to hell so i can beat everyone on the street. im lookin at rebuilding my engine right now and it really does suck because most of the money isnt even in the damn parts its in the labor. people around here want a thousand bucks just to take an engine out and put it back in, plus the time it takes to install parts and your lookin at a lot of money man. now sure i know what people are gonna come back at me with, "oh well thats cuz it takes a lot of expirience and knowledge to do that kind of work". are you kidding me? im a computer techy myself, it takes a lot of expirience and knowledge (in the eyes of you older folks at my local college) to hand code a website, but anyone who takes the time to LEARN it and work with the basic tools can develop the skills they need to do virtually any kind of high end web coding in a simple notepad program! its funny how the philosophy of doing things yourself goes out the window when someone has the opportunity of making a lot of money.

Theres a big fundamental difference between mechanics working on cars and people typing. . .
Instead of bitching about paying so much why dont you learn how to do it yourself? (Maybe then you'll understand why they want so much eh?)

Theres a big fundamental difference between mechanics working on cars and people typing. . .
Instead of bitching about paying so much why dont you learn how to do it yourself? (Maybe then you'll understand why they want so much eh?)
i was sorta thinkin the same thing.

hah tell that to the older folks taking tech courses at virtually any college across the country. most of em would rather have root canal. as far as comparing mechanical labour to typing thats not fair, more-so i would compare time spent and knowledge required. as far as mechanics go i do most of the work on my cars myself, there are just some things that certain people would rather have someone else take care of. the point is $60/hour is ridiculous, and subsequently ive seen several local speed shops take a nose dive. if you couldn't notice the sarcasm in my last post the conclusion is most deffinetly to do it yourself. oh and btw speed shops are overpriced, if you guys sized down your ego for a second and lowered the price you would realize how much more business you could attract. i help a lot of people find places locally to have performance work done and most of them end up going with simple bolt-ons and a "phat stereo" because of the price. this isn't 1955 guys there's hardly any help for aspiring mechanics other than to dish out the cash unless they make some good friends at the strip, and most younger adults arent walkin round with 3k to dump into *only* the engine. ridiculous, get your heads out of your butts and realize that its not only about performance anymore and having fun the emphasis nowdays is on money and if you don't believe me i dont care because i deal with this business and the unhappy customers it creates every-single-day.

as far as comparing mechanical labour to typing thats not fair

That was my point... I think thats what you were doing.
not trying start an argument here. no more posting on this thread for me

hehe no it's ok i wasn't exactly clear on what i meant. basically more general concepts the whole point of what i was tryin to say is it's kind of over-priced which is my own oppinion anyways ya know. all goes back to quantity vs. quality, i guess you can't have both but that don't mean people won't bitch about it ;-)

well, as a tech, might i offer an explination as to why the rates are where they are??? do you have any idea how many customers come in, find out a ton of stuff wrong on the car, refuse repairs and leave?? technitions are only allowed to charge an hour for checkout. so the hourly rate must be high enough to accound for this, andgive the tech enough money to live off of. not to mention that most work is warrante work, which for those of you who dont know, only pays half rate, so again, regular wages must be high enough so that the tech dosnt starve to death on warrante work. Also the fact that you are even compairing working on cars to computers is a bit insulting. ive done both. the work i do on computers does indeed take knowledge, nowhow, and skill. but working on cars is just that, working, and its hard work. so i really have no guilt for charging people the 84 bucks an hour to repair their cars.

:bigthumb: nicely said

Well I'm one of the folks that sends mechanics their business. 84 bucks an hour. thats hilarious. there is no 100% justification for the rate that most mechanics charge. $60/hour is over the top so as it is, if you don't think so then I'm sorry for that but I would say that someone defending their trade would have more reason to do just that than someone who has dealt with both sides of the business. There is no way in hell you're making a decent living doing work at $84/hour, please just spare me the arguement that's well over the highest rates I've seen in my area I've walked out of garages laughing at them when they tell me anything over $50/hour, 45 is the rate I try to send most of my clients to, and they are quite thankful that they pay less :-) as far as putting food on your table, well if you can find people to pay that much then good luck, ask anyone who gets their car serviced to pay that much, theyll bust out laughing. if you wanna defend it go ahead but it's quite obvious that anyone who would defend that rate is also defending their job. hell even auto body shops around here dont go over 60 man im done with this post thats just insulting to my intelligence. oh and if working on cars is hard work for you try working on a farm lol.

so basicly your saying im lying about our hourly rate??? then your a moron, because you obviously live in a low rent area, and by that i dont mean the projects, im talking out in the country. i live about 20 minutes outside of washington DC, in fairfax county, the richest county in the country. so naturally everything here is more expencive. so just because youve never seen it, dont mean it aint true. and if i come off soundling like someone defending their job, you sound like someone who thinks the world owes him something. like a free oil change ;) man, your one of those ignorant pricks that thinks hes got a handle on things, and everyone else is wrong. im glad your done here, we can do without your bullshit. oh and my family is from south carolina, and my relitives DO have a farm, which i have worked on, and yes it is harder work, im glad that became a pissing contest as far as who works harder.

and if i come off soundling like someone defending their job, you sound like someone who thinks the world owes him something. like a free oil change ;)

Good show... Tell it like it is.

Is Fairfax county really the richest county in the nation, wouldn't it be Manhattan county in New York

Manhatten is a Borough not a county but I have always heard that Los Angeles County was number 1 followed by Westchester County , NY, 2 but that was years ago so I could be wrong but 89IROC&RS was right hard work is hard work and there where things I started working on ,on car that after I was halfway or sometimes even finished I would be glad to pay the 84 Per Hour to have someone else do let alone waranty, Also quility work is worth what ever the client who go there are willing to pay and he is working so it must be worth it. Oh and sykotic1 I don't know what it is about the way you tend to refer to things but you really come off like a pompous a$$ and what if someone told you that you where not worth what people paid you, I'm pretty sure you would get insulted and I have never worked as a mechanic a day in my life

do you have any idea what a good mechanic spends on tool???? or what shops spend on diagnostic equipment?? thats why they charge $60+/hr. i have a few buddies who've spent upwards of 100grand on tools. hell a decent scanner is about 5 grand. not all mechanics go all out but i'd say the average tool box has at least 25 grand in it. if you want to save money go to sears or jiffy lube but don't come whining to me when they screw up your ride because they don't know what the hell they're doing. sure you can do most jobs yourself if your mechanically inclined and want to save some money but i've seen people try to fix a problem by spending a shitload of money on parts because they don't know how to test them and they keep throwing parts at the problem which may or may not fix it. the alternative. pay a mechanic $100 for diagnostic time to pinpoint the problem. have you ever pulled a motor?? or broken off a rusted bolt??? i seriously doubt it or you'd have a lot more appreciation for mechanics. i'm no longer a mechanic but it always pissed me off when some idiot brought his piece of shit car in and expected to get it fixed for free. sure i used to all kinds of quick fixes for free because i knew exactly what was wrong and fixed it in about 5 minutes it's these little things that bring people back if they have a serious problem. just remember time is money. people like you don't understand that. go ahead and buy 50 grand worth of snap-on tools, open your own speed shop and charge 10/hr if you want to i'm not gonna stop you.

for once I have nothing stupid to say...

BTW... Manhattan is a borough, which means district, of New York City, AND a county of New York State.

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.


borough

n 1: one of the administrative divisions of a large city
.
Sorry Joseph not to be a A$$ but I grew up in Westchester County, NY (20 Minutes outside Manhatten) and just moved from there and I learned at a very young age that a Borough is not a county but if you don't believe me check out what webster had to say about it

We were talking about hard work not who works harder. i also never said you lied about your rate but i deffinetly think its way over the top. as far as tools go, you're trying to relate a dealership's (or a complete auto shop's) amount of money spent on tools to the tools required for an engine rebuild. Give me a break, I have buddies who could rebuild an engine out of kitchen tools. You think its that hard to grind down a crank huh? You think you need thousand dollar balancing tools too? That shows how far you've pushed you're knowledge. You can substitute all day and the only thing it would have an effect on is the time to complete the work. I've seen people do amazing things with some strong arms, a wrench set, and a micrometer. time is money? i understand that concept pretty good, but if you just take that phrase for what it is then you're telling me you can charge whatever you want which is bullshit. The whole point of this discussion is that you can rebuild an engine yourself without paying $2500 for someone else to do it, plus parts, and depending on how radical you get you're looking at well under a thousand bucks. So you're telling me that the equipment you have in your shop that might not even be used for the work, and your time, is worth a 100-200% increase? If you shop around (i.e. junkyard etc.) and get lucky you can build an engine up for less than you spend on cigarets in a month. Oh and btw - f*ck you's. You're a buncha f*cking thieves. I don't care what you have to say about how much you charge. I've already shot it down 3 times, you want lots of money because you feel that its justified, and thats fine! This is America afterall, but ya know what you just had someone check you on it because they know more than the soccer moms that come into your shops to get their oil changed. If you can get those kinds of prices then thats great, but there will always be people who would never pay that much for that kind of work because they can do it themselves. My arguement with you retards is over with, and my advice to anyone whos been reading this is to break out the diagrams and learn yourself. I doubt any of these other jacka$$es can lay out a complete block on a 20x4' whiteboard (thx Jules, very informative :-D ), they're trying to defend their jobs and justify their wages, you can't blame em for the arguement but when they try to mislead people thats really disappointing.

who said you mechanics had to eat, its not like you guys are human or anything...lol

i do enjoy the geography lesson though, the forum that keeps on giving. anywho, fairfax county is the richest in virginia i know, havent heard about the nation though. however i can vouch for the high cost of living none the less, i go to college in fairfax and it is not cheap...

geeze man, someone has trouble accepting that they mouthed off too much. when its you vs the forum, chances are, your wrong. as far as my hourly rate, it may be over the top where you're from, but here, its pretty standard, from shop to shop, brand to brand, so when you look at my area, we are not overcharging. so if you dont know the area where i live, and dont know the average price around here, perhaps you should let it go. cuz yes, you are wrong. Also i agree that you dont have to have the shop do it. i tore down my brothers bronco engine with a walmart emergency roadside kit, but thats a 1973 engine that you could fix with a hammer by hitting it hard enough. oh and yes, if you want the job done right, then you do need the propper tools, such as the balancing machines, and grinders, your shade tree mechanic buddies with sandpaper would not be allowed anywhere near my engine build up, not even for 30 bucks an hour. and you talk about substituting for results, i assume you are talking about balancing, but in that senario the only thing you are getting paid for is time, which means, that you would spend more time swapping parts than just machining the ones to the right specs, with the proper tools, so even with your lower rate, the customer would wind up spending more, you friggin douche. and i agree, i shop the junkyards all the time, scored an R code 350 with the Vortec heads for 100 bucks, only thing that was wrong was collapsed lifters and blown bearings from an intake leak. and i would totally suggest doing it that way. so long as you know what your doing, and what to look for. and no i dont think i got checked on anything, i think that your an idiot, cuz when it comes to the area in which i live, you dont have a fucking clue what your talking about. you dont seem to be able to grasp that concept. but yeah, anyone who can do it themselves is more than welcome to, and would be doing it themselves regardless of what we charged, so i dont really understand that argument. As far as being able to lay out a complete block on a 20-4' whiteboard, now your really puttig your foot in your mouth, i probly know more about engine design, and how a 350 chevy goes together than you ever will you errogant little prick. do you really think your the one and only god of engine concepts on this forum??? trust me, there are many people on here who know a hell of a lot more than you ever will. the one thing that i do agree with you on is that people should learn to do it themselves because its not that hard, and will save them lots of money. not to mention the great feeling knowing you fix it yourself. kinda the reason that i come on here, i spend my time on here, helping other people diagnose and fix their problems, which costs me and other techs buisness, but i do it cuz its a nice thing to do, and it makes me feel good, so maybe you should do a little homework before you start bashing people like me. but i will defend my job, because we dont gouge people, i havent lied, i havent mislead anyone. just cuz its not what you want to hear, and not the way you think it should be, dosnt mean its wrong. your the ignorant prick fucking NOOB that things everyone else on here is dumb. i wonder if youve even hit puberty you immature little fuck.

:owned:

Very nicely put

thank you.. thank you :)

BTW did you click the gallery link near his post's and see his car, It all made sense about him not wanting to pay a mechanic to work on his car! (it look's like my 5 year old Nephew put it together!!)

right on man!! i have no problem paying someone to do something i don't have the equipment or proper know how to do. sure i'll pay my machine shop 65/hr to grind and balance a crank or mill some heads down. thats just life man. he spent the time and money to get the equipment and is properly trained on how to use it.. how the hell do you grind a crank??? with a dremel tool in your kitchen?? this is america get used to it!! you sound like a damn commie..so it's a big crime that labour costs more than parts some times huh. so if i gotta spend 3hrs to pull a tranny because a $80 slave cylinder's blown i should charge what $50?? i think it's great that lots of people are fixing their own stuff but theres only so much a backyard mechanic can do with limited knowledge and tools... yeah i think plummers rates might be a little high but i'll pay one to crawl under my house to roll around in shit for few hours to fix the problem.. if you ask me computer techies are way overpaid.. but hey i don't know how to set up a network or fix it when a power spike fucks everything up so i pay one of those guys to fix it.. quit your damn bitching. you are truly pathetic

well hes a stang driver, guess that makes a bit of sense. but i mean, to be honest, the car dont look that bad, needs a painted hood, and the wiring under the hood looks pretty scary. but all in all not really that bad. I dont have anything against the guy really, so im not gonna bash his ride, i just think he has no grasp of anything beyond his little world, and cant accept that things might be different in another place, or another state. thats all. i just had to inform him of his ignorance.

True I just think if your going to talk SH*t about paying for people to work on your car and getting ripped off for stuff you can do yourself, You could at least paint your hood first and its not the cars fault its owner is a A$$

im not the assclown talkin about differences in regional rates for mechanics and then saying someone else is wrong for voicing a difference in mechanical work for their area. you make no goddamn sense. at this point its all incoherent bullshit about how you can perform better work than you've even seen. i never said anything about performing better work, i talked about performing cheaper work and gaining expirience. i also talked about swapping parts and performing your own work. you can do a lot to a stock engine but rebuilding all of it's original parts hits a brick wall if you want performance you change things you dipshit are you telling me you're not going to replace one part under the hood with a performance brand even if its GM it can be a performance part you're makin me laugh. as far as using tools you're just not getting the point. my emphasis was on rebuilding, not refurbishing. a good portion of an engine rebuild can be done using much cheaper tools, even internal work. if you need a press or a balancer you can find those with a little common sense without paying someone that kind of money (driveshaft or tranny shop theres plenty) and if the prices are that high in your area well then that fucking sucks doesn't it? anyone could find a quality shop within some kind of driving distance from you if you're in such a high class area. that's the whole point of this > to save money lol. you wanna talk about age thats hilarious, get a brain rook.

and btw that stang would've eaten you two for lunch. it wasn't meant to be a clean car but it pulled wheelies nice for the local ricers in the summer. stop your bitchin im gettin sick of puttin you fools down. you pay more for that kind of work big fucking deal, i prefer to go the extra mile to save money. and what you talkin about fish, that engine bay looks better than your whole damn car. lol

sykotic1, it looks like you got a cheap ass paintjob for that thing. I might be mistaken, dirt often is misleading... Did I mention it needs a car wash? I don't understand as to why you didn't wash your car before taking pics of it... How lazy is that, I mean really... :devil: No wonder your complaining about labor costs, you probably got fired for being so godamn lazy. As for mouthing off for all this time, I would just like to add that I think our chevy boys with v8's and 4 barrel carbs would willingly tear you a new asshole with ease and style...

just my... :2cents: ...

and btw that stang would've eaten you two for lunch. it wasn't meant to be a clean car but it pulled wheelies nice for the local ricers in the summer. stop your bitchin im gettin sick of puttin you fools down.
I'll tell you what Syskotic1, I offer you a challenge your about 2 hours from me. I will meet you at any 1/4 track from here to there and go for a ride and I guarantee you don't blow me away. I assume it must be fast as your not going for looks

All I am going to say is that 89IROC not only is respected here. He knows what he is doing. Besides, like he said, He comes on here to help people troubleshoot and repair their cars/trucks when really he should not be doing it! As it may not take money directly from him and where he works, it does take away money away from his profession. That in its self is extremely note worthy. Also about tools, I would not let a piece of sandpaper/shade tree tool even come close to my enigne. The key to a long running engine, perfmance or just a plain jane engine, is precision. I would rather take my engine to someone like 89IROC and have him use certified precision tools to cut on my eingine or any other piece that is going on my car.

oh and to thoes who shall remain nameless..... 89IROC does not just go off like that for no reason as far as I have ever seen. He has no problem with people contributing their two cents into a conversation (usually :p ) Anyway, people need to start being a little more respectable here. Espically the new comers.

In the words of Genopsyde... Just put a blower on it and everyone will be happy

if you want to talk about respect then read the posts and find out who took it personally and started to cuss people out, if you're going to justify them flipping out then you can't talk about respect. you're not gonna get your cake and eat it too with that theory. i also don't have that stang anymore. if you want to know how you woulda done then tell me if you can break 11s. i dunno what the v8/4 barrel thing was all about. Does that engine look like a 4 cylinder to you? Oh and it was a holley 750 4 barrel w/mechanical secondaries, nice carb but took a lot of maintenance.

might wanna lock the thread mr moderator ;-) i really think everyone has some good points but this is gonna go on forever because you have different people who know their shit arguing over their own personal expiriences.

I'm not tryin to start an additonal argument, but yo, Formula LT1, I live in Suffolk county, so i should know as well what I am talking about:
WORLDBOOK ENCYCLOPEDIA
N-O volume #14
article "New York City" p.323 1st paragraph, 2nd colum, last sntence...
"The city is divided into five areas called boroughs-Manhattan, the Bronx, Queens, Brooklyn, and Staten Island. Each is a county of New York State."
I'm sure everyone has access to a WB encyclopedia... mine is 1997ed but everyone knows that not much changes over the years, so the page # should be the same. But look it up, and then tell me I am wrong and that WorldBook is wrong, ok!

ok, ill admit that i got a bit more upset than i should have. ill apologize for that. but i had to call you out on two reasons. First, you seem to know a bit about the car hobby, and from what you say your in the buisness, meaning that you have friends that can do your work and such, and you can get deals. hence your view of how "outragous" prices are. and thats great. However the kid that started the post, sounded like a noob to the hobby, didnt know alot about the car, and therefore i wasnt about to suggest that he go buy a basic set of tools, and tear into a VERY complex computer controled engine doing hand tool modifications himself, when he didnt come off as a very experienced person. Thats a recipy for disaster, he would have ruined the engine, and had to spend several thousand for a new one. Thats 100% guarentee right there. So i saw it as giving bad advice, because if you want a job done right, you do need the tools, and the experience. I myself just paid to have a transmition guy put together my trans for me, i put it in, but i know nothing about the internals of an automatic trans, so i paid someone else to do it. thats life, you were basicly saying that its not life, that he can do all repairs, and all mods to the car himself, regardless of his current experience. and you were wrong. The second reason is yes, you were insulting me personally because you were essentially saying that i was robbing people. My first post was to only contradict that he should expect less than 50 bucks per hour, because unless you have contacts, thats just not possible. at least not where i live, and probly not for most people. At which point you stated that my prices were hilarious, blowing me off and again enforcing that he should expect 50 bucks or less. so yeah, i took it personal. As far as your mustang, you dont really need to include me in that, i only pointed out two obvious things, and yeah, it would have eaten both my camaros, cuz they are stock, and no, your engine bay does not look better than the firechicken, sorry. you just gotta realize man, however much knowledge you have in the real world, you cant just join a forum and start contradicting everyone, and trying to strut your stuff as being THE source of info.

by the way, thanx hypsi ;) that was a kodak moment, i think i need a hug :)

i was gonna say this might be the first time in history an arguement on forums ended in a good way. i admit a couple stressful days made me go off, hey its all tech talk and we all learn somethin from eachother so no hard feelins.

n1 all, and have a good day :D

lol, dont get me wrong though, i still win ;)