EOE Sliders as air tanks

Todd will this work?
I would say the main 2x4 section is strong enough but how about the bits welded on the ends. Is the inside coated with anything? I am concerned about rusting if moisture gets in there. A quick measurement on the volume came to 1.3 gallons each.

I have the QuickAir 2.5 gallon tank but can't find any places to put it. I know Gordon put smaller 1 gallon tanks in his front wheel wells, but if the sliders are strong enough, then this may be the way to go.

Thanks

Ouch.. I just blew up the side of my truck and the peices are scattered all over the eastern seaboard.

That is what I did with my JP products bars. No boom yet (and at a max of 110 lbs, it would need to be a REALLY crappy weld not to hold.) You can place drain cocks if rust is a concern.....place 'em wisely though, don't wanna knock on of them off.

I don't see what the big deal is. It's a low pressure emergency tire inflator, not a scuba tank. I am aware that compressed oxygen can go boom if the container is "compromised" but I really don't see that happening.

What does the mount for yours look like, Ned?

Matt

How many tires could you fill off a slider once converted?

How much pressure are you going to put in the sliders?

Where are you going to get them filled? Does a "air station" at a gas station contain enough pressure to sufficiently fill the slider for use?

Just curious, I'm interested in on board air. Affordable compressors are too slow and I would like to avoid the bluk of a CO2 tank. I'll probably end-up going CO2 eventually

I have a QA2 mounted in the engine bay. I will probably get some ARB lockers soon which require a small air tank. The ARB compressor comes with a very small tank.

Max pressure will be about 100psi. You will probably need about 10 gallons at 100psi to get your tires back up to pressure.

The main use for the tanks will be for lockers, may be some small air tools but I don't think the QA2 has the volume for it. It will also be useful for blowing off sand, lots of sand in Florida.

I'm just trying to find out what my options are.

Richard

Why do you need a larger holding tank for a locker? Aren't people running lockers off the QA2?

You could always go with CO2, run your lockers, fill your tires, run power tools, seat a bead, and yes, blow off sand.

I already have the QA2 so I won't be getting a CO2 tank. The lockers may work with a QA2 with no air tank, but it is recommended to use one.

Richard

Originally posted by Aussie
I have the QuickAir 2.5 gallon tank but can't find any places to put it.

Have you tried along the frame underneath ?

I've been thinking about the QA 2.5 tank for a while, and figured it would fit with the measurements advertised (24"x6").

It was a while ago that I tried it, but I believe it came below the frame and I wanted to get skid plate eventually. I will try it again this weekend and see if I can take some photos for you.

Richard

Originally posted by xoc


Have you tried along the frame underneath ?

I've been thinking about the QA 2.5 tank for a while, and figured it would fit with the measurements advertised (24"x6").

XOC,

I was unable to find a spot big enough to mount even my 1.25 gallon tanks, much less the 2.5 gallon one. I tried along the frame, but on the left side the exhaust is in the way and the right the fuel tank. You could mount one in the rear where the spare tire used to mount if you have relocated the spare. It would be best to use a pancake style tank and I couldn't acquire one of those for less than $150 or so. If you can get one used somewhere would be good.

As for using an air tank for air lockers, there is a reason to do this. While the ARB compressor stock can only power one locker three times before having to turn back on again, my system with 2.5 gallons of air can operate my lockers 33 times before re-engaging. This means I run the air compressor one time for one minute and 45 seconds, and then don't fire it up again until I start airing tires back up to get on the road. This means that my 100% duty cycle compressor will last that much longer since it isn't working so hard. You can accomplish the same thing using an ARB or QA2, but they max out at around 105 psi, reducing overall air volume and are slow to build pressure to that level. Instead of 1 minute 45 seconds, you are waiting 10 minutes or more for it to reach full pressure. I am not sure whether the compressors are 100% duty cycle or not, but if not, you could very well burn out the compressor doing that on a regular basis.

Originally posted by Goliath the X
How many tires could you fill off a slider once converted?

How much pressure are you going to put in the sliders?

Where are you going to get them filled? Does a "air station" at a gas station contain enough pressure to sufficiently fill the slider for use?

Just curious, I'm interested in on board air. Affordable compressors are too slow and I would like to avoid the bluk of a CO2 tank. I'll probably end-up going CO2 eventually

I don't think you know what the reserve tanks are for Goliath. It speeds up the "air-up" time when filling your tires or the other benefits War mentions. The QA2 with tanks is faster than without. The bigger the tank, the faster the fill.

I don't think anybody uses a pressurized skid rail like the scuba tank system.

All I did was tap into my line from the QA2 to the quick disconnect and run lines to each of the rails. I know the capacity isn't huge, but for a couple of bucks to drill, tap and add a couple of feet of line, it can't hurt either.

I am currently keeping a SCBA (Fire Department Breathing Apperatus) bottle in the truck for tire refill and air tools. It is very simular to a SCUBA tank. The tank holds 2216 psi and only drops 500 psi with filling 4 GY MT/R's from 16 psi to 32. The regulator that I have for operation is adjustable to 160 psi so it is easy to dial in 90 for the air tools. I am currently looking for a 4000 psi bottle for the additional air in the same amount of space. Approx. 8"dia x 24" long.

Bottle refill is not a problem with being a fire fighter.

There has to be a way to get smaller tanks that could fit under the Xterra. 4" Diameter or something.

Even if you have to connect a few together along the frame, maybe in front of the spare, under the rear seats.

Originally posted by Fletch908
I am currently keeping a SCBA (Fire Department Breathing Apperatus) bottle in the truck for tire refill and air tools. It is very simular to a SCUBA tank. The tank holds 2216 psi and only drops 500 psi with filling 4 GY MT/R's from 16 psi to 32. The regulator that I have for operation is adjustable to 160 psi so it is easy to dial in 90 for the air tools. I am currently looking for a 4000 psi bottle for the additional air in the same amount of space. Approx. 8"dia x 24" long.

Bottle refill is not a problem with being a fire fighter.

Fletch,

That is the same as running a Power Tank. I know I have heard of someone running a Power Tank in their X and one of the members of my group with a Pathfinder runs a dive tank set up the same way. They work well, they just take up a lot of space and cost money to refill. You spend money intially on an on-board air system, but it is an infinitely renewable resource after that. It really is a matter of deciding what you want to accomplish. Each has their good and bad sides.

Now, Why haven't we thought of using paintball air tanks for stuff like this? I can get a 114CU 4500PSI tank with adjustable regulator (0-1000psi) from a store (granted- a little pricy) but the fills are between $4-$8 depending where you go. Just a thought.

Originally posted by warmonger


Fletch,

That is the same as running a Power Tank.

No it is not. The SCBA or SCUBA tanks use normal air (mainly nitrogen), which exists in the tank as a pressurized gas. Powertank's use CO2 which will compress into a liquid in the tank. When you release pressure from the tank, it only evaporates off a tiny bit of the liquid into a gas from the top of the tank. Using CO2, you get a LOT more gas packed into the same size space as plain air becuase its stored on liquid form. The only drawbacks with CO2 are that its volume varies with temperature much more than normal air, the tank must be kept upright (so you get CO2 gas, not liquid), and that it is released at a very cold temperature, requiring consideration to be taken in hoses and other hardware. I'm planning on an on-board CO2 setup, so far all I have is the regulator and a valve though. I haven't yet decided on a 10 or 15 cuft cylinder. They cost about $10 to get filled at the local welding shop. It will be mounted in the rear of the truck, with permanent lines going to the front and rear with quick-disconnects for filling tires and running air tools. I believe paintball guns use liquid CO2 as well, though I'm not sure.

Originally posted by warmonger
Each has their good and bad sides. The good side is that I have CO2, the bad side is EVERYONE wants to use it every time we go out. :eek:

War & others,

Thanks for the reasoning behind the need for air tanks. Does an ARB locker require constant pressure to stay engaged, or does it only take one shot to lock it, then one to unlock it?

One concern I have about CO2 is that it will react with any moisture and create carbonic acid, which could damage the wheels, or at least steel wheels. Sure if there were any moisture in the first place it isn't good for steel wheels, but the acid would only make it worse.

?
Brent

Originally posted by OffroadX
One concern I have about CO2 is that it will react with any moisture and create carbonic acid, which could damage the wheels, or at least steel wheels. Sure if there were any moisture in the first place it isn't good for steel wheels, but the acid would only make it worse.

?
Brent I don't run steel wheels so I'm not too worried about it, but are you saying that this FAQ from Powertank is bull?

"Is the CO2 gas safe for tires?"
Yes. CO2 vapor is inert (non-toxic, non-corrosive). That's right-Non-Corrosive. Some seem to think that CO2 vapor is bad for your tires and rims. It is not. CO2 vapor is perfectly safe for your tires and wheels. In fact, your body produces CO2. CO2's thermal expansion rate is similar to air (~1 psi change per 17 degree F temp. change). CO2 is considered a "wet" gas because it does start out in liquid form but the amount of moisture content per cu. ft. of vapor is often less than what you would see coming out of an air compressor. There is no need to worry about running air tools with CO2 either. Just maintain your air tools to the manufacturers' recommendations with proper air tool oil.

CO2 itself isn't a problem, but if it dissolves in water it forms the acid. There could be enough water (a few teaspoons or more) in your tire from using crappy air-ups to pose a potential problem. I know I've seen some air-ups that spew a pretty good mist of water along with the air.

Brent

If I 'member back right......

H2CO3 (carbonic acid ?) forms H20 and C02 freely. It takes a lot of heat/energy/catalist to go back. Therefore, CO2 would be safe, right?

It is energetically favorable for H2CO3 to decompose into CO2 and H2O but the energetic potential is not enough for the decomposition to begin rapidly. Given enough time, H2CO3 will decompose. However a couple molecules of H20 will greatly increase the decomposition of H2CO3 by approximately 50 billion times (number recently calculated by a group of Austrian scientists).

H2CO3 + 2 H2O --> CO2 + 3 H2O

Originally posted by Goliath the X
It is energetically favorable for H2CO3 to decompose into CO2 and H2O but the energetic potential is not enough for the decomposition to begin rapidly. Given enough time, H2CO3 will decompose. However a couple molecules of H20 will greatly increase the decomposition of H2CO3 by approximately 50 billion times (number recently calculated by a group of Austrian scientists).

H2CO3 + 2 H2O --> CO2 + 3 H2O How in the f&*% would you know something like that?

It's mind boggling to me, or your filling me full of S#$%.

:flipa:

Thanks for the reasoning behind the need for air tanks. Does an ARB locker require constant pressure to stay engaged, or does it only take one shot to lock it, then one to unlock it?

Well, here is how I run mine.

Turn on ARB compressor. Takes about 7 seconds to fill the tank.
The compressor shuts off at about 100 psi.
Leave compressor on (but it is not running)

Turn on real locker. 'Instant engagement'.

Turn on front locker. 'Instant engagement'.

Turn front locker off and then back on. Compressor runs
for 2 - 3 seconds then shuts off. Front locker on. I think it
comes on instantly and the compressor then runs to refill
the tank.

While running with the locker(s) engaged, the air compressor
may turn on briefly at infrequent intervals - scares you the
first couple of times it happens.

This is using ARB's standard thin air line. Larger diameter air lines
would probably take a few seconds longer to 'charge'.

When you turn the locker off, a burst of air is discharged to the atmosphere. After several on/off's, the compressor will momentarily
kick back on to recharge the tank. The built in tank is slightly larger
than a can of cola. Doesn't take much to charge it.

I was little dubious at first but it is a well engineered system.

The only real problem I have had is that the switch face plates
keeping breaking the activation 'pin'. I am currently replacing the
plastic pin with a metal one.

Toy Man

It is not a momentary solenoid as best as I can tell. I have my front locker solenoid in but will not have my front locker in place until my lift kit arrives. I tested the solenoid and it flowed air until I shut it off. So if you have a leak in your line to the air locker or the seals went bad in the locker, you will have a leak in the system.

Originally posted by Craigs_Tonka
How in the f&*% would you know something like that?

It's mind boggling to me, or your filling me full of S#$%.



Goliath is a chemical scientist. He knows what he's talking about. :D

Originally posted by Goliath the X
It is energetically favorable for H2CO3 to decompose into CO2 and H2O but the energetic potential is not enough for the decomposition to begin rapidly. Given enough time, H2CO3 will decompose. However a couple molecules of H20 will greatly increase the decomposition of H2CO3 by approximately 50 billion times (number recently calculated by a group of Austrian scientists).

H2CO3 + 2 H2O --> CO2 + 3 H2O

H2O + CO2 <---> H2CO3 <---> H+ + HCO3-

with a pKa of 6.1 carbonic acid (the first proton anyways) should exist in a partially ionic form when dissolved in water. For example, the main reason acid rain is acidic (pH around 5.5-6) is because of the CO2 in the air, much of it from pollution. Same thing happens in your bloodstream. If you don't exhale enough, you don't blow off CO2. That drives the above balance to the right, making your blood more acidic. If you hyperventalate, the opposite happens and your blood becomes too basic. So, if you have a high concentration of CO2 in some water, it will have a tendency to drop the pH of that water, making it acidic...which might do bad things to wheels and rims.

And Mudphud is a brain surgeon, soon to be I should say!!! :)

Thanks everyone for the chemistry lesson BUT.. What is the bottom line? Airing up with CO2 is GOOD or BAD? I plan on buying a CO2 setup soon mainly to use my airtools with while on the trails for repairs, changing tires, etc. I have a normal air compressor for the tires if the CO2 is proven to be bad for tires/rims..
Another thing to consider.. Has any found any evidence (online) of damage to tires/rims/air tools caused by CO2? Im sure that CO2 was used for a long time to air up tires by Jeep, Ford and Chevy guys, if there were any problems associated with this, Im sure something would be posted somewhere, or someone would know something.

I know its not a simple yes or no or good or bad answer.

thanx

Originally posted by O1SalsaX
Thanks everyone for the chemistry lesson BUT.. What is the bottom line? Airing up with CO2 is GOOD or BAD?

I use it. I'm sure you'll be fine.

I'm just guessing here, but I think the problem is slim and perhaps even only theoretical. I mean, you're not afraid of acid raining eating into your tires/wheels are you? Sure, pressurized acid rain might be worse, but it's still basically the same thing.
:D