automatic vs. manual

I'm about to do a h22 swap on a 5th generation accord. However I haven't decided between an automatic and a manual transmission. I realize that I will get better performance from the manual but I would like to know how much more. My main concern for this car is driveability so an extreme light weight flywheel is out of the question as well as a racing clutch. So how much difference will I really tell and how well does a stall torque convertor work on Honda automatics. Thanks.

well here is my :2cents: , a manual will be better on the street because you can always choose what gear that you want to be in, letting the honda and their top end power more useful, however, they cant handle a lot of power and tend to break down faster. they also will not be good if you bracket race, as your times will not be consistent.

An automatic is better for track use, as you will get consitent times each run, great when racing in bracket. they also can acheive insanely fast launches. they can also handle a whole hell of alot more power running through them, plus everyday cruising is just easier. although street racing is harder, since you cant really downshift to get going faster, like in a manual.

Many companies make torque convertors for the honda b-series motor and a few make em for the d16 motors. they have been tested to drop over 1/2 second off 1/4 mile times as well.

so weigh out the pros and cons of each. and see which one fits you best.

Thanks for the great reply. I was surprised to hear that the automatic will handle more power than the manual. You talked about insane launches with the automatic, how exactly is this achieved. Are there other upgrades besides a torque convertor. Also, will a torque convertor harm the transmision. Thanks.

I could be wrong but I don't think he meant the autos could handle more power it's just that the auto oyu won't be able to downshift like you could in the manual.

actually i think he was correct in saying that autos can handle more power. Automatics can handle alot more torque than a manual because they are fluid driven.

well in that case my bad...sorry for the misguidance

automatics can get better launches because they are always in gear, whereas a manual, you need to first shift, before you start moving. there are many products on the market that allow automatics all the fun of driving a stick. www.levelten.com offers many of them. torque convertors can only affect an engine which cant support them, it wont damage anything though.

lol I don't know what is up with my sis's auto grand am (she didnt do any mod, trust me) but she can floor it an get redline in every gear. It won't shift until she lets off gas. Very neat IMO.

Levelten.com is a great site, thanks for the info. Within the site it talks about shiftronic. If I buy a JDM H22 auto, what are the chances of it being shiftronic.

well you would have to buy the shiftronic kit, they dont make em like that.

of course you can just shift the thing yourself, also known as power-shifting, where you start the car in 1 or L then just keep moving it up along the gears.

thanks for the link crxlvr. You're going with an auto B16 aren't you?

yes sir i am. it wont be no stock auto either, there will be many improvements to the tranny itself, nevertheless the motor.

Have you got it in yet. How much did you pay for your auto setup? sry for the questions, I'm just interested in going the same way. I was saving for it but I needed a motor fast and got a dohc zc for now.

well im just about done with the rebuild and addition of all my performance parts, im still deciding on smaller add-ons, like ignition, fuel delivery, etc, but the hardware side is complete, for now:D.

not including the cost of the motor, id say i spent around $2,000-$2,500 on extras. the motor itself was $1500 shipped.

I know they make some like that because i've driven one. However it was newer and I just wasn't sure how long that option has been offered.

A high stall torque converter hurts the mileage so it might be better to go with a manual for driveability. IMHO you either need more than 4 cylinders or forced induction to run an automatic in a performance street car. Otherwise the losses outweigh the gains.

when i get my auto 4cyl back, ill be running neck and neck with my boys tuned V8 Trans-Am.

Technical concerns are very important and 90% of the time you should go with what's best technically, but in my opinion you should go with the manual. Autos are for V8s, i.e. old men. It's one of the few bragging points we have over musclecar guys - "Sure your motor's five times the size of mine but why don't you grow a pair and get a stickshift?"

Plus the ladies love the stickshift.

Technical concerns are very important and 90% of the time you should go with what's best technically, but in my opinion you should go with the manual. Autos are for V8s, i.e. old men. It's one of the few bragging points we have over musclecar guys - "Sure your motor's five times the size of mine but why don't you grow a pair and get a stickshift?"

Plus the ladies love the stickshift.

And they can reply "Because my V8 makes so much torque it will blow the gears right out of the tranny" Seriously though, I think 90% of muscle car guys would love to have a manual, but they were usually the first cars to be crashed or turned into race cars and theirfore didn't survive. Plus, performance stick shifts are rare and expensive, while performance automatics are a dime a dozen. A $700 race automatic is as strong as a $3000 race manual.

Anyways, I'm not trying to start a debate, I'm just crusing here to offer advice.

Stick is better cause u can play with the rpm and the clutch, and get a good start. I raced an automatic prelude, i have a standard prelude and I smoked him off the line, and beat him in the race.

Automatic are for little boys who dont know how to drive.

No need to gat mean there but I have to say even if it is possible to "power shift" an auto it is not as fun as a manual in my opinion. If the power handling is a concern beef up the 5 spd. Plus you can't tell me that you can have as much fun running down the street throught 3 or 4 gear as you do with five. Well I am sure you can but I won't believe you anyway. hehe.

DoubleTap

Hey crxlvr, if u put ur car into first gear, than its the same thing, u dont leave it in neutral and than put it into gear, all u people are so dumb, get some driving skill and learn how to drive stick u bunch of tits!!

Fuck off noob. Just because you like blowing your stickshift off doesn't mean we want to do it to. I Know how to drive a stick but i prefer an auto beacuse I'm a lazy pot smoker. My auto redlines and gets me down the road quickly. Come race me when I get my motor in. Dick.

Hey u faggot i will kick ur ass any day with my h22 vtec lude. Grow a pair and learn how to drive stick u lil ho. Dont gimme that pot smoker lazyness excuse u fagbag, learn how to drive newb!!!

Like I said, Come down here in 2 weeks with $500.00 and I will smoke your ass. You will cry back home and suck off your stick shift some more and wish you could be cool. Pssh fuckin' noobs think they know everything.

come down here u stupid faggot with ur pussie 4spd automatic, go have fun riding ur gear shifter in D or F for faggot lil loser, ur lil crap civic can't touch my prelude stupid moron

Like I said, Quit blowing your stickshift and bring $500.00 so I can make you cry. Better yet. I know A guy with an auto honda that will race you for any amount of money. 2G -5G. You call it. Quit getting mad cuz' you know you suck you fuckin' noob.
-
Someone, would you please?

when enough power is made, an Auto is better due to the taller gear ratios.

lol u newbs make me laugh come race my lude and i will make u ride ur auto all nite long !!! lmao

Have u fags(newbies) even driven standard before, let me refraze, do u even know how to drive standard? Which gear is most powerful, which gear is the fastest? Can u even speed shift?? I doubt you newbies can answer any of that ur too busy riding ur auto up ur ass!!!!

why did everyone have to turn this thread to shit, this was a great tech article and now it worthless, cuz you 13 year olds gotta cry about whats better.

give it a rest.

Wow 5 year olds like urself can't answer the question, you know why because u dont no shit about standard. Why dont you go look up the answer somewhere on the internet and get back to me rookie

Thanks to the few people who gave an educated response to my question. As to the rest of you I never said that automatics were better. I'll be the first to tell you that a stock manual is faster than a stock automatic for obvious reasons. However, this car will be my daily driver while I'm at college on a very crowded campus, and I was just curious what the power difference would be between an automatic with an upgraded torque convertor and a stock manual. My intentions aren't to race just to enjoy my ride. So if anyone has any more information that's pertinent to my question I would appreciate your response.

Exactly. no one said an auto was better. So just shut up and hope you dont get banned.

Sry, crxlvr, I usually don't argue.......
juju4uofa, It;s up to you if you want a stick or an auto. They both have disavantges and advantges. Just do lil' research and make sure you are happy with your ride. :)

Lol u were trying to argue to me that auto was better and you still didnt answer my question newbie, there are a couple things that automatic losers have
1. no nuts
2. a pair hanging off their chest
3. thick glasses

ok SRV BOY and I have to emphasize BOY, I'll answer your question so you'll shut up.
Everyone knows that 1st gear has the most power. It usually has a 3:1 ratio and theirfore the most torque multiplication. 4th gear is the "fastest" in most cars because it's ratio is 1:1. Some cars can go faster in overdrive, but it all depends on the gearing, weight and power of the vehicle.

I'll be the first to tell you that a stock manual is faster than a stock automatic for obvious reasons. .


wrong... It is true in our hondas, only because honda doesn't make the most efficient autos. but some autos are faster.

look at mercedes for example their autos are proven to shift faster and more reliably than any standard being shifted by a human could be.

they only put a standard in the slk because it was wanted by the comsumer. look at all their other cars including the SLR, sl600, sl55 etc. all auto with manumatic. while they do have manumatic it is still essentially an auto.


anyway just because its a manuel doesn't always mean its faster than an auto.

Right, but they do make shift kits for some cars. On older cars you would drill out a small hole in the valve body to increase the line pressure. In newer cars you often just change the chip so that the computer makes it shift harder. I was wondering if anyone makes shift kits for hondas. I looked for one for a Subaru WRX but I couldn't find any mention of one.

Have u fags(newbies) even driven standard before, let me refraze, do u even know how to drive standard? Which gear is most powerful, which gear is the fastest? Can u even speed shift?? I doubt you newbies can answer any of that ur too busy riding ur auto up ur ass!!!!
http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/58570donttalkshit.jpg

Fuck off noob. Just because you like blowing your stickshift off doesn't mean we want to do it to. I Know how to drive a stick but i prefer an auto beacuse I'm a lazy pot smoker. My auto redlines and gets me down the road quickly. Come race me when I get my motor in. Dick.

dont be pointing fingers now at one person

frozen_Joth []
I'm in Disguise!!
Joined: Dec 2002

Status: offline
Posts: 402

03-05-2004, 06:45 PM Re: automatic vs. manual (Post #24)
Fuck off noob. Just because you like blowing your stickshift off doesn't mean we want to do it to. I Know how to drive a stick but i prefer an auto beacuse I'm a lazy pot smoker. My auto redlines and gets me down the road quickly. Come race me when I get my motor in. Dick.

Dont be just pointing the fingers at me

Hey crxlvr, if u put ur car into first gear, than its the same thing, u dont leave it in neutral and than put it into gear, all u people are so dumb, get some driving skill and learn how to drive stick u bunch of tits!!


There, thats what im sayin geeks

maybe you should smoke one.....

I agree, really do need to smoke one, that I will 100% agree with you on that

There, thats what im sayin geeks
http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/58570newbie.jpg

Is that a pic of ur ugly redneck brother?

srv boy, why are trying to start fights on this site? all the info you have posted for people is wrong, you dont know what you are talking about.

im not trying to fight with anyone, you started talking smack, and then i asked u a simple question in which you can't answer because u dont know very much.

Then you stupid americans go and post stupid crap like that??? whats up with you rednecks??

Well ok now I am pissed off

Warning: Mild Language


Here is a lesson u fucking newbie fuck. Learn some manners and respect and come back. :twak: :chair: :flipa: :banhim:

Get this I offered a 2 grand bet against my car and his prelude and he declined. Someone should ban this noob ricer wannabe.

Get this I accepted but this fag is too chicken shit to race me because he knows his autotragic crap civic wont touch my h22a vtec lude, lol thats so pathedic!!! lmao

By the way did i mention u need a girlfriend or something u have way too much time on ur hands, prolly playing with ur hands if u get my drift!

you know what? I think i speak for a lot of us when i say STFU asshole noob! You think your such hot shit... haha your a dumbass. All you do is talk shit. Grow up and make some decent posts without your usual shit.


By the way your vtec lude isn't the greatest car of them all, it really isn't as fast as you make it out to be, unless of course you have mods that you haven't mentioned. but anyway stock you should only run a 15.0-15.1 1/4.

He told me he doesn't want to me in P.A. I live in N.C. so I think P.A. is fair enough. He declined my offer THREE times. Someone should ban him and lock this thread. Sorry srvBOY, but my ZC with just a 70 shot will take you out. I got a turbo being put in while I'm outta town. I'll have pics for you guys when I get home. :) (Next Week sometime)

This fag is too scared to come to canada and break his virginity and get his ass kicked by my 15 psi racing clutch vtec prelude, he's a big pussie and he is wasting my time. get a life u chickenshit frozen faggot.

MT is fun get manual. i learned driving on an AT and that shit was just too boring. and im guessin you dont want to get tired of your car. but if you really plan to get a very VERY large amount of torque, then u'll need slicks if you want to race, but since you said u just want daily driving it is really up to you. and ignore both these guys. i think its interesting on how they both are arguing. they should both go run at the track then compare times. yeah i admit i do look down on drivers that drive automatic, but the reason for that is cuz with manual you're more sensitive to your car. And to be a great driver you have to be one with your car. Automatic youre stomping on the pedals as if you're just pushing a button on your car that makes it go (like a video game) but with manual you really get the feel, you understand the throttle, have full control on the rpms, and really know your motor and modifications. well thats just how i look at it cuz im really connected to my car. as are all stick drivers.

I think frozen faggot is gay, he asshole is ripped open lmao lol !!!