Results of a little torque convert research

I know enough about this to be dangerous. It appears that stall and slip are two different things (I kind of have a hard time understanding this). There are efficient and inefficient ways to to make a higher stall convertor. It appears that the larger diameter the convertor the more inefficient they have to make it to get the stall. The convertor is a viscus coupler. Its trying to transfer power though a non solid connection. The fins of one side of the convertor are acting on the tranny fluid and that fluid then tries to "grab"/ force the other fins to move. Now it pretty much is easy to see that fin angles are going to affect how hard the one side pushes on the fluid and also how easily the fluid can transfer the power to the other set. Now from that you can see that there are efficient and inefficient fin angles. Now you got to start addressing the size of the convertor and the fins. Basically since where not solidly transfering the power we are going through (for lack of better words) some kind of squishy / flexing / twisting / slipping kind of deal. Well if your trying to pass lets say 500 hp through this deal it only makes since that a larger one will do a better job because its physically bigger and can handle the power better. Maybe like tires in mud. Tires with small tread blocks can grab mud but it cant grab enough of it to transfer much power. Now you take a nice set of big old mudder tires with the bigger tread block, its going to be grabbing much more mud and therefore do a much better job of transfering the power. This is where the big convertors down fall comes. It grabs to good so you got to put crappy angles on the fins to get the stall speed up. This same crappy fin angles makes the convertor less efficient and makes it slip. This slipping is a total waste of power. Its converted to heat which takes out your tranny, and slows your car down. Yes it allowed you to build boost quicker but then bit you in the ass the whole rest of the track. Now your smaller diameter convertor can use better fin angles more more efficient power x-fer, but they will still stall because like the smaller tires they can't grab enough. This is the better of the two senerios. You can start running into problems if the convertor is too small because even with good fin angles it just its just too small to try to x-fer that much power through it........

I have too much time on my hands

Andy

I know enough about this to be dangerous. It appears that stall and slip are two different things (I kind of have a hard time understanding this). There are efficient and inefficient ways to to make a higher stall convertor. It appears that the larger diameter the convertor the more inefficient they have to make it to get the stall. The convertor is a viscus coupler. Its trying to transfer power though a non solid connection. The fins of one side of the convertor are acting on the tranny fluid and that fluid then tries to "grab"/ force the other fins to move. Now it pretty much is easy to see that fin angles are going to affect how hard the one side pushes on the fluid and also how easily the fluid can transfer the power to the other set. Now from that you can see that there are efficient and inefficient fin angles. Now you got to start addressing the size of the convertor and the fins. Basically since where not solidly transfering the power we are going through (for lack of better words) some kind of squishy / flexing / twisting / slipping kind of deal. Well if your trying to pass lets say 500 hp through this deal it only makes since that a larger one will do a better job because its physically bigger and can handle the power better. Maybe like tires in mud. Tires with small tread blocks can grab mud but it cant grab enough of it to transfer much power. Now you take a nice set of big old mudder tires with the bigger tread block, its going to be grabbing much more mud and therefore do a much better job of transfering the power. This is where the big convertors down fall comes. It grabs to good so you got to put crappy angles on the fins to get the stall speed up. This same crappy fin angles makes the convertor less efficient and makes it slip. This slipping is a total waste of power. Its converted to heat which takes out your tranny, and slows your car down. Yes it allowed you to build boost quicker but then bit you in the ass the whole rest of the track. Now your smaller diameter convertor can use better fin angles more more efficient power x-fer, but they will still stall because like the smaller tires they can't grab enough. This is the better of the two senerios. You can start running into problems if the convertor is too small because even with good fin angles it just its just too small to try to x-fer that much power through it........

I have too much time on my hands

Andy

Good read, Andy.

But, damn that was a long paragragh :p

Wow I'm way too drunk to read that..... maybe when I sober up I'll go find that good article on torque converters i read but for now.... Just get me a manaul much easier to understand LoL

Wow I'm way too drunk to read that..... maybe when I sober up I'll go find that good article on torque converters i read but for now.... Just get me a manaul much easier to understand LoL

If you keep posting GTStang, I am going to have to give you a TWI(Typing While Intoxicated) :)

good info. now lemme run an idea buy you guys. what if you modified a hydromatic tranny to accecpt a clutch. then you could have as much stall as you wanted and a direct drive while shifting. if you only use the clutch to start out, wouldnt you maximize energy transfer. and imagine when the tranny shifts from first to second. i bet that would tear some compoents up though. i dunno just a thought.

^ I dont think you understand what you just wrote. So you are saying that you would want to put a clutch in place of the converter? Well ther is no shaft or throw out bearing that would work here. Also y not just put a standard tranny in? Would save alot of time rather than figure out how to make a clutch fit into an automatic. LOL

PS An automatic tranny has many clutches, there just in packs inside the tranny.

good info. now lemme run an idea buy you guys. what if you modified a hydromatic tranny to accecpt a clutch. then you could have as much stall as you wanted and a direct drive while shifting. if you only use the clutch to start out, wouldnt you maximize energy transfer. and imagine when the tranny shifts from first to second. i bet that would tear some compoents up though. i dunno just a thought.

What???????????? Hydromatic???????????? Clutch???????????

Is there something I am not getting?

hehe your gettin me all wrong. i know exactly what im talkin about. when i said modified, i meant to "modify"!!! you see if you only used the clutch to get the car rolling then used a hydromatic with a manual valve body. it would essentialy do the same thing as a lock up converter. after you got started of course. and it would be a lot harsher shift. it wouldnt be hard to make some sort of coupler shaft to slide over one end and spline into the flywheel. you laugh now but just you wait. "A breakthrough wouldn't be a breakthrough if at some point someone said it couldnt be done"

Now, I see what your getting at. :grinno: :iceslolan :smokin: :biggrin:

If you keep posting GTStang, I am going to have to give you a TWI(Typing While Intoxicated) :)
I've been guilty of that a few times, just ask GTStang about our convo friday night. LOL

Drinkin beer and talkin cars, only thing left out would be the women.

Good read, Andy.

But, damn that was a long paragragh :p


I'm sorry I was bored yesterday. It was Valint..... er Single Awareness day. So I did that and went out to the grage and drank beer/Worked on car with my other single buddies. After about 30min of that, it turned into just drinkin beer :icon16:

So I did that and went out to the grage and drank beer/Worked on car with my other single buddies. After about 30min of that, it turned into just drinkin beer :icon16:

Been there plenty of times. As good of a combo as beer and wrenches sound, for some reason it never really works out well. :evillol:

good info. now lemme run an idea buy you guys. what if you modified a hydromatic tranny to accecpt a clutch. then you could have as much stall as you wanted and a direct drive while shifting. if you only use the clutch to start out, wouldnt you maximize energy transfer. and imagine when the tranny shifts from first to second. i bet that would tear some compoents up though. i dunno just a thought.


And I was the drunk one... This really don't make much sense.... at that point just goto a direct drive unit like top fuel drag and funny cars use to shifting at all. Very cool shit!

Single awarness day..... lol I'm not sure if I single or not but I batted 2-2 on the Vday day/night doubleheader so I'm pretty good with it this year.