Thinking about leaving the Civic scene...

Yeah there's really not much I can do....I've come to the realization that Civic's are slow economy cars...unless I had 10 grand to throw down on an Si...which isn't worth it...

I'm seriously thinking about selling my Civic and going with an old school (90-93) teg. I believe they come with a B18A1 and I could throw on a B16 head...right?

Would a... say.. 91 Integra with a B16 head take a 93 Civic Ex with I/IM/H/E?

One of my friends just bought a 91 teg bone stock except a stage2 clutch...I drove it and it was like twice as powerful as my fuel-saving machine....

That's is what sparked my decision...should I go thru with it?

if you want. If I were you I'd rather save the money I spend on I/IM/H/E and put it towards a turbo kit for your D16. You'd be damn close to being able to afford the Greddy kit for the D-series and if you save some extra you could pick up the Edelbrock kit, which is an outstanding turbo kit.

hmm... 'nuff said

If your tired of not fast cars then well, youll have to look into something thats a honda thats not a 4 banger. Excluding the s2000. Depends what "fast" is for you.

If its a mid 15 second car, theres the SI 99
If its a high 14 car theres the ITR
If its a low 14 car theres the s2000
if its a mid 13s car theres the NSX
If its a high 12s car theres the NSX type S...hahah lol

plus there is much more complicated things then just throwing a b16 head on plus i dont trust the reliablity of ls/vtec but thats just me and ls/vtec is expensive when it comes to machining i would just get greddy or edelbrock turbo kit for the d16 just my .02 cents

get a Z, they rule all

uh yah, there is a bit of price gap there

Didn't you just recently get into the Civic scene?

I think the "power" that your feeling with your buddies integra would be torque from the DOHC.
My d16z6 stomps fucking mudholes in my buddies b18a1, and a coulpe of other buddies b18a1's.

You should go through with it if that's what you want to do.

get a Z, they rule all

Ehh... no. If the Z has a 350 in front of it. Ehh... then they definately don't rule all. If it has a 300 and then a X after then maybe.

The 350Z's in my opinion are not the greatest cars for a lower to mid experienced driver. I've seen a 96' civic with a GSR swap beat a 350z by about 1/2 a car. I've also heard stories from around my area about the same sorta thing happening, so I dunno. I would own one if someone gave it to me, but otherwise I wouldn't have one.

240 > 350... just because :)

@MexSiR:
-I'd love to have all of those cars...but I dont have the cash for those...
Personally..I think the Si is overpriced.

I also thought about just fixing up my Civic but I don't wanna turbo my engine without putting in some money to rebuild it first...dunno if the ole d16 can handle a turbo.

Anyway, thanks for the input...I'll keep my eyes and mind open...

how many miles are on your engine? If you've kept up with maintenace and kept the engine in good running condition, I wouldn't worry too much. These kits aren't designed to give you a lot horsepower, just a nice increase from stock. The Edelbrock kit is rated at 175 whp, the Greddy kit I don't know about, but you can bet that it's less than that.

My car has about 150,100 miles on it...theres also some small problems with it (idle problems, shitty starter, shitty battery, bad throwout bearing) but all that could be fixed pretty easily...

I've made up my mind though...I'm gonna go with a 90-93 Integra...my mom (arent moms great) is buying me an intake, intake manifold, header, and catback exhaust for it for a school project...She was gonna buy it for my Civic but I told her to hold off until I figure out if I wanted to sell it or not.

So yeah, a teg with I/IM/H/E and a B16 head should be fast enough for me...

I just don't think Civics are meant to be sports cars..unless I get a DOHC. MORE POWER!

Thanks guys. (Now I just gotta find a good teg under $4000)

Good luck man...but why dont you just swap ?
"...my mom (arent moms great)..."
I totally agree

Thanks man...I would get a swap but I don't have the cash for one...the teg I get will prolly only be $2000-$3000...so after I sell my Civic I'll have enough for a B16 head...

If I just get a swap I'll have to scrounge up like $3000 or start saving..but I'm too impatient! XD

BTW..ur car is SICCCKKK

Have fun finding a cheap B16 head, then finding a "cheap" mechanic to put the head on.

Yeah it might be kinda hard to find the head...but I don't need to find a mechanic...

Doesn't matter...a stock Integra DOHC would roast my crappy lil Civic

You gonna do it yourself? I think not. At least not with some of the questions that you've asked on here.

About the stock integra DOHC (find a stock SOHC integra for me, please) beating the "crappy lil civic... I think your wrong! My civic beats a couple of my buddies' not stock "DOHC integra's". Maybe I have the only civic that can do that. I must be fast!

Anyway, go get your integra and be happy with it.

plus i dont trust the reliablity of ls/vtec but thats just me and ls/vtec is expensive when it comes to machining .
You don't know alot about LSvtecs do you? Just some bullshit you heard on superhonda.com huh?

I think the "power" that your feeling with your buddies integra would be torque from the DOHC.
DOHC does NOT mean it has torque, look at hte B16A.

@95civiccx:
-No I'm not going to do it myself....what I meant was I have someone thats gonna do it..

I never said there was a SOHC teg....I said 'Integra DOHC' putting emphasis that teg's are DOHC and my civic is a SOHC...you don't have to be such an ass...

and i will have fun with my teg...and after the ls/vtec conversion id smoke ur ass any day mwa ha ha

Kinked210 don't talk shit to other people man, especially when you clearly know very little about motors other than what you've read. Ever since you've been here you've been practically busting juice all over your keyboard about getting a civic and doing and engine swap and doing up your motor. And now you want to sell your car for something older that you're going to most likely have to put a lot more $ into it to fix it up? Do you really think that it's that expensive to work with what you've got now? Slap a damn greddy turbo kit on that sohc $2000 or less; depending on what parts you need other than the turbo kit. But go buy your teg and come on here and whine a little more when you realize you don't want the teg anymore or you blow your motor up when you do a ls/vtec swap and don't know how to maintain it.

DOHC does NOT mean it has torque, look at the B16A.

I would have to say that yes, DOHC does mean more torque when comparing it to a SOHC motor. Thanks for the input though.:slap:


I never said there was a SOHC teg....I said 'Integra DOHC' putting emphasis that teg's are DOHC and my civic is a SOHC...you don't have to be such an ass...

after the ls/vtec conversion id smoke ur ass any day mwa ha ha

Why put emphasis on DOHC integra when there isn't a SOHC version?...Just me.

Put more emphasis on the AFTER the ls/vtec conversion.....If your gonna talk shit about that.....:thumbsup:

I would have to say that yes, DOHC does mean more torque when comparing it to a SOHC motor. Thanks for the input though.:slap:

You're a fucktard and know jackshit :) Thanks for your input. Just because a motor is DOHC DOES NOT mean it has more torque, and few of those that do are not so far behind that it is going to makes difference. The difference is the Hp that a DOHC is capable of. Have a look at some motor specs and you'll notice that in similar displacement ( the real reason for torque) motors, the torque is very close, while the Hp on the DOHC's is much larger.

For instance the B16A and the D16Z6

B16A 160hp and 111 lbs-ft
D16Z6 125hp and 106 lbs-ft

And this pattern pretty much repeats it self down the line, so if you're done trying to sound like you know what you're talking about, could you go bash your head in a door?

Where did a b16 get mentioned in the convo, other than where you came in "fucktard". The DOHC that we were speaking of would be the b18a1 as a matter of fact "fucktard". So, don't jump into a convo that you don't know about. Thanks "fucktard". Anyway, would you like to post the stats on the torque of the b18a1 and show me that it doesn't have more than the d16z6 or any other d16 for that matter. If you could do that for me and then shut the fuck up, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
FUCKTARD

Where did a b16 get mentioned in the convo, other than where you came in "fucktard". The DOHC that we were speaking of would be the b18a1 as a matter of fact "fucktard". So, don't jump into a convo that you don't know about. Thanks "fucktard". Anyway, would you like to post the stats on the torque of the b18a1 and show me that it doesn't have more than the d16z6 or any other d16 for that matter. If you could do that for me and then shut the fuck up, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
FUCKTARD
Hahahaha, look mommy, the little faggot got his feelings hurt because he is a dumbass, and doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about, hahahahahahahahahahahahaha....breath.....hahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahaha

You are a dumbass, and I was showing you that you are wrong, sorry you can't take critisizm.

Displacement, affects torque dipshit, there is no way around it, not DOHC, displacement, loser.

Here let me illustrate again, so your feeble mind can grasp it...

B18A1 DOHC 121 lbs-ft 140hp
F22B1 SOHC 147 lbs-ft 145hp

Are you getting this, is it sinking into your thick skull yet, or should I go on?

Again, stupid fuck. One motor that was being talked about compared to yet another motor that wasn't fucking brought up until you brought it up.

Torque Differences in the

d16z6
b18a1

Those are the ones you need to list, otherwise just shut the fuck up.

Z6 106 lbs-ft 125hp
A1 140 lbs-ft 140hp

1.8 to 1.6, hmmmm.. more displacement = more torque?, no way?

Here's some more for you..

D16A3 1590 118 hp 103 lbs-ft DOHC
D16A6 1590 108hp 100lbs-ft SOHC

Amazing huh, same displacement, yet for some reason they have almost the same torque, but what? The DOHC makes more horsies, oh no, mister Bill!!!!!!!!!!!

Is that not enough for you? Have a gander at this...

D16A8/9 1595 137hp 108 lbs-ft dohc
D16Y5 1590 115hp 104 lbs-ft sohc

Wow, look at those torque numbers, hmmm... get what I am saying.

Sorry if I am being a dick, but bench tuners are annoying, and spread a bunch of bullshit that gets real fucking old after a while.

And there is a lot more to power output than DOHC, or torque, compression, bore and stroke, cam and ignition timing, fuel mapping intake exhaust manifold, and port design, vlave size, and on, and on, and on....

I am so sick of people coming in here and talking like know crap when they don't know sh*t...First of all

Why put emphasis on DOHC integra when there isn't a SOHC version?...Just me.

The 1986-1989 Acura Integra came with a SOHC D-series motor. THERE IS A STOCK SOHC INTEGRA!!! The 1986-1987 USDM Integras came with a D16A1, the 1988-1989 Intgeras came with a D16A3. As I said, the 1986-1989 Integras' were SOHC, so sqaush the sh*t.

I am so sick of the ignorance of some people on here, it's ridiculous. Don't come in here and start crap when you don't know what you are talking about.

You asked WHY jcrx was throwing around other engine codes? The SAME REASON I mentioned the codes of the 1986-1989 Integra...THEY ARE RELAVANT TO THE DISSCUSSION AT HAND!!!! The point he was making is this. There is no replacement for displacement. Greater displacment = greater torque. That's why the 1.8 liter motors have MORE DISPLACEMENT than the 1.6 liter motors. Airflow does make a difference to a certain extent, there are other numbers too, but that's small numbers there. The big determaining factor in a stock motor's torque is Displacement. That's the point he's making. Where do you think the age old saying "there is no replacement for displacement comes from."? How do you think FI works when creating more HP and Torque? Same thing... B18B1 running at 14.7psi is forcing TWICE as much air into each cylinder, effectivly meaning the 1.8 liter motor is receiving the same airflow as a motor twice the size, 3.6 liter motor, would n/a. You are effectivly increasing the displacement of the motor, in terms of airflow, with FI...the result...more power and torque. This is how it works, it's the laws of physics. Displacement creates torque. This holds true if it's sohc, dohc...it doesn't matter....the reason for the increased power and torque with a FI motor is displacment (in terms of airflow), the same reason an H22 motor has more torque than a B18 motor, which will have greater torque than a B16 motor....or a D16 motor..etc.

Ok..whats with all you people saying I used to whine about getting a Civic? I had a Civic before I even joined this forum!

And thank you to eckoman and jcrx for shutting him up...

Anyway..now that we have established that DOHC is more powerful than a SOHC....is there anything else I should know before I decide to sell the ole Civic?

Also..I was wondering what's so great about the LS block? And is a Integra GS/VTEC conversion possible?

Thanks

Ok..whats with all you people saying I used to whine about getting a Civic? I had a Civic before I even joined this forum!

And thank you to eckoman and jcrx for shutting him up...

Anyway..now that we have established that DOHC is more powerful than a SOHC....is there anything else I should know before I decide to sell the ole Civic?

Also..I was wondering what's so great about the LS block? And is a Integra GS/VTEC conversion possible?

Thanks

You're very welcome. I hate it when start talking crap when they have no clue what they are saying.

The Integra RS, GS, and LS all have the same motor (B18A1 90-93, B18B1 94-01). The 92-93 B18A1 had a greater output than the 90-91. The 90-91 was 130hp@6000rpm & 121lb-ft of torque@5000. The 92-93 had an output of 140HP@6200rpm & 121lb-ft of torque@5200rpm. The B18B1 (94-01) has the highest output, 142HP@6300rpm & 127lb-ft of torque@5200rpm. You can do what is commenly called an "LS/Vtec" conversion with any of these.

Also, a civic is lighter than an integra, and weight plays a roll in speed also. This is why the car accelerates slower with 3 people in the car versus just the driver. This is known as the power/weight ratio. Since the Civic is lighter than an Integra, swapping in the LS motor into a civic gives you the same power output, but it a much lighter chassis. This results in a little bit quicker car than it would be in the Integra.

The LS block is great because it is considered by many to be the strongest b-series block. It has the lowest compression, which is good for forced induction. The compression ratio (c/r) is 9.2:1, which is ideal for a turbocharged application. The gsr's 10.0:1 c/r is considered too high. You really shouldn't boost a gsr much above 8psi (especially on pump gas). The B16A has an even higher c/r. The reason the LS/Vtec started to be done was people got the little extra displacement of the LS and the lower c/r, but where able to have vtec power as well. It was like the motor they always wanted that Honda never made. If you make an LS/Vtec, don't rev it much past 7K, as the LS block wasn't designed to go above that. Also, the LS has the most displacement of any B-series motor (1834cc, vs 90-93 gsr 1678cc, 94-01 gsr & type-r 1797cc, & B16A/B16B 1595cc).

The last thing about the LS block is up for debate...higher lift cams (high duration) tend to not jive well at high rpm's with turbos. The Vtec lobe on the cam is a high lift lobe. This can make vtec not ideal for FI under some circumstances. Of course, a car CAN be turbocharged with vtec, we all know this. But it takes a higher degree of tuning to optimize it. Basically, at a higher rpm,if the tuning isn' right...it can strave the turbo of air. Again, a lot has to do with tuning. As I mentioned, there is an ongoing debate about this.

Oh yea, I forget, the LS has a broader torque curve than the otehr b-series motors. It has the lowest peak torque output of any of the b-series. The boarder torque curve results in a more torquey motor and more on the low end of things. If you want my 2 cents, I would personally keep the civic and swap in a B18B1, but that's me. You'll get the power you want in a lighter package than the integra. It's the best of both worlds, in a sense. I am glad to see, however, you arn't swapping just to "be cool." It's nice to see you are attemping to think this through to some degree. I hope this cleared up some things.

Yeah dude that cleared alot up..thanks alot...

The reason I don't swap in the engine into the Civic i have now is because I have like no money to do that...

I'm gonna buy the teg with the money I get from selling the civic...

Also..my mom just told me she might buy my civic from me because her big truck only gets 14 mpg and she wants a car with good gas mileage to drive to work...so hey maybe I can have the best of both worlds eh?

Anyway, thanks again...

Yeah dude that cleared alot up..thanks alot...

The reason I don't swap in the engine into the Civic i have now is because I have like no money to do that...

I'm gonna buy the teg with the money I get from selling the civic...

Also..my mom just told me she might buy my civic from me because her big truck only gets 14 mpg and she wants a car with good gas mileage to drive to work...so hey maybe I can have the best of both worlds eh?

Anyway, thanks again...

I'm glad I could help you out, just make sure to think the whole situation through throughly. Remember, you can't un-sell the car once...once it's sold, it's their to do as they please. good luck with whatever you decide to do.

I was fucking around............. I wasn't trying to get into any kind of specifics.....Not until I get out of UTI anyway. I way just saying that DOHC isn't always faster and I seem to feel more from some DOHC even though it's not any faster(being b18a1 and d16z6). I wasn't trying to compare every single DOHC to SOHC motor. Just the b18a1 and d16z6 or y8 even. The torque difference is there and really that's all i was saying because there isn't a big power difference in the two. I'll shut up now:sorry:I pissed everyone and there fucking mother off talking...I just got bored and figured that we needed a little drama around here.

I was fucking around............. I wasn't trying to get into any kind of specifics.....Not until I get out of UTI anyway. I way just saying that DOHC isn't always faster and I seem to feel more from some DOHC even though it's not any faster(being b18a1 and d16z6). I wasn't trying to compare every single DOHC to SOHC motor. Just the b18a1 and d16z6 or y8 even. The torque difference is there and really that's all i was saying because there isn't a big power difference in the two. I'll shut up now:sorry:I pissed everyone and there fucking mother off talking...I just got bored and figured that we needed a little drama around here.

There is a noticable power difference between the 2. For one, the LS makes 142HP@6300rpm and 127lb-ft of torque@5200rpm, the D16Z6 makes about 127hp &106 lb-ft of torque. Torque is what will give you accleration off the line, it's what gets you up to speed. The difference in torque is very noticable. A power difference of 15HP and 20lb-ft of torque is noticable. Since HP = Torque x rpm/5252, I'd say that's a pretty important difference there on the low end. It's not like a race car difference, but it's noticable none the less, espeically on a hill or with a second person in the car, where the added torque definatly helps out.

Thank you, that's what I was saying.....

That LS would be out of the 94 and up right??? Because I think the 90-93 has 140, not that it matters........

I'm finished here.

I was fucking around............. I wasn't trying to get into any kind of specifics.....Not until I get out of UTI anyway. I way just saying that DOHC isn't always faster and I seem to feel more from some DOHC even though it's not any faster(being b18a1 and d16z6). I wasn't trying to compare every single DOHC to SOHC motor. Just the b18a1 and d16z6 or y8 even. The torque difference is there and really that's all i was saying because there isn't a big power difference in the two. I'll shut up now:sorry:I pissed everyone and there fucking mother off talking...I just got bored and figured that we needed a little drama around here.
We don't need any drama on these boards, if that's what you are about, just leave.

Ok, I will. Nice posting while I did peeps..........I'm out.

We don't need any drama on these boards, if that's what you are about, just leave.

Good lookin out!!! :bigthumb: